7e72004
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Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:59 am

With all of the security measures in place i have a question about a flight i took about 10 days ago from IND-ATL-IAD. I checked into IND about 3.5 hours early and took the 4:46 flight to ATL. I then connected to the 9:15pm flight to IAD. When i arrived at IAD, i went down to the baggage claim. We got down there before they started the conveyor belt. I waited until all of the bags were picked up. I became a little upset because i thought my bag was lost. I went to the baggage claim office for AirTran and my bag was already there. There was no indication that it came in on an earlier flight but did.

Question-How did my bag go on without me? I thought they are supposed to make sure the person with the bag is on the plane.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:10 am

Bags do not have to be matched on domestic flights. Without IROPS, it's not terribly common for bags to travel on a different flight from the passenger, but it does happen. Do note that bags will almost always fly the same route as a passenger even if there is an easier way. If you had been flying IND-DTW-DCA, for example, NW almost certainly would not have put your bags on one of the direct flights (although at DTW, NW loves to put connecting bags on an earlier outbound flight if possible; I think the theory is that there is less of a chance of them getting misplaced if they spend less time at the hub).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ltbewr
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:16 am

I believe this may have happened to me on Super Bowl Sunday in 2003. I had checked in a the counter about 3 hours early for a scheduled NW flight DTW-LGA hoping I might get on an earlier flight. My flight went off ok, and when I went to pick my bag as the claim area, it wasn't on the belt after it appeared all of the bags were there. I look around and find my bag on the side, where oversized or some soft bags are put. I believe it had been tagged with the earlier flight. Of course an orphan bag in LGA could have been stolen and that did concern me more important is that my bag showed up. I was able to get home on time to see the entire game.
 
airbazar
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
Bags do not have to be matched on domestic flights.

Sadly that is correct. The TSA is too busy pulling nail clippers from grandma's purse to worry about little things like matching luggage to passengers on the flights. And then people expect us to take airline security seriously.
 
Boston92
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:26 am

Two stories:

1. Flew from LAX-DEN-DFW-ORD-MSP... I got to MSP at 9:00pm, my bag got there just after 1:00pm.

2. A few weeks ago, I travelled SBA-DEN and back on the same day. Somehow, my bag was checked "all the way through to SBA". It was waiting when I returned (It never left).

[Edited 2007-10-16 18:26:30]
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SkyexRamper
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:38 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 3):
Sadly that is correct. The TSA is too busy pulling nail clippers from grandma's purse to worry about little things like matching luggage to passengers on the flights. And then people expect us to take airline security seriously.

It is not up to TSA is decide what bags get load onto an airline's airplanes, it is all up to the airline. At Midwest/Skyway we don't send a bag unless the person is confirmed onboard. The only exception is if the bag misses the flight but the passengers were actually on the that flight. Then we rush the bags because the person is there. We also rush other airline bags because the person is confirmed in that city.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
varigb707
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Thread starter):
Question-How did my bag go on without me? I thought they are supposed to make sure the person with the bag is on the plane.

nothing new there. You checked in earlier. that's all. It happened to me once, at SFO on my flight back to JFK. You should be glad your luggage arrived earlier though.
First, I said 'hey' and then I said 'now'. "Hey Now!" - Hank K.
 
mattnrsa
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Thread starter):
I thought they are supposed to make sure the person with the bag is on the plane.



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 3):
And then people expect us to take airline security seriously.

All checked luggage goes through CTX or similar explosive-detection machines, so the bags do not have to travel on the same flight as the customer, domestically. Domestic PPBM existed before 100% CTX-ing was in place.

The current system is much safer. Better to be sure there are no explosives in the suitcases than to make sure the terrorist boards the plane with his bomb in the luggage hold.
 
ckfred
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:35 pm

Last year, I tried to get on an earlier Eagle flight out of ATL for ORD, but I didn't make it. So, I went on the AA flight that I was booked. The Eagle flight sat on a ground stop for 1 hour, while the AA flight, although running late, didn't sit on a ground stop. So, it got into ORD about 45 minutes behind the Eagle flight.

So, by the time I got down to the baggage claim, my bag was still going around on the Eagle carousel.

But here's another question. If you volunteer to take a later flight, or if you are involuntarily bumped, does that airline pull the bag off the flight, or does it go ahead without you?

I've given up seats many times, although I haven't done it since December of 2001. The bag always went on my original flight.
 
bond007
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:40 pm

This is fairly common the US shuttle flights. I often fly DCA-BOS and if I check in early, the bag get's to BOS early.

The BIG problem is that if you don't know about this possibility, you wait at the carousel until your bag doesn't turn up ... then go hunting for it ... and find it sitting on the side outside the office with the other unclaimed bags. So, instead of getting your bag before everyone else ... you end up thinking it got lost, and finally get it last.

It's fine sending it early, but there needs to be a much better process of informing pax that this has happened, and where the bag is.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
Transpac787
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:00 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 8):
But here's another question. If you volunteer to take a later flight, or if you are involuntarily bumped, does that airline pull the bag off the flight, or does it go ahead without you?

I can only speak as to how things work at my airline, but...

You cannot volunatirly go on an earlier flight if you have bags checked on your booked flight. However, if your booked is oversold, has a weight-limit, etc etc and requires people to volunteer their seat, your bag will travel on the booked flight, and you will go on the later flight.

Of course, the exception to all this is if you are traveling internationally. International bags have to be PPBM'd. However, there is still one exception, and that is if the pax makes their connection to the international flight, but their bag does not. The bag will obviously have to take the next flight, and at that point we have to retag it so it is authorized to travel internationally even though the pax is not on board that exact flight.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 3):
little things like matching luggage to passengers on the flights.

It's actually the most royal pain in the ass, not quite a "little thing". Especially for flights like DEN-ORD that are notoriously overbooked by AT LEAST 60 seats, that would be a LOT of bags to pull off. If it's a 763 or 777 it's relatively easy as we just have to pull off the cans with the bags to be deplaned, but if it's a 757 or other narrowbody, it's enough to drive one insane, like looking for a needle in a haystack.

So, to be quite honest, the current system is better. The number of bags that would be accidentally deplaned because of a domestic PPBM policy would be ridiculous.....not to mention the associated delays with having to deplane bags off almost every flight, as there is always someone who doesn't make a connection.

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 4):
Flew from LAX-DEN-DFW-ORD-MSP...

I assume you were nonrevving?!? Anyhow, on hub-to-hub flights, we'll often "shortcut" the bags if possible. What I mean is, if the pax is flying (to follow your example) DFW-ORD--MSP, we'll often just send the bag on DFW-MSP. Technically we're not supposed to, but on the flip-side we aren't breaking any rules by doing it. So, if we can avoid sending a transfer bag to ORD, we will send it to the final destination nonstop.

Hope that answers most questions!!
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:38 pm

May last flight from YOW to YYZ was held because someone who's bag was checked but hadn't boarded needed to be removed. I thappened to be in the first container that was removed and right on the top, so the delay was only a couple of minutes. Occasionally a bag gets on an earlier flight by mistake when someone manually makes a mistake. Sometimes a bag is misread by the scanner and gets booted out. The baggage handler sees the destination and puts it in the wrong container either by accident or by design. There are also times when a flight is known to be very full and/or there is a lot of priority cargo to go on a particular flight that bags are often put on a flight before or delayed to a flight after. On high frequency flights such as AC's YYZ to YOW or YUL where the flights are hourly you may not even notice if your bag goes before you. The lucrative cargo arrangements such as mail and courier packages often call for creative solutions. The frequency and randomness of it happening probably covers a portion of the security concerns for doing it but not all of it.
 
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litz
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:59 pm

The must pull the bag off rule isn't always applicable ... for instance, if you miss flight A but are rebooked on flight B (usually this is frequent fliers), your bag will go ahead on flight A and they won't pull it off.

This is especially true if the airline knows you're in the airport, have checked your bag, and simply haven't made it to the flight.

If they know you're gonna be on a later flight, it's not worth it to them to have to dig your bag out so it travels with you.

I experienced this many, many, many times when traveling ... bags that both arrived ahead and behind me, depending on which flight I ended up on -- esp. when playing the "got any seats?" game trying to get home early on Fridays.

- litz
 
Boston92
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:14 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 10):

I believe my bag went LAX-DEN-MSP and didn't even go to DFW or ORD.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
bond007
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:10 pm

There was another time when my bag arrived about 5 hours before I did ... except it was at the wrong airport!

I was flying DFW to LGW and when I arrived at LGW I was told my bag 'was waiting for me' at ABQ  Smile


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
jetmatt777
Crew
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:27 pm

I was flying OKC-DFW-LGA. AA overbooked the AA Eagle flight to DFW so they put us First Class on the later flight to DFW on a MD83. Our bags went ahead on the Eagle Flight and when we got to DFW we missed our connection to LGA, but our bags made it. When we arrived at LGA my brothers bag was stolen and the rest of our were waiting in the baggage office. We never got our $250 compensation for the clothes, battery chargers, cologne, etc. My brother had to wear the same clothes that he wore on the day of travel for the entire 5 day trip.

-Matt
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
airbazar
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:27 am

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 5):
It is not up to TSA is decide what bags get load onto an airline's airplanes, it is all up to the airline.

Regardless of who's job it is to actually put the bags on the plane, the fact is it's the TSA's responsibility to ensure the security of the flight and to me, not matching the bags with the passengers is a pretty big security vulnerability and the TSA should be overseeing that. That's just my opinion.
 
COERJ145
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:47 am

I once flew SJC-LAS-PHX-BOS on America West in 2005. I missed the BOS flight due to a late arriving aircraft in LAS(got to PHX 12 minutes before the BOS flight left). My bag made my original flight, and I got stuck going back through LAS to BOS on a red-eye. All in all, my bag got to BOS 10hrs before me.
 
AIR757200
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:56 am

Since everyone pretty much answered the question.. I just have to comment on this:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 15):
My brother had to wear the same clothes that he wore on the day of travel for the entire 5 day trip.

That is just wrong. I could totally understand flying into some third world country and not having access to a clothing store, but here in the US.. your brother actually wore the same clothes for five days!?

When I flew to NYC, my bag was delayed on a simple DTW-LGA flight on NW and I already had shopping bags of clothes just for shits and giggles by the time the bag arrived later in the evening, on my way out to the bar.
 
mattnrsa
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:21 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 16):
not matching the bags with the passengers is a pretty big security vulnerability

Airbazar, I know I already said this in reply 7, but matching bags to passengers does nothing for security if someone is willing to blow themself up. ALL bags in the US are run through a CTX machine or similar explosive-detection machine. The current procedures ensure there are no bombs in checked luggage, so does it matter if the passenger is on the plane with bag?

Doesn't this seem safer than the old method of domestic PPBM?
 
sandrozrh
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:25 am

A friend of my brother had his luggage blown up at JFK by security personel because it was sent out on LX's earlier JFK flight from ZRH, and when it remained on the belt after all passengers had picked up their bags, the TSA or whoever was in charge decided to blow it up rather than finding out who it belonged to first, idiots  banghead 

My bag from HAM to ZRH was sent out on an earlier flight earlier this year and it just appeared on the belt with the rest of the bags from the flight i was on.
 
MattRB
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:30 am

Up here, things are a little different. We match all bags to passengers and pull them if they are not on the plane once the aircraft is ready to pushback (it's a real PITA to sequence a bag on the international flights). In the bagroom, the system flags bags as they come down the chute as to their status. I'll usually get a few 'no load authority' bags during the day and, occasionally, have to offload bags from flights before they leave the bagroom.

If the TSA isn't mandating this be done down there, why isn't the traveling public (or the airline employees themselves) raising a ruckus and making a big issue of this?
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
mattnrsa
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:27 pm

RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:33 am

Quoting MattRB (Reply 21):
If the TSA isn't mandating this be done down there, why isn't the traveling public (or the airline employees themselves) raising a ruckus and making a big issue of this?

See replies 7 and 19. PPBM is done only on international flights, though I'm not sure why since all bags are CTX-ed.
 
ckfred
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 10):
I can only speak as to how things work at my airline, but...

You cannot volunatirly go on an earlier flight if you have bags checked on your booked flight.

When I checked in, my bag was checked for the ealier flight, because I was high on the stand-by list. As it got closer to departure, the elites had bumped me way down on the list.

I learned about the rule against getting on earlier flights after checking the bags long ago. My wife and I were flying YHZ-YYZ-ORD, connecting from CP to AA. I think this was 1998

When we got to YYZ, the AA flight ahead of ours was still there, and the CSA was announcing that there were plenty of empty seats for passengers booked on the later flight. When I tried to get us on the plane, I was told that only passengers with carry-on bags only could switch.
 
57AZ
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:20 am

Unaccompanied checked baggage isn't such a big deal. The system is essentwially a closed one-the bag only enters the system if it makes it through screening. On my most recent commercial flight: PIT-DTW-PHX my checked bags missed the transfer at DTW. Rathar than let them sit for 24 hours, NW actually made a good effort to keep them moving. They forwarded them as quickly as possible to PHX, then put them on a US Airways PHX-TUS flight as I live in TUS. They said that's a common thing they do.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
airbazar
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RE: Luggage Arriving On Earlier Flight Question.

Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:17 pm

Quoting Mattnrsa (Reply 19):
ALL bags in the US are run through a CTX machine or similar explosive-detection machine. The current procedures ensure there are no bombs in checked luggage, so does it matter if the passenger is on the plane with bag?

Then why bother screen hand luggage at all? That's a system with a single point of failure. If you fail to detect the explosive in the bag you lose an airplane and possibly a few hundred lives and may do irreparable damange to the airline and the industry. If you were matching bags to passengers, you could always pull those unattended bags for extra screening. I know that does nothing to prevent suicide bombers from getting on the plane but security needs to be done on multiple fronts. The other glaring security vulnerability is the fact that some cargo on commercial flights is not even screened for explosives. Again, they're probably too busy looking for nail clippers in grandma's purse  Smile

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