flavio340
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US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:41 pm

Any one know or have any rumors on potential transatlantic routes for 2008 for USAirways?

All I have heard is possible 757 routes EDI, OLS, HEL, New Castle.
For widebodies VIE, SVO, PRG.

I want to make a point that this is just crew rumors with nothing to support it, however they did say there should be announcement sometime in the next month or two.

Thanks for the info.
 
Humberside
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:58 pm

Quoting Flavio340 (Thread starter):
All I have heard is possible 757 routes EDI, OLS, HEL, New Castle.

EDI - Not with a GLA service as well
NCL - no way from PHL. Only US service that would work would be from Orlando and New York
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John
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:04 pm

I wouldn't expect any NEW international destinations added to the US Airways network until 2009, when the A330-200s and A340s start arriving.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:17 pm

Quoting Flavio340 (Thread starter):
For widebodies VIE, SVO, PRG.

I would think both WAW and VIE would be higher priorities than PRG, as both are Star hubs. With OS now flying to both IAD and ORD, VIE seems sort of redundant, but without an easy way to connect to WAW from the east coast, WAW might do really well for them. There's not a huge local market, but the feed at both ends might compensate.
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gkirk
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 1):
NCL - no way from PHL. Only US service that would work would be from Orlando and New York

Would be possible with heavy marketing ala Emirates style. AA failed because their marketting sucked.
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USAirALB
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:49 pm

id love to see CLT-CDG
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343
 
Cubsrule
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:36 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 5):
id love to see CLT-CDG

US barely makes CLT-LGW work... CLT-CDG is a possible 332 route, but will certainly not see service until 332s and/or 350s arrive.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
travisnc
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:45 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
US barely makes CLT-LGW work... CLT-CDG is a possible 332 route, but will certainly not see service until 332s and/or 350s arrive.

What do you mean barely makes CLT-LGW work? US carries more passengers on that route than DL carries on CVG-LGW, NW carries on MSP-LGW, US carries on PHL-LGW, AA carries on RDU-LGW, and BA carries on TPA-LGW, BWI-LHR, or DTW-LHR. I mean I don't know that it's especially profitable, but if it wasn't I'm sure they wouldn't be flying it. Source: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...tl_Air_Pax_Route_Analysis_2006.pdf

[Edited 2007-10-06 13:46:10]
 
MMEPHX
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:52 am

With the fleet stretched to the limit, I doubt we'll see any new destinations, unless US cancels some existing destinations. I think Parker said something recently about concentrating on fixing the existing problems before expanding. (I can't find a link - anyone?) He was talking about PHL of course but if fleet availability is the problem then I doubt any expansion from CLT either. There again, this is the airline business and good common sense thinking doesn't always prevail....
 
flyiguy
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:24 am

If US were to fly to HEL they they would be the only airline to serve both HVN and HEL ....LOL
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Cubsrule
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:30 pm

Quoting TravisNC (Reply 7):

What do you mean barely makes CLT-LGW work?

Yields are horrendous. They fill the planes with sales. They could fill CLT-CDG too, but it would take lots of $400 fare sales.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
travisnc
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:53 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
Yields are horrendous. They fill the planes with sales. They could fill CLT-CDG too, but it would take lots of $400 fare sales.

How do you know what the yields are? No one outside the US Airways accounting department really knows. I do agree that CLT-CDG would be questionable though. CLT-CDG and PIT-CDG didn't do that well the first time. If there was an alliance hub on the other end like AF-DL on the CVG-CDG flight then it might work, but that's not the case.
 
SiouxATC
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:11 pm

Quoting John (Reply 2):
I wouldn't expect any NEW international destinations added to the US Airways network until 2009, when the A330-200s and A340s start arriving.

I would have to agree. Then we will probably see PHX-LGW and/or PHX-FRA at most. I'm not sure there are many other markets that US could enter in Europe with their current fleet. However like I stated above when more a/c come online I could maybe see PHL-WAW, VIE, PRG, DUS, TXL, HEL.
 
whappeh
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:53 pm

Would PHL-HEL even be marketable? Finland-US is only served by Finnair, iirc. Could be a good market to break into.
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silentbob
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:08 pm

Quoting MMEPHX (Reply 8):
With the fleet stretched to the limit, I doubt we'll see any new destinations, unless US cancels some existing destinations. I think Parker said something recently about concentrating on fixing the existing problems before expanding. (I can't find a link - anyone?) He was talking about PHL of course but if fleet availability is the problem then I doubt any expansion from CLT either. There again, this is the airline business and good common sense thinking doesn't always prevail....

Someone here mentioned that US was pulling 757s off of the Caribbean routes next summer and sending them across the pond. That would allow US to add European destinations without major changes.
 
