LIPZ
Topic Author
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DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:29 am

According to Thomson Financial, AF-KL-DL will be announcing ORY-JFK service soon operated by DL with new TATL 757s.


Air France-KLM and Delta Airlines plan to launch a daily flight between Paris Orly and New York in summer 2008, La Tribune reported, without naming its sources.

Delta would take advantage of Air France-KLM's slots at the airport and operate a two-class Boeing 757 on the route, the paper said.

The paper said the two airlines would announce the move tomorrow, as part of a presentation of a wide-ranging agreement.


http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?type=afxn...0&subject=companies&action=article
 
foxxray
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:55 am

Interesting news !

So if this information is true, ORY will get 3 daily flights to NYC next year (2 with l'Avion to EWR and one with DL to JFK).
 
panamair
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:58 am

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 1):
So if this information is true, ORY will get 3 daily flights to NYC next year (2 with l'Avion to EWR and one with DL to JFK).

You'll probably see a 4th one soon - BA with Project "Lauren" ....which is precisely, I believe, the reason that AF/DL are launching ORY-JFK.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:03 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 2):
You'll probably see a 4th one soon - BA with Project "Lauren" ....which is precisely, I believe, the reason that AF/DL are launching ORY-JFK.

And sometime down the road then, it will be two again once L'Avion finds it hard to compete with DL and BA...
 
foxxray
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
And sometime down the road then, it will be two again once L'Avion finds it hard to compete with DL and BA...

Yes, presently l'Avion has no competitor at ORY so it will be hard for them, but they don't offer the same product than DL or BA so let's hope it will be ok for l'Avion !
 
varig md-11
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:38 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 2):
You'll probably see a 4th one soon - BA with Project "Lauren"

where BA is going to take the slots from? DL can use an AF slot which are plenty at ORY
as far as I know BA is based at CDG and I never heard BA would be given new slots at ORY
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DAL767400ER
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:51 pm

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 5):
where BA is going to take the slots from? DL can use an AF slot which are plenty at ORY
as far as I know BA is based at CDG and I never heard BA would be given new slots at ORY

Perhaps the same way DL gets slots at LHR, through one of their alliance or franchise partners? Granted, I don't know which oneworld carriers or BA partners serve ORY, but that might be an option.
 
TYCOON
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:03 pm

Only OneWorld partner at ORY is IB, and a pretty frequent operator of flights out of ORY. We could imagine IB shifting some of their flights to CDG (where they already are) and freeing up some frequencies for BA. Clickair could shift their flights to CDG for example.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:43 pm

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 7):
Only OneWorld partner at ORY is IB, and a pretty frequent operator of flights out of ORY. We could imagine IB shifting some of their flights to CDG (where they already are) and freeing up some frequencies for BA

Or AA! For several years, AA was the only US carrier serving ORY (all the other airlines had moved to CDG). I can't see AA letting DL have a competitive advantage by flying into ORY instead of CDG, and I wouldn't be surprised if AA tries to move back.
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
foxxray
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:55 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 8):
Or AA! For several years, AA was the only US carrier serving ORY (all the other airlines had moved to CDG). I can't see AA letting DL have a competitive advantage by flying into ORY instead of CDG, and I wouldn't be surprised if AA tries to move back.

AA has no flights from ORY, so the only OneWorld partner who can provide slots to BA is IB...

I don't think that AA wants to move back to ORY but they will maybe start to reopen somes routes in the future !
 
TYCOON
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:05 pm

OneWorld is starting to open up a mini-hub of sorts at Terminal 2A+2B at CDG. AA, BA, CX, RJ and MA all operate from these two terminals (which are opposite each other and connected by an underground pathway). IB and AY operate out of 2D (next to 2B) and JL operates out of 2F a bit further away. With the coming withdrawal of AF completely from 2A + 2B, I could see those becoming OneWorld terminals - with perhaps AY, IB and JL moving there. Only issue for AY and JL is their ongoing codeshare agreements with AF.
So I don't really see AA moving back to ORY.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:10 pm

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 4):
but they don't offer the same product than DL or BA so let's hope it will be ok for l'Avion !

If BA and/or DL start NYC/ORY, it's au revoir l'avion even sooner than they would otherwise peter out on their own.

