BWIA 772
Topic Author
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:46 am

Hi guys

Thanks for the support, part 20 started out rough died a couple of times but in the end turned out to be pretty good we got back to almost 200 Big grin .

APB for AA1818 Trintocan and all you people who have not been posting as much as you should that includes you beeweel15. To all you other posters nice work again.

TOPICS FOR DISCUSSION

Ok so the major point of discussion is going to be JM and the fact that the new government wants to put a halt to the LHR sale. JM
asked to put VS Agreement on hold
.

I have been in the dark but last I heard LI 8B merger should be completed before year end.

Tobago Express and thus the operating of the POS TAB route known locally as the "Air Bridge" was taken over by Caribbean Airlines on October 1st.

CAL is approaching the end of the 1st year so let the speculation begin on year 2. I say they better get BGI US routes  rotfl 


http://i5.tinypic.com/2na36gz.gif
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1318/687116044_d1ec3c3485_o.jpg



Regards
BWIA 772

PS sorry for the shoddy start guys, but I am pressed for time... I am not a working man so getting up early is now important I know it sucks  rotfl 
Eagles Soar!
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:50 pm

POS is already for sale @ CM website.
Question is, Would CM finally fly to POS this December as they've announced?
CM has a severe pilot shortage.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:58 pm


  • AA's new JFK-UVF and SKB routes start soon.
  • B6 announced SXM and POP.
  • CO now flies the 757 on the EWR-NAS route.
  • WestJet has been wildly popular on it's routes To The Bahamas, and has added YHM-NAS (in addition to YYZ/YYC/YHZ-NAS)
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
mbj-11
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:29 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:08 pm

Add to that a new JM board is on the horizon and I understand that some big names could be back or in the wings.Also look for Vernamfield (unknown to most here on A.net) in the centre of Jamaica with a runway longer than either current internationals could be in the works for business by mid 08. If the investors hold true.
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:30 pm

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 3):
Also look for Vernamfield (unknown to most here on A.net) in the centre of Jamaica with a runway longer than either current internationals could be in the works for business by mid 08. If the investors hold true.

Wll, with a 4 lane motorway linking Vernamfield and Kingston, a new KIN airport there could make sense. Specially since the piece of land where KIN is located now could be so valuable as premium property, but that airport road should be widen ASAP. Those Kingston views from the airport and Port Royal are awesome.
By the way, does Vernamfield Aerodrome have an IATA or OACI airport code?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
B747forever
Posts: 12855
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:35 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 2):
CO now flies the 757 on the EWR-NAS route

Was it operated by a 737 before???

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 2):
AA's new JFK-UVF and SKB routes start soon

Will this two routes be seasonal only or a year around service???
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
mbj-11
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:29 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:30 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 4):
By the way, does Vernamfield Aerodrome have an IATA or OACI airport code?

I know there are no IATA code for Vernamfield, the other I couldn't say. What I can tell you is that the fear was that if it is re-opened as a major airport, Norman Manley Intl in KGN could suffer. It is now being talked about as a maintenance area for JM and potentially other carriers due to its lengthy runway and landspace. Again........it was the largest airport in Jamaica, used by the US to service WWII bombers and also for launching points in clandestine missions. But there is nothing for it, although there is a code for a barely used strip in Mandeville which is in another parish.
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
trintocan
Posts: 2728
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:19 pm

Vernamfield? In which parish is that? I remember that Mandeville has an airfield that used to have scheduled services but has of late been bypassed in favour of the fields at Ken Jones (Port Antonio), Negril and Boscobel (Ocho Rios). Is it really worthwhile to open a 3rd international airport in Jamaica? KIN is in a somewhat space-limited location but it has worked well - apart from when there are the occasional riots in the East Kingston area, then the road to it gets blocked and the airport is stifled. In an interesting parallel the Waller AFB in Trinidad had been earmarked for redevelopment for many years and in many different forms but as yet nothing has come of it apart from a car racing circuit and a Regiment base (which sporadically uses one of the runways).

It would be a shame to lose KIN, the approach to it is spectacular!

