BRxxx
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EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:12 pm

They announced it a few weeks ago.
They plan to use 777-300ER on this route non-stop to EWR but with 1 stop at ANC on the way back to TPE due to head winds. Because of this they will cancel the EWR via Seattle which therefore means that it is now split into 2 different routes.
My question is why did they convert their orders of 777-200LR to 777-300ER when they could have used it on this flight so they wouldn't have to have a fuel stop??
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seabosdca
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:44 pm

Something doesn't make sense here. EWR-TPE is under 7000 nm. JFK-HKG is longer, and CX flies that route nonstop with A340-600 equipment. EWR-TPE nonstop should be well within the reach of a 777-300ER. The only thing I can imagine is that BR feels that it's more profitable to stop in ANC with a belly full of cargo than to take payload restrictions. Too bad for the pax.
 
BRxxx
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:25 pm

How could it be more profitable to stop in ANC? I know for fact that a lot of fuel gets burnt off while take-off.
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seabosdca
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:37 pm

It could be more profitable for BR to make the stop because BR could carry more cargo. I don't have access to exact figures, but it's certain that a 777-300ER on a 7000nm trip (or effectively longer, given the headwinds) will not be able to carry much cargo. With the stop in ANC, BR could load the 777-300ER up to max payload. Part of the attraction of the 777-300ER (and the A340-600, for that matter) for airlines is the aircraft's huge belly capacity.

Also, ultra-long-range flights are not very fuel-efficient per pound-mile, even if they burn less total fuel. In the first portion of a ULR flight, you're burning an awful lot of fuel just to carry fuel, rather than revenue-generating cargo or pax. For just one example, this is one reason that QF has not yet found an economically feasible way to fly SYD-LHR nonstop, despite the fact that a premium-configured 777-200LR with 3 aux tanks can almost always cover the distance.
 
BRxxx
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:42 pm

Thanks for clarifying. Big grin
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USADreamliner
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:46 pm

They will start Cargo flights to Houston beginning Nov. 1. The new service will be routed through Anchorage and Chicago, twice a week with a 747-400F.
 
Mason
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:52 pm

What does this mean for the TPE-SEA leg? Will it stay a 747, or switch to a 773, as rumored? Any frequency changes?
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:28 pm

Quoting BRxxx (Thread starter):
They plan to use 777-300ER on this route non-stop to EWR but with 1 stop at ANC on the way back to TPE due to head winds

Hopefully it will arrive and depart EWR during daylight hours so we can SEE it.  sun 
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:52 pm

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 7):

Unfortunately the departure time is still in the dark hours and the arrival time is around 8pm. In the summer it might be possible to see it in light.
No Vueling No Party
 
roseflyer
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:52 pm

I also wonder how SEA will be affected. Maybe the SEA flight will leave at a more sane hour as well. It has to be retimed without the EWR continuation.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:58 pm

From EVAair.com:

"TAIPEI, TAIWAN (28 Sept., 2007) -- EVA Air is putting a new Boeing 777-300ER in service on its Taipei – New York route on 4 Dec., 2007. With the equipment change, EVA will fly to New York nonstop and reduce flight time for its three weekly flights to 14 hours, shaving approximately four hours off the trip and eliminating a stop in Seattle. Return flights from New York to Taipei will make a one-hour, fifteen-minute refueling stop in Anchorage because of strong head winds.....

......EVA’s Taipei – New York flight BR32 will leave Taipei’s Taoyuan International Airport on Monday, Thursday and Saturday at 6:50 pm and arrive at Newark International Airport at 8:10 pm the same day. Return flight BR31 departs New York the same evening 9:50 pm and arrives in Taipei two days later at 6:10 am."



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 9):
I also wonder how SEA will be affected. Maybe the SEA flight will leave at a more sane hour as well. It has to be retimed without the EWR continuation.

"EVA will also introduce B777-300ERs on its four weekly Taipei – Seattle flights. The equipment upgrades on the two routes are not only good economic moves for the airline but also will enhance service quality for passengers......

........EVA’s Taipei – Seattle flight BR26 will take off from Taoyuan International Airport on Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday and land in Seattle at 5:35 pm the same day. Return flight BR25 departs Seattle at 1:30 am the following day and gets into Taipei at 6:40 am."


http://www.evaair.com/html/b2c/english/eva/news/2007/news200709280003

[Edited 2007-10-16 12:01:33]
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
TWA902fly
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:48 pm

1 hour and 40 minute turn in EWR?

'902
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roseflyer
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:50 pm

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 10):
EVA’s Taipei – Seattle flight BR26 will take off from Taoyuan International Airport on Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday and land in Seattle at 5:35 pm the same day. Return flight BR25 departs Seattle at 1:30 am the following day and gets into Taipei at 6:40 am."

That's a lot of time on the ground in SEA.

Those timings are pretty close to what China Airlines does so I guess that is what you have to deal with when flying to TPE unlike SEL and NRT from SEA, but at least China Airlines has a late morning arrival and departs a little earlier in the wee hours of the morning.

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 10):
EVA’s Taipei – New York flight BR32 will leave Taipei’s Taoyuan International Airport on Monday, Thursday and Saturday at 6:50 pm and arrive at Newark International Airport at 8:10 pm the same day. Return flight BR31 departs New York the same evening 9:50 pm and arrives in Taipei two days later at 6:10 am."

1 hour and 40 minutes is a reasonably tight turn in EWR.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Mason
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:45 am

Well, finally the 773ER gets into SEA. As this has been rumored for some time, I am not surprised. I can't believe the return to TPE still departs in the early AM!

This brings me to another interesting point: during peak times at the S terminal in SEA, how many international gates remain open? With 2x BA, NW, AF, SAS, OZ, KE, and CI, how many open gates are there betwen 1 and 3 PM?
 
Carpethead
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 1):
Something doesn't make sense here. EWR-TPE is under 7000 nm. JFK-HKG is longer, and CX flies that route nonstop with A340-600 equipment. EWR-TPE nonstop should be well within the reach of a 777-300ER

Hint is EVA Air, as a Taiwanese carrier, cannot overfly PRC while CX can.
 
Econojetter
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:40 am

To me, this change lessens the appeal of BR's EWR service as it reduces the frequency to only 3x weekly. The refueling stop on the eastbound BR32, while adding time to the journey, was not much of a problem. It's the stop (at around 2-3AM) on the westbound BR31 that I find annoying; yet this stop needs to remain as BR wants to fill up on cargo.
 
trex8
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 14):
Hint is EVA Air, as a Taiwanese carrier, cannot overfly PRC while CX can.

both BR and CI have been overflying the PRC on flights to Europe for at least 2 years if not longer.
 
bartond
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:33 pm

Does EVA have any other plans for US expansion in the next few years? I really don't hear much about them except for a rumor here and there, but I am curious as to whether or not they want more destinations here in the States. Does anybody know anything?
 
roseflyer
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:52 pm

Quoting Bartond (Reply 17):
Does EVA have any other plans for US expansion in the next few years? I really don't hear much about them except for a rumor here and there, but I am curious as to whether or not they want more destinations here in the States. Does anybody know anything?

I kind of doubt they will be going after other destinations. Frequencies might be increased to destinations they already serve however. Most Asian carriers are only intrested in LAX, SFO, SEA and JFK/EWR. The west coast is where there is far more business and trade going on with Asia. Furthermore the populations of expatriats are much larger on the west coast, which fills up economy seats and fosters stronger business relationships to attempt to fill up the front cabin. Now of course there are exceptions with carriers involved heavily in an alliance like NH or KE.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Kohflot
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:55 pm

It would be interesting to eventually see BR try another tag from SEA. LAS? DEN? MIA?
Ask why..
 
Carpethead
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 16):
both BR and CI have been overflying the PRC on flights to Europe for at least 2 years if not longer.

This is news to me. I know about the Chinese New Year charter flights.
BR & CI have little or no non-stops to Europe, with most stopping in BKK. BR's few weekly 74E TPE-CDG flight the only exception?
Perhaps someone from Taiwan or PRC can shed some light on this subject.
 
BRxxx
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:01 am

Now thats a tight schedule for BR 777-300ER since they only have 7 of them and only 8 by December!

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 20):
This is news to me. I know about the Chinese New Year charter flights.
BR & CI have little or no non-stops to Europe, with most stopping in BKK. BR's few weekly 74E TPE-CDG flight the only exception?
Perhaps someone from Taiwan or PRC can shed some light on this subject.

