USADreamliner
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Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:00 am

With no sizable hub operation, Pittsburgh has lost all non-stop service to places like San Diego, Seattle, and Orange County where US Airways was the sole operator. Other major routes like Los Angeles and San Francisco, which once had several daily non-stop departures, are left with only a single flight per day. And those traveling to scores of regional destinations like Albany, Allentown, Altoona, or Buffalo will have to connect through other hubs to reach those destinations.

US Airways enjoyed an 87% market share of all traffic in, out, and through Pittsburgh. Now that market share is less than 40%, and, only two years after entering the market, Southwest is now the number 2 airline in Pittsburgh carrying 11% of all passengers.

Pittsburgh passengers now enjoy airfares that are 7% lower than the national average. With the higher cost structure inherent in operating a hub, US Airways could no longer compete at this lower price point.
But ironically those lower fares now enjoyed by Pittsburgh passengers come at the cost of greater inconvenience and time spent connecting somewhere else or waiting around for that one remaining non-stop flight per day.

Seventy-five gates and four runways set on spacious grounds assured that Pittsburgh International Airport did not suffer the gridlock and congestion that plague much larger hub airports like Atlanta Hartsfield, Chicago O'Hare, or Dallas-Fort Worth. Now with fewer than 250 departures per day, the Pittsburgh airport has become severely underutilized.



http://www.usatoday.com/travel/colum...5-dismantling-pittsburgh-hub_N.htm
 
crj200faguy
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:03 am

I always like going into PIT. I like all the shops and food options. It's a nice terminal. I always feel sad when I'm there. Hopefully, someone will bring her back to life.
 
ASAFA
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:24 am

Interesting I didn't know that SEA-PIT had been discontinued altogether.

I wonder if AS will take the opportunity to launch SEA-PIT service.
 
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malaysia
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:27 am

I liked going through PIT, even I have never been to PHL yet Big grin

It was a nice place

reminds me a bit of STL when AA took over and US downsized PIT dramatically
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panam330
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:30 am

Quoting ASAFA (Reply 2):
I wonder if AS will take the opportunity to launch SEA-PIT service.

Not in the next few decades, unless the situation changes. What little feed PIT has is *A, and AS is linked to SkyTeam and AA. The route would have to survive pretty much off of O&D, and that's not the most ideal situation. AS has much lower-hanging fruit to pick from. It's nice to think about, but it's just not going to happen.
 
silentbob
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting CRJ200FAGuy (Reply 1):
I always like going into PIT. I like all the shops and food options.

The Chinese place over by the NW gates cooks everything to order. It may take a couple minutes longer but it's the best food I've had in any airport.
 
Indy
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:50 am

With ever increasing oil prices will the decision to shut down PIT as a US hub end up being a mistake? I wonder how much money airlines lose in the form of burned fuel on long taxi times, queues for departure, circling airports because of ground delays, etc. With every dollar the price of oil goes up places like ORD, ATL, DFW, etc become less and less attractive. At least financially. In an industry where margins are thin you can't afford to be burning fuel unnecessarily. BTW oil closed around $87 per barrel today.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
silentbob
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 6):
With ever increasing oil prices will the decision to shut down PIT as a US hub end up being a mistake? I wonder how much money airlines lose in the form of burned fuel on long taxi times, queues for departure, circling airports because of ground delays, etc. With every dollar the price of oil goes up places like ORD, ATL, DFW, etc become less and less attractive. At least financially. In an industry where margins are thin you can't afford to be burning fuel unnecessarily. BTW oil closed around $87 per barrel today.

It's actually the rising fuel prices as much as anything that have driven this decision. Why feed people into PIT, PHL and CLT when you can just feed PHL and CLT? It eliminates a lot of redundancy.
 
Indy
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:04 am

US has a bit of a problem in my opinion. PHL has great O/D but it is a nightmare when it comes to delays and runway queues. Far too much fuel is wasted. Perhaps it would be best to just serve the O/D in PHL and keep the connections elsewhere.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
silentbob
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 8):
US has a bit of a problem in my opinion. PHL has great O/D but it is a nightmare when it comes to delays and runway queues. Far too much fuel is wasted. Perhaps it would be best to just serve the O/D in PHL and keep the connections elsewhere.

The problem is the continued expansion at PHL by the airlines, US actually reduced the overall number of flights. The solution to use some of the gates capable of handling international traffic for domestic flying is utterly absurd. There's a reason the runways are empty in PIT and it has nothing to do with any airline.

If PHL can fill 3/4 of a plane to a city twice a day and you can bring in enough passengers to fill those two planes as well as one more, you have more frequency using fewer aircraft than flying those two aircraft 3/4 full out of PHL and another two aircraft 3/4 full out of PIT. The O&D out of PIT to most cities isn't enough to fill those other two aircraft.
 
Indy
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:49 am

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 9):
The solution to use some of the gates capable of handling international traffic for domestic flying is utterly absurd.

I know NW flies 3x daily from IND to PHL. They are all CRJs. Seems like a bit of a waste doesn't it?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
roseflyer
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:29 am

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 3):
reminds me a bit of STL when AA took over and US downsized PIT dramatically

True, although PIT has a beautiful new airport compared to STL which is hardly spectacular.

I was in PIT just this last weekend and the terminal is very nice and so empty. I wonder how they will keep all of those stores in the airmall. Do you really need a Victoria's Secret in an airport? With so few flights and virtually no connecting passengers, the terminal goes to waste. If only we could cut part of it off and glue it onto some other airports that desperately need the space.
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ERJ170
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):
If only we could cut part of it off and glue it onto some other airports that desperately need the space.

Here's a VERY out of the box idea..

Why don't they literally make one of the wings into a mall and observation area.. PIT is shaped like and "X".. so just take on of the legs and make it into shops and observation area.. then have the security area set up one can get to that part outside of security, but can still walk the entire concourse to plane watch and shop.. then they can at least get utilization and added revenue without having to mothball the concourse...

just an idea..
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DAYflyer
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:33 pm

Im surprised FL hasn't taken more advatage of the downsizing by US at PIT. I know WN is there, but you would think that FL could make more of a fight of it.
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jfk69
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:44 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 12):
Why don't they literally make one of the wings into a mall and observation area.. PIT is shaped like and "X".. so just take on of the legs and make it into shops and observation area.. then have the security area set up one can get to that part outside of security, but can still walk the entire concourse to plane watch and shop.. then they can at least get utilization and added revenue without having to mothball the concourse...

Ehhh, all it would mean is that all of us could post in person instead of online!!!!! We would be the only users!

I have a question....Can an airport like PIT which is so so underutilized and so lacking (from what it seems) any major revenue go bankrupt?? I am sure the state would never let it happen (I am sure it probably isn't possible). But if PIT was a company it would have closed a long long time ago........


Such a shame, Thanks US
 
willbdsp
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:02 pm

I always thought it would be cool if they did close a concourse, it could be used as a soundstage for shows that require an airport mock up. Just a thought.
 
USPIT10L
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 5):
The Chinese place over by the NW gates cooks everything to order. It may take a couple minutes longer but it's the best food I've had in any airport.

Wok and Roll wasn't bad, but I've had better Chinese in town lots of times.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 12):
Why don't they literally make one of the wings into a mall and observation area.. PIT is shaped like and "X".. so just take on of the legs and make it into shops and observation area.. then have the security area set up one can get to that part outside of security, but can still walk the entire concourse to plane watch and shop.. then they can at least get utilization and added revenue without having to mothball the concourse...

The problem is each concourse is utilized to some extent. Since we really don't know what US Airways will do for gate space at PIT without express, the question is too open-ended. It's still too early to say yes or no about it.
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ERJ170
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:47 pm

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 14):
Ehhh, all it would mean is that all of us could post in person instead of online!!!!! We would be the only users!

You would be surprised how many people spot at the airport. I know from personal experiences.. going to the observation deck at RDU and Gravely Point in DC.. it can get real crowded real quick.. and lots of people bring food and are there for quite a long time watching the aircraft.. Many families go as well as spotters and those waiting for people to arrive.. but, I digress.
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sh0rtybr0wn
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 5):
The Chinese place over by the NW gates cooks everything to order. It may take a couple minutes longer but it's the best food I've had in any airport.

Wow. I hope they have better Chinese food in airports in China.
 
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malaysia
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:12 pm

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 18):
Wow. I hope they have better Chinese food in airports in China.

Sure, but honestly the food in Chinese airports makes our Chinese food seem like Sugar Treats. Its totally different, and sometimes some can be more bland, cause in the US, we add lots of sugar and also our dishes are americanized. Big grin

sometimes when in Taiwan or Hong Kong, I get tired and want Panda Express back home  Smile
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Cubsrule
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:16 pm

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 7):
It's actually the rising fuel prices as much as anything that have driven this decision. Why feed people into PIT, PHL and CLT when you can just feed PHL and CLT? It eliminates a lot of redundancy.

STL (which is essentially the same distance from ORD as PIT is from PHL) retains a fairly sizable AA hub with service to many minor markets, and it effectively functions as a reliever airport for the extremely congested ORD. Could US have done something similar with PIT? With different priorities and a less expensive facility, probably so. Redundancy can be bad, but when one of the redundant hubs has capacity issues, as PHL does, it can also work to a carrier's advantage.
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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:36 pm

I'll sum up here some of what I've said in some other threads.

The draw-down and closure of the Pittsburgh hub is one reason I avoid US Airways for both my business and leisure travel. Yes, as SilentBob notes, there's more O & D at PHL. And the legacy carriers seem (other than sensible CO who is building up CLE) to be concentrating everybody at the megahubs these days.

But sending everybody to megahubs doesn't seem to work when those hubs get so congested that they become unreliable. I avoid PHL, armpit and delay-nightmare that it is, like the plague. As ScottB has noted in other threads, US actually increased departures at PHL after WN entered, they just cut back the mainline drastically and upped the Express. And of course PHL has its famous baggage handlers.

In a world where the airports where Every Airline Wants to Connect You have bad runway layouts, congestion, and NIMBY or environmental-extremism issues to prevent serious reconstrcution, and there are beautiful underused hub facilities like PIT, I am very skeptical that everyone has to go to the megahubs. Why not send int'l and the smaller markets through PHL (where that O & D matters more), but run lots more domestic through PIT? I'd bet after the past few years, Allegheny County might be willing forgive US their nasty rejection of leases 20 minutes before exiting BK, and cut a fee deal. But US won't--the Gospel of Megahubs reigns. Is US really saving that much money making everyone sit on the ground in PHL?

Fortunately, I live in Washington D.C., where we have three airports and a splintered market with many reasonable fares on various carriers, nonstop to many markets. So I have options. When I go to a smaller market where I have to connect, I go through one of the least-delay-prone megahubs, like DTW.

But US Airways, whose fares in my markets drove me to LCC's years ago, just gives me one more reason to stay away by focusing Northeast traffic at PHL.

Jim
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pitops
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:03 pm

Quoting ASAFA (Reply 2):
Interesting I didn't know that SEA-PIT had been discontinued altogether.



They did this awhile back. I believe it was the beginning of Spring.

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 3):
I liked going through PIT, even I have never been to PHL yet

Avoid this like the plague!

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 5):
The Chinese place over by the NW gates cooks everything to order. It may take a couple minutes longer but it's the best food I've had in any airport.

Wok N Roll!!!

Quoting Indy (Reply 8):
US has a bit of a problem in my opinion. PHL has great O/D but it is a nightmare when it comes to delays and runway queues. Far too much fuel is wasted. Perhaps it would be best to just serve the O/D in PHL and keep the connections elsewhere.

This has been stated before. Keep the O&D and some connections out of PHL and make PIT a regional hub for US. Bring back the RJs to PIT and keep all bigger aircraft in PHL. This would relieve some runway congestion.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):
I was in PIT just this last weekend and the terminal is very nice and so empty. I wonder how they will keep all of those stores in the airmall. Do you really need a Victoria's Secret in an airport? With so few flights and virtually no connecting passengers, the terminal goes to waste. If only we could cut part of it off and glue it onto some other airports that desperately need the space.

Give a couple concourses to PHL! They need it.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 12):
Here's a VERY out of the box idea..

Why don't they literally make one of the wings into a mall and observation area.. PIT is shaped like and "X".. so just take on of the legs and make it into shops and observation area.. then have the security area set up one can get to that part outside of security, but can still walk the entire concourse to plane watch and shop.. then they can at least get utilization and added revenue without having to mothball the concourse...

just an idea..

Not sure how that would work. You would need several checkpoints on airside for that instead of one centralized one. Would be a pain for pax going from one concourse to the other.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 16):
The problem is each concourse is utilized to some extent. Since we really don't know what US Airways will do for gate space at PIT without express, the question is too open-ended. It's still too early to say yes or no about it.

US is consolidating all ops to B concourse, abandoning A concourse.
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AADC10
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:03 pm

Alas, poor PIT. It was a good idea in the 1990s for a smaller city but changing times have really hurt it. Since PIT is now underutilized, they should allow non-passengers back into the terminal.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 18):
Wow. I hope they have better Chinese food in airports in China.

Unfortunately they do not. Food is both expensive (by Chinese standards) and not very good at the airports. China is very regionalized and most people greatly prefer their own regional food. I guess at the airports they respond by serving bland food that does not taste good to anyone.

In the US there is Chinese food that Chinese people would eat and Chinese food for non-Chinese and to some extent, Chinese food for Jews. I doubt that any airport Chinese restaurant would serve anything except something from Panda Express or PF Chang's.
 
pitops
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:16 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 23):
Alas, poor PIT. It was a good idea in the 1990s for a smaller city but changing times have really hurt it. Since PIT is now underutilized, they should allow non-passengers back into the terminal.

They have been trying but I doubt it will ever happen as long as the TSA is here.
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caspritz78
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:17 pm

I think US didn't had much a choice. They needed to cut costs and sizing down from three to two hubs saves you a lot of money. If AmericaWest hadn't bought US Airways they would have been after Pan AM and TWA the third airline disappearing. I think it is now int he hands of the airport management to attract new airlines.
 
silentbob
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:18 pm

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 16):
Wok and Roll wasn't bad, but I've had better Chinese in town lots of times.

Best Chinese I had was in Toronto, but it wasn't at the airport.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 18):
I hope they have better Chinese food in airports in China.

I would hope so too, but seeing how I've never been to China....

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 19):
Sure, but honestly the food in Chinese airports makes our Chinese food seem like Sugar Treats. Its totally different, and sometimes some can be more bland, cause in the US, we add lots of sugar and also our dishes are americanized.

That's the biggest problem with it in the US, it's more like candy than actual food. The Wok & Roll on D (not the other three) is actually real food and quite tasty.
 
SpencerII
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:14 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 13):
Im surprised FL hasn't taken more advatage of the downsizing by US at PIT. I know WN is there, but you would think that FL could make more of a fight of it.

It takes a good mixedof O & D Passengers & support from a Business Community to make something like that work. PIT has neither, and it took US all these years to figure it out.
 
asuflyer05
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:38 pm

Quoting PITops (Reply 22):

This has been stated before. Keep the O&D and some connections out of PHL and make PIT a regional hub for US. Bring back the RJs to PIT and keep all bigger aircraft in PHL. This would relieve some runway congestion.

Why combine the lower yield of connecting traffic with the higher operating costs of an RJ? Send the traffic through PHL, up the flight to a 320 from a 319. The greater demand through PHL pushes fares up, and increases profitability. And you didn't cause any additional runway traffic.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:39 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 6):
With ever increasing oil prices will the decision to shut down PIT as a US hub end up being a mistake?

it makes PIT that much less profitable

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 18):
Wow. I hope they have better Chinese food in airports in China.

probably tainted with lead
 
PanAm747
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:49 pm

Here's PIT's problem - to effectively operate a hub, there MUST be significant amounts of O&D passengers, not just connections. Unfortunately, Pittsburgh is not a city where companies are rushing to, so the need for many non-stops just isn't there.

Quote:
In a world where the airports where Every Airline Wants to Connect You have bad runway layouts, congestion, and NIMBY or environmental-extremism issues to prevent serious reconstrcution, and there are beautiful underused hub facilities like PIT, I am very skeptical that everyone has to go to the megahubs. Why not send int'l and the smaller markets through PHL (where that O & D matters more), but run lots more domestic through PIT? I'd bet after the past few years, Allegheny County might be willing forgive US their nasty rejection of leases 20 minutes before exiting BK, and cut a fee deal. But US won't--the Gospel of Megahubs reigns.

Perhaps if it was really done right, US could copy the CO model - get some of the RJ traffic out of EWR and use under-utilized CLE. Then PHL could focus on the bigger traffic demands.

Quote:
Is US really saving that much money making everyone sit on the ground in PHL?

Yep. As does CO at EWR, AA and UA at ORD, B6 at JFK, and DL at ATL, just to name a few. As long as the demand is there, and the FAA stands to the side and doesn't implement rules preventing it, airlines will continue to squeeze in frequencies on RJ's (replacing mainline equipment) to suit the demand AND will schedule 300+ departures from 7:00 - 7:30 PM with only one operating runway. Hey, as long as they leave the gate on time, it can still be listed as "on-time"!!
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masseybrown
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:56 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 30):
Here's PIT's problem - to effectively operate a hub, there MUST be significant amounts of O&D passengers

This was true when WN killed the profitability of flow traffic with their low fares; but since WN has been posting one fare increase after another, the yield on traffic flowing over hubs has greatly improved. CLT has little O&D relative to the number of seats available and it survives.
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:59 pm

What I don't get is the over reliance on O&D....correct me if I'm wrong but why has the following been considered:

WHy can't airlines reinvent PIT, STL and any other small market w/ big facilities as a hub and create a strategic plan that matches competitive fares with economics on the spoke cities and fill the planes mostly on the connecion method? And then focus on the big cities for O&D...make senes? If you were to aggressively market to midsize spoke cities like CMH, IND, MKE, DAY (so on and so forth) that for a competitive fare you can get them to say BOS, DCA, BUF, SYR, LGA whatever, I'm sure you could fill those planes and bank up PIT (or any other smaller city) and make a profit, right? or no?

I remember in the 80s (See my other post on US in PIT and 727s/737s from west coast) BEFORE US had acquired PSA, they were hardly a player in SFO and LAX. But they ran all kinds of interesting marketing campaigns (the big one was w/ Safeway, if you saved so many Safeway receits you got like $100 off a roundtrip purchase) and they would list all the more interesting bigger destinations in teh east, NOBODY knew you would have to go through PIT to get there! It was just generically marketed that US could get you there from the west!
 
SpencerII
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:02 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 31):
CLT has little O&D relative to the number of seats available and it survives.

Ahh...but CLT has a business community that supports US and most of their endeavors & a VERY VERY high yield market.

PIT has no business structure to speak of to that degree.
 
pitops
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:34 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 30):
Perhaps if it was really done right, US could copy the CO model - get some of the RJ traffic out of EWR and use under-utilized CLE. Then PHL could focus on the bigger traffic demands.

Pretty much what I said earlier in a post.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
B752OS
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:38 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 8):
US has a bit of a problem in my opinion. PHL has great O/D but it is a nightmare when it comes to delays and runway queues. Far too much fuel is wasted. Perhaps it would be best to just serve the O/D in PHL and keep the connections elsewhere.

That's what I have said in other threads. First off, I rarely will fly US, especially now that I cannot connect through PIT, second, I think it would be great if US could send the bulk of connecting pax going through PHL to PIT instead. I personally do not like PHL, I think it's a dump and for a hub airline to have their main hub in such a dump, it pretty bad. PIT has one of the nicest facilities in the country, and instead, US would rather pump pax through PHL. Not only would it improve the overal on-time performance on the airline, sending people through PIT in my opinion would give people a better opinion of the overall airline. It seems every person I know who has ever flown US has a PHL horror story of some sort. For me, US was always the best option for the Great Lakes region (Ohip, Western PA, Indiana, Michigan) in my opinion because they offered a good amount of cities and had a great airport to connect through (PIT) Since the downsizing of the PIT hub, I have switched my flying to that region from US to UA (which is now my preferred domestic airline).

But then again, US seems to be set in their ways and won't change. I for one am surprised that a great deal of people still fly them through PHL.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 13):
Im surprised FL hasn't taken more advatage of the downsizing by US at PIT. I know WN is there, but you would think that FL could make more of a fight of it.

With a decent sized operation out of IND that seems to keep growing, I doubt PIT would see a big buildup, sans flights to Florida.
 
pitops
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:46 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 35):
With a decent sized operation out of IND that seems to keep growing, I doubt PIT would see a big buildup, sans flights to Florida.

From US or any airline?
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
B752OS
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RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:51 pm

Quoting PITops (Reply 36):
Quoting B752OS (Reply 35):
With a decent sized operation out of IND that seems to keep growing, I doubt PIT would see a big buildup, sans flights to Florida.

From US or any airline?

I mean't to add that I was talking about FL.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:11 pm

Yes, Pittsburgh has seen an economic downturn and a major dehubbing over the years, but I think an upswing is instore for the region. Two F-500 companies are relocating to the region, well at least one is anyway, and Esmark is also coming in as soon as they acquire Wheeling-Pitt Steel.

I know many of you on here think I am crazy in saying that Pittsburgh, along with Cleveland, could reestablish themselves as the Tech Belt, but I don't think that is so far-fetched. What we need is innovative leaders to help rebuild this region in general. I would have to say, that of all the recessions and economic collapses over the last few decades, Pittsburgh has suffered the most. If we had people who thought outside the box, like the representatives trying to pass Pittsburgh and Cleveland off as the Tech Belt cities, then this would entice larger tech companies to locate to the region. It has been suggested that Pittsburgh is already a place for innovation, so I only have a positive outlook for this city.

As far as O&D is concerned, this is only getting higher, and WN has plans of expanding PIT to some 65 daily flights and/or beyond over the next few years. FL is adding Florida markets from PIT, and I kinda think that this will be all they focus on, considering the proximity to BWI, which I believe is their second-largest base. However, FL representatives have said that they will meticulously observe PIT to see what is going on. As of their latest monthly traffic reports though, they enjoyed a 50% jump in traffic. I guess with any airline, anything is possible with PIT. The region is reinventing itself, and only time will tell how air traffic will make a comeback at PIT.

Good article though!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:14 pm

I just found out the other day that the new USA 3000 flights are already booked solid!
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
B752OS
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:09 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 38):
Yes, Pittsburgh has seen an economic downturn and a major dehubbing over the years, but I think an upswing is instore for the region. Two F-500 companies are relocating to the region, well at least one is anyway, and Esmark is also coming in as soon as they acquire Wheeling-Pitt Steel.

I know many of you on here think I am crazy in saying that Pittsburgh, along with Cleveland, could reestablish themselves as the Tech Belt, but I don't think that is so far-fetched. What we need is innovative leaders to help rebuild this region in general. I would have to say, that of all the recessions and economic collapses over the last few decades, Pittsburgh has suffered the most. If we had people who thought outside the box, like the representatives trying to pass Pittsburgh and Cleveland off as the Tech Belt cities, then this would entice larger tech companies to locate to the region. It has been suggested that Pittsburgh is already a place for innovation, so I only have a positive outlook for this city.

In the region, Cleveland has been hit the hardest. As a big manufacturing and blue collar city, they have struggled to adapt their economy to the new millennium, where Pittsburgh has a more diverse economy and has done a better job adapting. One big thing that people often overlook is the local talent base and area educational institutions which Pittsburgh has a huge lead over Cleveland. The only think CLE has going for it is congestion at EWR and COs willingness to build it up on connecting pax.
 
