lrdc9
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Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:28 pm

On Midwest's website ( http://www.midwestairlines.com/ ) there is a release stating that it will begin dumping M80s for A320s or B737NG. Anybody in the know have an idea which way they are leaning or will order? I'm thinking B737NG, but . . . you never know! Advance Thx for those w/ info!
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DeltaAVL
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:29 pm

Since the MD80s have been so good for Midwest I'd hope they'd go with Boeing. But this may come down to whoever gives them the best deal.
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PanAm747
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:37 pm

Well, since they have 717's, one would imagine Boeing would be the preferred supplier, given the "commonality" (such as it is between the 717 and 737), but nothing is set in stone.

The question for me would be "how are they going to configure the new plane?" Are they going to do a premium-style cabin like the 717's that are 2x2? Or will we see a standard 3x3?
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xtoler
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:37 pm

I'm no betting man, but I'm thinkin' they are going Boeing. Airbus makes a great product, but it's pretty sad an airline named US Airways flies a European aircraft. All joking aside, seeing as how MDW flew MD's for so long, I'm betting they could go to 73's and maybe some 71's if Air Tran will give them up.
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lrdc9
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:38 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2):
"how are they going to configure the new plane?"

Well, according to another prees release, the 717 fleet will be 2 class by the middle of next year

Well, well wouldn't that be nice of Air Tran to sell them! Maybe open up some more gates at ATL for those deffered 737NGs  stirthepot 

[Edited 2007-10-07 10:41:37]
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FRNT787
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:43 pm

One would expect the airline to order the 737 (either 700 or 800) to replace their MD fleet (After all Airtran seems quite successfull with the 717/737 combo).
I do not know much about their finances, will they be able to secure enough financing to replace the whole MD fleet?
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avconsultant
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:45 pm

This should not be a surprise nor should the selection of Airbus be a surprise.

Ease of integration when NWA takes over.
 
AmtrakGuy
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:49 pm

Don't forget, Midwest could consider E90/E95 planes.
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:55 pm

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 7):
consider E90/E95 planes

Isn't a ~100 seater a little small for replacing a ~150 seater? Specially considering they already have a nice fleet of 717s to fill that size category? Just a thought...


CanadianNorth
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JBo
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:58 pm

It's been known for a long time now that YX wants to get rid of the MD-80s. This was known even before the FL merger went public.

For those that haven't kept up over the past year or so, the 717s will go to a "two-class," 40-signature and 59-saver seat setup.

Another forum member here said he had heard from within the company that 737s will be the replacements, and that this was one of Midwest's last major decisions as an independent company before the TPG offer was approved.

Quoting Avconsultant (Reply 6):
Ease of integration when NWA takes over.

Assuming TPG sells to NWA.
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0newair0
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:15 pm

1) I thought that durring the merger fuss that Midwest said they wanted A319s or 20s
2) I also heard that AirTran was/(still is?) trying to find a buyer to take some (all?) 717s

[Edited 2007-10-07 12:23:23]
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mke717spotter
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:22 pm

I've always thought they they would go with 738s and I'm still pretty confident that's where they are heading.
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wjcandee
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:28 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 10):
1) I thought that durring the merger fuss that Midwest said they wanted A319s or 20s
2) I also heard that AirTran was/(still is?) trying to find a buyer to take some (all?) 717s

Midwest wanted the Airbii in order to create roadblocks to Airtran. They may still want to do so.

Are you saying that Airtran is trying to unload 717s? Never heard that, ever.
 
srbmod
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:36 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 10):
2) I also heard that AirTran was/(still is?) trying to find a byer to take some (all?) 717s

I think you may have it backwards, AirTran has been trying to pick up any 717s that go on the open market. The 73G is not an ideal fit for all of FL's routes, and gives them flexibility in regards to scheduling as well. Plus, a large part of their 717 fleet is leased, as they sold and leased them back for some liquidity earlier in the decade. So they can just as easily just return them to the lessor when the lease is up.