So TB has been reabsorbed by BW - virtually taking us back to where we were in 2000 when BW of the time was forced to take over the domestic route after C2 folded. It felt unable to manage the route alongside its international ops - remember that at that time its Dash 8's flew an extensive regional network under the brand Bwee Express - and so TB was formed with Tobago business interests, at least 1 of whom was not very happy about surrendering control of the service to BW again. I wish BW well on the service - with 19 daily flights each way this is the busiest route in the Caribbean and yet a route of criitical importance to Trinidad and, more crucially, Tobago.

Is JM thus going to stay the course in LHR and thus keep the sunny Caribbean represented in the world's busiest international airport? Again, though, if this requires Government financial help to enable it to do so one is left wondering about the route's viability - airlines these days are more about profits and losses and less about prestige.

TrinToCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
BWIA 772
Topic Author
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:38 pm

So I finally found the connection to get my pics and vids off of my camera so look out for new vids from 9YBGI on youtube soon.

The Caribbean Collection

Eagles Soar!
 
mbj-11
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:29 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:28 pm

Vernamfield is located in the Parish of Clarendon. That part of Jamaica where the Vere plain is located, is very very flat. (Possibly that's why so many good sprinters are produced by Vere Technical High).

As for potential persons to take over the board.........I have been privy to information that one Mrs. Shirley Williams is being looked at to take over the reigns. She previously was at the MPM , the body responsible for street cleaning etc and did a heck of a job, got rid of dead wood etc. She is said to be in the front running as many in JM's top brass had gotten their posts based on genetic links to the previous govt. (yuck) and were leeches feeding off the airline. Like many other boards of agencies in JA, under the previous admin, genetics and friendships played alot in appointments, hence the review of the sale of the LHR slot.
Many management staff at JM are worried as this govt has disbanded many boards and have uncovered irregularities which obtained.God's willing they are able to check even DNA of management and rid the airline of cronyism etc.
Off thread...........the new PM has also undertaken the issue of retired PM's pension payment. The previous admin on the retirement of the out going PJ Patterson (crook) increased the salary of retired PM's to that of current PM's and equal benefits for spouses, kids, widows etc. This one has pledged to reduce it to 2/3rd of the current pay with perks under review as well. With the no nonsense attitude of this new PM, who knows, JM may finally stand on its own three gears. LOL
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
bw415
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:17 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:09 am

Not to detract from the discussion on Jamaica ,which I must say I am enjoying, I recently posted three new vids on youtube... one is a LIAT landing in BGI.. and the other two are takeoff and landing in SXM. Feel free to check out my other videos if you like.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=bw415

bw415
Caribbean Airlines the warmth of the islands
 
Inbound
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 7:59 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:19 am

BWIA 777,

nice collection, but how come no Dash8s man??

an essential item for caribbean nationals in particular!!!!!
Maintain own separation with terrain!
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 2):
B6 announced SXM and POP.

Does this mean we'll see a B6 A320 swooping over Maho Bay in early 2008? I think if anyone that can compete with AA on this route; JFK-SXM, B6 is equipped to do it given their popularity amongst the 20-30-something crowd.

I think that by doing JFK-POP, they can also attract the spring break college crowd to that part of the D.R. and the region as a whole. Many will find a good deal in POP, even though the Canadians discovered it long before.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
User avatar
hummingbird
Posts: 1173
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:54 am

The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting Inbound (Reply 11):
nice collection, but how come no Dash8s man??

He doesn't have a Caribbean collection, rather a collection of BWIA and it's succesor's fleet, the JM A340 and Air Caraibes ERJ-145 (wtf?!)

All of the Caribbean staples are missing, including the DASH-8, ATR-72 ,even the Piper Aztec/Caravan/1900 would do the trick.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 12):
Does this mean we'll see a B6 A320 swooping over Maho Bay in early 2008?

...If it can make it non-stop.....

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 12):
Many will find a good deal in POP

Yeah, Canadians, Europeans and Venezuelans. Americans can care less about the North Coast.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
A388
Posts: 7191
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 14):
...If it can make it non-stop.....

Why shouldn't an A320 make JFK-SXM nonstop?

A388

[Edited 2007-10-12 22:26:48]
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 14):
...If it can make it non-stop....

Is that a longer flight than lets say, JFK/GND? hehe JFK/SXM is quite within the normal operation range of an A320 or any of the A32X aircraft for that matter. (not 100% sure of the 318)
There is something special about planes....
 
beeweel15
Posts: 902
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 8):
The Caribbean Collection

Are those hand made models. Nice collection.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 14):
...If it can make it non-stop.....

That is a hop skip and a jump for the A320 besides those pax will only be carrying a tiny bag containing their bare necessities cause if not at the end of the runway getting their rush they will be on a beach some where.
 
User avatar
hummingbird
Posts: 1173
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:52 am

With new hotels under construction within the region. I would love to see Jetblue expand in the Caribbean. Namely: MBJ, STT, BGI, GND, SLU and BZE. Lets see.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
caribbean484
Posts: 828
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 8):
So I finally found the connection to get my pics and vids off of my camera so look out for new vids from 9YBGI on youtube soon.

Nice man still building mines lol.
All ah we is one family
 
A388
Posts: 7191
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:21 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 16):
Is that a longer flight than lets say, JFK/GND? hehe JFK/SXM is quite within the normal operation range of an A320 or any of the A32X aircraft for that matter. (not 100% sure of the 318)

My point exactly. I thaught MD90fan would know this or maybe he means something else?

A388
 
skyyblue
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:37 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:27 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 14):
...If it can make it non-stop.....

I'm getting so sick of hearing this.

JFK-PSE --1,617mi--A320-- 6,904ft. runway at Mercedita Airport.

JFK-SXM-- 1,681mi--A320-- 7,152ft. runway at Princess Juliana Airport.

PSE is mostly VFR with people bringing everything AND the kitchen sink, flights are consistently FULL. No fuel stops, EVER.

SXM will be mostly tourists... that is, if we even get any now! Since B6 announced SXM, everyone is screaming it won't work  sarcastic 

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 14):
Yeah, Canadians, Europeans and Venezuelans. Americans can care less about the North Coast.

I'm sure the route planning department knew what they were doing when they selected POP. We do very well to the D.R. and I'm sure POP will not be an exception. Continental flies the route and I'm sure does just fine. 150 more seats and another option for travelers isn't a bad thing.
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:33 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 15):
Why shouldn't an A320 make JFK-SXM nonstop?

I just pullin ya leg  Silly

Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 21):
I'm sure the route planning department knew what they were doing when they selected POP. We do very well to the D.R. and I'm sure POP will not be an exception. Continental flies the route and I'm sure does just fine.

Umm no.

If AA couldn't make JFK-POP work with connections from Europe, strong ties and brand recognition in the Dominican community here and there (check out the office in Washington Heights), what makes you think B6 can? Heck, even Delta is doing horrendous on ATL-POP!

POP did horrible ex.JFK and will today. CO makes it work because they have a big hub there and a strong name.

Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 21):
150 more seats and another option for travelers isn't a bad thing.

No denying that, but 150 more seats when there is hardly any travellers is a bad idea.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
A388
Posts: 7191
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:06 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 22):
POP did horrible ex.JFK and will today. CO makes it work because they have a big hub there and a strong name.

Let's not forget JetBlue is a low cost airline with a totally different strategy that is not based on having an international hub to feed their flight. JetBlue, like all other low cost airlines, focus on a different market, the low cost market. Low cost airlines are gaining ground here in the Caribbean and I have a feeling they will become bigger here in our region.

I'm not saying JetBlue will be succesful but the fact that other airlines have not performed well on a route doesn't mean another airline, in this case JetBlue, will also perform bad. For all we know JetBlue might even do a good job. It is too early to tell now.

A388
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:34 pm

*sigh*

You're not getting the point, there is virtually no USA-POP demand, and what little is served from hubs at AA's flights from MIA and SJUand EWR (ATL is struggling).

Quoting A388 (Reply 23):

Let's not forget JetBlue is a low cost airline with a totally different strategy that is not based on having an international hub to feed their flight

They'll need that, seeing how POP's tourists come from primarily Europe and Canada.

[Edited 2007-10-13 14:37:14]

[Edited 2007-10-13 14:48:57]
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:44 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 24):
They'll need that, seeing how POP's tourists come from primarily Europe and Canada.

Canada and the U.K. especially hit POP in large numbers since they come for two and three weeks at a time respectively. They earn vacation time faster than Americans. For example, a Canadian federal and provincial employees gets 8 hours of vacation leave a pay period (every 14 days) after 10 years or less of continued service whereas U.S. employees like myself must do 15 years before attaining such an ability to accrue leave.
B6 could bring in the younger spring break college crowd however typically during March, since POP has the least expensive rates.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
BWIA 772
Topic Author
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:07 pm

Thanx guys for the compliments.

