vbeltraJJ
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:13 am

New MAD Flight By JJ

Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:03 pm

Sorry folks, only in portuguese for now.

Solicito considerar seguinte NOVO serviço internacional TAM entre Brasil e Espanha;

BRASIL - ESPANHA

Período 28/Dezembro/2007 (inclusive) ATÉ NOVO AVISO:
• TAM-8064 opera freq DIÁRIA equipo A-330 GRU 1910 MAD 0805 (+1)

Período 29/Dezembro/2007 (inclusive) ATÉ NOVO AVISO:
• TAM-8065 opera freq DIÁRIA equipo A-330 MAD 1055 GRU 1835

Observações:
1) Todos os horários expressos EM HORA LOCAL;
2) MAD = Aeroporto de Barajas - MADRID (Espanha);
3) Equipamento A-330 (42C, 171Y);
4) Operação em MADRID no Terminal 1
5) Fuso: Brasil = UTC - 2
Espanha = UTC + 1

Cheers,

Victor
 
IberiaA319
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:40 pm

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:12 pm

An excellent move, as expected. Well, with IB having 14 weekly flights, the demand is definitely there, and after the demise of Varig, there's almost no competion (just the Air China flight 4x weekly).

It will be nice to see TAM's A330s here in Madrid.
 
dellatorre
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:07 pm

That is indeed great news for TAM. They are carefully planning their new international destinations, taking the right steps into establishing themselves in the European market. It takes much more than a handful of plain 767s to offer good & reliable service, and that is what TAM is after. Not adding destinations as a matter of proud, trying to become something that they're not. Just take a look at JJ & RG load factors and you see what I'm all about.

Anyways, this new Madrid service will give a great boost to JJ's share in the int'l trafic from Brazil. IB competition will be fierce, now that they offer double daily flights to GRU, but JJ has everything to earn its spot in this market.

Looks like Air China flight won't last long after JJ & RG come into action with IB. Also heard Air Europa is seeking to commence its own flight to GRU next year.

After MAD, I expect TAM to finally turn the attention into the US market, specially at GIG-MIA & GRU-LAX.
 
Neo
Posts: 730
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:21 am

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:02 am

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 2):
Not adding destinations as a matter of proud, trying to become something that they're not. Just take a look at JJ & RG load factors and you see what I'm all about.

Pointless comparisson... RG and JJ are in a total different situation. RG is trying to secure its slots flying whatever then can to their destinations...intending to launch a new product in sequence. JJ is established as Brazil's international carrier, with a wide and mature domestic network and now trying to further develop its international services.

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 2):
Anyways, this new Madrid service will give a great boost to JJ's share in the int'l trafic from Brazil. IB competition will be fierce, now that they offer double daily flights to GRU, but JJ has everything to earn its spot in this market.

Competiton will indeed be fierce, and JJ will have to offer competitive fares to MAD, at least until it is established in this route....

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 2):
Looks like Air China flight won't last long after JJ & RG come into action with IB. Also heard Air Europa is seeking to commence its own flight to GRU next year.

I don't think so.. Air China relies also in pax going to PEK.. not only MAD.. in fact I think the majority of pax and going to China.. and as trade between Brazil and Chinal only tends to increase, I would say they got nothing to worry about..

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 2):
After MAD, I expect TAM to finally turn the attention into the US market, specially at GIG-MIA & GRU-LAX.

Must needed flights..!!!

Rgs,

Neo
 
dellatorre
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:56 am

Quoting Neo (Reply 3):
I don't think so.. Air China relies also in pax going to PEK.. not only MAD.. in fact I think the majority of pax and going to China.. and as trade between Brazil and Chinal only tends to increase, I would say they got nothing to worry about..

Sorry, but your observation is quite naive!! Air China does indeed need GRU-MAD pax to make the flight profitable. Otherwise they would just make MAD as technical stop. Anyways, with the entrance of JJ, RG and possibly Air Europa, CA's 2x week services will be on the line. No question about it. Besides, passengers wanting to fly from Brazil to China have many options through CDG, FRA, MUC, AMS, YYZ and United States.

Quoting Neo (Reply 3):
Competiton will indeed be fierce, and JJ will have to offer competitive fares to MAD, at least until it is established in this route....

Which won't take much time. At least TAM is indeed comitted to their destinations.

Quoting Neo (Reply 3):
Pointless comparisson... RG and JJ are in a total different situation. RG is trying to secure its slots flying whatever then can to their destinations...intending to launch a new product in sequence. JJ is established as Brazil's international carrier, with a wide and mature domestic network and now trying to further develop its international services.

IMO this RG strategy is totally suicidal. No matter if they do succeed in holding their European slots, it will take an enourmous effort to turn RG image into something even close to what they once were. I don't think GOL has what it takes to bring something that will make a difference for RG. So far they haven't. This new product it's simply an "GOL product" disguised as Varig.
 