7cubed
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:02 am

RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:14 pm

The city of Pittsburgh will one day be seen as a good place to live and do business. I think a lot of people that live there already know this. As global warming becomes more and more present the climate in Pitt will become more sought after. Look at the south now. I have family that lives in Charlotte and there's definitely a lot of concern right now about the weather. It's become very expensive to cool homes and rain is almost nonexistent. Pitt has got to be among the tops in amount of rainfall per year in the US. Also, Pitt offers some of the lowest cost of living in the US. Add in the great infrastructure and you have a hell of a place live and do business. PIT needs to be mothballed...it will be needed. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 38):

 checkmark  Well said.
joe
 
USAirALB
Posts: 1671
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:35 pm

I think that the entire PIT hub will be gone by 2013. It makes me so sad. PIT is such a nicer airport than PHL. I would prefer to go their than PHL. About 3-4 years ago ALB had 6-7 737's to PIT. Now we have nothing. Until about 2003, it was US largest hub. They would take you to fantastic destinations non-stop. Orange County,Paris,Frankfurt,Montego Bay,London,Seattle and more. In the late 90's US gave its entire terminal a facelift. That has gone to waste. This reminds me of how I felt for BWI. They too went to most major destinations on US including LGW. US used to operate in Concource A,B,C,and E. They now only operate in A. Pit had demolished Con. E.


PIT hold on as long as you can.
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:51 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 6):
I wonder how much money airlines lose in the form of burned fuel on long taxi times, queues for departure, circling airports because of ground delays, etc.

...less they would lose on an unprofitable and/or excessive-opportunity-cost hub operation.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 18):
Wow. I hope they have better Chinese food in airports in China.

Heck, some of the stuff they serve in Chinese-American restaurants would prolly be considered exotic-cuisine in China.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
Could US have done something similar with PIT?

They tried that. Couldn't make it work.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 21):
And the legacy carriers seem (other than sensible CO who is building up CLE) to be concentrating everybody at the megahubs these days.

Among the primary reasons CO is building CLE is anticipation of (an artificially-mandated?) max-out in the New York area air-space.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 23):
Since PIT is now underutilized, they should allow non-passengers back into the terminal.

That's not their decision to make, no matter how badly they want it.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 42):
I think that the entire PIT hub will be gone by 2013. It makes me so sad.

It's pretty much gone now. They had been calling it a Secondary Hub. It is barely a focus city if you ask me.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 42):
Pit had demolished Con. E.

Only the northern arm is gone to make room for the North Matrix Baggage facility which is slated to open next November for US and WN. The rest of the building is still intact.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
USAirALB
Posts: 1671
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:11 pm

Quoting PITops (Reply 44):
It's pretty much gone now. They had been calling it a Secondary Hub. It is barely a focus city if you ask me.

No I mean, In 2013 they wont have flights to MCO,LAX,TPA,SFO....only to PHL,CLT,NYC,DCA
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 45):
No I mean, In 2013 they wont have flights to MCO,LAX,TPA,SFO....only to PHL,CLT,NYC,DCA

Might be sooner with the way things are going. Wouldn't suprise me.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
gift4tbone
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:25 pm

RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:07 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 45):
only to PHL,CLT,NYC,DCA

You almost forgot, LAS and PHX too...

-Tony@PVD
Top 3 airports: PVD 23.9%(138 flights), PHL 14.7%(85 flights), PHX 10.2%(59 flights)
 
Indy
Posts: 3979
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 29):

it makes PIT that much less profitable

Well if an airline is going to double handle passengers which a hub does then you want to minimize ground time and backtrack time. For the most part PHL fails on both accounts. Unless your flight involves the northeast you are going to backtrack and you will burn more fuel on the ground in PHL versus PIT. You don't have to have a 500 flight hub for a hub to be successful. Location is important and you have to get people to want to connect in your airport. Who really wants to connect in PHL? I'm guessing very few people. Will US lose business because of this move?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

RE: Pittsburgh: Death Of An Airline Hub

Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting Gift4tbone (Reply 47):
You almost forgot, LAS and PHX too...

Unless WN kills them on those 2 routes. Which is possible.

Quoting Indy (Reply 48):
Who really wants to connect in PHL? I'm guessing very few people. Will US lose business because of this move?

It will hurt US I think with the delays and traffic problems. Not a very stable airport.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH

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