747400sp
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What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:51 am

When NW get there 787s, what going to happen to there A330s?
 
af773atmsp
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):

Probably fly A330s on other routes and maybe start some new routes.
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deltal1011man
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:54 am

nothing......as the A330s get old the will be replaced by 787s but that will be a long time from now(and a DC-9 will fly the crew back)
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B757capt
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:04 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 2):
nothing......as the A330s get old the will be replaced by 787s but that will be a long time from now(and a DC-9 will fly the crew back)

Awesome! Nicely put!
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ucunnn2
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:28 am

they should sell the A330s to MEXICANA
tell them to buy them...they need them
 
deltal1011man
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting Ucunnn2 (Reply 4):
they should sell the A330s to MEXICANA
tell them to buy them...they need them

why? they only have 18 787s on order(with like 50 something options but still) to replace 32 A330s?
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
ZL
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:52 am

nothing of course. NW will add new routes when they have 787. nothing at all to do with 330s.
 
KL642
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:03 am

My understanding is that the 787 fleet will be trans Pacific and the 330's will be trans Atlantic. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting KL642 (Reply 7):
My understanding is that the 787 fleet will be trans Pacific and the 330's will be trans Atlantic. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

NW hasn't really said but i would guess that the A333 fleet will be TATL and 787 and A332 will fly over the pac.
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Indy
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:39 am

I don't think the A332's and A333's will be going anywhere for a LONG time. You will see the A330's and 787's living together in harmony for many years. Some 787's will serve the super long haul routes and some will serve the long haul routes between smaller than traditional city pairs.
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dl767captain
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:48 am

In the beginning the 787s will be used for expansion, but after a while they will replace the A330s, but NW could keep the A330s for a very long time! The A330s are still very new, and NW is one of the first to get the 787s.
 
columba
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:49 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 2):
nothing......as the A330s get old the will be replaced by 787s but that will be a long time from now(and a DC-9 will fly the crew back)

I think the A330 and 787 will be replaced together with a new type and the crew will be flown back by a DC-9  Smile
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
jetjeanes
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:54 pm

why would mexicana want or need 18 787,s Most of their routes now could be serviced with a 737 or 757 at the most but an a 330????

Im sure someone will take some of them of Nw hands probably a europeon carrier,
i can see for 80 miles
 
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ER757
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:14 pm

Maybe they'll use some of the A330's on routes now flown by 753's? They could be planning for those routes to grow in pax count and the 330's could work nicely - especially on some mainland to Hawaii runs. Just a thought......
 
dutchjet
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:59 pm

The 787 is NOT intended as an A330 replacement, NW's A330 fleet is very very new and will be with the airline for many years to come.

The 787's primary mission will be new longer range routes, probably primarily across the Pacific, that will by-pass NW's DTW/MSP and NRT hubs and/or will open services from DTW and MSP to new Asian destinations. Think routes such DTW-HKG, SEA-PEK (once authorities are available), the re-launch of JFK-NRT and MSP-Osaka....as random examples. The 787s will allow the fragmentation of the existing transpacific market and opening of many new Asian routes.

The key question is whether NW will continue to need a 747-sized airplane in its fleet after the new routes are introduced? Time will tell, but do expect major changes in the routes flown by NW across the Pacific and the airplanes assigned to such routes; the 787 will be a game changer in this respect. Just as when any new type is introduced into revenue service, expect lots of changes in aircraft allocations throughout the NW system.....but I would not be surprised to see the A330 fleet being more dedicated to transatlantic operations (both A332s and A333s, with some A332s operating on to-be-launched routes across the Atlantic) and select Mainland-Hawaii services, while the new 787s will focus on NW's transpacific network.

[Edited 2007-10-14 10:07:36]
 
dl767captain
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:00 pm

What is the capacity of the 787 compared to the A330s (all in NW's configuration)?
 
sh0rtybr0wn
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:11 pm

It would be very cool to see Northwest with 68 total 787s. Such a modern and efficient fleet. They'll probably keep the A330s flying as long as possible on the shorter routes as long as the demand is there, or maybe they can sell them to generate cash for the future 787 purchases.
 
columba
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:15 pm

When you see how long they used their 747-200s, Dc-10s and Dc-9s I think the A330s will stay for awhile.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
af773atmsp
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:18 pm

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 15):

In NW configuration:
A330-200:
World Business Class-32 seats
Coach Class-211 seats
Total: 243 seats

A330-300:
World Business Class-34 seats
Coach Class-264 seats
Total: 298 seats

787-8:
World Business Class-36 seats
Coach Class-185 seats
Total: 221 seats
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:04 pm

Could definitely see the A330/787 (as well as the A350/787) option become just as (if nor more) popular than the A330/777 option before it. Wonder who'll be the first carrier to have all three concurrently? EK?

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 18):

Its not a question of if an Air France 773 will be at MSP, its just a question of when.

long as you keep in mind that "never" and "only on diversion" are quite possibly the answer to that question  Wink
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max999
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:37 pm

I think a more appropriate question to ask would be what new European routes will NW launch with the A330s once the 787's arrive. As many have stated above, the 787s will serve the Pacific so it'll push a number of A330s out to the Atlantic.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:46 pm

It'd be interesting to see if they use an Atlantic-bound A330s to open new routes from their American hubs (likely), or whether they'd have sufficient feed on the Euro end to open nonhubs up to service to AMS (not as likely, but certainly the extension of a paradigm shift!)

The USA carriers have (or plan to) link(ed) nearly every decently populated area within 3500mi of New York, with a nonstop intercon option; but the Euro carriers have been unable to respond, mostly due to EQP issues. Be interesting to see if NW takes that a step further, as they've begun with BDL.
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rwsea
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:15 pm

The 787 was purchased for its range. It can fly to Asia in a way that the A330 cannot (the longest A330 route right now is SFO-NRT). They will work together and serve different missions. The A330 will continue to support the AMS and NRT hubs, while the 787 will open up new destinations that are further from the US mainland.
 
ucunnn2
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:18 pm

Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 12):
why would mexicana want or need 18 787,s Most of their routes now could be serviced with a 737 or 757 at the most but an a 330????

no, MX was looking for A330s or A340s to expand their fleet and now being able to do long haul flights, like the one to China, and other routes...

MX doesnt operate 737 or 757 (not anymore, i heard the last 757 was almost to go) they only operate 2 767-300 . The rest of their fleet is A318, A319 & A320
 
EddieDude
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:19 pm

Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 12):
why would mexicana want or need 18 787,s Most of their routes now could be serviced with a 737 or 757 at the most but an a 330????

I think he meant A330s. It has been long speculated that MX wants some A330s in order to replace its long haul fleet composed of 2 oldish 763ERs. This would allow MX to add more long haul destinations (currently their only one is EZE) such as GRU and SCL. MX might also want to send widebody planes to JFK and LAX, and maybe to YYZ. I am not sure whether the A332 would be able to fly to Europe from MEX during the summer with a full payload, or if it could make it from TIJ to the Far East... there has also been talk that MX could go for A345s.

But back to NW:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 14):
The 787 is NOT intended as an A330 replacement, NW's A330 fleet is very very new and will be with the airline for many years to come.

I think this sums it up pretty well. Do not expect NW to do anything with its A330s other than continue operating them. They are fine aircraft, quite new, and very suitable for many of the routes that NW operates. The two fleets will coexist for many years.

I really would love to fly the NW A330 trans-oceanic. I have heard very good things about NW long-haul (I have only done MEX-DTW-LGA and EWR-DTW-MEX).
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
kaneporta1
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:09 pm

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 18):
787-8:
World Business Class-36 seats
Coach Class-185 seats
Total: 221 seats

Does that mean NW will have 2-4-2 in Y?
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brilondon
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:19 pm

I am sure that NW will continue to use the A330 on its present runs and as the 787W's come on line the A330's will be moved to routes served by the older 757-200's/300's or the 787's would directly replace the 757's since the 787 is still a few years off.
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dutchjet
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Brilondon (Reply 26):
I am sure that NW will continue to use the A330 on its present runs and as the 787W's come on line the A330's will be moved to routes served by the older 757-200's/300's or the 787's would directly replace the 757's since the 787 is still a few years off

Its very unlikely that A330s or 787s will be used on routes now flown with the 757......the vast majority of 757 routes are domestic segments that simply do not need the range or capacity of either the 787 or A330. As discussed above, look for the 787s to open new longhaul routes, primarily to Asia, and for the A330s to handle transatlantic services (including some new services across the Atlantic), a portion of mainland-Hawaii services, and a limited number of transpacific and intra-Asia routes in and out of the NRT hub.

