ricardofg
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KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:55 am

Next year KLM will be adding 2 more frequencies to the AMS-YYZ-AMS routing as there will now be 14x weekly starting next spring 2008. Flights are already loaded into reservations, and indicates the late flight to be operated by Airbus A330-200 equipment.

[Edited 2007-10-18 22:55:56]

[Edited 2007-10-18 22:56:36]
 
ricardofg
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:57 am

Sorry I forgot to add this will be starting Spring 2008.
BRGDS
 
HB-IWC
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:00 am

Your information is already outdated. KLM has recently decided to send the B772ER on all fourteen weekly frequencies to YYZ next year. The B744 that has traditionally been deployed to YYZ will be used to JFK, as a compensation for the cancellation of the third daily roundtrip. The A332 that was planned for the evening flights to YYZ will now go to IAD, which has seen B772ER this summer.
 
ACDC8
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:59 am

Did KLM operate 2x daily out of YYZ in the '90s?
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76er
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:45 am

Any chance the early flight could be a -300?
 
HB-IWC
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting 76er (Reply 4):
Any chance the early flight could be a -300?

Not scheduled so far. The B77Ws are going to GRU, KIX and DXB according to the lastest information, although it would schedule wise be possible to interchange the DXB (KL427) and YYZ (KL691) flights. I'm pretty sure there will be further adjustments though, so this is by no means set in stone.
 
76er
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:39 am

You're right. From what I understand the full pax 744 (KL691) is nearly always packed to the gills. That's why I was wondering about the -3.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:59 am

Quoting 76er (Reply 6):
From what I understand the full pax 744 (KL691) is nearly always packed to the gills.

Although KLM is indeed hauling a lot of passengers on the YYZ route, the afternoon flight has regularly been downgraded to a combi B74E this summer because of the extra capacity with the new evening flight. I guess that the airline has decided that a double daily B772ER is an optimal configuration for YYZ.

Quoting 76er (Reply 6):
That's why I was wondering about the -3.

I would also expect that YYZ would be one of the prime candidates for the new B77W, and actually, I don't understand why the aircraft is being deployed to DXB and GRU during the northern summer season, when loads are lighter to those destinations and the usual B772ER would provide more than enough capacity. I'd have guessed that KLM would deploy the new aircraft to destinations like KIX, SFO, YYZ and JFK for the summer and GRU, CPT and DEL for the winter.
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:54 pm

With the loads doing so well I have been wondering if Martinair will decide to step up. It looked nice to see so many 747 tails again at YYZ with BA, AF, KLM all in the other day. The freight that the two 777 will carry will be a big boon to KLM.
 
ricardofg
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:09 pm

Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 8):
With the loads doing so well I have been wondering if Martinair will decide to step up

MP will operate 4x AMS-YYZ weekly next year
 
MSYYZ
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:23 pm

Any idea about the timing of the new twice daily flights ?
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HECA
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:56 pm

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 10):
Any idea about the timing of the new twice daily flights ?

Interested in taking KLM via AMS on your next visit to Egypt?  Wink
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MSYYZ
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:30 pm

Quoting HECA (Reply 11):
Interested in taking KLM via AMS on your next visit to Egypt?

Indeed HECA , i haven't met anybody ( from my surrounding ) here in YYZ who flew KLM on his/her way to Egypt . Mainly because of the very lengthy transit time on the way from Canada to Egypt . The winners are : AF,LH,AZ and to some extent OA (because of the relatively low fares) .
2 X daily may mean less lay-over at AMS , and more options for the pax is always welcomed  Smile ,
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sstsomeday
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:01 pm

I wonder why AC can't manage a frequency to AMS, since KL and MP are increasing theirs? CP flew to AMS way before there was this much demand. If AC had a code-share with KL or was in the same alliance, I'd understand. I believe AC tried to carry it on for a while after CP was purchased but then they discontinued.
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jamincan
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:08 pm

Isn't AMS primarily fueled by transiting passengers? I've always heard that it was a highly VFR route for AC.
 
mk777
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 7):
I'd have guessed that KLM would deploy the new aircraft to destinations like KIX, SFO, YYZ and JFK for the summer and GRU, CPT and DEL for the winter.

so will DEL receive the 772ER or 744 this winter or will the route operate with an MD-11 (the sumer equipment)??