So far I have not been able to find LI 8B in the 1:400 diecast models.

MD90

Rome was not built in 1 day and the same applies for my collection. My primary focus when I started collecting was to get BW model, which I just completed with some recent purchases. Now my focus is on expanding my Caribbean collection with ALM DC9, JM 321& 727, TY 747 and TX 330 most likely arriving before the end of the year.

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 17):

No they are not custom models BW L1011 n/c is from herpa. BW A340, 737 and 707 along with the Guyana Airways TU154 are from Gemini Jets, the 2 BW 727s are from aero classics one being just BWIA titles and the other one being BWIA/Air Jamaica titles. The Caribbean Airlines, and TX ERJ145 are from Phoenix models.
Eagles Soar!
 
A388
Posts: 7191
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 25):
B6 could bring in the younger spring break college crowd however typically during March, since POP has the least expensive rates.

That is what I mean. Low cost airlines tend to go after the lower end of the markets, the 20-30 age travellers (people who can't afford very expensive tickets which is regularly the case to our region). These travelers want to go on vacation for as little money possible. If JetBlue in this case can make it work, why not. Like I said, I'm not saying JetBlue will become succesful now but let's give them the time. Time will tell.

A388
 
westindian425
Posts: 729
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 7:46 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting BWIA 772 (Thread starter):
APB for AA1818 Trintocan and all you people who have not been posting as much as you should that includes you beeweel15. To all you other posters nice work again.

Good thing I posted well enough to avoid the APB.  Smile

Quoting B747forever (Reply 5):
Will this two routes be seasonal only or a year around service???

I don't thing AA's service is seasonal. I could be wrong though.

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 13):
St Vincent to construct new airport.

It's about time!! They've been getting no love since the airport can hardly accomodate aircraft. I remember many years ago when LI had the HS-748, and it used to go there. One way in, one way out.
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
 
albird87
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:15 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:41 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 8):
So I finally found the connection to get my pics and vids off of my camera so look out for new vids from 9YBGI on youtube soon.

The Caribbean Collection



Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 26):
Now my focus is on expanding my Caribbean collection with ALM DC9, JM 321& 727, TY 747 and TX 330 most likely arriving before the end of the year.

Cool Collection. I have a small amount of 1:400 models but more focused on BA and also AA models but as you are looking at expanding your fleet to Carib models, do you know of anywhere that does a KX 1:400 737 model?? Would love to buy at least a couple of them before they lose the 732s from the fleet..
 
aa1818
Posts: 1518
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:04 pm

Here I am- would hate to get APB'd (whatever that is) again in number CTAC 22!!!

How are you guys doing? It's been a hectic few weeks- spent 2.5 weeks in Peru and Puerto Rico, then settling into my new house here at university, we don't get the internet till Thursday!!

I am suprised to see the JM/VS deal being put on hold. I thought that the new PM was a sensible man, I guess he wants to waste more of the country's borrowed money on JM!!!

Anyone found out what Caribbean Airlines plans for TB are for the immediate future, can we expect announcements or anything before year-end?

I'm pretty much cut-off from my sources for the next 2 weeks or so, but i'll certainly re-start the indside info as soon as i can!!

Cheers
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
A388
Posts: 7191
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:58 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 30):
How are you guys doing? It's been a hectic few weeks

How are you doing, wellcome come of course. Have you seen my aircraft photos I sent by email? How was Peru and Puerto Rico? Did you go there for school or vacation? I would love to go to SJU for some aircraft photography but that will be a long while before I can pay it. For now I focus on CUR only  Smile

Regards,

A388  Smile
 
beeweel15
Posts: 902
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:00 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 30):
I am suprised to see the JM/VS deal being put on hold. I thought that the new PM was a sensible man, I guess he wants to waste more of the country's borrowed money on JM!!!

I think the PM is a sensible man if he is saying to VS put your pax on the JM plane under the code share agreement. It is what I wanted for BW from the beginning.
 
mbj-11
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:29 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:54 pm

Isn't a sensible man one who reviews matters before he makes a decision? You need what is always best for you so if a review of any arrangement is not smart, I guess many people need to just sign on the dotted line.
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
A388
Posts: 7191
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:24 pm

So the deal between JM and VS is off for new negiotiations or is it just put on hold? What is the reaction of VS in all of this?