The 753s are also very young airplanes and are money-makers for NW....they are not going anywhere; the 753s are ideal for medium haul high demand/lower yeilding routes.
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 14):
SEA-PEK (once authorities are available)

This route is already being planned by HU for next summer, so I doubt we'll see NW flying it with the 787 (though it could happen). That said, this is a good example of the kind of route NW will probably be looking at with their 787s and I wouldn't be surprised to see them open up a few new SEA-Asia routes when their 787s come online...maybe they'll bring back some old 742 routes like SEA-KIX and SEA-HKG. As has already been stated many times, NW's A330s are practically brand new and won't be replaced by the 787 fleet--those birds are for growth, not replacement.
 
brilondon
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 18):
In NW configuration:
A330-200:
World Business Class-32 seats
Coach Class-211 seats
Total: 243 seats

A330-300:
World Business Class-34 seats
Coach Class-264 seats
Total: 298 seats

787-8:
World Business Class-36 seats
Coach Class-185 seats
Total: 221 seats



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 27):
Its very unlikely that A330s or 787s will be used on routes now flown with the 757......the vast majority of 757 routes are domestic segments that simply do not need the range or capacity of either the 787 or A330. As discussed above, look for the 787s to open new longhaul routes, primarily to Asia, and for the A330s to handle transatlantic services (including some new services across the Atlantic), a portion of mainland-Hawaii services, and a limited number of transpacific and intra-Asia routes in and out of the NRT hub.

The 753s are also very young airplanes and are money-makers for NW....they are not going anywhere; the 753s are ideal for medium haul high demand/lower yeilding routes.

It Would seem that the 787 would fit both roles quite nicely. Agreed that this would not happen for quite a while since most of NW's longhaul fleet are all still quite young.
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AirbusA6
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 18):
In NW configuration:
A330-200:
World Business Class-32 seats
Coach Class-211 seats
Total: 243 seats

A330-300:
World Business Class-34 seats
Coach Class-264 seats
Total: 298 seats

787-8:
World Business Class-36 seats
Coach Class-185 seats
Total: 221 seats

Is the 787-8 really that much smaller than the A332?
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CMHARJ
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:51 pm

Is the 747 here to stay for quite some time?
 
fun2fly
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:15 pm

Pre-delay, NW was scheduled to get 8 788's in 2008, 4 in 2009, and 6 in 2010. That clearly states these are for expansion and point to point routes as NW is just finishing up receiving their last A330's.

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 30):
Is the 787-8 really that much smaller than the A332?

The real question is whether or not they'll keep the 744's. They seat approx 350 (weight restrictions) if placed on l/h service to APAC. Not passenger friendly either. I'd bet NW gets some 789 or 787-10's w/their options and eventually replace all 744's. I do find it strange that CO has exercised options every year (through 2013) and NWA has not exercised any. Does that mean NW is not going to get any additional deliveries in 2011-2013 as the 787 is sold out?
 
Flighty
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 24):

I think this sums it up pretty well. Do not expect NW to do anything with its A330s other than continue operating them. They are fine aircraft, quite new, and very suitable for many of the routes that NW operates. The two fleets will coexist for many years.

I agree. However, that does not mean it was smart.

NW gave into the pain. They could not make the D10 last until the 787. Even though, the 787 is the PERFECT replacement for the D10. If only the D10 were not QUITE so painful...

NW will indeed keep their A330s. But, as they need additional Europe capacity, I see them diverting A332s out of Asia and into Europe/Africa. Then, the 787s can concentrate on Asia services. The 787 will be best on 5000-8000mi trips, while the A330s can handle 3000-5500 very well. Those are 2 different range brackets.
 
rwsea
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:16 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 33):
see them diverting A332s out of Asia and into Europe/Africa.

Not too sure about that. The 787 is even smaller than the A332s, and on some of the current A332 routes (esp. SEA-NRT), the plane is too small already.
 
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ER757
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RE: What Will Happen To NW A330 When 787 Come

Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:22 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 34):
on some of the current A332 routes (esp. SEA-NRT), the plane is too small already.

I was surprised when this was downgraded from a 747 to an A330. I guess the 744's were all spoken for so when they retired the 742's an A330 was the only real option. I miss seeing the NW 747's at SEA, they were a fixture for so long.
Once BR replaces their combi with a 777, we'll be down to just BA and a couple freighters (CV, KE, CI).