patches
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 5:56 am

Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 21, 2000 11:20 am

Man, I did'nt know there was such a brutal war going on between the fans of boeing and the "the bus" I'm going to switch gears here a little bit and ask you people this question. What do you think about boeing making a shortend 757. The 737 is a fantastic airplane, but lets face it, that fuslage is from the 707 era and thats from the late 1950's. It seems like a very dated airframe to me. I think they would be able to compete against the A320 and A319 even better than they are with a scaled down 757. the 57 is a much more streamlined and modern looking plane than the 737. also the 757 is proven winner.
 
Guest

RE: Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 21, 2000 11:26 am

No there is not anything wrong with the 737s body! The 737NG is practically a new plane itself, and is not an old design! There would not be a shortened 757 because Boeing has just rolled out the latest 737-900 which can fit around 180 PAX, compared to the normal 757 seating of 186!
 
patches
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 21, 2000 11:43 am

King767, I realize the 737-900 is an all new plane. But it still "Looks" like a 737 from 1965. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it or not airlines still base on what they buy somwhat on looks.
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 21, 2000 2:14 pm


I dont think that airlines ever base their acft acquisitions based on how the acft looks. I mean, PUHLEEZE!

Its the economics that makes or breaks a plane. Though I am a fan of the "the bus" as someone put it, i must admit that the 737NG family does make terrific sense.

If you ask me, i dont think they should have discontinued the 737-400 though. I mean it was the best bet to compete against the A320.

 
D L X
Posts: 11631
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 21, 2000 3:10 pm

"...the fuselage is from the 707 era..."

What? I guess the wheels are from the BC era. A fuselage is a just a tube, and guess what! With the exception of the 747, they are all just aluminum cylinders. They all do their job well, so why does it matter if it looks like the same thing as the 707? The wheels look like their 2000 year old cousins too, but they do the job just the same.

(Read, don't reinvent the wheel.)

On top of that, the 757 is descendent from the same 707 that the 737 fuselage descends from. Shortening the 757 to 737 length, even 739 length would create an airframe that is very heavy for the role the 737 flies.
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 21, 2000 3:33 pm

Say, what would you like this "shortened 757" to look like? Something like this?


(Yes, I borrowed a pic and re-touched it)

Doesn't it look like a 739? And doesn't it look even more like an A320? It's hard to make planes look different nowadays...let's just face it.

It's like saying that the A330 needs a replacement, since it looks a lot like the A300 from the 70's...

/Danny
 
Ruscoe
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 5:41 pm

RE: Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 21, 2000 7:03 pm

I have often wondered why Boeing didn't put the 757 nose on the 737ng.
Would have made it look modern.
Ruscoe
 
Ruscoe
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 5:41 pm

RE: Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 21, 2000 7:05 pm

Danny,
Can you splice a 757 nose onto a 737 and post the picture?
Thanks Ruscoe
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

Ruscoe...

Mon Aug 21, 2000 7:36 pm

Something like this? This is a 738 with a 752 nose/cockpit section.



Looks better...

Any more?

/Danny
 
Ruscoe
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 5:41 pm

RE: Ruscoe...

Mon Aug 21, 2000 7:39 pm

Thanks Danny,
That is a good looking aircraft
Ruscoe
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 21, 2000 7:42 pm

You're right, it does look better. I wonder why they didn't change the cockpit with the NG's...

/Danny
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 21, 2000 9:28 pm

The 757's cockpit/nose was purely accidental in its design. When the 757/767 were being designed, it was still in the days of 'throwing the blueprints' over the wall from engineer to engineer instead of shared data over a network--true CAM/CAD. The 757/767 have identical cockpits, and the 757's nose would obviously have to be narrower to compensate for fueslage width. The beam of the aircraft played a large part in the design of the nose. If they were to widen it and flatten it further, the slipstream would've created a nose vortex and not given a clean airflow to the horizontal stabilizer. The 'needlenose' of the 07/27/37 had the opposive effect and sharpened airflow over the ailerons. Boeing happened upon this design from a sketch and it turned out to be far more efficient than they could've dreamed. Thus the cheapest operating costs of any narrow-body aloft.

Rolls Royce encountered the same phenomena when the RB211 (when it wasn't in the shop) matured on the L-1011 and Quantas made the selection of the Brit powerplant on their first Longreaches. The bypass ratio was unheard of compared to the CF6s and JT9Ds of the era. The result was a power curve from heaven and fuel efficiency beyond compare.

