SeeTheWorld
Topic Author
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ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:20 pm

According to Ben Mutzabaugh at USA Today:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/

ATA to end flights to New York LaGuardia, Washington National

[Edited 2007-10-11 11:24:20]

[Edited 2007-10-11 11:35:56]
 
quickmover
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:22 pm

I wonder who will get the slots and gates?
 
FWAERJ
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:23 pm

One only wonders if those precious LGA slots are being sold to WN...
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
PanAm747
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:29 pm

Quote:
One only wonders if those precious LGA slots are being sold to WN...

You couldn't get a twenty-minute turn-around at LGA at 3 AM!!

The article, interestingly enough, makes this reference:

Quote:
resulting in poor financial performance in spite of the high load factors.

Full planes do not always equal profitable flights. Maybe that was in there just for us a.netters...  highfive 
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:30 pm

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 2):
I wonder who will get the slots and gates?

There was a rumour floating around here that VX wanted TZ's gates at MDW.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
SeeTheWorld
Topic Author
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:33 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
There was a rumour floating around here that VX wanted TZ's gates at MDW.

Can't really see WN allowing that to happen.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:35 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
One only wonders if those precious LGA slots are being sold to WN...

I dont wonder...if these slots are slot exemptions that TZ won in a lottery, do they go back in for another carrier to apply for?


Also basically what is TZ flying scheduled now other than Hawaii???
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:36 pm

Their gates are next to AirTran at both airports. I've heard rumors of FL expanding at LGA; maybe this is how.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
SeeTheWorld
Topic Author
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:36 pm

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
I dont wonder...if these slots are slot exemptions that TZ won in a lottery, do they go back in for another carrier to apply for?

I suspect they are ... DCA for certain, not sure about LGA.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:38 pm

Most important line in the article:

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Thread starter):
This move allows us to retain the aircraft in the fleet and makes them accessible for our planned international expansion in 2009.

Its been vaugely discussed for the past year, but it sounds like WN's INTL plan is probably further allong than many of us think. Wouldnt suprise me if they had 1/2 the routes already picked out.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:38 pm

IIRC, in the case of the DCA slots, they were special slots added to increase competition. They can't be sold and will be returned to the DOT for redistribution. Expect to see a dogfight for these....though I expect LCC's will have the advantage because these slots were created to help LCC's get their foot in the door at DCA.

As for ATA, it's not a good sign that they are coughing up valuable assets like slots at LGA/DCA. Not so sure if ATA can survive in the long-run.
 
quickmover
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:39 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
There was a rumour floating around here that VX wanted TZ's gates at MDW.

I was thinking about the ones at DCA and LGA. If anyone takes over any MDW gates, it will be WN.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
One only wonders if those precious LGA slots are being sold to WN...

You could be right. When ATA pulled out of DEN, WN shortly thereafter announced DEN service.
 
IFlyATA
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:53 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 11):

As for ATA, it's not a good sign that they are coughing up valuable assets like slots at LGA/DCA. Not so sure if ATA can survive in the long-run.

They aren't valuable assets to ATA if they are causing them to hemorrhage money. It's plain and simple: the routes were the primary reason ATA is still in the red. So one would think, by removing them, it might bring ATA in the black.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
Also basically what is TZ flying scheduled now other than Hawaii???

Flights other then Hawaii include MDW-DFW, MDW-CUN and MDW-GDL.

As it says in the blog post, the planes will be used for charter operations and then scheduled, international service.
ATA - an honestly different airline.
 
COERJ145
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:55 pm

Wow, never expected this.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):


Also basically what is TZ flying scheduled now other than Hawaii???

MDW-DFW
MDW-CUN
MDW-OAK
MDW-ONT
MDW-GDL

A pretty weak route network if you ask me.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 11):

As for ATA, it's not a good sign that they are coughing up valuable assets like slots at LGA/DCA. Not so sure if ATA can survive in the long-run.

I'd like to see YX, SY or FL buy them out or merge. It appears they arn't doing too well alone.
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:14 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4):
You couldn't get a twenty-minute turn-around at LGA at 3 AM!!

Interesting, because that was a reason many people cited as to why WN would never go to PHL.
 
IFlyATA
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:18 pm

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 14):

MDW-ONT

MDW-ONT-HNL is also being discontinued on January 7th.
ATA - an honestly different airline.
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:21 pm

A little off topic, but does anyone think that B6 would be interested in obtaining some DCA slots?
 