Since the 717 has no commonality with the 737NG, it really is anyone's guess on whether they'll stick with Boeing or go with Airbus. With both the A320 family and the 737NG family both with 3X3 seating in coach, how would YX do their "Saver Service" cabin? Would they still do it 2X3, and wouldn't that make the aisle offset?
 
0newair0
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:39 pm

I may have been misinformed regarding the 717 issue. All I can tell you is that was what was told to me.
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LASoctoberB6
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:48 pm

it had to come sometime soon...im just glad the 717s arent going anywhere..

Quoting Avconsultant (Reply 6):

Ease of integration when NWA takes over.

when would that happen?
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af773atmsp
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:14 pm

I think YX will order 737s (737-700 or 800 series). What would a YX 737 look like? But maybe YX would order the A319 or 320 because of FL trying to merge with YX.
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SNCNtry32
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:28 pm

Quoting Avconsultant (Reply 6):
Ease of integration when NWA takes over.

That is what I was thinking.

Its only a matter of time IMHO.
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isitsafenow
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:32 pm

Quoting Avconsultant (Reply 6):

You think like me. That could be dangerous....LOL
How bout this? NW leases A319's to Midwest and NW replaces their A319's with EM-195's.

DIdn't FAVRE tell us about the EM 195's?
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B6WNQX
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:36 pm

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 16):
What would a YX 737 look like?

Here ya go...


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sunking737
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:03 pm

Guys Don't forget that when the TPG/NWA - YX merger goes through, NWA will own like 47% of YX.

I would think that would force YX to go to Airbus !!!

So how about a Airbus A319 in YX colors?
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MKENut
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:44 pm

Tim has been talking about replacing the MD80's for almost 2 years now. I hope they choose the A320 so FL can't use fleet commonality as a reason to merge with YX in the future. Also I suspect ERJ's will be on order within a year or two.
 
MKENut
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:48 pm

Quoting Xtoler (Reply 3):
Airbus makes a great product, but it's pretty sad an airline named US Airways flies a European aircraft.

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Airbus use American made parts in their aircraft?
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 1):
Since the MD80s have been so good for Midwest I'd hope they'd go with Boeing. But this may come down to whoever gives them the best deal.

It could come down to manufacturing slots. Airbus is working on creating quite a few more. Boeing would have an easier time ramping up, but hasn't been that motivated to do so. Yes, the AA order looks to be perking up Boeing production.

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 7):
Don't forget, Midwest could consider E90/E95 planes.

Embraer has a production slot issue. While I think the E190AR/E195 would provide them great flexibility, I'm thinking a 738/a320 would be a better size match.

Quoting MKENut (Reply 22):

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Airbus use American made parts in their aircraft?

Correct. 30% to 60% of the value of the airframe (model and engine selection dependent).

Lightsaber
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floridaflyboy
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:18 pm

Quoting Sunking737 (Reply 20):
Guys Don't forget that when the TPG/NWA - YX merger goes through, NWA will own like 47% of YX.

I would think that would force YX to go to Airbus !!!

Well, not necessarily. Remember, AF and KL. AF buys the A320 family for that category, while KL uses the 737 for the same category.
Good goes around!
 
eraugrad02
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:32 pm

Only thing i can say about that picture is that it looks GORGEOUS. I'd like to see 737's in XY fleet. I know this wouldn't happen but I'd like XY to be 1st 737-600 Operator. Yes yes I know. Won't happen.
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jlbmedia
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:37 pm

Might they want to get the A320 series for fleet commonality, as N.W. is a major investor?
JLB54061
 
NZA320
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting Avconsultant (Reply 6):
Ease of integration when NWA takes over.

Then shouldn't Midwest replace their MD-80s with DC-9s Big grin
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JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:17 pm

This might be good for G4 as they are looking to pick up some more birds with the new expansion plan.
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September11
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:37 pm

Wonder if they will do water cannon salute on their last M80 flight?