MSYPI7185
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:12 pm

I worked the CLT-LGW flight for 8 years. That flight has always made money! Too many people look at the fares being charged and then make an assumption on the yeilds. During the slow months when the flight was only half full the flight made money. The freight carried on these flights more than pays for all expenses for the flight. The pax revenue is, as we used to say, all gravy. Also when you see a $400.00 fare that does not mean ALL the tickets are $400.00. I would suggest that if it were not for freight many TATL would probably operate only seasonally or disappear all together. I realize that the carriers we are talking about are in business to transport passengers and there has to be sufficient pax demand to even consider starting service, but when it comes to profiability total revenue is taken into account.  Smile
 
Cubsrule
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:28 pm

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 15):
The freight carried on these flights more than pays for all expenses for the flight. The pax revenue is, as we used to say, all gravy.

...which is precisely why CLT-CDG would fail. There's only so much cargo to be carried between Charlotte and Europe, and additional flights cannibalize cargo traffic just like they cannibalize passenger traffic. The relative scarcity of direct flights to Europe is what permits the flight to make money on cargo. DFW-SCL is another good example of this phenomenon. It's simple supply and demand. Less supply= higher prices.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
by738
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:34 pm

I have heard GLA did much better this year, and will be back for 2008. The Envoy seats must have gone down well this year.
 
MSYPI7185
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:27 pm

quote=Cubsrule,reply=16]...which is precisely why CLT-CDG would fail. There's only so much cargo to be carried between Charlotte and Europe, and additional flights cannibalize cargo traffic just like they cannibalize passenger traffic. The relative scarcity of direct flights to Europe is what permits the flight to make money on cargo.[/quote]


Well I cannot speak specifically on CLT-CDG as I do not know the specifics on that particular route. After 9/11 that route was dropped and with the bankruptcy and the subsequent merger with America West the route was never restarted. US has always said they wanted to eventually bring this route back. IIRC this route was still rather new and was still under development when 9/11 happened.

CLT-FRA was the same as CLT-LGW as far as cargo is concerned. LGW and FRA had freight backlogged for as much as 7 - 10 days most of the time and a significant amount of freight was trucked from ATL to CLT because believe it or not insufficient lift in ATL (shorter delay in shipping). And at that time both US and LH were operating into FRA, as well as, US to LGW & CDG. Is this still true today I am not sure, but I know about a year ago KLM and LH were still trucking freight from ATL to CLT. Also not all freight originates at the hub just like not all pax originate at the hub. CLT is and always has been a weak O&D hub as compared to its peers. There are many european manufacturing companies in the CLT area. CLT being a large banking center recently is helping the O&D out of CLT, but it will never be like PHL, LAX, ORD, JFK, etc..

I was specifically disputing the false claim that the yields on CLT- LGW were "horrendous".
If yeilds are horrendous, then why did they upgrade from a 762ER to A333 even with BA operating a 772 to LGW or did I miss something and BA pulled out of CLT recently?

CLT-CDG I believe would be successful and there is talk of bringing this route back. The hold up has been lack of aircraft (big surprise here) and I would highly suspect that there are other routes that are more profitable, therefore CLT-CDG will have to wait. My gut tells me CLT-CDG will return before any international service from PHX begins, but they need airplanes first.

Just my 2 cents
 
vega
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:44 pm

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 18):
was specifically disputing the false claim that the yields on CLT- LGW were "horrendous".
If yeilds are horrendous, then why did they upgrade from a 762ER to A333 even with BA operating a 772 to LGW or did I miss something and BA pulled out of CLT recently?

Actually BA stopped CLT services in November of 2002 ( 5 years ago) using the rationale (as I interpret) that the route could not be justified in the current economic climate.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
steeler83
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:42 am

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 12):
However like I stated above when more a/c come online I could maybe see PHL-WAW, VIE, PRG, DUS, TXL, HEL.

I could see PHL-WAW/VIE as well regarding the LOT Polish Airlines and Austrian hubs at respective airports...
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mah584jr
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:18 pm

Quoting MMEPHX (Reply 8):
With the fleet stretched to the limit, I doubt we'll see any new destinations

Not only is the fleet stretched to the limit, but so is the gate space in PHL's Terminal A. Delta is moving in there this fall which will further reduce gate space available next summer. They will probably have to start using remote stands for some planes next summer. I don't see US adding any flights next summer from PHL. I have no clue what will happen at CLT, but I doubt we'll see additional Tatl flight from there.
 
phlwok
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:38 pm

Barring any new widebody leases, I think the only way they might be able to increase the TATL fleet size would be to add winglets to more 757's and make any other needed ETOPS mods. Anyone know if this is even a possibility?

As to Terminal A, expect some bussing/mobile lounges next summer. PHL also just approved adding 3 more gates to A-West, but that'll take a few years.
 
flavio340
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RE: US Airways 08 Talt Routes?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:13 pm

Supposedly to free up some widebodies next year US will add multi 757 flights, except for where cargo is needed. US is also looking at running widebody flights on certain days and 757 on others. This would at most free up two widebodies for one new distant destination. The other two would be only 757 routes, also there is a possibility of bringing back some other destinations. The only one I know was BOS-FRA, but I know there was more could others elaborate?

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