[Edited 2007-10-16 07:11:04]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
papatango
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:38 pm

We just might see JFK-LYS announced tomorrow also.
 
dalb777
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:07 pm

What are the advantages of ORY over CDG?
Geaux Tigers! Geaux Hornets! Geaux Saints! WHO DAT!!!
 
icarus75
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:12 pm

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 13):
What are the advantages of ORY over CDG?

ORY is closer from Paris then CDG.
CDG - Paris is 25km
ORY - Paris is 15km

Is quicker to reach ORY than CDG at rush hours.

At ORY, you have a lot of connections to french towns that are not served from CDG.
Flying is amazing!
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:25 pm

Most of IB/XG flights to Paris are to ORY instead of CDG, as said before ORY is much more convenient for O&D traffic and one would assume that most of OW members going into/out of Paris are O&D since connecting options are very limited.

IMO, it makes very good sense for OW european carriers (IB,AY,BA,MA) to build a mini hub at ORY instead of CDG which is a SKY hub.
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MAH4546
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:50 pm

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 9):
I don't think that AA wants to move back to ORY but they will maybe start to reopen somes routes in the future !

AA would absolutely love to move back to Orly, but it would be an expensive move and AA doesn't want to spend the money to do so.
a.
 
TYCOON
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:56 pm

OW carriers would never get the frequencies necessary to build a mini-hub at ORY. Star Alliance has created a mini-hub at CDG 1, I could see OW trying to replicate if successful.
The key thing to remember for all alliances, not just Skyteam, is that CDG still represents one of the few major large European airports with considerable available capacity. CDG, to my knowledge, is not slot restricted.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:04 pm

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 17):
Star Alliance has created a mini-hub at CDG 1, I could see OW trying to replicate if successful.

Why would OW try to build a mini hub at CDG, when MAD (which isn't slot restricted) is just 650 miles away, and LHR (which is slot restricted, but where the OW carriers already have a huge presence) is just 250 miles away?
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
LY777
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:52 pm

Will these 757s have PTVs in Y?
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icna05e
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:58 pm

Quoting Papatango (Reply 12):
We just might see JFK-LYS announced tomorrow also.

Now THAT would be sweet.  bouncy 

(wishful thinking) Looking forward for TLS, BOD, or MRS
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:10 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 19):
Will these 757s have PTVs in Y?

Yes.

filler
filler
 
Skyteam10001
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:24 pm

The schedule is already (partially) loaded on delta.com

DL 54 JFK 1035pm ORY 1230pm Boeing757
DL 53 ORY 255pm JFK 500pm Boeing 757

I tried a few days in June 08 and it looks like the flight is not loaded everyday yet.

cheers
 
LIPZ
Topic Author
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:37 pm

DL begins Lyon-JFK daily service as well in 2008, schedule as follow :

DL 174 JFK 0430pm LYS 0705am Boeing757
DL 175 LYS 0930am JFK 1215pm Boeing757
 
Skyteam10001
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:40 pm

after a quick check, they are going head-to-head with L'Avion timing on the ORY-NYC run (L'Avion's flight leaves ORY at 1.40pm) however on the way back, L'Avion flight leaves EWR at 7.05pm

I don't get why DL chose such a late departure for the ORY flight from JFK. It gets you in Paris after noon. I would have assumed the flight to arrive in Paris around 8am to give ppl a full day in Paris.

The Lyon schedule (which I just saw posted) seems to work much better IMO

A.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:44 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
AA would absolutely love to move back to Orly, but it would be an expensive move and AA doesn't want to spend the money to do so.

What benefit is there at ORY? Any carrier that moves to ORY from CDG can kiss their connections to just about anywhere other than France goodbye.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Skyteam10001
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:48 pm

ORY is closer and a bit easier to access from Paris. It is also a smaller airport so it is much easier to navigate in my opinion. I now live and work in the north of Paris so CDG is a better option for me anyway, but for a lot of ppl leaving in Paris or in the southern suburbs, it can be a great alternative.

So on an O&D pov, a move could make sense... if you can get the slots obviously.
 
foxxray
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:00 pm

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 23):
DL begins Lyon-JFK daily service as well in 2008, schedule as follow :

DL 174 JFK 0430pm LYS 0705am Boeing757
DL 175 LYS 0930am JFK 1215pm Boeing757

Good news, it will be nice to see DL at LYS again (and at ORY too) !
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:37 pm

Quoting Skyteam10001 (Reply 22):

DL 54 JFK 1035pm ORY 1230pm Boeing757
DL 53 ORY 255pm JFK 500pm Boeing 757



Quoting LIPZ (Reply 23):

DL 174 JFK 0430pm LYS 0705am Boeing757
DL 175 LYS 0930am JFK 1215pm Boeing757

I'm surprised by the duration of the stops in France. 2:25h each in both ORY and LYS. You'd think they could easily turn the 757 in 1:30h and rather keep it at JFK for longer, say for minor maintenance.
 
Evan767
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:51 pm

Looks like there'll be a daylight flight to Heathrow.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
toltommy
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:28 pm

Not to nitpick (well maybe a little), but this is a reintroduction of DL service JFK-ORY. All of DL's service to Paris was via ORY until after the PA acquisition. DL purchased and operated rights to fly ORY-TLV as well. I flew ORY-JFK on an L1011 in 1992. Caterers were on strike that day.....
 
LawnDart
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 29):
Looks like there'll be a daylight flight to Heathrow.

Two daily round-trip JFK-LHR and one daily round-trip ATL-LHR loaded at Delta.com

Also, JFK-LYS loaded...
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:26 pm

Interesting to see that DL is planning on doing 4x daily service on JFK-London next year; the 2 LGW non-stops are still available as well as the 2 new LHR flights.
 
toltommy
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting Lawndart (Reply 31):
Two daily round-trip JFK-LHR and one daily round-trip ATL-LHR loaded at Delta.com

Interesting, DL is already looking for a fare premium into LHR. I plugged in dates in May 08 for flights JFK-LHR, and JFK-LGW. LGW is $100 less for a coach seat on the same dates.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting Skyteam10001 (Reply 26):
ORY is closer and a bit easier to access from Paris. It is also a smaller airport so it is much easier to navigate in my opinion.

I don't think it's a very compelling reason seeing as CDG has pretty efficient train service to Paris. CDG isn't the world's favorite airport but I remember ORY being a dump comparatively. Have they improved it in the last few years?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
worldtraveler
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 30):
I flew ORY-JFK on an L1011 in 1992. Caterers were on strike that day.....

me too.... but that was probably another strike.  Smile

The increased turn times and late dept from JFK are probably dictated by optimizing its schedule at JFK because of congestion and its commitment to reduce flights during peak hours. Ironic but a US airport is now dictating transatlantic schedules instead of a European airport as it has been for years.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting Skyteam10001 (Reply 22):
The schedule is already (partially) loaded on delta.com

DL 54 JFK 1035pm ORY 1230pm Boeing757
DL 53 ORY 255pm JFK 500pm Boeing 757

Convenient for those getting off work in NYC, but not convenient for going straight to work in Paris... Yields might be depressed on that one.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 18):
Why would OW try to build a mini hub at CDG, when MAD (which isn't slot restricted) is just 650 miles away, and LHR (which is slot restricted, but where the OW carriers already have a huge presence) is just 250 miles away?

Possibly because Paris is more centrally located for intra-Europe connections.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
elmothehobo
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 18):

Both of these airports are on Europe's periphery. CDG, along with FRA, ZRH, BRU. AMS, etc... are more convenient for connection between European countries.
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
What benefit is there at ORY? Any carrier that moves to ORY from CDG can kiss their connections to just about anywhere other than France goodbye.

It's a matter of alliance setup, if you're a OW member flying out of the US to a third country in Europe (not France) on AA, why would you connect at CDG instead of MAD or LHR where you have plenty of options to go anywhere in Europe on BA/IB.

On these days not many people connect between alliances when there is the choice to stay within your alliance and earn your miles all the way to your final destination.

Quoting Skyteam10001 (Reply 24):
I don't get why DL chose such a late departure for the ORY flight from JFK. It gets you in Paris after noon. I would have assumed the flight to arrive in Paris around 8am to give ppl a full day in Paris.



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 36):
Convenient for those getting off work in NYC, but not convenient for going straight to work in Paris... Yields might be depressed on that one.

I really admire people who can get to a tat'l flight at 1500 or 1600 US EDT, land at 0600 or 0700 local time in Europe (midnight in your body clock) and have energy enough to go to work. I've tried it and doesn't work for my body, even in J.