Accidents are great!
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 7982
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 21, 2000 10:40 pm

Actually, Boeing did study the "757-100" during the design stage but dropped the idea due to lack of airline interest.

What's more likely is that Boeing may offer an uprated 737-900 with more powerful versions of the CFM56, Aviation Partners winglets and an Increased Gross Weight specification so the plane carries more fuel. That will give this upgraded 739 with range over 3,200 nautical miles and ability to seat over 165 passengers.
 
Guest

RE: Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 21, 2000 10:48 pm

Just for fun.......

One of the original drawings for the 757 had it with the 737 nose design.........


COEX
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3661
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 21, 2000 10:49 pm

Danny, although I admire your Photoshop work, I consider the 737-800 with 752 nose quite ugly. Although almost 50 years of age, I still think the 70/2/3 nose is classy and timeless, and really fitting even the newest 737s.
The American "757-100" is cute, though !
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
FedExHeavy
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 6:50 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 22, 2000 7:22 am

The Boeing 757 is a proven winner, but so is the Boeing 737 series, DI mean didn't I hear some where that it's the most popular airliner in terms of being purchased more than the rest, now isn't that a proven winner as well. 
Have a nice day!
So far this is the oldest I've been.
 
FLY777UAL
Posts: 4830
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

Danny

Tue Aug 22, 2000 7:56 am

Hey...

A little off topic, but can you extend the hump on the 747SP to make it a -300/-400 hump?

Thanks!

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
pete
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 4:24 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 22, 2000 8:47 am

Of all the types of passenger aircraft out there, it seems that the 737 family of aircraft has had more success than most. (Maybe not as much as the 74, but still.) They have been making the 73 since the mid '60's, and, even though the modern 73 is a completely new aircraft, with long range capacities glass cockpit, etc. it still is a 73. Seriuosly, almost 40 years in production; you can't put a price tag on that kind of success. Also, what other type of passenger a/c has had 9 different varieties of which 7 are currently flying? 8 in the near future?
Pete
 
pete
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 4:24 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 22, 2000 8:52 am

Congradulations!!! You just created the 737-1000.
 
Guest

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 22, 2000 9:08 am

Pete, the B737-100 through to the B737-900 are all currently flying. There are still 4 B737-100s around in regular use with Aero Continente (2), Faucett (1) and the Mexican Air Force (1). So there are currently 9 versions flying, and there will soon be 9 versions in service and that's not counting the various QC and F versions, plus the BBJ!!!!
 
patches
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 22, 2000 9:49 am

Danny. Great pic on that shortend 757 I think its a great looking plane! Boeing should have gone with it. you are a master. I could not see any flaws in that photo.
 
Guest

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 22, 2000 9:58 am

why would Boeing want to shorten the 757? Wouldnt they be overlapping capacity with the 73NG series??
 
D L X
Posts: 11631
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 22, 2000 1:13 pm

Bobo, there is much much more to a plane than its capacity. There is range (and weight) as well. Lengthening a 737 so that it holds as much as a 757 won't have the range because its structure would not be strong enough to hold the extra fuel. Similarly, shrinking a 757 to 737 size would be very inefficient since it would be carrying all of that structural weight around that was designed to support much more than it actually would be supporting.
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 22, 2000 4:15 pm

Thanks guys, I do my best to entertain us..   Don't you think there should be another forum for these sort of things?

I liked the shortened 757 after all...not that it'd have a chance in real life, but anyway...

FLY777UAL - you wanted a 747SP with the -300/400 hump? Here you go...



Not so good, but here it is...

Any more requests?

/Danny
 
shankly
Posts: 1194
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 22, 2000 8:24 pm

Man, that is one ugly duck!
L1011 - P F M
 
TSV
Posts: 1604
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 12:13 pm

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 22, 2000 9:23 pm

Brilliant work Danny.

If you'd like another challenge how about a 747-400 with the upper deck extended all the way back? No preference for colour scheme but it would be interesting to see it as a Qantas bird.

Best Regards

Rob
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 22, 2000 9:24 pm

that shortened version of the 757 looks great , im all for it, and the shortened 757 would be better looking than the A320 and family.yes the 737 looks outdated.
.....up there with the best!
 