Neo
Posts: 730
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:21 am

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 4):
IMO this RG strategy is totally suicidal. No matter if they do succeed in holding their European slots, it will take an enourmous effort to turn RG image into something even close to what they once were. I don't think GOL has what it takes to bring something that will make a difference for RG.

In this case Effort = $$$ and that G3 has more than enough to spend and if the strategy up to this point is to secure slots they have very successful at it. And

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 4):
So far they haven't. This new product it's simply an "GOL product" disguised as Varig.

So far having a competitive product is not what RG/GOL intentions... is that so hard to get?? Let's wait until RG/GOL launch their new product than we can discuss if it is "GOL product" or not.

Rgs,

Neo
 
TYCOON
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:20 pm

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:18 am

I agree with Neo and have to disagree with Dellatorre. I strongly doubt that Air China depends on the GRU-MAD leg for its China services. It is a stop, and since they benefit from traffic rights between GRU and MAD, why not use them? If they really needed to fill those planes between MAD-GRU, you would expect them to offer very competitive fares but when I checked, they are not the cheapest on this leg. I think that given the fact trade is on the increase between Brazil and China, Air China will continue to benefit from direct flights between the two countries.
 
Copacabana
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 10:56 am

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:44 am

Quoting Neo (Reply 5):
So far having a competitive product is not what RG/GOL intentions... is that so hard to get?? Let's wait until RG/GOL launch their new product than we can discuss if it is "GOL product" or not.

Gosh don't you have anything else to say!!!!! Everything argue here is about securing the slots. So what if they do it. There's much more to an airline strategy than that. If they don't intend to have an competitive product, like you said, I don't see how can they last much longer in this routes....

About the AirChina, I believe they will have to increase their flights, otherwise, won't survive with only 2x weekly frequencies.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:12 pm

MAD is facing a huge increase in a short period of time... i doubt about profitability of so many flights... IB is selling Y on high season for lower fares than 2 years ago, and now with JJ and RG, competition will be even hard!

Quoting Copacabana (Reply 7):
About the AirChina, I believe they will have to increase their flights, otherwise, won't survive with only 2x weekly frequencies.

Will be 3x weekly shortly.

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 2):
Anyways, this new Madrid service will give a great boost to JJ's share in the int'l trafic from Brazil. IB competition will be fierce,

RG will begin their 2x daily service probably even before JJ !
Will be not any more 16 weekly flights as nowadays, but a huge increase to 38 weekly flights... yields will go down !

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:07 pm

TAM´s service will be anticipated to 21st December.
 
vbeltraJJ
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:13 am

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:21 pm

Very nice news to hear !!! I hope JJ has really good luck on its new destination, despite of the fact that we are gonna have lots of flights to come to Madrid.

Cheers.

Victor
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:00 pm

Now they can take advantage of the huge demand for Christmas.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
rootsair
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:30 am

Will JJ entering the GRU-MAD route mean that IB's codeshare with TAM mercosur to VVI and ASU end?
It would be obvious to route all the TAM Mercosur passengers via JJ but then again IB will lose the only link they still have with Paraguay and Bolivia ....
regards
 airplane  wave 
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
Rafabozzolla
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:20 pm

Just an observation. With the opening of FRA and MAD (on top of LHR, CDG and MXP), JJ´s network in Europe is pretty much final. We can´t forget that the code-share with TP to the other important market (LIS) is already in place. There would be some demand (maybe) for AMS, ZRH and CPH, but the main markets are covered. I think their strategy now is to increase frequency.

Let´s see now what is their next long haul destination. As long as I´m guessing... LAX, specially with the upcoming UA codeshare.
 
LH506
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:48 am

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:42 pm

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 13):
Just an observation. With the opening of FRA and MAD (on top of LHR, CDG and MXP), AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ´s network in Europe is pretty much final. We can´t forget that the code-share with TP to the other important market (LIS) is already in place. There would be some demand (maybe) for AMS, ZRH and CPH, but the main markets are covered. I think their strategy now is to increase frequency.

Let´s see now what is their next long haul destination. As long as I´m guessing... LAX, specially with the upcoming SA)">UA codeshare.

Europe:
I would guess a second LHR flight with an onward to CPH, since it is a *Hub, a second FRA/MUC maybe even from GIG
Additional cities in Europe: Maybe a combined BRU/AMS would work or second flight to Italy FCO??

SA)">NA:
LAX definately and then further out in the future IAD or ORD to connect better into UAs domestic network.
MEX but probably too much competition with Ocean, RG and AM

SA:
UIO/GYE 3-4 times weekly
BOG is still missing but too much competition on that route

Maybe one day NRT, PEK, LAD or JNB
NOT FLOWN: 707 736/9 77L 788 300B2 300B4 345 359 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
kiwiandrew

RE: New MAD Flight By JJ

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:53 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 14):
a second FRA/MUC maybe even from GIG

I believe that the new service uses up the last available frequencies between Germany and Brazil ( unless the bilateral changes ...or Varig pulls the plug on its service to Germany )

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