IMO, late evening trasatlantic departures eastbound are as good as it gets since you take advantage of a full day with full energy before departure and it's much easier to get good sleep on the flight so your body is much fresh upon arrival
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varig md-11
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
I don't think it's a very compelling reason seeing as CDG has pretty efficient train service to Paris. CDG isn't the world's favorite airport but I remember ORY being a dump comparatively. Have they improved it in the last few years?

I agree
I don't know why this ORY love story...only for biz people working in Western Paris, ORY might have an advantage in order to avoid congestion driving north to CDG

RER train to CDG from downtown Paris is something like 1/2 hour and it's the same to ORY
for ORY you must transfer to VAL automatic metro at Antony which I find uninteresting and cumbersome while RER arrives directly in CDG 2

ORY west is OK since they facelifted it, and it offers tremendous connections with France (metropolitan and overseas)
ORY south is still something inherited from the 60's.....

I am a CDG guy anyhow  Wink
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icna05e
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:18 pm

When are they starting those routes exactly? Is it may 08?

I agree with upperdeckfan, late evening flight US->Europe are the best for me (not that I have taken that many). Plus JFK is much calmer at that time! It's like you own the airport. But there might be a reason for that, people seem to prefer late afternnon flights.
 
TYCOON
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:56 pm

Having an additional hub operation for an alliance is certainly interesting as it allows your clients additional connection possibilities. If a number of alliance carriers all fly to the same airport, use the same terminal and have the frequencies, it would be foolish not to exploit it.
Skyteam will likely develop a mini-hub at LHR (close to CDG and AMS - two Skyteam mega-hubs). Star Alliance has a mini-hub operating in CDG despite having LHR, ZRH, MUC and FRA a few hundred kilometres away.
I don't see them as mutually exclusive and OneWorld is sadly lacking a major centrally located hub on the European continent that Skyteam and StarAlliance both have. MAD is too peripheral.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:10 pm

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 38):
It's a matter of alliance setup, if you're a OW member flying out of the US to a third country in Europe (not France) on AA, why would you connect at CDG instead of MAD or LHR where you have plenty of options to go anywhere in Europe on BA/IB.

AF serves a lot more unique destinations out of CDG than IB or BA at their respective hubs, particularly in Africa.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Skyteam10001
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:23 pm

I just realised (and hope I am not the only one) that the JFK-ORY flight is not daily but only 4pw (from the press release). That is very weird ! Why would they do that ? Aircraft availability ?
 
Skyteam10001
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:28 pm

I should have read the press release entirely before getting all freaked out. It says at the very bottom in small characters that the flight will become daily on 7/1

sorry !
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:49 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 42):
AF serves a lot more unique destinations out of CDG than IB or BA at their respective hubs, particularly in Africa.

If you are going to one of this unique destinations, don't you think it would make more sense to fly SKY (DL/NW/CO/AF) out of the US to CDG thus avoiding to split the mileage between 2 different alliances?

BTW, I doubt the driving force for BA launching JFK-CDG instead of JFK-ORY is to give their US customers the chance to connect into AF network to Africa.
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panamair
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:53 pm

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 45):
I doubt the driving force for BA launching JFK-CDG instead of JFK-ORY

Is it actually confirmed that BA is going to CDG instead of ORY? I know the thread says CDG-JFK for BA but if you click on the linked article, there's no mention of either CDG or ORY...it just says Paris...
 
goldorak
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:41 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 46):
Is it actually confirmed that BA is going to CDG instead of ORY? I know the thread says CDG-JFK for BA but if you click on the linked article, there's no mention of either CDG or ORY...it just says Paris...

I think it will be very hard for BA (or impossible) to have slots at ORY.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:49 pm

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 45):
BTW, I doubt the driving force for BA launching JFK-CDG instead of JFK-ORY is to give their US customers the chance to connect into AF network to Africa.

Of course...it's pure revenge for AF's LHR incursion.

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 45):
If you are going to one of this unique destinations, don't you think it would make more sense to fly SKY (DL/NW/CO/AF) out of the US to CDG thus avoiding to split the mileage between 2 different alliances?

It would, but if you're a oneworld or star mileage member, you want to fly them as far as they can get you before switching outside of the network I'd think.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
worldtraveler
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RE: DL To Launch ORY-JFK In 2008

Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting Skyteam10001 (Reply 43):
I just realised (and hope I am not the only one) that the JFK-ORY flight is not daily but only 4pw (from the press release). That is very weird ! Why would they do that ? Aircraft availability ?

I believe the press release says it will go to daily as of July 1.

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