D L X
Posts: 11631
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Outdated 737 Nose

Wed Aug 23, 2000 12:53 am

YOu know, people, I just don't get it. Maybe someone can explain it to me. What makes a nose outdated? They're all the same shape except for the 757, which of course is a comprimise. It really seems like people on here think that because the nose doesn't look like the newest design off the assembly lines somewhere else, the 737 must be old, inefficient, and dated.

If the 737 nose didn't work, it wouldn't be on the new models.
 
Guest

RE: Shortened 757's

Wed Aug 23, 2000 5:51 am

I, too, am having difficulty figuring out how the 737 has any kind of asthetic flaws to it. But the thing that gets me is how a nose can depict an aircraft's age. No way. What depicts an aircrafts age is more along the lines of...faded and peeling paintjobs...loud, skinny Stage 2 engines with low bypass ratios...deteriorating fuselages...and about 800 switches, levers and buttons in a 3-man cockpit flying the plane with a control column that is physically attached to the control surface. The 737NGs are brand new with the turtle wax still gleaming and harldy a wheel cover in sight that has been crusted over with carbon...passenger and neighbor friendly in the noise department...a brand new airframe design composed with "paperless" technology...glass cockpit...fly-by-wire airplanes. The nose is just part of a on going tradition because it is the grandson of the world's most influential and practical concept in air travel. And about it's looks...if what you are saying about airlines buying aircraft because they look good is in fact the case, then, with over 4,000 in existence, the 737 must be to the airlines what Halle Berry is to the male species...the most beautiful object of our desires.
 
b-hox
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2000 2:22 pm

RE: Shortened 757's

Wed Aug 23, 2000 6:25 am

perhaps......will there ever be a 757-100?..
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

Extended Upper Deck 747

Thu Aug 24, 2000 5:28 pm

Thanks again!
As a matter of fact, one of the first planes I ever re-made was a 744. Although it's a United bird, it's still a full upper deck plane...   I'll try to work on a Qantas one for you...

Here's the pic:


/Danny
 
Qantas737
Posts: 714
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2000 8:34 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Thu Aug 24, 2000 5:55 pm

Looks real sweet and I like the look of it better than the A3XX, because it doesn't look so fat. I think it is the nose that makes it look fat. I've made an Air France B737-200 with 4 engines and a Phillipines A330-300 with four engines (turned out a bit like an A340 )
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Thu Aug 24, 2000 6:18 pm

Well, post them! I still think there should be a section for these sort of thigs...that would rock.

Johan (Admin), couldn't you create a Aviation Humor forum, where we could write jokes and post pics like these? I think it would be a great idea!

/Danny
 
Delta777-XXX
Posts: 940
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2000 3:50 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:26 am

what you guys aren't thinking about it... the 707, 727, 737, and 757 have the same fuselage circumference. Boeing did that to save money. I was kinda surprised when I read that...
 
D L X
Posts: 11631
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:30 am

Why were you surprised? Would you prefer Boeing waste money causing higher fares?
 
Qantas737
Posts: 714
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2000 8:34 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Sat Aug 26, 2000 1:00 pm

I would love to post them Danny but the thing is I don't know how to and the files are too big. I'm unable to change it them to JPG format so they take too long to load. *sigh*

BTW I've made a UAL B777-200 with 4 engines.
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Mon Aug 28, 2000 7:43 pm

Well, here are Qantas737's pics. Very nice if I might say so...





And here are my two new pics, including the requested Qantas 744 megatop.




Enjoy, and mail me if you've got any requests...or post a request here if you want to.

Hey Johan, what's up with my idea?

/Danny
 
TSV
Posts: 1604
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 12:13 pm

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 29, 2000 5:13 pm

Thanks Danny, absolutely brilliant!!!

I'll second that call for a Forum of this sort. Why not call it "Flights of Fancy" or something like that?

Best Regards

Rob
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 29, 2000 5:36 pm

Great idea Rob! "Flights of Fancy" sounds really good. I wish that Johan would read this once and for all and tell us what he thinks about the idea. This site absolutely needs a forum like that. That'd make the site complete.

Regards,
Danny
 
Guest

RE: Shortened 757's

Tue Aug 29, 2000 8:12 pm

If they shortened the 757 I'd much rather fly on one of them. At least the rudder problem could be history. I go out of my waty to avoid flying 737's and DC-10's.