I have a friend that recently flew from FRA to TPE on CI and he said that they went through China's airspace. However, I'm not sure if it applies for other airlines.
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BreninTW
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:08 am

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 14):
Hint is EVA Air, as a Taiwanese carrier, cannot overfly PRC while CX can

Both BR and CI are able to fly over PRC airspace. The reason most Europe flights stop in BKK is because BKK is where the passengers go to ... both from Europe and Taiwan.

I'm not sure what BR's ETOPS rating is -- 120 or 180 -- that might be a reason why TPE - EWR doesn't head over the pole.
 
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zeke
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 20):
BR & CI have little or no non-stops to Europe, with most stopping in BKK. BR's few weekly 74E TPE-CDG flight the only exception?

Pretty sure even the TPE-BKK, and other flights to Asian ports, including the middle east go via Hong Kong and Sanya airspace, which is China.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 10):

........EVA’s Taipei – Seattle flight BR26 will take off from Taoyuan International Airport on Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday and land in Seattle at 5:35 pm the same day. Return flight BR25 departs Seattle at 1:30 am the following day and gets into Taipei at 6:40 am."

That's a lot of ground time in Seattle. What gives?

Quoting Mason (Reply 13):
This brings me to another interesting point: during peak times at the S terminal in SEA, how many international gates remain open? With 2x BA, NW, AF, SAS, OZ, KE, and CI, how many open gates are there betwen 1 and 3 PM?

Those flights all arrive in different banks from the early to mid morning (the NRT, CI TPE and ICN flights) into the early-late afternoon/early evening (AMS, CDG, LHR, CPH, BR TPE). I suppose throwing NW's new MSP/HNL flights with the A330s into the mix might make things a bit crowded, but I don't think space is going to be at a premium in S anytime soon.

It'll be nice to see the 773ER at SEA, but I'll miss seeing that Eva 744 coming in over the city from my bedroom window late at night...they're one of the few carriers coming in at night that turn on their logo lights!
 
trex8
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:22 am

http://taiwanjournal.nat.gov.tw/ct.asp?xItem=21505&CtNode=118

Right now, flights leaving Taiwan for Europe, South Asia and the Middle East must avoid Chinese airspace and fly roundabout routes, either north over Russia or far to the south. China Airlines said its flights to Frankfurt, Abu Dhabi, New Delhi and Hanoi would be significantly shorter under the new scheme, with some flight times cut in half.
 
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BreninTW
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 25):
must avoid Chinese airspace

Trex, the publication date of that article is 26 August, 2005. Reports in September 2005 mentioned that the necessary permission had been obtained: http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/2005/09/03/67972/CAL,-three.htm

Bren
 
trex8
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:55 am

Bren, I was trying to clarify the flights affected, not that its a new thing, like I said in post 16, its been happening for 2 years.

Zeke or someone, when BR said it would stop TPE-CDG , one reason given was too expensive overflights of Russia, would this have been a more northerly routing? Or does that include the central asian parts of the CIS?
 
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zeke
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 27):

Zeke or someone, when BR said it would stop TPE-CDG , one reason given was too expensive overflights of Russia, would this have been a more northerly routing? Or does that include the central asian parts of the CIS?

The only real expensive airspace I know of is just west of St Petersburg, we route around that. Going via China/Mongolia/Russia, or China/Kazakhstan/Russia is much of a muchness, we have aircraft going over both routes.

Maybe the expense is in upgrading the oxygen system to get over the high terrain.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
Carpethead
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:42 am

Thanks for the update, all.
If they are now flying over PRC, would it seem more reasonable to have non-stop flights to key European destinations?
Or is there some limit to number of flights.
 
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BreninTW
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:49 am

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 29):
would it seem more reasonable to have non-stop flights to key European destinations

There's not the Taiwan - Europe traffic to justify frequent non-stop flights. A substantial portion of the traffic is Europe - BKK or BKK - TPE.
 
BRxxx
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:04 pm

Czech Republic has given green light for CI and BR to operate 14 flights weekly into Prague. Maybe if they were operate direct flight, they might use PRC airspace?
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trex8
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RE: EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop

Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:17 pm

Quoting BRxxx (Reply 31):
Czech Republic has given green light for CI and BR to operate 14 flights weekly into Prague. Maybe if they were operate direct flight, they might use PRC airspace?

CIs TPE-AUH-VIE/TPE-FRA already go through PRC so its quite likely

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