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On side note, I think there are less than 10 M80s in Midwest's fleet? And none of them are 2-2 seating configured planes (in coach)?
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D328
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:54 pm

Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 26):



Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 26):
Might they want to get the A320 series for fleet commonality, as N.W. is a major investor?

Why, YX is not NW. NW pilots do not fly for YX and YX pilots do not fly for NW. Who cares about the fleet commonality then. And yes I know NW owns part of YX.

But I still say fleet commonality has nothing to do with it, so who cares.
 
UnknownUser
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:01 am

If YX ever wants me as a current and future customer, they better order Boeing.
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JBo
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting September11 (Reply 29):
On side note, I think there are less than 10 M80s in Midwest's fleet? And none of them are 2-2 seating configured planes (in coach)?

They have 12, and they were recently converted to have 12 signature seats in front. Cabin service is the same no matter where you sit.

Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 25):
I'd like to see 737's in XY fleet.

YX.  Wink

Quoting UnknownUser (Reply 31):
If YX ever wants me as a current and future customer, they better order Boeing.

Have something against Airbus, do you? If so, that's a bit ridiculous. An airplane is an airplane.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
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mke717spotter
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting September11 (Reply 29):
Wonder if they will do water cannon salute on their last M80 flight?

They did one for their last DC-9 flight, so I don't see why they wouldn't do it for the MD-80 either.

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RayChuang
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:45 am

If Midwest Airlines does get an ownership stake from Northwest Airlines, then YX will get the A319 to replace their MD-80 fleet. The A319 has similar seating capacity to the MD80 in YX's premium cabin configuration, and the A319 easily has the range to fly from Milwaukee to anywhere in the USA.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting UnknownUser (Reply 31):
If YX ever wants me as a current and future customer, they better order Boeing.

even thought i will most likely stick with Delta if YX wants me on a plane it will be a boeing!
If it aint boeing i aint going!!
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CIDFlyer
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 28):
This might be good for G4 as they are looking to pick up some more birds with the new expansion plan.

I was thinking ths exact same thing!
 
eraugrad02
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 32):
YX. Wink

yes thx. lol.
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AviationAddict
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting Lrdc9 (Thread starter):

Can you provide a link to the release? I don't see anything on the website that says they're dumping aircraft; in fact the only recent MD-80 related press release I can find is the one about the small handful of 80s they picked up earlier in the year.



Furthermore, this topic has been discussed at great length before and YX has consistently said they want to try to find replacement aircraft on the used market first so it could be a while before we see a new type in Midwest colors seeing how both the 73G/738 and A319/A320 are incredibly popular types with few examples out on the second hand market.

There was also a picture floating around the net a while back which showed a top YX exec holding a Boeing 738 model in Midwest colors, not sure if that means anything...
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:44 am

I think it will be A320's. NWA has a few extra's and they could easly put them in Midwest colors and start flying them. That way they will not be sitting in the desert.
 
sideflare75
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 32):
They have 12, and they were recently converted to have 12 signature seats in front. Cabin service is the same no matter where you sit.

Actually it's 13. Two in charter configuration, and the other eleven in the same Saver with 3 rows of Signature seating. Also they are changing the service so they will now be starting in the front and not the back. I guess they have to make sure those people who paid to upgrade get meals and get them first.

The two -88's they just added are on a three year lease and the plan I heard was they would be the last to go, so take that for what it is worth.

Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 38):
There was also a picture floating around the net a while back which showed a top YX exec holding a Boeing 738 model in Midwest colors, not sure if that means anything...

Yeah that was Carol S. holding the model. The Boeing rep has one in his office at the hangar also. Probably doesn't mean squat.

Tim has stated publically many times now that it will be 320s or 737-800s. That is what the choice comes down to. I still think they will be used and not new, given how long it will take to get new ones, but that is just my guess. OK back to the speculating.
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:08 am

While this is inevitable, I will take it with a grain of salt until an order is formally announced. We have been reading these rumors for years. Can YX even afford new aircraft at this point? The 717/MD-80 was a unique combo, I'll miss the Mad Dogs. I hope they choose the A320 to deter FL.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 28):
This might be good for G4 as they are looking to pick up some more birds with the new expansion plan.

