747400sp
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LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:21 pm

This past weekend I was in Charlotte N.C. and I saw a Lufthansa A330 climbing out of Charlotte Airport. Was this a charter flight, or do Lufthansa have flights to and from Charlotte Airport using Airbus A330?
 
Flighty
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:25 pm

They do have a scheduled flight: CLT-MUC, which has been around for years. It may not be daily right now... depends.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:28 pm

yes, the LH CLT-MUC flights connect the two Star Alliance hubs
 
Bicoastal
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:50 pm

It's affectionately known as the BMW Express. Large BMW facilities in the American south need a lifeline to HQ in Munich.
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doug_or
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:05 am

Up until last year I tihnk it was conducted by A340
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GBan
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:25 am

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 4):
Up until last year I tihnk it was conducted by A340

According to the LH flight plan (http://www.lhtimetable.com/LH.pdf) CLT-MUC is a 343 during winter (Wednesday through Sunday daily) and a 333 in summer (daily except Tuesday).
 
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deltadawg
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:36 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 3):
It's affectionately known as the BMW Express.

It's not just BMW, it's also Siemens & ABB in Charlotte, Greenville and many other smaller companies such as Treutzler (textile machinery - Gastonia, NC). I used to think it was a dumb route for LH but it has been around much longer than the BMW plant and the 2 times I flew it it was about 90%+ full. The winter ski season is just a great by-product but the real meat is as you say, the German corporate pipeline.
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RDUDDJI
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 6):
I used to think it was a dumb route for LH but it has been around much longer than the BMW plant and the 2 times I flew it it was about 90%+ full.

False, the BMW plant has been there (GSP) at least 10 years. The LH flight has only been around 2-3 years. As mentioned above, the flight is to connect the two *A hubs.
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earlynff
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:35 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 7):
The LH flight has only been around 2-3 years.

LH had the first CLT-FRA service many years ago. I think they discontinued, when US also started this route, that was even before *A-times, IIRC
 
Cubsrule
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:46 pm

Quoting GBan (Reply 5):
According to the LH flight plan (http://www.lhtimetable.com/LH.pdf) CLT-MUC is a 343 during winter (Wednesday through Sunday daily) and a 333 in summer (daily except Tuesday).

I wonder if they were having performance issues with the 343 in the summer. 10,000 feet should be plenty of runway, but CVG-CDG on an AF 343 routinely takes (took?) 8000 or 9000 feet in the summer even when it wasn't particularly hot.
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earlynff
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:57 pm

I had put a post here couple of hours ago, were did it go, to the wastebox??

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 7):
The LH flight has only been around 2-3 years.

Not quite true: LH had the first non stop service to CLT many years ago, from FRA. They discontinued that service when US discovered this segment. All that was long before *A-times, IIRC
 
earlynff
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:59 pm

really funny, now it´s showing up again!!??
 
MSYtristar
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:01 pm

Quoting EarlyNFF (Reply 9):
LH had the first non stop service to CLT many years ago, from FRA

I'm pretty sure they flew either DFW-CLT-FRA or IAH-CLT-FRA with the 74M...can't remember which one.
 
earlynff
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:09 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 12):
with the 74M...

must have been B742. Not B744.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:13 pm

Yes it was the B742. I remember seeing those flights in the OAG's. I think they used the 74M code...pretty sure of that. This was in the early 90's.
 
Adam T.
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:57 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 11):
Quoting EarlyNFF (Reply 9):
LH had the first non stop service to CLT many years ago, from FRA

I'm pretty sure they flew either DFW-CLT-FRA or IAH-CLT-FRA with the 74M...can't remember which one.

I knew about the LH CLT-FRA flight but I did not know it continued to service to DFW or IAH.
 
N1120A
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:08 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 3):
It's affectionately known as the BMW Express. Large BMW facilities in the American south need a lifeline to HQ in Munich.

Not just the South, but specifically in Spartanburg, SC. Further, you add other German interests, a major banking center and the only true STAR hub in the South Eastern US and you have good reason for the flights.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):

I wonder if they were having performance issues with the 343 in the summer.

Absolutely not. That route is not even at half of the A343's range band. The A333 is used likely because it is more fuel efficient and because the A343 is wasting tons of range.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 14):
I think they used the 74M code...pretty sure of that. This was in the early 90's.

Initially, about half of LH's 744s ordered were combi aircraft. All were eventually converted to full PAX.
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Cubsrule
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:13 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Absolutely not. That route is not even at half of the A343's range band.

