N501US
Topic Author
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NW 747 Freighter Status

Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:43 pm

Does anyone have any information on the NWA 747 Freighter fleet? It was my impression that some of the older ones (the original 3 were delivered in the 70's) are truly old in terms of hours. Is there any talk of a replacement for these workhorses?

Thanks!
Fools and thieves are well disguised in the temple and the marketplace.....
 
na
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:52 pm

N618US (built 1975 and almost 32 years in continous service) has been stored since a few months.
As N616US and N617US are of the same age, retirement can´t be far. N619US is only two years younger.
 
Transpac787
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:08 pm

Quoting N501US (Thread starter):
Is there any talk of a replacement for these workhorses?

Nothing official from the company, but there have been those rumors that if NWA firms up all of their 50x 787 options, their entire 744 fleet will be converted to 744F. Of course, it then begs the question where will they get the additional NRT slots for loss of capacity and increase in frequency???

Of course, I'd personally love to see them get all 68x 787's and keep the 744's in pax service, but their 742F's are getting pretty old & worn out.
 
LAXintl
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:19 pm

As I recall from reading in an interview article with the head of NWA Cargo, two additional 742F will be withdrawn first half of 2008.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
N501US
Topic Author
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:28 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
Of course, it then begs the question where will they get the additional NRT slots for loss of capacity and increase in frequency???

Of course, I'd personally love to see them get all 68x 787's and keep the 744's in pax service,

They could use the 787 to overfly NRT to a certain extent.

As profitable as the Freight business is for NW, I would think that a decision can't be too far off. Especially if they have had to park a plane due to old age.
Fools and thieves are well disguised in the temple and the marketplace.....
 
jsquared
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:25 pm

Has NWA Cargo has ruled out the 747-8F yet?
 
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ER757
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:06 pm

Quoting JSquared (Reply 5):
Has NWA Cargo has ruled out the 747-8F yet?

No they haven't. As a matter of fact, NW's CEO was quoted in an interview in Air Crago World as saying that was his preferred option for replacing the 742F's. Of course, funding availability will play a large role in how they go about the replacement cycle. He indicated that 744 conversions are a distinct possibility as well.
 
na
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:56 pm

What puzzles me is that out of all NWA freighters not a single one (with the obvious exception of two new conversions which were done in 2005) has been repainted in the new livery since 2003. Not one D-check in 4 years within NWAs Cargo fleet, thats hard to believe. Even N644NW in the joint NW/KLM livery hasn´t been touched.
 
af773atmsp
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:03 am

Since NW is a strong Airbus customer, could NW possibly order some A332Fs? I think NW will order some 748F's and convert some of their 744s into 744F's.
It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
 
DualQual
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
Of course, it then begs the question where will they get the additional NRT slots for loss of capacity and increase in frequency???

Do NRT slots only apply for one of the runways for larger aircraft? Could a 787 utilize the shorter runway which would eliminate the need for a slot? I think it is NRT I am thinking of where CO does not need a slot for the 738 operation since it can use the shorter runway.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
Lexy
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:20 am

I had once heard that N631NW would be withdrawn here soon. Am I correct on that assumption or way off? Anyone?
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
0newair0
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:03 am

I would look to 744s staying pax, 742s staying in service, and a 748F order. 742s can make more money per flight than the 744s...well, thats when their reliability rate is above 45%....
"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
 
na
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:57 am

Quoting Lexy (Reply 10):
I had once heard that N631NW would be withdrawn here soon. Am I correct on that assumption or way off? Anyone?

Thats one of the "newer" NWA freighter, and just has been converted 2 years ago. I doubt that this is right, unless this airfranme has some specific problems. That aircraft is 23 years old, extremely young for a freighter to be retired.
 
columba
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting N501US (Reply 4):
As profitable as the Freight business is for NW, I would think that a decision can't be too far off. Especially if they have had to park a plane due to old age.

I hope they will order some 747-8Is and 747-8Fs soon  Smile
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
bobnwa
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:52 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
Nothing official from the company, but there have been those rumors that if NWA firms up all of their 50x 787 options, their entire 744 fleet will be converted to 744F. Of course, it then begs the question where will they get the additional NRT slots for loss of capacity and increase in frequency???

All of those rumors you refer to, have been on this forum with zero back-up. Not a reliable source.
 
Lexy
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:21 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 12):
Thats one of the "newer" NWA freighter, and just has been converted 2 years ago. I doubt that this is right, unless this airfranme has some specific problems. That aircraft is 23 years old, extremely young for a freighter to be retired.

Obviously would make sense to keep it in the system so long as the airframe is worthy then. Thanks!
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
0newair0
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:03 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 13):
hope they will order some 747-8Is...

I don't think there will be a 748i order...but the 748F is quite possible and might already be in the works.
"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
 
ebj1248650
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:27 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 16):
Quoting Columba (Reply 13):
hope they will order some 747-8Is...

I don't think there will be a 748i order...but the 748F is quite possible and might already be in the works.

