SCUMBAG
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Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:57 pm

I heard from a Friend who works for UAL that the ladies and gentlemen based in Asia were routinely booted at the age of 36.... is this true? a good flight attendant is just getting started at that young age! I've flown NWA to NRT and the galley looked like a line for some Oral Roberts heal-a-thon the gals were so grey and hobbled.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:12 pm

Quoting SCUMBAG (Thread starter):
a good flight attendant is just getting started at that young age!

And continue being good at an older age. Still an excellent flight attendant here at 21 years with the company.

Quoting SCUMBAG (Thread starter):
I've flown NWA to NRT and the galley looked like a line for some Oral Roberts heal-a-thon the gals were so grey and hobbled

They are also excellent crew, too.

Thankfully, airlines don't hire for their eye-candy capabilities (eye-candy being relative). They are hired for their ability.
You can't cure stupid
 
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Stitch
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:28 pm

Some Asian airlines do have "age limits" for in-flight staff. SQ comes to mind.

When an attendant reaches that maximum age, depending on their service record, they can continue on for a few more years as a Purser/Senior FA/Flight Manager.
 
luvfa
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:17 am

Other countries don't have age-discrimination laws so these companies can get away with these arcaic policies.
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting Luvfa (Reply 3):
Other countries don't have age-discrimination laws so these companies can get away with these arcaic policies.

Just because something does not conform to what you are used to in the western world doesn't make it "arcaic". The rules are here for a reason. Take a vote on any forum and what favourite airlines normally come out tops? My wild guess would be the ones based in Asia. I could go on but the next time you want to label us like that, think about who the surveyors normally are? Caucasians who are based in the western world...
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QantasAirways
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 4):
Just because something does not conform to what you are used to in the western world doesn't make it "arcaic". The rules are here for a reason. Take a vote on any forum and what favourite airlines normally come out tops? My wild guess would be the ones based in Asia. I could go on but the next time you want to label us like that, think about who the surveyors normally are? Caucasians who are based in the western world...

Well said.. The rules may not be fair, but they are there for a reason, and obviously work.
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:30 am

Quoting QantasAirways (Reply 5):
Well said.. The rules may not be fair, but they are there for a reason, and obviously work.

Yup yup, I totally agree! I notice that most people in the West always think that what they think are always right and the other people's way are wrong. Some people really have to learn other cultures too!

-Jasp
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okay
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:51 am

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 4):

The difference is, that the surveys are from the customer point of view. The laws to protect the employee is from the employee point of view. I hope Asian countries will get their laws updated in the future to realise that having such laws is discriminating. They should realise skills and knowledge comes in time.

okAY
 
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:47 pm

Does Hooters employ 43 years-old waitresses? Does Moulin Rouge have 39 years-old dancers? Does Victoria's Secret have 51 years-old models?
 
okay
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:06 pm

Quoting Afterburner (Reply 8):

And how does this have anything to do with FA's job? This is the crusial difference between Asian and western carriers. They think FA is supposed be young and beautiful, when again in western world other values are appreciated more. And age discrimination is banned by law.

okAY

[Edited 2007-10-10 06:08:32]
 
chrisrad
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:22 pm

Cabin crew on SQ, MH etc are fully aware when they start that they can only work to a certain age, it's not as if it comes as suprise to them, they accept these as conditions of their line of work. They are not forced to be flight attendants, it's their choice.
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okay
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:28 pm

Quoting Chrisrad (Reply 10):

Yes and these conditions are possible in Asian countries as there is no law banning this kind of action. It is the law system that enables this. Working in any job is a choice. In Asian countries if one wants to become a flight attendant they have to accept the fact that they need to finish at certain age. In western countries, however, this is seen as age discrimination, in any job, which one surely chooses freely.

okAY
 
Analog
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:53 pm

Quoting Chrisrad (Reply 9):
Cabin crew on SQ, MH etc are fully aware when they start that they can only work to a certain age, it's not as if it comes as suprise to them, they accept these as conditions of their line of work. They are not forced to be flight attendants, it's their choice.

That (prior knowledge) can be said of many absent workplace discrimination/protection laws. It doesn't make it right.

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 4):
Just because something does not conform to what you are used to in the western world doesn't make it "arcaic".

The relevant definition: archaic [adjective]: of, relating to, or characteristic of an earlier or more primitive time

Workplace age discrimination is archaic to most westerners. It's a practice that has been abandoned/outlawed for all but a few professions (where it is necessary, like acting). Just because the legal systems that allow it are in cultures that do things differently does not make discrimination okay. I'm sure that there are plenty of practices that westerners engage in that are archaic to other cultures.
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:23 pm

Quoting Analog (Reply 12):
Workplace age discrimination is archaic to most westerners. It's a practice that has been abandoned/outlawed for all but a few professions (where it is necessary, like acting). Just because the legal systems that allow it are in cultures that do things differently does not make discrimination okay. I'm sure that there are plenty of practices that westerners engage in that are archaic to other cultures.

Blah blah blah... we can argue till kingdom come. You westerners call it discrimination, we Asians call it keeping the service standards at the upper most levels. Go ahead and have your anti discrimination laws but please do not come bitching and whining about how flying is no longer the glamour-laced activity it used to be.

Remember these ladies do not stop working at 36. Some of them do go on to have very long and fulfilling careers as executive and management cabin crew in the airline. This you do not see because many nay-sayers are still caught up in this discriminatory view that we Asian airlines have. But hey, where is the glamour in flying these days? We all know which side of the Pacific THAT falls in now, don't we?

Putting the contractual obligations (age issues) aside, these ladies are subjected to the same promotional and career progress criterias as their male counterparts. If they work well, an outstanding employee and such, they are given the opportunity to continue working further so where is the discrimination in that? So yes they do grow old but there is a minimum standard to be met in terms of style and presentation and these ladies do it with such pride that walking thru LAX one would not even notice the wrinkles on their faces because they are so well made up.

So I ask again... If they are an excellent employee, they are offered contracts to continue working for the airline - where is the discrimination? Where I ask? To offer a contract to a valuable member of the staff, or to allow the union to come up with laws to buy time for the jaded / frazzled / frizzy-haired / tired out prison matron grannie gruntingly whipping out warm cookies to thankful First Class pax on a 5-6 hr long trans continental flight?

Make no mistake, I have encountered both excellent and downright nasty FAs on North American carriers but the scales seem to tip towards the latter.

Yes... so go ahead and draft up those anti-discriminatory laws I say to the unions. But at the end of the please do not start another thread in this forum questioning the standards of US carriers because it would be akin to flogging a dead horse. We all know why the industry is in such a crappy state presently and yet we like to keep asking "why, why, why" and in the same breath call us Asians "archaic", "It's a practice that has been abandoned/outlawed for all but a few professions", etc...

Could it be a case of sour grapes?
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Stitch
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:27 pm

Quoting Analog (Reply 12):
It's a practice that has been abandoned/outlawed for all but a few professions...

Like Flight Deck Crew... Ironic, isn't it?
 
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falstaff
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 4):
Take a vote on any forum and what favourite airlines normally come out tops? My wild guess would be the ones based in Asia. I could go on but the next time you want to label us like that, think about who the surveyors normally are? Caucasians who are based in the western world...

I hope people are rating those airlines because of the quality of service they provide and not because they only hire young and attractive FAs. If I flew a airline who delayed my flight, lost my bag etc I would give them a low rating regardless of their FA appearance. Even if the FAs were ugly I would give a good rating to an airline with a on time performance, comfortable seats, good meals etc.

Quoting Analog (Reply 11):
/outlawed for all but a few professions (where it is necessary, like acting)

What do you mean? There are actors of every age.

Quoting Afterburner (Reply 7):
Does Hooters employ 43 years-old waitresses?

yes! I have been served by good looking women who were probably in their 50s. When I lived in St.Louis there was a Hooters that had a man on the wait staff. It was at the Manchester location. The building is now a Bandana's BBQ, which is a much better eatery than Hooters.

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 12):
these ladies are subjected to the same promotional and career progress criterias as their male counterparts

Are men forced out at 36?
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okay
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:00 pm

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 13):

Blah blah blah... we can argue till kingdom come. You westerners call it discrimination, we Asians call it keeping the service standards at the upper most levels. Go ahead and have your anti discrimination laws but please do not come bitching and whining about how flying is no longer the glamour-laced activity it used to be.

Interesting point you have that only young people can provide good service. Flying in deed is no longer glamour-laced activity. And when has glamour been started to be defined as something only young people can do? The same job the Asian cabin crews do than the western ones. When do the Asian carriers notice this, too? And allow people to work in the job they like as long as they want and are physically able?

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 13):
Remember these ladies do not stop working at 36. Some of them do go on to have very long and fulfilling careers as executive and management cabin crew in the airline. This you do not see because many nay-sayers are still caught up in this discriminatory view that we Asian airlines have. But hey, where is the glamour in flying these days? We all know which side of the Pacific THAT falls in now, don't we?

Not everybody wants to become managers.

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 13):
Putting the contractual obligations (age issues) aside, these ladies are subjected to the same promotional and career progress criterias as their male counterparts. If they work well, an outstanding employee and such, they are given the opportunity to continue working further so where is the discrimination in that? So yes they do grow old but there is a minimum standard to be met in terms of style and presentation and these ladies do it with such pride that walking thru LAX one would not even notice the wrinkles on their faces because they are so well made up.

Do not mix promotion with ending a contract. In western countries some get promoted as the company sees the potential in them, in Asia they promote the ones they want and others have to leave. Just because they're too old. And you ask where is the discrimination in that? So in your opinion only old Asian lady can look good? Sorry to disagree. Have you ever heard of such thing as aging gracefully? And anyway as said, in western carriers, looks is not the main thing that is valued in an FA.

[Edited 2007-10-10 08:01:52]
 
Analog
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:01 pm

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 14):

What do you mean? There are actors of every age.

Can an 80 year old actor play a child character? Well, if he/she's really good.  Smile Actors are hired for roles. I don't think many are salaried anymore.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 14):

I hope people are rating those airlines because of the quality of service they provide and not because they only hire young and attractive FAs

Exactly! Young FAs are just as capable of providing crummy service as more experienced FAs. If an older (or younger) FA provides consistently crummy/crabby service, then he/she should be let go.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 14):

Are men forced out at 36?

It's kind of tough for a man to be a Singapore "Girl" in the first place.

Gotta love this; SQ fires (refuses to hire?) a girl because she has a kid ('twas in the 80's).
http://bohtong.blogspot.com/2007/02/trainee-was-sacked-because-of.html
SQ Girls are good at following instructions: one followed an instruction [given in jest] to give a disabled passenger an airsickness bag to pee in:
http://bohtong.blogspot.com/2007/02/disabled-passenger.html
 
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Coal
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:06 pm

Quoting SCUMBAG (Thread starter):
a good flight attendant is just getting started at that young age!

Yet another A.nutter who has never flown SQ or MH.

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 13):
Blah blah blah... we can argue till kingdom come. You westerners call it discrimination, we Asians call it keeping the service standards at the upper most levels. Go ahead and have your anti discrimination laws but please do not come bitching and whining about how flying is no longer the glamour-laced activity it used to be.

 checkmark 

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 13):
Could it be a case of sour grapes?

 checkmark 

Now I can only hope for a JFK-LHR on SQ announcement in the near future!

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Coal
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:16 pm

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 15):
I hope people are rating those airlines because of the quality of service they provide and not because they only hire young and attractive FAs. If I flew a airline who delayed my flight, lost my bag etc I would give them a low rating regardless of their FA appearance. Even if the FAs were ugly I would give a good rating to an airline with a on time performance, comfortable seats, good meals etc.

OK, you really don't know what the SQ experience is all about, now do you? Tell me of any US airline whose chief purser will go to their most premium passengers regardless of which class they may be traveling on to introduce him/herself, chat to you about your trip, and offer any assistance needed. Tell me of any US airline that serves a full meal including appetizer, main course, dessert, cheese, bread rolls, free alcohol, and coffee on a 2.5hr (or even shorter!) regional flight. Cat got your tongue? So go ride your cramped RJ, eat those dry pretzels, and shut up.

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bond007
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:29 pm

Quoting Analog (Reply 11):
It doesn't make it right.

Nor does it make it 'wrong' either.