Not a range issue, a runway performance issue. 343s have lovely range, but they hog runway like crazy, and CLT, though it's not very high, can get plenty hot in the summer.
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vega
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting EarlyNFF (Reply 9):
Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 7):
The LH flight has only been around 2-3 years.
Not quite true: LH had the first non stop service to CLT many years ago, from FRA. They discontinued that service when US discovered this segment. All that was long before *A-times, IIRC

Since he's talking about CLT-MUC (the only existing LH flight), EarlyNFF is correct.
CLT-MUC service started March 26, 2004 - a little over 3 years ago.
CLT-FRA service started August 1991 and ended October 1992 (14 months) with a 747. Was advertised as discontinued due to poor revenue,
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
N1120A
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:46 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):

Not a range issue, a runway performance issue. 343s have lovely range, but they hog runway like crazy, and CLT, though it's not very high, can get plenty hot in the summer.

The A343 has plenty of runway performance for their mission. The climb may not be impressive looking, but they get off the ground in a reasonable time. If the aircraft can do SXM-CDG non-stop, it can do CLT-MUC.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
vega
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 18):
Quoting EarlyNFF (Reply 9):
Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 7):
The LH flight has only been around 2-3 years.
Not quite true: LH had the first non stop service to CLT many years ago, from FRA. They discontinued that service when US discovered this segment. All that was long before *A-times, IIRC

Since he's talking about CLT-MUC (the only existing LH flight), EarlyNFF is correct.
CLT-MUC service started March 26, 2004 - a little over 3 years ago.
CLT-FRA service started August 1991 and ended October 1992 (14 months) with a 747. Was advertised as discontinued due to poor revenue,

Sorry, RDUDDJI, I disconnected the reply thread. Should read "Since he's talking about CLT-MUC (the only existing LH flight), RDUDDJI is correct".
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
Ryefly
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:55 pm

The route started off as a A340-300 and now is mainly A330-300's. I do see a A340-300's fly over my house every once in a while. A couple of times I even saw the A340-600 fill in for the smaller Airbus.
 
caspritz78
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:04 pm

Quoting GBan (Reply 5):
According to the LH flight plan (http://www.lhtimetable.com/LH.pdf) CLT-MUC is a 343 during winter (Wednesday through Sunday daily) and a 333 in summer (daily except Tuesday).

I think it has to do with the general use of the a/c during the summer LH has for example two daily flights from FRA to BOS. In the winter only one. So I just think they need the 343 in the summer for different routes and can't spare it since US has a hub in Charlotte and can take some of the traffic with code share flights.
 
ILCFII
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:34 pm

yes, they have service to FRA. Not sure if its daily but atleast 5x a week from what I've seen.
 
gigneil
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:35 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
343s have lovely range, but they hog runway like crazy

A340s have fairly decent runway performance - you see pilots taking advantage of whatever is available to them because its good for the engines.

NS
 
safetyDemo
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:46 pm

They have regularly scheduled flights to Charlotte. I think its Munich, off the top of my head, for some reason. But it could be FRA. Whichever one it is it leaves just before USAirways own flight to the same destination - which always bewildered me.
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AlexPorter
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:05 am

They have flights to Munich. I don't know why they don't fly to Frankfurt (their bigger hub) instead, but the flight mostly exists because CLT is a Star Alliance hub because of US Airways.
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gigneil
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:26 am

US Airways serves CLT-FRA already, so this is a fairly good way for LH and US to cover the market.

NS
 
earlynff
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 18):
Was advertised as discontinued due to poor revenue,

as I mentioned before, LH started CLT-FRA service around early nineties, no U.S. competitor then. when US stepped in, (a rival then), market was not big enough for both. Now, as *A partners, they share the tarts.
 
AlexPorter
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 26):

Okay, for some reason when I wrote this it seemed as if nobody had replied. As it turns out, this thread is over a day old. Bug alert! Sorry if I repeated information in that case, I thought I was reply 1!
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cltguy
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:37 pm

They still run the A340-300 on the CLT-MUC route on Wednesdays. All other days it is A330-300. The A340-600 has also made an appearance as a substitute aircraft.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:24 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 23):

A340s have fairly decent runway performance - you see pilots taking advantage of whatever is available to them because its good for the engines.

I'm certainly not asserting that the 343 cannot fly the route. However, given the fact that LH wants to pack as much cargo on the flight as possible (CLT-MUC, like the other CLT-Europe flights, prints money on cargo), I'm simply wondering if the 333 is a better choice in the summer.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
vega
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RE: LH Flights To Charlotte N.C.

Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:06 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 30):
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 23):

A340s have fairly decent runway performance - you see pilots taking advantage of whatever is available to them because its good for the engines.

I'm certainly not asserting that the 343 cannot fly the route. However, given the fact that LH wants to pack as much cargo on the flight as possible (CLT-MUC, like the other CLT-Europe flights, prints money on cargo), I'm simply wondering if the 333 is a better choice in the summer.

LH uses the 340-300X daily year round FRA-ATL, which is 200nm further, 250 higher, hotter than CLT and surely would have at least as much cargo as CLT-FRA
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