Is the 777 freighter a possibility for them? Do they need the additional cargo volume the 747 freighter provides?
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
na
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:41 pm

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 17):
Is the 777 freighter a possibility for them? Do they need the additional cargo volume the 747 freighter provides?

Otherwise they wouldn´t operate only 747s. Also NWA is not known for buying the most expensive aircraft available. And the 777F is very expensive. The 748F doesn´t cost that much more but offers far more room and fits a lot better into the fleet.
 
0newair0
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:09 pm

NWA is going to a point to point network (just incase nobody has noticed) They will be focusing on 787, 757, A330 and planes of similar size and range performance.

CARGO...on the other hand will try and stick with 742 as long as possible because they are cheap to operate when they work. A 742 can make more money than a 744 if they have the same reliability rate. Before the whole mx strike issue Cargo was the most profitable fleet in the airline (sad...isn't it?!). Right now NWA thinks you need 4 engines to be successful in cargo...don't ask me why because I dont know the answer.
"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
 
bobnwa
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:17 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 19):
NWA is going to a point to point network (just incase nobody has noticed) They will be focusing on 787, 757, A330 and planes of similar size and range performance.

Are you talking just about cargo? Because if you aren't, I have not noticed NWA going to a point to point network and I don't believe NWA has noticed it either. NWA firmly believes in the hub system (MSP,DTW,MEM,AMS,NRT) and a few focus cities (IND,MKE, etc)
 
NWAESC
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:20 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 20):
Are you talking just about cargo? Because if you aren't, I have not noticed NWA going to a point to point network and I don't believe NWA has noticed it either. NWA firmly believes in the hub system (MSP,DTW,MEM,AMS,NRT) and a few focus cities (IND,MKE, etc)

Correct for the most part, though P2P routes have gone from almost zero to quite a few in the last few years (Heartland markets, Uppermidwest to FL, etc.).
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
0newair0
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:55 pm

Cargo will basically stay the same as it is now in terms of route structure....pax, especially the new routes, will be more and more point-to-point. Believe it or not...
"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
 
bobnwa
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:08 pm

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 21):
Correct for the most part, though P2P routes have gone from almost zero to quite a few in the last few years (Heartland markets, Uppermidwest to FL, etc.).

Most of those routes to Florida have disappeared except for IND. Same with the LAS flights. from the Heartland.
 
Flighty
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:26 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 23):
Most of those routes to Florida have disappeared except for IND. Same with the LAS flights. from the Heartland.

Most crucially though, the days of using NRT as an Asia hub are numbered. Not gone -- but numbered. Things like ORD-PEK really remove the practicality of IND-DTW-NRT-PEK and the like. IND-ORD-PEK is better.

So, eventually NW will not want to use 744 on DTW-NRT or MSP-NRT. 787 will be fine, along with 787s to PVG, KIX, PEK, ICN, HKG. Otherwise, NW's Asia network will slowly die. They know they have to convert to a point-to-USA Asia network, or in some cases, point-to-point. Like in PDX or SEA, where China flights are likely necessary. And then there's India.
 
NWAESC
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:09 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 23):
Most of those routes to Florida have disappeared except for IND. Same with the LAS flights. from the Heartland.

I know.

However, there's still a couple (FNT-TPA and or MCO seasonally). For the Heartland, there's growing routes like MSN-DCA and DSM-LGA. Flown by airlink, I know, but still something in the NWA route system that didn't exist previously.

Compare the network 5 years ago to now. The only narrowbody routes then I can think of that didn't start or end at a hub were TPA-MBJ and CGM....Might have missed a couple, though....

I certainly don't think the hub system is going away, but to dismiss the growing of P2P routes out of hand is ridiculous.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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coronado
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:10 am

With the current weak US$ NWA is comparatively speaking a low cost carrier compared to JAL and can exert all sorts of pricing pressure on JAL. They have a significant percentage of Japan origin traffic--why would they walk away from that? They can keep their hub at NRT and add the POP flights from DTW and MSP to various Chinese cities once their 787's start arriving--they can treat the 787's as their transpacific 757's to run frequency on longer thinner routes.

They may as well leverage up their MSP and DTW operations both of which are currently set up to be some of the more reliable USA airports for the next 10 years, in so far as available runway and terminal capacities.
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
gigneil
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
Most crucially though, the days of using NRT as an Asia hub are numbered.

IDK about that... I think, and I'm far from always right, but they will add DTW and MSP to the Far East flights via the 787, then bolster other major US markets to NRT and onwards in parallel.

So, if you're in a top US market NW can still compete for your business nonstop NRT and onwards to China and other both primary and secondary Asian destinations one-stop. If you're in South Bend, IN, you connect via DTW and MSP with one stop to major Asian markets but two-stop to secondary ones. I think secondary Asia markets will still be serviced by way of NRT.

I think that's a decent approach. One stop to everywhere in Asia from major markets, two-stop from everywhere else in the United States.

NS
 
columba
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RE: NW 747 Freighter Status

Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:12 am

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 17):
Is the 777 freighter a possibility for them? Do they need the additional cargo volume the 747 freighter provides?

I think the 747-8F offers more advantages for them. The 777F would be a new type but they already operate 747s.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong