NYC777
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Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:03 pm

I just saw on Bloomberg (can't find the info on Airbus' web site) that Airbus delivered 330 aircraft through September vs Boeing's 329.

They also posted orders of 854 vs. Boeing's 903 in the same time period. Sorry I don't have a link.

[Edited 2007-10-09 08:08:52]
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:10 pm

Here we go:

Go Air: 3 A320
Aviation Capital Group: 6 A319, 16 A320, 3 A321
VistaJet: 3 A319
Hong Kong Airlines: 1 A319, 30 A320, 20 A330-200
CSA: 8 A319
Air Caraibes: 2 A330-300
Middle East Airlines: 2 A320
Lufthansa: 6 A319, 4 A320, 20 A321
Swiss: 2 A320, 9 A330-300
Private Customer: 1 A319
Ural Airlines: 5 A320
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Reggaebird
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:13 pm

Any dollar value information for the 854 orders?
 
gbfra
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:17 pm

A particularly great year for the A330.

High time for WINGS to revive his old thread...
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
NYC777
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:17 pm

141 new orders in September:

110 A32X
31 A330
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boeingfever777
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:26 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
Sorry I don't have a link.

Airbus 9-Month Deliveries Total 330 Planes, One Ahead of Boeing

There you go freind!  yes 
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scouseflyer
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:28 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
141 new orders in September:

and a whole pile more to be confirmed in Oct, BA A380s, Wizzair and Tiger A320s

both races (orders and deliveries) are somewhat too close to call.

What's simply astonishing is that since the begining of 2005 A and B have sold over 5500 planes and in that time delivered significantly less that half of that - can these times last for ever?
 
astuteman
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:37 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 6):
What's simply astonishing is that since the begining of 2005 A and B have sold over 5500 planes and in that time delivered significantly less that half of that - can these times last for ever?

Beggars belief really doesn't it?

At this rate, 20 year sales would be approaching 40 000 units, WAY higher than the current CMO's

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
They also posted orders of 854 vs. Boeing's 903 in the same time period. Sorry I don't have a link.

Gotta class as a good year for both manufacturers.

Regards
 
starrion
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:42 pm

No, it can't last forever.

This wave of buying is being driven by predictions of how many people will be flying. How many new airlines have popped up and ordered a fleet of new planes? How many of those companies are going to survive more than five or ten years? The airline industry is cyclic and soon the downturn will come.

In three or four years there may well be a huge surplus of 737NG's and A320's looking for new homes at the survivors of the Airline World War.....
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ikramerica
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:11 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
They also posted orders of 854

Those are not net orders. They are gross orders. Due to A350 conversions, Airbus have had quite a few cancelations, and Boeing have 10 cancellations/conversions as well.

Airbus Net Orders: 797.
Boeing Net Orders: 893.

(through 9 months ending Sept 30, 2007)
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NYC777
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:24 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
Those are not net orders. They are gross orders. Due to A350 conversions, Airbus have had quite a few cancelations, and Boeing have 10 cancellations/conversions as well.

Airbus Net Orders: 797.
Boeing Net Orders: 893.

(through 9 months ending Sept 30, 2007)

Thanks for the clarification.

Speaking of cancellations I see that Aerolineas Argentinas cancelled their A346 orders and it is reflected in the spreadsheet but AC and VS's A346 orders are still there. I thought those orders were also cancelled?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
NYC777
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:33 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
Airbus Net Orders: 797

I don't think this number takes into account Aerolineas Argentinas 6 cancellations.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:40 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 11):
I don't think this number takes into account Aerolineas Argentinas 6 cancellations.

Maybe not. I was only adding 131 to the August Net. I can't keep track of Airbus and when they decide is the right time to book cancellations, as they are not consistent. In all honesty the total should subtract AC and VS as well, though maybe not in the current year.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Scorpio
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:23 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
Due to A350 conversions, Airbus have had quite a few cancelations

A350 conversions have nothing to do with cancellations. Conversions from the earlier A350 versions to the XWB have never been counted as new orders by Airbus, and are thus not included in the 854.
 
WINGS
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:01 pm

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 13):

A350 conversions have nothing to do with cancellations. Conversions from the earlier A350 versions to the XWB have never been counted as new orders by Airbus, and are thus not included in the 854.

Initially Airbus opted to convert original A350 orders into the A350XWB, although they have now opted to cancel existing orders and book them as a new order.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:31 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 10):
VS's A346 orders are still there



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
In all honesty the total should subtract AC and VS

When did VS cancel their A346 order?  confused 
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gbfra
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:48 pm

Quoting Starrion (Reply 8):
No, it can't last forever.

This wave of buying is being driven by predictions of how many people will be flying. How many new airlines have popped up and ordered a fleet of new planes? How many of those companies are going to survive more than five or ten years? The airline industry is cyclic and soon the downturn will come.

In three or four years there may well be a huge surplus of 737NG's and A320's looking for new homes at the survivors of the Airline World War.....

Airbus and Boeing execs have said numerous times that this order boom will not last. Both companies do not rule out cancellations. The business is cyclical.

But, and there is a big but. The world economy does no longer depend heavily on the state of the US economy as it did in the past. You could very well see a slowdown in the US (and Europe) and continuing strong growth in Asia at the same time. In this case regional traffic in Asia might not at all suffer terribly. This would be good news for operators of the A320 and the B737.

In case of a lasting economic slowdown in the US and Europe (which is not inevitable !) and ongoing growth in Asia sales of widebodies could suffer much more than sales of narrowbodies. Such an economic scenario would probably be a blow to further fragmentation in the market for widebodies. There might be more to hubs and VLA than meets the eye.
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
ikramerica
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:14 pm

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 13):
A350 conversions have nothing to do with cancellations. Conversions from the earlier A350 versions to the XWB have never been counted as new orders by Airbus, and are thus not included in the 854.

As WINGS pointed out, yes, all A350 conversions are canceled orders and new orders. That is how they are accounted for. This is the main reason that Airbus's Net and Gross totals this year are so out of step. It's mainly an accounting thing, as conversions between families must be booked as new orders and cancels, and Airbus has gone through great lengths to finally make the A350X a new airplane, and want to distinguish it from the A350 of old. Plus, it gives them more press releases and inflates the gross numbers to book them as new.

If they didn't count the A350X as new orders and only gross conversions, their total would still be about 800, but their gross count would be lower as many of the A350/A350X orders are NET ZERO.

But some of those orders got converted + additional frames, which made them net positives.
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azhobo
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:51 am

Total aircraft net orders for the year this week - 10/09/07:

Single-aisle: B737=486 , A320=524
Twin-aisle: B767=36, A330=150
Next-gen twin: B787=262, A350=126
Large twin: B777=103, A340= -8
Very large: B747=6 A380= -1

Total Net:

BOEING=893
AIRBUS=791

Includes Airbus September orders.

Airbus update for September:
Single aisle (A31x/A32x) +110
Twin Aisle (A33x) + 31
Large Twin (A34x) - 6

Net airbus orders: +135


HOBO
 
7cubed
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:57 pm

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 2):
Any dollar value information for the 854 orders?

I don't have a $$$ value but, according to an article I read, 54% of Boeing's orders were widebodies vs. 37% for AB.
joe
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:04 pm

What concerns me is the impact on Boeing and Airbus once China learns how to mass produce aircraft.

As soon as it's Made in china, those margins on sale for A & B will dissapear to $10 a day employees mass producing ChinaJets at half price !!!
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
Luniew
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:30 pm

So Airbus canceled all of its A350 orders from previous years and booked them as A350XWB 2007 orders?
That seams unfair.
 
WINGS
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:40 pm

Quoting Luniew (Reply 21):
So Airbus canceled all of its A350 orders from previous years and booked them as A350XWB 2007 orders?
That seams unfair.

I don't consider it unfair, but I do consider it somewhat misleading and rather hard to keep track of the real numbers. The only positive thing is that all previous A350 orders will have to be re-confirmed by the end of 2007, otherwise it will be cancelled.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
7cubed
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RE: Airbus Orders And Deliveries For Sept. 2007

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:08 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 20):
What concerns me is the impact on Boeing and Airbus once China learns how to mass produce aircraft.

I agree, however, A lot of people see "made in China" as low-cost knock-offs - The recent problems about the quality of toys and other products from China don't help their image either. Whereas "made in Japan" is seen as being of high quality. Perhaps our concern should be for the latter. The fact is, B's and A's days of ruling the roost are slowly coming to an end. I'll bet that within the next 20 years they'll be a few more players in the large A/C business.

I'll also bet the airlines are going to love all this new competition.  Smile
joe

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