A388
 
mbj-11
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:29 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:45 pm

VS is insisting that all systems are go for the service. However the word out is that it wasn't finalized, the intention was to have it finalized. But as with everything the previous admin did, it has to come up for review as there were discrepancies. Branson hasn't said anything personally, but his PR man says they expect JM to yield as they will do justice to the route and are re-iterating their commitment to the route.
IMO though. I think the review is right at this moment, if its worth it fine.....if not deal with it. But one has to always review any transaction especially where the circumstances were controversial to begin with.
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
aa1818
Posts: 1518
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 33):
Isn't a sensible man one who reviews matters before he makes a decision? You need what is always best for you so if a review of any arrangement is not smart, I guess many people need to just sign on the dotted line.

Of course it is sensible to review, but at the end of the day it was already deemed impractical. C'mon- you need 2 A340s to run the route effectively and that means wasting one aircraft most days. That won't cut it. We're just spinning top in mud!!!!
Let VS run the route, build it up and when JM hits expansion mode then they can take it over or whatever when they can effectively manage a fleet of long haul a/c.
Optimistically I expect to see Caribbean Airlines and JM back in London within 10 years. I think the routes are being re-developed and they need to look at more long haul destinations in order to have a long haul fleet- one destination wont cut it!!

Quoting A388 (Reply 31):
How are you doing, wellcome come of course. Have you seen my aircraft photos I sent by email? How was Peru and Puerto Rico? Did you go there for school or vacation? I would love to go to SJU for some aircraft photography but that will be a long while before I can pay it. For now I focus on CUR only

I was there on vacation. It was fantastic- all my photos are finally on facebook so feel free to add me- my name etc is in my a.net profile i think if not drop me a message and i can send it to you.
I didnt get the photos/ e-mail...try sending it again....i think my e-mail address is in my profile as well!!!

Cheers
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
mbj-11
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:29 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 36):
Of course it is sensible to review, but at the end of the day it was already deemed impractical. C'mon- you need 2 A340s to run the route effectively and that means wasting one aircraft most days. That won't cut it. We're just spinning top in mud!!!!

True, in essence the two and for those who did not know ...at one point 3 A340's didn't make sense. It was a case of "if the seat are there, they will be filled", which doesn't always work. But what I want to make known is the shady way the whole transaction was conducted. The then govt. was operating as though the airline was a private entity and did not offer much transparency on the deal until the grand old announcement.
Recommendations on how to rationalize the route and the best ac for it were never entertained as the leeches who were in collusion at JM and the then govt tried to ensure that the future of the airline rested in their pockets. If one thinks about it, why can BA and VS successfully run the LHR/LGW routes to the region and CAL/JM failed so miserably? It has nothing to do with size etc. Its the underhanded dealings which make the airlines suffer so a few can remain in their posts and build illicit friendships.
Jamaicans and visitors alike preferred JM over the other carriers, its just the system that was put in place to ensure continued probs.Cutting the flights to thrice weekly and using a A330-200 which would on off days operate the much travelled JM017 route (JFK/KGN) was thrown out.Hence whatever the decision those guys made has and I say HAS to come up for review.They were shady in their dealings and their associations , thank god they are out.
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 6689
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:34 am

Well as it relates to the LHR route there was bad decisions all around. JM started using Airbus a/c, thats fine, for the LHR flights they should have used A330 not the 4 engine A340's, you need at least 3 a/c to run the route with any reliability, and on long haul flights, you have to minimize your controllable delays, question for the A340's, where were they going to run the a/c after the LHR flight was already enroute and committed, short haul trips to MIA or NYC? That should have factored into any a/c decision, its a 8 or 9 hour flight, what do you do with the spare a/c, the A330 woud have been more suitable for other routes throughout the Carib or even North America, at least within the 8-9 hour gap.

Another issue is servicing of a/c and cost of facilities in LHR, anyone here have any informed facts / rumours of how much JM or even BWIA paid for those services? Key for those would be to minimize time on the ground in LHR, arrive and leave before curfew, as for the arrival times in JM, that should be our focus, after all, our main focus should be to bring person to the Caribbean, secondary is the return time.

Regarding the VS deal, my suggestion would have been after all the money spent, lost, etc etc, re-coup as much as you can by selling the slots to the highest bidder, which in this case may have been some American Carrier, it would mean that JM may not be able to start direct flights to LHR in a while, question is, how much of a loss is that to the island in general. Would they be better served by getting funds to offset money already sunk and put the airline on a more stable foot to continue to serve and improve its remaining infrastructure?

Just had a govt. change here as well, and a number of deals - if you could call them that - are under review, already been thrown out, and are being modified, problem is that we cannot trust our politicians to make decisions in the best
interest of the country anymore.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 21):
JFK-PSE --1,617mi--



Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 21):
JFK-SXM-- 1,681mi--

These are not nautical miles.
Nonetheless, the point is valid because the 320 is capable to do these nonstop routes.
According to the Great Circle Mapper, JFK-SMX is 1461nm. That was just a reference due it wasn't based on a reliable flight plan meaning purely a distance coming from a straight line between two points.
The comfortable range of the Airbus A320-200 with CFM56s and fully packed is 2615 nm. Other 320 versions are getting better performances as shown on the A/C data section.
Just as a reference, in Central America TACA usually deploys the 320 for JFK-SJO San Jose, Costa Rica established at 1916 nm, based on Great Circle Mapper as well.
Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
BWIA 772
Topic Author
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 29):

I have not been able to find any sites that have them available. I use ebay and a couple of resellers. Check the following link.
Eagles Soar!
 
A388
Posts: 7191
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting Par13del (Reply 38):
question for the A340's, where were they going to run the a/c after the LHR flight was already enroute and committed, short haul trips to MIA or NYC? That should have factored into any a/c decision, its a 8 or 9 hour flight, what do you do with the spare a/c, the A330 woud have been more suitable for other routes throughout the Carib or even North America, at least within the 8-9 hour gap.

Having the A330 doing Caribbean runs isn't efficient. As far as I know JM was using their A343s to JFK (and YYZ) when they were not flying to LHR, in other words within the 8-9 hours gap?

A388
 
caribbean484
Posts: 828
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 37):
Recommendations on how to rationalize the route and the best ac for it were never entertained as the leeches who were in collusion at JM and the then govt tried to ensure that the future of the airline rested in their pockets. If one thinks about it, why can BA and VS successfully run the LHR/LGW routes to the region and CAL/JM failed so miserably? It has nothing to do with size etc. Its the underhanded dealings which make the airlines suffer so a few can remain in their posts and build illicit friendships.

It has to do with the fact that these airlines can deploy their a/cs on more long haul routes than BW/JM.
1) The A340 was a very bad decision more so for BWIA. Sources within the airline all confirm that the A340s were maintenance heavy, unreliable, and had large amounts of down time.

2) As many have mentioned, you need about 2 or more aircrafts to operate the route. Back in the day BWIA had 4 L1011 and the LHR route worked, but it did only because the Tristars worked on all of BWIAs routes to YYZ and JFK, so they a/cs were not down like the A340. In the case of JM, they had one A340 operating to JFK spending most of its down time there, and 2 more A340 rotating on LHR, so you have a huge problem of a/c not being utilised properly.
The difference in BA and VS is that their route network can support the utilisation of the widebodies.

3) LHR is a costly route to operate and penalties are very high for delays, and last time is checked, both JM and BWIA had very bad ontime performance on the route, so when BA and VS kept upgrading their service to LGW people just got tired and went to these other airlines.

The fact remains that in order to make LHR/LW work, both JM and CAL needs to step up their game in fleet decision, inflight entertainment and general service.
IMO the 787 is the a/c that can do it since it has the right capacity to do both US/UK routes for proper utilisation and service.
All ah we is one family
 
caribbean484
Posts: 828
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 30):
Here I am- would hate to get APB'd (whatever that is) again in number CTAC 22!!!

How are you guys doing? It's been a hectic few weeks- spent 2.5 weeks in Peru and Puerto Rico, then settling into my new house here at university, we don't get the internet till Thursday!!

Welcome back man its been a long time.
All ah we is one family
 
User avatar
hummingbird
Posts: 1173
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting Par13del (Reply 38):
Well as it relates to the LHR route there was bad decisions all around. JM started using Airbus a/c, thats fine, for the LHR flights they should have used A330 not the 4 engine A340's, you need at least 3 a/c to run the route with any reliability, and on long haul flights, you have to minimize your controllable delays, question for the A340's, where were they going to run the a/c after the LHR flight was already enroute and committed, short haul trips to MIA or NYC? That should have factored into any a/c decision, its a 8 or 9 hour flight, what do you do with the spare a/c, the A330 woud have been more suitable for other routes throughout the Carib or even North America, at least within the 8-9 hour gap.


The A330 was evaluated but was not available. The first "new" A340 came from Air Mauritius. The other two came from AC who was at the time going through reorganisation. The first 340 was the workhouse of the fleet flying 6 times a week back to back. With additional aircraft the frequencies to London increased until the implimentation of the UK visa rule. 3 class service to JFK was introduced for aircraft utilisation and cargo.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 38):
Another issue is servicing of a/c and cost of facilities in LHR, anyone here have any informed facts / rumours of how much JM or even BWIA paid for those services? Key for those would be to minimize time on the ground in LHR, arrive and leave before curfew, as for the arrival times in JM, that should be our focus, after all, our main focus should be to bring person to the Caribbean, secondary is the return time.

I can only speak for JM on this topic. LHR is slot controlled, the timing for their flight was the only time available. It meant flights would arrive midday and leave mid afternoon with a night time departure for Eastbound flights. The impact of the delays had a huge impact on their operations. Whenever there is a delay, cost would run in the $000s. In addition the cross-island flights was another maintenance issue.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 38):
Regarding the VS deal, my suggestion would have been after all the money spent, lost, etc etc, re-coup as much as you can by selling the slots to the highest bidder, which in this case may have been some American Carrier, it would mean that JM may not be able to start direct flights to LHR in a while, question is, how much of a loss is that to the island in general. Would they be better served by getting funds to offset money already sunk and put the airline on a more stable foot to continue to serve and improve its remaining infrastructure?

You are correct. The VS deal is being reviewed as speculations are the" value" is lower than its worth. BA was upset as they felt betrayed by the then administration. It was quoted as "being sold to VS was in the company's best interest as they will better develop the route." Current plans are in place to wet lease the A340s to Air India for its London-Calcutta-Dhaka-London route. But nothing has been confirmed as yet.

I hope the current administarion will make the decision that will benefit the counrry and its loyal customers.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
caribbean484
Posts: 828
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:59 am

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 40):
have not been able to find any sites that have them available. I use ebay and a couple of resellers. Check the following link.

I currently have the BWIA L1011, MD80s and 737, still looking to get the A340 and Caribbean Airlines 738, also the JM A340 and A321.
All ah we is one family
 
aa1818
Posts: 1518
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:39 pm

I'm thinking about getting a little Caribbean collection of a/c going soon- but i'd also like to get an airport model- anyone knows if there are any model of Caribbean airports out there for sale- preferably POS??!! hehe I'm think i'd go for the smaller metal models though as I don't quite a have a large bedroom to begin with and as it is it's full of my junk!!

Can anyone confirm if DL is set for TAB in December of have they backed off since the reports from ATL-POS appear poor according to some on this site??

Also I tried booking the POS-PTY flights on CM's website and I couldn't...anyone knows how much those flight are??

Cheers
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:25 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 46):
Also I tried booking the POS-PTY flights on CM's website and I couldn't...anyone knows how much those flight are??

There are 3 possible explanations why one couldn't book POS on CM website:
(1) One is trying to book before the flight starts
(2) The flight is already booked for weeks to come after start.
(3) CM don't want to allow bookings yet for reasons we don't want to discuss.
Currently CM website is showing promotional fares from POS to STI and SDQ for under USD300. I've not check the fares but would expect POS-PTY to try to match Constellation's.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
mbj-11
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:29 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:58 pm

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 44):
I hope the current administarion will make the decision that will benefit the counrry and its loyal customers

God knows it can't be worst than the other one. They tried to sell the very people of Jamaica for cronyism.
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
westindian425
Posts: 729
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 7:46 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:00 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 47):
I've not check the fares but would expect POS-PTY to try to match Constellation's.

Just the mere fact that there is another airline other than Constipation on the route will give CM a fighting chance.  Wink

How is the Boeing Maintenance program that was to start at POS coming along? I also think an Embraer program in POS would work as well. They have the space, but they need to do something about those hangars (i.e. build better ones).
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground