BWI5OH
Topic Author
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:56 am

Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:08 pm

Hello all. Recently, I went online to delta.com to book a ticket from BWI-DSM. After searching through the flights and connections, most were between $450-$500 R/T for the time frame I wanted to arrive and depart. However, one option on their site was a codeshare NW flight...and the price was over $100 cheaper! I chose these flights obviously. They have DL flight numbers, but it says "Operated by NW Airlines as flight ***" Don't get me wrong, Delta is my choice carrier, but in this instance, Northwest metal will suffice due to price differences. My question is why would Delta even offer that codeshare in that market, knowing the price to be much cheaper? Does Delta get the money for the seat I purchased, or does Northwest? Why hasn't Delta lowered their ticket prices to be more competitive (and the same being said for Northwest...why haven't they raised theirs to match Delta?) I'm confused by it all and would like to know the answers from all of you airline gurus out there!! By the way, this my first ever codeshare flight, so I'm sure this will make sense in the future when it happens again!! Thanx! LONG LIVE THE WIDGET!
"It's all fun and games until the cops show up"
 
planeguy727
Posts: 1054
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:58 am

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:47 pm

It has everything to do with the number of seats in the different fare codes. The airlines in codeshares usually have seat set at fare codes and the operating carrier may sell out those less expensive seats before the codeshare airline does and vice versa. I have seen something similar with US & UA. I have booked via UA for US shuttle flights for LGA-DCA to save money (hundreds sometimes).
I want to live in an old and converted 727...
 
avek00
Posts: 3160
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:48 pm

The operating carrier gets the revenue from the ticket, with the issuing carrier retaining a nominal administrative fee.
Live life to the fullest.
 
BWI5OH
Topic Author
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:56 am

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:59 pm

I think i understand...so what you are saying is that airlines have a pre-selected number of seats for each specific market set at a certain cost. So when the "cheapest" seats are sold out on one carrier (in my case, DL) NW still had some of their cheaper seats available. Is that right? So when NW sells out all of their cheap seats, their price will rise until that next pre-determined amount of seats are sold, and so on and so forth until no more seats are available. Correct?
"It's all fun and games until the cops show up"
 
goldorak
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:44 pm

There are diffrent types of code-share agreements :
- the code-shared airline (other than the one operating the flight) has an allocated number of seats they can sell
- or both airlines (the operating carrier and the code-shared airline) can sell any number of seats until the flight is fully booked

But in these agreements, both airlines remain free to have their own pricing policies, explaining why you may have different prices from the operating carrier and the code-shared one. Also the lowest fares may be fully sold for one carrier but not for the other one (as said in reply #1)
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 4764
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:23 pm

I can't explain the anomoly, but I have certainly taken advantage of it in the past.

I've managed to save several hundred dollars:

Booked NW STL-TUS-STL via NW Airlink to MEM, COEx to IAH, CO to TUS same on return, the RT fare was over $150 less than the one connection on NW via MSP, and around $80 cheaper than CO just via IAH. Both NW and CO websites had similar offers. I booked thru CO.

STL-TPA via ORD (UAX), DCA (UA), on to TPA on US. Saved just over $100 RT than a nonstop or single airline connection. This one was odd because I booked it thru UA, the cheapest thing I found on US was nearly $100 MORE than the cheapest fare on ANYONE.

STL-BNA on NW and DL via CVG and MEM. Only saved $80 RT over the AA Connection nonstop, but my friends couldn't pick me up until after 4pm so I spent the day zig-zagging. Booked that one thru DL.

If you're a cheap bastard (like me) and have some spare time, and enjoy flying (if you don't... get off this website NOW) those multi-airline/connecting fares are wonderful!
Coast to Coast and Border to Border, Ozark Flies YOUR Way!
 
BWI5OH
Topic Author
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:56 am

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:42 pm

Thanks for all of the explanations! I had no clue airlines did this so often and how cost effective it is for us who don't mind flying roundabout ways and on different metal at that!!
"It's all fun and games until the cops show up"
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:51 am

You are far from the only one who is confused by this whole, insane "code sharing" chaos.

Every day people show up at the wrong ticket counters and are sold seats that are actaully on airlines they would prefer not to fly.

A manager at Delta tried to explain to me that the company's revenue is increased by such activities. But it all sounded like a bunch of hooie to me. A confused customer is not a good thing.

In the good old days, airlines offered JOINT FARES. Joint Fares gave the benefits of a connecting fare while fully disclosing to the customer whose airplane they would be flying. For example...Delta, New Orleans to Bermuda and return. One could fly either Delta to Atlanta to connect Delta's flight to Bermuda OR one could choose to take Eastern's flight to Atlanta and connect to Delta'a flight to Bermuda...either one for the same price. The Eastern flight to Atlanta offered a later departure from New Orleans and a tighter, move convenient connecting time in Atlanta. Everyone who was ticketed as EA to DL knew what they were getting up front.

I think the current code-share system amounts to false advertising. It is confusing to customers and employees alike.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11516
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 7):
I think the current code-share system amounts to false advertising. It is confusing to customers and employees alike.

It's not like it is difficult to determine who is operating the flights. While airports and airlines could certainly make it less confusing, it seems like anyone with half a brain can figure out who is operating their flight. Booking websites generally display the information pretty prominently.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
BWI5OH
Topic Author
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:56 am

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:32 am

I knew that I was booking a flight on NW tin, but why even give it a Delta flight number? It already has a NW flight number!! Do they do that for revenue purposes?
"It's all fun and games until the cops show up"
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4444
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 7):
I think the current code-share system amounts to false advertising. It is confusing to customers and employees alike.

The economics of code-sharing is even stranger. There is a theory that says NW doesn't offer code-share BWI-DSM fares in order to make money carrying people between those two cities; instead they do it in order to reduce available capacity on BWI-MSP and MSP-DSM in order to raise yields on the much greater O&D traffic of those monopoly routes.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:07 am

I definetly recall being a CSA for WN at STL..

Everytime people booked on ATA, they would go to Air Tran and try to check in first.

Then come over here and go where is the ATA ticket Counter?!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 7):
In the good old days, airlines offered JOINT FARES. Joint Fares gave the benefits of a connecting fare while fully disclosing to the customer whose airplane they would be flying. For example...Delta, New Orleans to Bermuda and return. One could fly either Delta to Atlanta to connect Delta's flight to Bermuda OR one could choose to take Eastern's flight to Atlanta and connect to Delta'a flight to Bermuda...either one for the same price. The Eastern flight to Atlanta offered a later departure from New Orleans and a tighter, move convenient connecting time in Atlanta. Everyone who was ticketed as EA to DL knew what they were getting up front.

Well in these bad new days it's CRS display that counts. The insane rules (imposed by DOT) give priority to on-line over interline connections. While these rules have expired the CRSs still use them. So a DL-DL connection (even if one or both are operated by OAL) takes priority over a EA/DL connection - even if the interline connection is better.

Rather than fix the model they lie to their customers.
 
LimaNiner
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:32 pm

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 7):
A confused customer is not a good thing.

Since when do US carriers care about their customers?

It's sad, but the relationship between US carriers and their customers has been adversarial for a while now: the airlines don't give a crap about their customers, and the customers aren't willing to pay for anything. The only way out of the mess is to "reformat" the industry. The legacy airlines have billions of dollars of liabilities from insane pension benefits that they promised their employees starting in the 60's and 70's. These are breaking the bank, so current employees are getting screwed -- I'm pretty sure my car mechanic makes more money than RJ pilots, not to mention flight attendants.
 
dallasnewark
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:33 pm

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 13):
These are breaking the bank, so current employees are getting screwed -- I'm pretty sure my car mechanic makes more money than RJ pilots, not to mention flight attendants.

This is as easy as the law of supply and demand. I never understood why flight attendants want high salary, what special skills are required to be a flight attendant rather than administrative assistant?

I know I would get flamed for that, but the truth in this case does hurt
B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2622
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:07 am

Under some agreements, the airlines must sell differently.
Take the Australia-South Africa route, where, Qf and SA codeshare.

because they own almost 70% of the market, a restriction of the codeshare agreement is that they must price independantly (anti collusion).

the codeshare agreement is also a blocked space arrangement, where blocks of seats are purchased at a set price..

So say QF has 25 seats of its allocated 80 to sell on SA.
Unless it sells them, it still pays SA for them (no handback).
In this case, QF may consider dropping its fares below what SA charge..
 
BCA2005
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:56 am

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:39 pm

I know AI do this on their codeshares with TG and MH on BKK-BOM-BKK and KUL-BOM-KUL respectively. AI is often alot cheaper purchased as a codeshare compared to buying the ticket through TG or MH.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19056
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Codeshare Flights- Why A Price Difference?

Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 4):
But in these agreements, both airlines remain free to have their own pricing policies, explaining why you may have different prices from the operating carrier and the code-shared one. Also the lowest fares may be fully sold for one carrier but not for the other one (as said in reply #1)

And if DL's and NW's fares were always identical on that flight, it would imply that they were discussing and coordinating the fares which would be totally illegal since DL and NW do not have antitrust immunity. When booking any flights where codesharing is involved it's always best to check the fares on each carrier as there will often be major differences, especially on longhaul international routes.

For example, you can sometimes travel in business class on Virgin Atlantic between LHR and the USA at much lower fares if you book CO's codeshare flight numbers. Just did a quick check of CO and VS fares in J class LAX-LHR departing October 24 and returning October 31, and the CO fare is over $1000 lower than the VS fare for travel in the same "Upper Class" seat on the VS-operated flights in both directions. I've often seen much bigger differences.