Quoting Analog (Reply 11):
Just because the legal systems that allow it are in cultures that do things differently does not make discrimination okay.

Same argument ... nor does it make discrimination wrong. It is extremely difficult to argue intelligently that something from a different culture is wrong just because most western rules/laws don't allow it.

Quoting Analog (Reply 11):
I'm sure that there are plenty of practices that westerners engage in that are archaic to other cultures.

Yes, exactly. So when we keep saying it's wrong or right, and it's discrimination, add "...in our society" after it  Wink


Jimbo
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SQ772
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:31 pm

At the end of the day, these young pretty girls provide good service most of the time, are well trained in emergency drills etc.... while those senior, jaded, grouchy ladies provide good service once in a while, and are also well trained in emergency drills etc. Which would I prefer (or most passengers for that matter)? The former of course! And lets not tell me that those senior ladies are more experienced and able to handle an emergency situation better than everyone else, cos the fact is, there's no telling how one would behave in such a situation. And don't tell me that they have much more experience handling such situations cos that would only mean that the airline they fly for is terribly unsafe.

Few Asian girls see flying as a long term career. The training and grooming that the airline provides gives them the added advantage of finding other careers after they get sick of flying and serving demanding passengers. For those who really are passionate about flying, it would eventually show in their performance as a crew, and these girls eventually get promoted and fly till they're in their 40s (NOT 36) and get offered ground jobs that gives them a chance to nurture and train new crew. It's equally satisfying I'm sure. In addition, most Asian ladies get married eventually, and the kind of lifestyle that an FA leads just isn't conducive for raising a family and children.

I strongly think that these discrimination laws that the west talk about are a dis-service to the service industry. Why allow someone who hates to serve and deal with passengers and can't do his/her job well be allowed to fly. In any other career, the person would have been asked to leave right away. It shouldn't be any different for FAs.

Seriously don't think there's anything to fight over. Age discrimination is accepted and are here to stay in this part of the world... just like a Dior counter girl must look young and pretty to fit the image the company has spent years building up.

As consumers, we love it that our FAs are attractive and provide good service. And for FAs, it's a great career that allows you the opportunity to see the world for free before one settles down to a more steady and family friendly career. Both parties aren't crying foul over it, it meets our needs. I'm surprised the westerners in this thread have suddenly become so righteous and feel the need to try to change our lives and how things work here... oh wait... deja vu... colonialisaton, iraq suddenly comes to mind.

[Edited 2007-10-10 08:38:06]

[Edited 2007-10-10 08:40:46]
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Analog
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:40 pm

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 13):

Blah blah blah... we can argue till kingdom come. You westerners call it discrimination, we Asians call it keeping the service standards at the upper most levels. Go ahead and have your anti discrimination laws but please do not come bitching and whining about how flying is no longer the glamour-laced activity it used to be.

I find it difficult to accept the idea that employing only younger people keeps "service standards at the upper most levels". Why not just keep service standards at the upper most levels by firing those that do not provide such service? That being said...

What if SQ were to enforce racial requirements? Would that be okay? Could it be defended by saying that doing so is the "Asian" way of doing things (I'm not saying that it is the Asian way, it's a hypothetical question)? Was SAA's hiring policy 25 years ago acceptable? After all, many people felt that flying with a racially heterogeneous cabin crew made flying more glamorous; that did not make it right.

At what point can one say that "western" concepts of non-discrimination are or should be universal? I think race is generally accepted as a clear example of one "western" concept that most people would acknowledge to be universal.

Saying that a type of non-discrimination is a "western" idea and that it should therefore not apply to all does not make said discrimination right. The validity of a non-discrimination law/goal should be argued on its merits, not with cultural or moral relativism. For example, one could say that age discrimination is okay because it applies to everyone, as everyone sees ages 0-65 (barring bad health or an unfortunate accident).

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 13):
Yes... so go ahead and draft up those anti-discriminatory laws I say to the unions.

Funny thing: in the past, unions were designed to enforce discrimination, often in response to anti-discrimination laws. They restricted membership to their own and many businesses could legally hire only union members.
(Just an interesting side-note, I'm not arguing or agreeing with anything here).
 
roseflyer
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:41 pm

Quoting Afterburner (Reply 8):
Does Hooters employ 43 years-old waitresses? Does Moulin Rouge have 39 years-old dancers? Does Victoria's Secret have 51 years-old models?

Those are definitely examples of age descrimination. It is even more biased towards appearances. however discrimination in that manner is legal in the United States if it has been established that attractiveness is a core part of the business. Hooters has been sued due to their hiring and retention policies, however they have established that their business is not viable without their trademark. The same goes for models and actors.

Where the line gets difficult is where attractiveness helps improve business but isn't a core essential. For example cocktail waitresses in Las Vegas have sued because of discrimination policies. That is where there's gray area since attractiveness does not affect your ability to be a waitress, but it does enhance the environment.

In the United States the role of flight attendant does not require attractiveness. Airline's can't discriminate because of age. People choose to live in the United States because of these policies. Sure if airlines did discriminate, then the airline might be more competitive, but that is an area where airlines can't go. In Singapore and other countries, it is allowed. Companies do it and offer a more desirable product. Is that good? Well the flag next to your name here on A.net likely shows what your opinion is.
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SQ772
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:43 pm

Quoting Analog (Reply 21):
What if SQ were to enforce racial requirements? Would that be okay?

Oops... ever seen a caucasian FA on SQ?  Wink
There's always a better way to fly...
 
QantasAirways
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:48 pm

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 21):
Few Asian girls see flying as a long term career. The training and grooming that the airline provides gives them the added advantage of finding other careers after they get sick of flying and serving demanding passengers. For those who really are passionate about flying, it would eventually show in their performance as a crew, and these girls eventually get promoted and fly till they're in their 40s and get offered ground jobs that gives them a chance to nurture and train new crew. It's equally satisfying I'm sure. In addition, most Asian ladies get married eventually, and the kind of lifestyle that an FA leads just isn't conducive for raising a family and children.

I really agree with you on this point. In Asian countries, working for a carrier like Singapore Airlines looks great on a CV and will enable these ladies to get any service industry job they like once they are retired. Singapore Airlines is a brand which most people associate with great service, and this is because of it's strict hiring policies.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 15):
I hope people are rating those airlines because of the quality of service they provide and not because they only hire young and attractive FAs. If I flew a airline who delayed my flight, lost my bag etc I would give them a low rating regardless of their FA appearance. Even if the FAs were ugly I would give a good rating to an airline with a on time performance, comfortable seats, good meals etc.

I don't think people are that shallow. They know good service when they see it. In my own opinion, I think often having a younger crew who know this is a transition job is healthier for service as they are more passionate about what they are doing. People who have been in the service industry for decades are likely to treat it as a 'job' and not try very hard at it.
Spirit of Australia
 
okay
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:51 pm

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 20):
Few Asian girls see flying as a long term career. The training and grooming that the airline provides gives them the added advantage of finding other careers after they get sick of flying and serving demanding passengers. For those who really are passionate about flying, it would eventually show in their performance as a crew, and these girls eventually get promoted and fly till they're in their 40s and get offered ground jobs that gives them a chance to nurture and train new crew. It's equally satisfying I'm sure. In addition, most Asian ladies get married eventually, and the kind of lifestyle that an FA leads just isn't conducive for raising a family and children.

Excuse me? I can say from my personal experience, my mother was a flight attendant for 30 years, loved every second of it, had three children and is still married to my father, who she married in 1967. Our family life was maybe different from the ones of my friends, but with arrangements (some that the airline provided for working mothers) my mother was totally able to do the job and race us with my father, take care of the house and family etc. She retired after 30 years of service, having the head of cabin crew department to greet the plane from Bangkok around 06h00 on a sunday morning to thank her on behalf of the company for the years she worked for them.

I know for a fact also, that AY for example is hiring older people for cabin crew job. The age is not the thing, but the attitude. This has nothing to do with one's age.

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 20):
At the end of the day, these young pretty girls provide good service most of the time, are well trained in emergency drills etc.... while those senior, jaded, grouchy ladies provide good service once in a while, and are also well trained in emergency drills etc. Which would I prefer (or most passengers for that matter)? The former of course! And lets not tell me that those senior ladies are more experienced and able to handle an emergency situation better than everyone else, cos the fact is, there's no telling how one would behave in such a situation. And don't tell me that they have much more experience handling such situations cos that would only mean that the airline they fly for is terribly unsafe.

Emergency of the aircraft is not the only scenario cabin crew is trained on. Also for example in flight medial incidents are to be addressed by the cabin crew. For these one needs to have experience.

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 20):
I strongly think that these discrimination laws that the west talk about are a dis-service to the service industry. Why allow someone who hates to serve and deal with passengers and can't do his/her job well be allowed to fly. In any other career, the person would have been asked to leave right away. It shouldn't be any different for FAs.

Again two things confused here. Misbehaving to a customer is not age related. We are talking here about the fact that Asian carriers let people go because of their age. Not because of their attitude (which in many cases I am sure would be totally ok post 36 birthday).

[Edited 2007-10-10 08:56:13]
 
AADC10
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 13):
Remember these ladies do not stop working at 36. Some of them do go on to have very long and fulfilling careers as executive and management cabin crew in the airline.

Most however marry businessmen they meet on the airline.

Business is ultimately done mostly by middle age men and Asians in particular are rather crass in their preference for young attractive women, even if they are otherwise inept.
 
Analog
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 23):

Oops... ever seen a caucasian FA on SQ? Wink

Well, I don't know what SQ's rules are, and such a lack of caucasian crew could be a result of Singapore citizenship requirements. That's why I phrased it as a question, not a statement.

Now I assume that SQ will never set up a FA base in the US, as this might result in having to hire Singapore Women. Big grin
 
bond007
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:00 pm

Quoting OkAY (Reply 25):
Excuse me? I can say from my personal experience, my mother was a flight attendant for 30 years, loved every second of it, had three children and is still married to my father, who she married in 1967. Our family life was maybe different from the ones of my friends, but with arrangements (some that the airline provided for working mothers) my mother was totally able to do the job and race us with my father, take care of the house and family etc.

But presumably your your mother is not Asian, and does not live in an Asian society ... the whole point.


Jimbo
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Analog
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:12 pm

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 20):
Few Asian girls see flying as a long term career. The training and grooming that the airline provides gives them the added advantage of finding other careers after they get sick of flying and serving demanding passengers. For those who really are passionate about flying, it would eventually show in their performance as a crew, and these girls eventually get promoted and fly till they're in their 40s (NOT 36) and get offered ground jobs that gives them a chance to nurture and train new crew. It's equally satisfying I'm sure. In addition, most Asian ladies get married eventually, and the kind of lifestyle that an FA leads just isn't conducive for raising a family and children.

So those Asian "girls" that would like to stay employed longer are SOL? Perhaps the many that don't seek longer term employment know that such a thing doesn't exist (and to fight for it would mean what for their careers?), so they know not to strive for it. Since the # that can be promoted to "executive cabin crew" is limited, leaving that as the only way to stay employed is tantamount to firing for most.

This kind of attitude (most don't want it, so it's okay that we don't allow any of the gender/age/ethnic/religious group to have it) is pretty bad justification for discrimination, and is pretty offensive to those that don't want to follow "normal" behavior for their gender/age/ethnic/religious/etc. group.

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 20):
In addition, most Asian ladies get married eventually, and the kind of lifestyle that an FA leads just isn't conducive for raising a family and children.

In addition, most Asian [people] get married eventually, and the kind of lifestyle that [most jobs] lead just isn't conducive for raising a family and children.

Fixed that for you.
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:28 pm

Quoting Analog (Reply 21):
I find it difficult to accept the idea that employing only younger people keeps "service standards at the upper most levels". Why not just keep service standards at the upper most levels by firing those that do not provide such service?

There you go... it is all about perception, impression etc...

Lets take LAX for example at any given day you get cabin crew from all over the world walking about the airside. Now, which airline's cabin crew garner the MOST attention? Everyone is all in dodgy looking military inspired business suits but not the Asian carriers (namely SQ, CX and MH). Everyone is all well dressed and proud of their uniforms walking uniformly towards their plane, hair all in place and make up tip top.

The impression that ALL of them are young could not be more wrong. But everyone is all cohesively banded and bound by one mission, to make an impression of the passengers around the airport. No one is allowed to act "out of bounds". This strict code of ethics could very well woo potential customers who might not have thought about flying this carrier, but might want to try it out just by looking at their cabin crew, who are really the frontline ambassadors for the company.

Now picture American Airlines or Northwest with their crew walking towards their plane. I hate to bring an example but humour me for the sake of this thread. For those of you who have been to US airports... look at how they are dressed and their hair styled. Mny a times I have seen FAs that looked like they have just got out of bed and jumped straight into a cab for the airport. Tired? Jet lagged? Which FA isn't?

I M P R E S S I O N.... it is all about that. So not all Asian FAs are young. But the rules are there to weed out those who do not meet the criteria performance wise to get booted out. Likewise if you have a sales manager who is not performing well, wouldn't he be asked to leave the company for under-performance? Same thing here, but we are less cruel and not "terminate" someone's employment, rather we allow them a dignified exit after a contract is finished.

So what the hell, yes we are a discriminate bunch of Asian people. But no one is killing anyone for what is happening. The planes are still flying and customers are very happy. Our airlines are profitable and the US ones bordering/emerging bankruptcy. European airlines are either teethering on financial ruins, questionable management or striking whenever someone kicks up a hissy fit about having to work an extra hour, of having less of a break. Oh yes go ahead and have the unions protection because they can get everyone securing a job till they are 150 yrs old BUT.... who would the potetial customers run to at the end of the day? Where do the awards go to?

Do I really need to answer those questions?
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SQ772
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:34 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 26):
Business is ultimately done mostly by middle age men and Asians in particular are rather crass in their preference for young attractive women, even if they are otherwise inept.

Add Caucasian men to your list as well please. Apart from you perhaps, I believe most men would rather hit on/look at an attractive young woman than someone who looks like your grandma.

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 28):
Quoting OkAY (Reply 25):
Excuse me? I can say from my personal experience, my mother was a flight attendant for 30 years, loved every second of it, had three children and is still married to my father, who she married in 1967. Our family life was maybe different from the ones of my friends, but with arrangements (some that the airline provided for working mothers) my mother was totally able to do the job and race us with my father, take care of the house and family etc.

But presumably your your mother is not Asian, and does not live in an Asian society ... the whole point.

Bond007, you took those words right out of my mouth. Things work differently in Asian societies. The expectations of women are different (although I must say that things are slowly changing). But before we even get to that, I'm half expecting okAY to suggest that Asian society/culture needs to change....

Quoting OkAY (Reply 25):
Emergency of the aircraft is not the only scenario cabin crew is trained on. Also for example in flight medial incidents are to be addressed by the cabin crew. For these one needs to have experience.

It comes with adequate training as well...and medical cases are something that even the young girls on Asian carriers are trained to handle too. I'm reminded of a recent incident highlighted in SQ's inhouse newsletter. A baby was suddenly taken ill, and was suffocating as he was choking on his own mucus. His parents didn't know what to do, no doctors were onboard. A Singapore Girl took control of the situation, and went on to suck the mucus out of the baby's nose using her mouth. The baby's air passage was cleared and was well enough to continue the flight without the aircraft needing to divert to a nearest station. As a result of her actions, the FA fell very ill after her flight due to a viral infection caused by the baby's mucus. Fortunately, she recovered eventually. One needn't be a mother, or to have flown for decades to be able to handle medical cases. Often times, it's common sense, compassion and quick thinking. Young girls are capable of doing that as well.

Quoting Analog (Reply 27):
Well, I don't know what SQ's rules are, and such a lack of caucasian crew could be a result of Singapore citizenship requirements. That's why I phrased it as a question, not a statement.

Now I assume that SQ will never set up a FA base in the US, as this might result in having to hire Singapore Women.

Not really, SQ recruits girls from Indonesia, Japan, China, Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, India and Singapore. Those foreign crew are employed for their foreign language skills which are used for inflight announcements on certain flights. For flights to Europe, SQ trains their Asian crew to make announcements and converse in German, Spanish, French etc. It's all in line with the image that SQ wants to project. That it's an Asian airline, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

Interesting that you mentioned FA base in US. Have you ever done any research on NW and UA's hiring policies for its Singapore based crew?? Ask around, and you'll find out that these American carriers apply the same age-discrimination policies as their Asian counterparts! I wonder why....

Quoting OkAY (Reply 25):
We are talking here about the fact that Asian carriers let people go because of their age.

....before the majority of them get jaded and complacent and lose interest in their jobs if they hang on for too long. By the way, I don't think 36 is the magic number here. Some of the Chief and Leading Stewardesses I see on SQ are definitely older than 36.

In addition, most Asian [people] get married eventually, and the kind of lifestyle that [most jobs] lead just isn't conducive for raising a family and children.

Just to fix it better for you... compared to a 9-6pm with the occasional OT, being able to be with your kids on public holidays kinda job on the ground, I do not think an FA's job is the same.

[Edited 2007-10-10 09:43:20]
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LurveBus
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:51 pm

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 20):
I strongly think that these discrimination laws that the west talk about are a dis-service to the service industry. Why allow someone who hates to serve and deal with passengers and can't do his/her job well be allowed to fly. In any other career, the person would have been asked to leave right away. It shouldn't be any different for FAs.

I don't think that anti-discrimination laws are a disservice at all, even in the airline industry. Service doesn't depend on the age of the FA, it depends on how well the airline trains them. Take BA, for example. Britain is very strict with its anti-discrimination laws, and yet BA cabin crew are some of the finest that I've ever encountered. Maybe it's because they have a sense of humor. It's up to the airline. Even if SQ was subject to anti-discrimination laws, I doubt that their service would tone down. Singapore girls, after all, are not known for their grumpiness. Fire them for being grumpy, for snapping at passengers, for not providing the legendary service that SQ is known for. It isn't right that some girls have to leave just because they've had one birthday too many. Like you said, there are plenty of options for Singapore Girls when they get older, but being able to stay on should be one of them.
 
Analog
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:06 pm

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 32):

....before the majority of them get jaded and complacent and lose interest in their jobs if they hang on for too long.



Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 31):
I M P R E S S I O N.... it is all about that. So not all Asian FAs are young. But the rules are there to weed out those who do not meet the criteria performance wise to get booted out.

Fire those that "get jaded and complacent and lose interest in their jobs". it seems that many people think it would have the same effect as the age cap, so why not get rid of the age cap and enforce non-jadedness and non-complacency rules? The few remaining older FA's would be the best.

Using age as a proxy for performance is a lazy-management (poor) way to get performance.

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 32):
Apart from you perhaps, I believe most men would rather hit on/look at an attractive young woman than someone who looks like your grandma.

That's uncalled for on several levels. FA's are not there to be hit on.

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 32):

Not really, SQ recruits girls from Indonesia, Japan, China, Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, India and Singapore. Those foreign crew are employed for their foreign language skills which are used for inflight announcements on certain flights. For flights to Europe, SQ trains their Asian crew to make announcements and converse in German, Spanish, French etc. It's all in line with the image that SQ wants to project. That it's an Asian airline, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

Would SQ hire a western woman who's allowed to work in SQ (citizen or work permit), or would it refuse to hire her because she's not the right race?
 
singaporegirl
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:19 pm

this is going to be a little painful for me (im about to tell you people how old i am hahaha)... well i've over 36 now and guess what im still flying. yes im leaving the company next year, but that would be MY decision. i've been flying since early 90s and never once i feel that my job is being threaten by anyone.

as one of the more senior "singapore girl" i do believe that age has something to do with the sucess of a cabin crew accomplishing his/her duties on board. what's the secret? awe. you have to have awe... the awe of traveling to different places, awe of meeting pax from diff cultures, etc. a typical singapore girl takes about a year or 2 to become that classic "singapore girl". she will combine her personality, charm and at the same time be strong enough to control unwanted predicaments. after a certain age, a person might not want to serve people anymore. after all a flight attendant is mostly a serving job (i've been flying for over 15 years and never once i had to evacuate an a/c). he/she might feel that it's time to move on. im moving on because i want to start a family with my hubby. that 'flying mother' shenanigan is simply not my cup of tea. besides after serving people since the 90s, i think its time for people to serve me! hahaha...

and there's one other thing that some of you need to understand about us singapore girls. once we leave the company do you know so many companies are dying to recruit an ex singapore airlines cabin crew? i have a feeling that if you work for let's say united, that would be your career till the end of time. which is fine if that's what you want. for us, we join singapore airlines because we want to see the world and have fun. yes we're totally responsible for the safety of our pax and everything, but in the end being a singapore girls is more like being in a sorority. never once i feel that anyone owing me this job. never once. i joined because i wanted to be a singapore girl, thought it was going to be a couple of year type of adventure, but i ended up liking it so much that i continued on. but im ready to begin a new adventure and as much as im still pround of wearing my red sarong kebaya, it's time for me to move on.

and i'm waiting for someone to put us down because the company needs us to maintain our figure. guess what? my husband is so thankful that i always make an effort to lead a healthy lifestyle. because i'm singapore girl, i watch what i eat, i exercise, i don't abuse alcohol (and have a big belly? euwwwwww.....!!!!). i have many, many ex singapore girls who are now working for different companies and they still look fabulous! they still maintain that singapore girl figure, even when they're much, much older now.

and for myself, my husband and i are moving to bali to start a family and i will be starting a whole new career in the hotel industry. it's funny that i have no, zero, nada, zilch experience in the hotel industry but for some reasons there are people from 5* hotels that are continuously asking me when i'm leaving the airline and work for them. my point is there is life after one leaves singapore airlines. there are doors that would open, once you close that singapore girl chapter in your life.
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SQ772
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:19 pm

Quoting Analog (Reply 33):
That's uncalled for on several levels. FA's are not there to be hit on.

I don't think I mentioned "FA" anywhere in my comment. Why would you think that I was referring to FAs?  Wink

Quoting Analog (Reply 33):
The few remaining older FA's would be the best.

And indeed, some of the older FAs on SQ are one of the best in the industry. A result of their policy to let the non-performers just as they are about to get jaded and complacent go perhaps? And just to balance it off, the airline does terminate (sack) sweet young FAs for poor performance/bad attitude too.

Quoting Analog (Reply 33):
Would SQ hire a western woman who's allowed to work in SQ (citizen or work permit), or would it refuse to hire her because she's not the right race?

I think I answered your question in my previous post. SQ's hiring policy is very clear and precise when it comes to the famed "Singapore Girls". At the end of the day, someone who doesn't meet the hiring requirements of SQ but really wants to, and loves to fly, can always seek employment with other airlines, it's not the 'end of the world' for them.
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Analog
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:40 pm

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 36):

I don't think I mentioned "FA" anywhere in my comment. Why would you think that I was referring to FAs? Wink

That was point of that part of this thread (FA's meeting men on aircraft). That, and you said AADC10 is attracted to [people who look like] his own grandmother.

On 2nd thought, there's an off chance that he might be, and it's a bit discriminatory of me to think that such an accusation is a put-down.  Wink

I realize why SQ won't hire women who are married they aren't good for marrying the passengers. Big grin (The smiley means kidding).

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 36):

I think I answered your question in my previous post. SQ's hiring policy is very clear and precise when it comes to the famed "Singapore Girls". At the end of the day, someone who doesn't meet the hiring requirements of SQ but really wants to, and loves to fly, can always seek employment with other airlines, it's not the 'end of the world' for them.

Lovely. When is discrimination no longer acceptable? If SQ's racially discriminatory hiring policy is acceptable, was SAA's "whites only" policy okay too?

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 35):
yes we're totally responsible for the safety of our pax and everything, but in the end being a singapore girls is more like being in a sorority.

Makes me think of a few movies... I didn't realize SQ was that good.  Wink

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 35):

and i'm waiting for someone to put us down because the company needs us to maintain our figure.

Nobody is putting you (SQ FAs) down, not at all. Most of us here have the utmost respect for you and your coworkers, regardless of your employer's employment policies.

If "us" refers to SQ itself, then it's a different story.

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 35):
? my husband is so thankful that i always make an effort to lead a healthy lifestyle. because i'm singapore girl, i watch what i eat, i exercise, i don't abuse alcohol (and have a big belly? euwwwwww.....!!!!).

