Airliners.net

Last night I came into Perth with Emirates. Due to tail wind and such, our flight time had been cut down around 40-50 minutes. However, the captain told us the Perth Airport wasn't capable of taking in our flight more than 15 minutes early, so we had a non-mechanical, non-passenger-missing, non-cargo delay of 25 minutes!

My question is, does Perth have so many problems regarding the international airport? I know Qantas and Singapore Airlines have their widebodies land just before Emirates. Also, how often do these type of delays happen? I have never heard of one such as this before.

P.S. - it was on EK 424 and a great trip (with a welcome equiptment change from a 772 to a 77W)

-CXfirst

There could be various reason for that.

One could be Outbound traffic. Since your EK flight was so early the controllers maybe wanted to get rid of the outbound flights first. No stands/gates available is a possible reason as well. There are various reasons for leaving the ahead of schedule flights in the air. Another one that comes to mind is that probably there were some restrictions at the airport due to ground movements. In such cases a 77W is better in the air than blocking taxiways or the ground controllers had an specific gate for the 77W which was not available. But I do not know if PER has such restrictions.

Quoting CXfirst (Thread starter): Also, how often do these type of delays happen? I have never heard of one such as this before.

These happen from time to time. It did happen to me at GRU this year because of the immigration officer strike. They eventually had to land us since we were 12hours already in the air. It took us another 50min after landing to get an open gate.  

Perth has 5 gates (at the international terminal), and only 2 were used that evening SQ and QF, EK uses gate 2 while SQ and QF used gates 5 and 3. The only reason I can think off that PER could not handle all these flights is in customs and immigration. However, at 16:00 around that time, there are upto 4 widebodies at PER at a time...

I would imagine that DXB has more gate problems than PER (with the delayed EK terminal and huge growth of Dubai), and I found it very surprising that we stayed there and extra 25 minutes.

-CXfirst

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 2): Perth has 5 gates (at the international terminal), and only 2 were used that evening SQ and QF, EK uses gate 2 while SQ and QF used gates 5 and 3. The only reason I can think off that PER could not handle all these flights is in customs and immigration

Thanks for the Info. This could be the reason why you had to stay in the air.

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 2): However, at 16:00 around that time, there are upto 4 widebodies at PER at a time...

Maybe the 77W was to big.  

United's flight from San Francisco to Sydney repeatedly gets delayed before departure because of a 'short flight time'. Arriving in Sydney before the night curfew ends apparantly isn't allowed. They re-time the departure such that the flight arrives at exactly 6.00 (or 5.55 I believe).

sounds like a classical case of holding due to dense traffic to me. happens all the time, everywhere.

Quoting LHFADUS (Reply 5): sounds like a classical case of holding due to dense traffic to me. happens all the time, everywhere.

I've been in a plane on hold, but that is usually in the air, this is the first time I've experienced on the ground before departure.

Thanks for all the info.

-CXfirst

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 6): I've been in a plane on hold, but that is usually in the air, this is the first time I've experienced on the ground before departure.

You mean at departure at DXB or PER?

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 7): You mean at departure at DXB or PER?

Departure was at DXB, the departure was delayed 25 minutes to allow a maximum of 15-20 minute early landing (not 40-45 minutes) at PER

EK 424 DXB-PER

-CXfirst

I think that there are a few people reading this thinking the delay was a hold in the air prior to landing, when actually the hold was before take off in Dubai.

According to the Amadeus it arrives at 00:55 a.m at PER. So I guess it is no curfew. Maybe they just did not want them in so early.

Quoting Wolverhampton (Reply 9):

That what I was thinking too.  

Often happens on inbound flights I've operated to LGW. You can't arrive more than 30 minutes earlier than your arrival slot without prior agreement from ATC. So if we've perhaps had an early departure (rare I know!), a quick flight down, a fast turn, and then expecting a short flight back (or the planners have been over generous with block times!), we often hold on the ramp before departing. Frustrating, but avoids a slot violation. Too many slot violations, and the airline loses the slot. Often happens ex LGW in the summer to small Greek islands, as they have very limited handling capabilities. An earlier flight into the island maybe running late, and they'll hold departures until they can accommodate later flights. An aircraft simply going tech and blocking a stand at somewhere small like EFL or JSI in the middle of summer can screw everything up for every airline operating there!

Like SYD, Tokyo Narita has a curfew that lifts at 0600.
Unless an emergency, no traffic until then. Once our aircraft was held at BKK because of 'short flight duration'

We have a note in our company documentation about Perth warning that early arrivals may result in Customs and Immigration not being able to process the flight if the arrival is prior to 5am.

It happens with flights coming into Heathrow during certain times of the year. For instance when there are very strong tailwinds coming across the Atlantic. Aircraft will often hold on the ground at the departure station to avoid arriving at LHR too early.

I found the quote in our manual:
"Customs and Immigration staff may not be available between 0300 and 0500 LT. International arrivals in this period may be required to keep passengers onboard until Customs and Immigration facilities are available."

This has happened to me at least once when flying from HEL to CDG. I'd imagine "short flight time" delays are common on flights going to heavily slot-restricted airports.

Quoting AJ (Reply 15): I found the quote in our manual: "Customs and Immigration staff may not be available between 0300 and 0500 LT. International arrivals in this period may be required to keep passengers onboard until Customs and Immigration facilities are available."

EK 424 lands at around 1 am, and as far as I know, 45 minutes earlier than that is not inbetween 0300 and 0500....

-CXfirst

weren't you the one saying how good Perth airport is? reason for the delay is probably due to the fact that customs can't handle Qantas, Emirates & Singapore A/L all arriving at the same time whilst working Singapore & South African flights that depart at around midnight and 1am.

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 2): However, at 16:00 around that time, there are upto 4 widebodies at PER at a time...

getting out of Perth is far easier than getting in...