I doubt it, the bulk of the fleet are MD-81's and very old, even by MD-80 standards. There are even a couple in the fleet that were part of the launch order from SR.
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LASoctoberB6
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 41):
to deter FL.

i thought FL gave up, what are they planning now?
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dbo861
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 32):
They have 12, and they were recently converted to have 12 signature seats in front. Cabin service is the same no matter where you sit.

If the cabin service is the same, then how much more will they be charging for the signature seats? I can't imagine people would be willing to spend a lot more just for a bigger seat if it's the same service, but then again, what do I know.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 28):
This might be good for G4 as they are looking to pick up some more birds with the new expansion plan.

There will be plenty of MD80s available once AA starts taking delivery of the 738s again in 2009. Doesn't AA already do maintenance on G4's aircraft? (Not that I'm trying to change the subject of this thread.)

[Edited 2007-10-07 21:28:09]
 
concentriq
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 35):
YX wants me on a plane it will be a boeing!
If it aint boeing i aint going!!



Quoting UnknownUser (Reply 31):
If YX ever wants me as a current and future customer, they better order Boeing.

wow... i hope there is a good reason for it! care to expand on that?
Mobilis In Mobili
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 42):
thought FL gave up, what are they planning now?

YX may in the clear for now but I'm sure FL will make another attempt at some point. Of course with the A320, there is the possibly of being run over by NW, as others have eluded to.

Quoting Dbo861 (Reply 43):
There will be plenty of MD80s available once AA starts taking delivery of the 738s again in 2009. Doesn't AA already do maintenance on G4's aircraft?

But like the YX Mad Dogs, the AA ones that will be leaving the fleet are fairly old. G4 is looking for newer build MD-83's specifically, the AS rumor last year seemed to have been a great fit. As for the maintenance, I don't know but I sure hope so.  Smile
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warszawa
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:02 am

YX will probably go for the 737-800's, new builds, or temporarily leased 'used' aircraft (assuming they're in a hurry to rid the MD-8X's out of the fleet), until their new builds arrive off the line at boeing. . A320's just doesnt fit right for YX with me (I cant even picture the YX paint scheme on an A320, but I can on the 738). Reminds me of the FL Ryan Intl A320's pre-73G days at FL. The 320's always looked like an oddball match for FL, the 73G's however seem to fit right in.

The A320's that are in the desert (Ex NW aircraft, for example), last I recall, most if not all have already been scrapped or are in the process of scrapping (none are simply 'Stored', they're all parted out in some ways, some heavily parted out and some scrapped).

Nonetheless, I recently flew on YX's MD-82's and found them to be in excellent shape and very comfortable (also very quiet!). I'll miss the 2x3 seating, but, nowadays, the mainstream is 3x3, with the middle seat on both sides now, ugh.

YX will choose whats right for them and their goals/future plans. Their choice in aircraft, IMO, has nothing to do with their relationship with NW, nor their "relationship" with FL.

As far as G4, arn't there plenty of MD-82/83 aircraft bathing in the desert these days? Why wait for YX?
Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
 
MKENut
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:58 am

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 42):
i thought FL gave up, what are they planning now?

They have for now. FL has said they have not ruled out future talks with YX for a merger. I hope when TPG sells YX, that they are not easy pickings for a merger. Maybe YX will be the one in pursuit of a merger with another airline on their own terms.
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:40 pm

Quoting Dbo861 (Reply 43):
Doesn't AA already do maintenance on G4's aircraft?

Yes.

Good article in the most recent issue of Airways Magazine about AA's Tulsa mx operation.
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: Midwest Dumping MD80s!

Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:02 pm

I'm expressing my vote in favor of the 737 for obvious reasons.
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