I'm surprised he doesn't feel it's in his benefit that you stay employed at SQ.  Wink
 
singaporegirl
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:45 pm

Quoting Analog (Reply 36):
When is discrimination no longer acceptable? If SQ's racially discriminatory hiring policy is acceptable, was SAA's "whites only" policy okay too?

you might want to check united hiring practices for its asian cabin crew. and tell me how they're any different than any other asian carriers.

Quoting Analog (Reply 36):
I'm surprised he doesn't feel it's in his benefit that you stay employed at SQ.

because he had seen some of my friends who were once sia girls too, and they still look marvelous!  Smile
Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
 
Analog
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:57 pm

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 37):

you might want to check united hiring practices for its asian cabin crew. and tell me how they're any different than any other asian carriers.

That doesn't change the fact that those policies are (IMO) wrong. Besides, most Asian carriers don't really have to bother with a racially discriminatory hiring policy to achieve racial uniformity, the countries' immigration policies take care of that.
 
SQ772
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:03 pm

It's past my bedtime, but I'd like to sacrifice some of it to pander to your comments...

Quoting Analog (Reply 37):
I realize why SQ won't hire women who are married they aren't good for marrying the passengers. Big grin (The smiley means kidding).

I know you're only kidding, why else would you make such a ridiculous statement? (wink means I'm kidding too) But it only attest to the fact that some airlines have pretty FAs that give passengers wild thoughts of marrying them.... while some airlines have FAs that passengers cannot bring themselves to take a second glance at...

Quoting Analog (Reply 37):
Lovely. When is discrimination no longer acceptable? If SQ's racially discriminatory hiring policy is acceptable, was SAA's "whites only" policy okay too?

SAA's policy was pretty much politically driven, sidelining and depriving the non-whites in every aspect of society and basic human rights. SQ's hiring policy is contained within an organisation, in line with its marketing and branding efforts. Girls who do not fit into the "Singapore Girl" mould are free to seek employment in any other organisation or airline that had less stringent requirements. Just like if you didn't get recruited into Mackenzie because you didn't have the required qualification that they wanted, you would be free to apply to Bain if they weren't sticky about that particular qualification. I don't see how you could lump South Africa's apartheid policies with a private organisation's hiring policies... it baffles me.

Quoting Analog (Reply 37):
I didn't realize SQ was that good

You've got to fly them at least once to understand how good they are.

Quoting Analog (Reply 37):
I'm surprised he doesn't feel it's in his benefit that you stay employed at SQ.

Didn't Singaporegirl say that even ex-SQ FAs continue to maintain their healthy lifestyles and figures after leaving the company?

[Edited 2007-10-10 11:06:35]

[Edited 2007-10-10 11:10:23]
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singaporegirl
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:08 pm

Quoting Analog (Reply 38):
That doesn't change the fact that those policies are (IMO) wrong. Besides, most Asian carriers don't really have to bother with a racially discriminatory hiring policy to achieve racial uniformity, the countries' immigration policies take care of that.

i actually meant more of the age thing than a race issue. united, british airways, etc could choose to hire their asian f/a based on the politically correct practices that they do back home, when they're hiring here in asian. instead, they do have an age criteria for hiring it's cabin crew, just like any other asian carriers.

and i'm eurasian btw. and there are/were caucasian looking sia girls with very light brown hair bordering blondes, (natural hair colour, since we're not allowed to dye our hair). some of them are very tall too (6 foot and more). most came from mix marriages that are becoming more 'normal' in s'pore.
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Analog
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:41 pm

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 40):
It's past my bedtime, but I'd like to sacrifice some of it to pander to your comments..

Thank you; I appreciate it.  Smile Come to think of it, I should get to work...

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 40):
SAA's policy was pretty much politically driven, sidelining and depriving the non-whites in every aspect of society and basic human rights. SQ's hiring policy is contained within an organisation, in line with its marketing and branding efforts.

Fair enough, though I'm sure one reason that SAA had its policies was that their clientele appreciated the racial makeup of its cabin crew.

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 40):
SQ's hiring policy is contained within an organisation, in line with its marketing and branding efforts. Girls who do not fit into the "Singapore Girl" mould are free to seek employment in any other organisation or airline that had less stringent requirements. Just like if you didn't get recruited into Mackenzie because you didn't have the required qualification that they wanted, you would be free to apply to Bain if they weren't sticky about that particular qualification.

Bain & Mackenzie employ based on qualifications that are earned and/or required for the job, not age, race, sex, etc. (well, they'll deny it anyways). If they wanted to maintain a brand image consistent with employing only young white males, they could not do so legally. However, they could try to justify hiring only young white males by citing their clients' preference for such people performing financial services, much as people justify SQ's hiring policies based on customer desire/preference. Would that be okay? I hope not (even though I am a young-ish white male).
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 31):
Ask around, and you'll find out that these American carriers apply the same age-discrimination policies as their Asian counterparts! I wonder why....

The reasoning is very simple. US carriers wish they could achive what the Asian carriers have in cabin crew presentation and standards. However, they are tied down by these so called "laws" that prevent them from having a svelte and nice looking ambassador for the company. THUS, as soon as they get out os US jurisdiction to have a base in Asia, what do they do? The same hiring policies we have here (looking for slim, good skin and pleasant smile may apply).

Quoting LurveBus (Reply 32):
Like you said, there are plenty of options for Singapore Girls when they get older, but being able to stay on should be one of them.

No one is saying that they cannot stay on. But they have to earn their keeps.

Quoting Analog (Reply 33):
Fire those that "get jaded and complacent and lose interest in their jobs". it seems that many people think it would have the same effect as the age cap, so why not get rid of the age cap and enforce non-jadedness and non-complacency rules? The few remaining older FA's would be the best.

So you would like SQ to keep firing and terminating laxed crew? Their hiring pratice is very simple... Here is a position of a FA for you, not too sure whether you like it? Never mind, we will give you a 5 yr contract to try it out. If you like what the job entails, excel in it and proof to us that you are worth keeping (the basic fundamental want of an employer). If not, you are free to leave after the contract of over, and there is also a gratuity to be given out too! So it is not like the girls lose out because have "Singapore Airlines" in your resume, you can be sure companies will come knocking on your door. I can attest to that because I am one of them who got hired due to my past links to the airline.

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 34):
and i'm waiting for someone to put us down because the company needs us to maintain our figure. guess what? my husband is so thankful that i always make an effort to lead a healthy lifestyle. because i'm singapore girl, i watch what i eat, i exercise, i don't abuse alcohol (and have a big belly? euwwwwww.....!!!!). i have many, many ex singapore girls who are now working for different companies and they still look fabulous! they still maintain that singapore girl figure, even when they're much, much older now.

Occupational hazard, the need to keep fit and maintain your figure. There is nothing wrong with this because this translates into your everyday life making you a healthier person. Why not?

Quoting Analog (Reply 36):
Lovely. When is discrimination no longer acceptable? If SQ's racially discriminatory hiring policy is acceptable, was SAA's "whites only" policy okay too?

Let me ask you this question. You know how iconic the Singapore Girl is (or do you now the significance in the first place?), can you imagine a Caucasian lady in a sarong kebaya? This is something an Asian (only) can pull off, I am sad to say. Therefore, sometimes we have to come to a point to admit that there are certain things best left to a certain race to achieve. There are some things in life that you caucasians excel in rather than us Asians.

Quoting Analog (Reply 38):
That doesn't change the fact that those policies are (IMO) wrong. Besides, most Asian carriers don't really have to bother with a racially discriminatory hiring policy to achieve racial uniformity, the countries' immigration policies take care of that

Immigration policies? How did that get involved with the hiring policies of SIA? Do you have any idea how racially diverse (Asian races wise) the SQ cabin crew are? Please before you comment any further, get yourself on board an SQ flight as soon as possible. You have LAX, SFO, EWR, JFK and YVR to choose from.

Quoting Analog (Reply 41):
However, they could try to justify hiring only young white males by citing their clients' preference for such people performing financial services, much as people justify SQ's hiring policies based on customer desire/preference. Would that be okay? I hope not (even though I am a young-ish white male).

Once again.... please try and picture a Caucasian woman wearing a kebaya. Seriously...
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SQ772
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:31 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 41):
Fair enough, though I'm sure one reason that SAA had its policies was that their clientele appreciated the racial makeup of its cabin crew.

Really? Was it the passengers who fought for a more varied racial makeup of its cabin crew or was it the non-white local population who fought hard for it?
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GneissGuy
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RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:42 pm

I find this thread hilarious.

As we speak, SIA has just won yet another international award for most popular airline (just heard it over the news).

Add this to the fact that SIA is the world's most profitable carrier, and you have a near-perfect coincidence of consumer satisfaction versus operational efficiency and profitability.

So now tell me, what is wrong with SIA's cabin crew policy?

I don't want to be pro-Asian or anti-West here, but let's look at things objectively and not impose personal beliefs on others.

To each his own yeah?
 
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yowza
Posts: 4275
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:01 pm

The airline industry in cutthroat, this is not a secret. So if you do not have laws in place that prevent such actions why not make the most of your circumstance? 1% differences can make all the difference. I prefer female FAs to male FAs. I prefer younger FAs to older FAs. As long as they have all of their training down pat there is wiggle room for such practices even if it is a little crude.

Besides it's not like SQ et al cut and run, phased out FAs find meaningful work within the company... There are not very many Western carriers that allow FAs to migrate into other departments so you might even say it works out better...

YOWza
 
mandala499
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:52 pm

Here in Indonesia, we got airlines who apply the age limit rule, and those who don't.

For those who do, one company tends to hire the brainless bimbo just for her looks. Ask her a question about safety and they go "Huh? Say what?" But even for that company, those days are gone! The girls are offered a 3 - 5 year contract, to which the performance criteria for extension is strict... eg: "Qualify for position X or you're out"...

Many of the girls leave after 3 - 5 years anyways not because they were told to leave, but because they want to. These girls end up in airlines that do hire F/As with experience... result... that last company has dirt cheap training costs! *grin* Many leave to get married and have a family (the schedules for F/A here is damn hard on the working mother, but there are many who are, and they love their work and family!)

Here, the airlines do put appearance as a performance standards, the annual safety rechecks, medicals and some get given mandatory upgrade requirements in their contracts... meet them, they'll keep you, fail and you're out! That simple! No one owes anyone anything!

My wife flies with a privately owned airline, as she's not an ab-initio F/A with the carrier, she's on annual contracts, sure it's a suspense every year on whether you're gonna still be flying next month or not, but that's not a problem for her, it's her choice.

What happens in her carrier and her previous carrier is that most of the girls opt out before or at the end of their first contract anyways. Nothing to do with being thrown out.

Her carrier is known amongst the crew as "MILF Air"... sure, they don't have the youngest, but they all look stunning for their age.

This thread is moot because many don't understand the reason why they "look young"... because the young and weak gets weeded out, the hard working ones are there... be them young or old! Now, someone tell me what's wrong with that, or tell me why "keep them even if they fail our performance criteria because otherwise someone will shout disctimination" is better...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
SCUMBAG
Topic Author
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:37 am

RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Old?

Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:58 pm

Never believe, or take seriously.... anything a scumbag says...!
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: Are Asian F/A's Closed Out At Only 36 Years Ol

Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 43):

Once again.... please try and picture a Caucasian woman wearing a kebaya. Seriously...

Well, Caucasian women introduced the kebaya to the region and frequently wore it until the 20s.

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 44):
Really? Was it the passengers who fought for a more varied racial makeup of its cabin crew or was it the non-white local population who fought hard for it?

I was talking about the old racial makeup, i.e. white. I don't think the non-white locals fought for that.

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 43):

Immigration policies? How did that get involved with the hiring policies of SIA? Do you have any idea how racially diverse (Asian races wise) the SQ cabin crew are?

Many (most?) East & Southeast Asian nations make immigration quite difficult, thereby ensuring a certain degree of ethnic uniformity in the labor pool, making any racial requirements for employment a bit redundant. As I understand it (not well), Singapore is not quite so bad.

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 43):
Please before you comment any further, get yourself on board an SQ flight as soon as possible. You have LAX, SFO, EWR, JFK and YVR to choose from.

Are you offering to pay? I'll gladly accept such a gift, especially if it's in F.  Smile

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 47):
or tell me why "keep them even if they fail our performance criteria because otherwise someone will shout disctimination" is better...

Who's arguing for that??