Isn't AMS-IAD for a few months in winter be flown with NW metal (A333)???
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flyyul
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:51 pm

KLM has been flying the double daily already for a year, but the 2nd frequency was 5 weekly.

The second frequency now goes to daily. The seats balance year over year, because the 74Combi was flying 4 times a week last summer. So the 2 extra 777's weekly + the capacity increase of 772 vs Combi makes seats roughly equal to last year's offering.

I wonder what the cargo revenue impact will be as well.
 
JAGflyer
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:54 am

The YYZ-AMS-YYZ flights are mainly cnx pax. Most people on those flights are transiting to the Middle East, Africa and Asia. Toronto has a very large population from these countries and therefore the flights are very full.
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HB-IWC
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:48 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 15):
so will DEL receive the 772ER or 744 this winter or will the route operate with an MD-11 (the sumer equipment)??

AMS DEL goes B744 for the winter and MD11 for the summer.

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 15):
Isn't AMS-IAD for a few months in winter be flown with NW metal (A333)???

AMS IAD is being downgraded to A332 and it looks as if the B772ER will not return next winter as the A332 is programmed throughout the summer. For a while, NW was programmed to take over AMS IAD for 2 months, but this has been changed and NW will now operate AMS EWR between early January and the middle of March. The MD11 that KLM is freeing up at EWR will move to JFK and the B772ER from JFK to YYZ, allowing KLM to put one B744, from the YYZ route, through a D check.
 
sstsomeday
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:54 pm

Quoting Jamincan (Reply 14):
Isn't AMS primarily fueled by transiting passengers? I've always heard that it was a highly VFR route for AC.

(What does VRF mean in this context, since I've only understood it to me "Visual Flight Rules?)

I see your point about AMS being largely a transfer hub. The Dutch have, over the years, created a large airline and a large airport for a relatively small country. The Dutch have always taken aviation very seriously; I believe KL is about 80 years old; pretty much the oldest scheduled airline in the world. AMS is very efficient from what I understand, and a lot of trans-Atlantic passengers transfer there to points East. (I've used the airport several times, but not to transfer. My relatives live there.) I'm also impressed how KL managed to use their large fleet of 747s so well, even though they don't have the same demand of a LHR or and CDG or a FRA, by way of the "combi." It seems, since the advent of commerical aviation, the Dutch were determined to be players, and so they are.

So, thanks for answering my question of why AC can't seem to manage a YYZ-AMS flight. It's probably easier for KLM to operate flights from North America to AMS than for North American airlines to do so, because KLM passengers can transfer to an extensive KL network for their second leg. And AC being Star Alliance, there can be no cooperation for AC passengers to transfer to KL in AMS.
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MSYYZ
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:06 pm

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 19):
(What does VRF mean in this context, since I've only understood it to me "Visual Flight Rules?)

It is VFR , Visiting Family and Relatives .
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JRadier
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:19 pm

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 17):
The YYZ-AMS-YYZ flights are mainly cnx pax.

Don't forget the high level of VFR passengers on the AMS-YYZ-AMS route. There are a lot of dutch immigrants in the area.
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Viscount724
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:02 pm

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 20):
Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 19):
(What does VRF mean in this context, since I've only understood it to me "Visual Flight Rules?)

It is VFR , Visiting Family and Relatives .

The more usual definition is Visiting Friends and Relatives.
 
HECA
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RE: KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332

Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:20 pm

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 10):
Any idea about the timing of the new twice daily flights ?



Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 12):
2 X daily may mean less lay-over at AMS , and more options for the pax is always welcomed

According to Amadeus, the YYZ - CAI flights with KL via AMS look the following:
- KL 692 YYZ dep 18:05, arr AMS 07:15
- KL 696 YYZ dep 22:20, arr AMS 11:30
- KL 553 AMS dep 20:45, arr CAI 02:00

Conclusion: the lay-over between arrival and departure at AMS is still (too) long for convenient traveling.
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