N353SK
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:26 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4):
You couldn't get a twenty-minute turn-around at LGA at 3 AM!!

or PHL, or LAS. I think WN has the possibility of being a contender if TZ is indeed allowed to sell, but does anybody know how many slots TZ has at LGA? I can't see WN going in with only a few slots.
 
st530
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:33 pm

This is interesting, I flew TZ for the first time on Tuesday, from MDW to DCA. I had no idea the route even existed, I was thrilled when I found it for a one-off, one-way trip from Chicago to DC. The total fare, tax included, was $54. Aircraft was pretty full, but at that fare, not surprised they're losing money. It's a shame though; it was a very convenient flight.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:34 pm

Quoting N353SK (Reply 18):
or PHL, or LAS. I think WN has the possibility of being a contender if TZ is indeed allowed to sell, but does anybody know how many slots TZ has at LGA? I can't see WN going in with only a few slots.

They only have six departures from LGA (four from DCA).
 
lrdc9
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:40 pm

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Thread starter):
ATA to end flights to New York LaGuardia, Washington National

Its time for a mad fight. I propose exects rolling in the mud for winner!
Just say NO to scabs.
 
tinpusher007
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:21 pm

I wonder if DL will now go mainline on LGA-MDW?
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
srbmod
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:31 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 11):

As for ATA, it's not a good sign that they are coughing up valuable assets like slots at LGA/DCA. Not so sure if ATA can survive in the long-run.

As long as the charter side is making money, the scheduled side could continue to lose money and it not be a huge issue. With World and North American under the Global Aero Logistics umbrella alongside TZ, they're practically printing money with the military charter flights (and the ACMI cargo flights), and can really to an extent balance out the losses the scheduled ops of TZ may have {I wonder if NA's scheduled ops are profitable?})

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 14):
I'd like to see YX, SY or FL buy them out or merge. It appears they arn't doing too well alone.

That depends if Global Aero Logistics would be interested in selling off the scheduled side of TZ, which at this time, looks to be unlikely.
 
andrewuber
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:39 pm

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 14):
MDW-DFW
MDW-CUN
MDW-OAK
MDW-ONT
MDW-GDL

A pretty weak route network if you ask me.

Nobody actually asked you...

Are you joking, or do you really not know anything at all about ATA??? Next time you bash an airline, take 30 seconds to have a look at that airline's website to get your facts straight first.

Nonstop from Las Vegas, NV; Los Angeles, CA; Oakland, CA; Ontario, CA; Phoenix, AZ to Honolulu.
Nonstop from Los Angeles, CA; Oakland, CA; Phoenix, AZ to Maui.
Nonstop from Oakland, CA to Hilo.
Nonstop from Oakland, CA to Kona.
Nonstop from Oakland, CA to Lihue.
Nonstop from Las Vegas, NV to Maui.
Nonstop from Chicago-Midway to Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX; Oakland, CA; Ontario, CA; Guadalajara and Cancun, Mexico.
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
copaair737
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:46 pm

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 23):
Nobody actually asked you...

Are you joking, or do you really not know anything at all about ATA??? Next time you bash an airline, take 30 seconds to have a look at that airline's website to get your facts straight first.

I think he was talking about their routes out of MDW, not their entire network...
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:51 pm

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 13):
MDW-DFW
MDW-CUN
MDW-OAK
MDW-ONT
MDW-GDL

how much logner can DFW-MDW last???? I think FL should re-enter that market and drive TZ of fthe route. Does one receive WN Rapid Rewards for travel on TZ?? If so then maybe they can make DFW-MDW work due to WN FF base in Dallas. I am not so sure that WN in the logn run made a good investment in TZ...It kept FL out of MDW but now WN gotta be looking at grabbing what assets TZ has left.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 25):
how much logner can DFW-MDW last????

When the last remnants of the Wright Ammendment restrictions expire around 2014(?).
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 25):
how much logner can DFW-MDW last???? I think FL should re-enter that market and drive TZ of fthe route. Does one receive WN Rapid Rewards for travel on TZ?? If so then maybe they can make DFW-MDW work due to WN FF base in Dallas. I am not so sure that WN in the logn run made a good investment in TZ...It kept FL out of MDW but now WN gotta be looking at grabbing what assets TZ has left.

Well, we've also got to remember that with the second phase of the wright amendement repeal (whenever that comes into play), WN will be able to do DAL-MDW with their own metal, and we all know that will be one of the first routes they set up.
Good goes around!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:31 pm

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 5):
Can't really see WN allowing that to happen.

I can't really see WN having any say.

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 21):
I wonder if DL will now go mainline on LGA-MDW?

The 170 is the perfect aircraft for this route. 70 seats to mainline is a HUGE change.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 11):
If anyone takes over any MDW gates, it will be WN.

Why? Their utilization at MDW is not great right now, there are not really expanding there, and there's not exactly a shortage of gates as there was 4 years ago.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
SRT75
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:43 pm

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 23):
Are you joking, or do you really not know anything at all about ATA??? Next time you bash an airline, take 30 seconds to have a look at that airline's website to get your facts straight first.

COERJ145's post was completely accurate and validated by your own post. He was identifying NON-HAWAII routes that ATA still operates. It's simply a matter of opinion (which we're all entitled to) as to whether TZ's NON-HAWAII route network is "pretty weak" or not.
 
Tornado82
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:56 pm

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 11):
You could be right. When ATA pulled out of DEN, WN shortly thereafter announced DEN service.

Same with PIT. Neither of those are slot restricted airports though. ATA probably isn't within their power to sell said slots, and if they were they probably would have mentioned it in the article, something along the lines of selling the slots for cash. They'd be worth a large amount of cash, and therefore would be a quite important part of the article, despite being in "blog" format.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):

Full planes do not always equal profitable flights. Maybe that was in there just for us a.netters... highfive

Which other LCC type yield crushers are on the LGA-MDW route? We all know DL/AA/UA would charge $400 if they knew they could get away with it so we can't blame them. The only other LCC in the ballpark now is B6 on ORD-JFK IIRC. FL left the MDW-EWR route awhile back. Therefore this tends to lead to the same kind of whining B6 does about certain routes like PIT being unprofitable... when you're the only LCC in town crushing the yields you've got nobody to blame other than yourselves.
 
wjcandee
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 30):
We all know DL/AA/UA would charge $400 if they knew they could get away with it

Clue: They do.
 
Tornado82
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 31):

Clue: They do

Reiterating the point that if ATA can't make money flying to NYC with a full plane, it's their own dang fault for killing their own dang yields.
 
LGA777
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:51 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
You couldn't get a twenty-minute turn-around at LGA at 3 AM!!

Actually PanAM 747 the US Shuttle turns 319's in 20 mins and less almost every time there are ATC/Weather days,and the flights are runnig late and half full or less, Full ones take more like 25-35 mins but it is a very, very common occurance.

Respectifully,

LGA777

[Edited 2007-10-11 15:51:45]
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting IFlyATA (Reply 12):
Flights other then Hawaii include MDW-DFW, MDW-CUN and MDW-GDL.

I use to fly TZ flights from DFW-MDW-BOS, buy they dropped BOS some time ago.  cry 

Then I used DL DFW-BOS, then DFW-ATL-BOS or DFW-CVG-BOS.  cloudnine 

Sooner or later, all I will have will be AA DFW-BOS.  banghead 
 
atrude777
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:00 pm

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 25):
I think FL should re-enter that market and drive TZ of fthe route.

FL already tried DFW, Couldn't work at all. AA nearly drove them out of DFW.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 25):
Does one receive WN Rapid Rewards for travel on TZ?? If so then maybe they can make DFW-MDW work due to WN FF base in Dallas.

Yes, WN folks may receive credit on ATA flights, and ATA on WN flights.

I think ATA already does make MDW-DFW work largely due to connections thru MDW headed to DFW, and the FF base in Dallas and Chicago.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:42 pm

I think this is exactly why FL has shied away from building up at MDW. In a market like NYC-CHI, UA, AA, DL and CO get all the corporate traffic while ATA is left with the low-yield leftovers. If ATA raises fares, the low-yield traffic will scurry away and it still won't lure the corporate traffic.

It's still somewhat troubling that ATA (with the support of WN's customer base at MDW) can't make these two prime routes work. Maybe it's because WN's own profile with the business gov't markets in NYC and DC isn't very strong. Or maybe ATA's own reputation is poor. I know when I lived in Chicago (5+ years ago), ATA was known almost purely as a vacation airline and I get the feeling they've never been able to shake that image.

The good news is that hopefully these slots will go to other carriers that can put them to good use.
 
IADLHR
Posts: 612
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:46 pm

I was planning to fly DCA-MDW-DCA, for the day, in early Dec. As we speak my plans are not firmed up. However, I can tell from the ATA website. that ATA says that there are no scheduled flights for early Dec. on DCA-MDW-DCA. By discontinuing the route, before Christmas, it does wreck havoc with some peoples travel plans. Fortunately, I am not one of therm.
 
Iloveboeing
Posts: 339
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:21 am

I think WN would be smart to pick up those slots at LGA and DCA. They've been wanting to get in there for years, haven't they?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24612
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 38):
They've been wanting to get in there for years, haven't they?

No.
a.
 
tinpusher007
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 28):
Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 21):
I wonder if DL will now go mainline on LGA-MDW?


The 170 is the perfect aircraft for this route. 70 seats to mainline is a HUGE change

Whats so huge about it if no one else is competing on the route?
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
B757capt
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:09 am

I think you have to look at this as a good thing for airtran. Regardless if its nonstop or not, ATA's continued reductions helps them big time!

FL may not ever fly nonstop to the east from MDW again, but lets face it with the low cost structure they have they probably have the best chance of makin money doin it.
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:42 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
One only wonders if those precious LGA slots are being sold to WN...

No, they're not.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
There was a rumour floating around here that VX wanted TZ's gates at MDW.

There are no gates, TZ only has a lease on 1 and not giving it up.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 9):
Its been vaugely discussed for the past year, but it sounds like WN's INTL plan is probably further allong than many of us think. Wouldnt suprise me if they had 1/2 the routes already picked out.

Yes, it is much further along, has been openly discussed, and is going to happen. TZ has first right to this type of flying with the codeshare deal. My concern is can we hang around with what is left until then....codeshare cities just keep on shrinking not increasing.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 10):
As for ATA, it's not a good sign that they are coughing up valuable assets like slots at LGA/DCA. Not so sure if ATA can survive in the long-run.

Where do you come up with this analysis? ATA will be around. Scheduled service is about 30% of our business and ONLY the east coast routes were near term unprofitable. The reasoning is to only keep that which is consistently profitable and the other routes are.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 11):
I was thinking about the ones at DCA and LGA. If anyone takes over any MDW gates, it will be WN.

Again, there are no gates. TZ only has a lease on 1 and it is not being given up.

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 13):
A pretty weak route network if you ask me.

As a stand alone route system, absolutely, but it is not. The scheduled service side post-bankruptcy has always been to provide feed for WN only and operate where they will not. With that scenario, it can look the way it does.

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 13):
I'd like to see YX, SY or FL buy them out or merge. It appears they arn't doing too well alone.

..and where have you been? TZ is not for sale. Its owned by Global Aero Logistics (GAL) along with NA and WO which is itself owned by Matlin Patterson. GAL is largely controlled by TZ senior management so they call the shots with all 3 airlines. Also, TZ has a large charter arm that is very profitable. No chance of your scenario happening.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 22):
As long as the charter side is making money, the scheduled side could continue to lose money and it not be a huge issue. With World and North American under the Global Aero Logistics umbrella alongside TZ, they're practically printing money with the military charter flights (and the ACMI cargo flights), and can really to an extent balance out the losses the scheduled ops of TZ may have {I wonder if NA's scheduled ops are profitable?})

Mostly true, except only the east coast routes (LGA, DCA) where losing money. The company touts itself at being very nimble and flexible so if a route is tanking, then pull it and stick with what consistently makes money. When an opportunity comes up, we have the assets and ability to take advantage of them whether it be ACMI, scheduled, charter, wet lease, etc.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 22):
That depends if Global Aero Logistics would be interested in selling off the scheduled side of TZ, which at this time, looks to be unlikely.

There is nothing to sell off, but maybe a few aircraft leases which the company doesn't want to part with. The Ops Spec cannot be split and everything else is leased, outsourced, etc.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 25):
how much logner can DFW-MDW last???? I think FL should re-enter that market and drive TZ of fthe route. Does one receive WN Rapid Rewards for travel on TZ?? If so then maybe they can make DFW-MDW work due to WN FF base in Dallas. I am not so sure that WN in the logn run made a good investment in TZ...It kept FL out of MDW but now WN gotta be looking at grabbing what assets TZ has left.

MDW-DFW will last as long as its profitable. Why would FL be better and they already tried and failed on this route? WN no longer has any investment in TZ, only a codeshare deal. They were paid off almost 2 years ago. We have nothing WN wants or they would have 2 years ago.

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 29):
COERJ145's post was completely accurate and validated by your own post. He was identifying NON-HAWAII routes that ATA still operates. It's simply a matter of opinion (which we're all entitled to) as to whether TZ's NON-HAWAII route network is "pretty weak" or not.

Again, as a stand alone route system it is weak, but exists largely to serve as WN feed. The Hawaii routes are profitable because there are much higher barriers to enter this market (i.e. capable aircraft, ETOPS)

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 32):
Reiterating the point that if ATA can't make money flying to NYC with a full plane, it's their own dang fault for killing their own dang yields.

This is not true here. The seat dumping, fare sales, and increase competition by the big guys is to blame here. Never underestimate the ability of the UAs, AAs, DLs, etc to use their largess to dump seats in a market, drive down yields, and drive competitors out of a market. They will take losses themselves just to "win". This is much of what happened here. While TZ was a player in the pricing for these markets, we did not drive it. The other guys drove them way down this year and the only choice is to match.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 36):
I think this is exactly why FL has shied away from building up at MDW. In a market like NYC-CHI, UA, AA, DL and CO get all the corporate traffic while ATA is left with the low-yield leftovers. If ATA raises fares, the low-yield traffic will scurry away and it still won't lure the corporate traffic.

It's still somewhat troubling that ATA (with the support of WN's customer base at MDW) can't make these two prime routes work. Maybe it's because WN's own profile with the business gov't markets in NYC and DC isn't very strong. Or maybe ATA's own reputation is poor. I know when I lived in Chicago (5+ years ago), ATA was known almost purely as a vacation airline and I get the feeling they've never been able to shake that image.

The good news is that hopefully these slots will go to other carriers that can put them to good use.

I don't think its as simple as saying that the big guys get the high yield business traffic and the little guys get the backpackers. This reasoning doesn't work in this environment when it comes to value. ATA's reputation is not poor, but we suffer from being small although all flights are sold through southwest.com as well as ata.com so not completely unknown. I'll guarantee that these slots will not be used to restore MDW-LGA/DCA service. They will inevitable be for another underserved or unserved market not between two major population bases that are already served by many carriers.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:21 am

What is the status of the slots at LGA and DCA now that TZ is pulling out? I assume it differs for each airport. Does it go out for competitive bidding? A lottery? Anyone know or have any documentation? Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Perhaps US will try to boost their DCA presence and maybe even their LGA presence.
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:17 am

RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 7):
Their gates are next to AirTran at both airports. I've heard rumors of FL expanding at LGA; maybe this is how.

That is just great logic....ATA and FL's gates are right next to Midwest's gates at both airports too and Midwest is expanding too. What are the chances! Big grin It's a shame YX doesn't have anymore 717s to flying in and out of DCA. Though I'm sure they could find some CRJs.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:17 am

RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 7):
Their gates are next to AirTran at both airports. I've heard rumors of FL expanding at LGA; maybe this is how.

ATA and FL's gates are right next to Midwest's and YX is expanding too.....
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
CitrusCritter
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:36 am

RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting B757capt (Reply 41):
FL may not ever fly nonstop to the east from MDW again, but lets face it with the low cost structure they have they probably have the best chance of makin money doin it.

If the DOT indicates they want to redistribute ATA's DCA slots to be used on Chicago-DCA, it wouldn't surprise me to see FL risk MDW-DCA. There are worse routes to try. They do very well on ATL-DCA. J7 flew MDW-IAD even after the pull-down of the IAD focus city.
 
flymd
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:34 am

RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:47 am

This really is sad.

ATA used to be my airline of choice at MDW. And they really did offer a great service at reasonable prices. The WN deal really did gut them. I wish that another airline (i.e. FL) had just purchased and taken over their network (though I know the WN deal was better for them financially).

I think that soon ATA will just provide Hawaii connections for WN at MDW and maybe even that will end soon (with connections only provided via WN's west coast routes)
Fly the friendly skies of life!. Enjoy every minute.
 
contrails
Posts: 1312
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:53 pm

RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:09 pm

I've never flown TZ, but I'm saddened to hear this news just the same. I always enjoyed seing their 737's (and their 757's until a few years ago) coming into or departing DCA.

As for who will get the gates, I'd like to think that WN will take them but I don't think that's realistic. B6 would be a nice addition, but I'm not sure that DCA fits with their plans.

Since I've been out here I've seen several airlines fade into history. I hope TZ can come back one day.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
pacallen
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:02 am

RE: ATA To Discontinue DCA/LGA

Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:45 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
There was a rumour floating around here that VX wanted TZ's gates at MDW.

ATA only has one gate (B26) at Midway. B25 and A3 (used for intl flights/overflow) are city-owned gates. I don't see them giving that one up any time soon unless they cease MDW ops entirely. However, I would love to see VX at Midway and hope WN gets a good pass agreement going with them soon Big grin.

LGA and DCA are difficult routes to operate with so few slots because they are so prone to ATC delays (esp LGA). As for MDW-DFW, I can see them keeping that around for a while since FL and AA both pulled out.

TZ is also suspending MDW-ONT on January 7th. IIRC they still do MDW-OAK-OGG and I haven't heard about them cutting that any time soon.