FATFlyer
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United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:33 pm

There has been a thread on flyertalk this weekend discussing that UAX flights between LAX-SNA and LAX-ONT do not show in the schedules after the first of the year.

I checked a couple of places myself and also do not see the routes operating after January 6.

Has anyone heard that these are being dropped? Although short they did seem to do OK.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
san747
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:38 pm

I know of LAX-SNA ending, I talked to a UA ramper at SNA and she confirmed it.
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roseflyer
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:00 pm

I'm not that surprised that they might be going. These routes are almost always filled with connecting passengers. Passengers can transit SFO or DEN, but it was easy to do a simple hop to LAX before continuing to anywhere else in the UA network.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Goldenshield
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:46 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 2):
I'm not that surprised that they might be going. These routes are almost always filled with connecting passengers. Passengers can transit SFO or DEN, but it was easy to do a simple hop to LAX before continuing to anywhere else in the UA network.

With LAX kicking out all of the turboprops, sans Horizon's Q400's, there's nowhere for these planes to go, but elsewhere, or retire.

And the whole Q400 issue was argued a while back. I'm not going to rehash it.
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1011
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 3):
With LAX kicking out all of the turboprops, sans Horizon's Q400's, there's nowhere for these planes to go, but elsewhere, or retire.

Are they kicking turboprops out or are they just making them use the dumpy remote terminal
 
roseflyer
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:06 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 3):
With LAX kicking out all of the turboprops, sans Horizon's Q400's, there's nowhere for these planes to go, but elsewhere, or retire.

Please explain that. I missed the news. Without turboprops how would all the local destinations from LAX like Santa Barbara, Oxnard, Palm Springs, Bakersfield, San Diego, and Monterrey keep service? These are useful routes. It's not like LAX doesn't have the runway capacity. Unless there is fog, there's almost never a delay there.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
flyboy80
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:07 am

If I recall the article correctly, the city had an argument moreorless to the extent that the area occupied by the OO EMBs could be used for bigger and better things, and that Skywest would move their props back to their old location...who knows. I know at QX, we still haven't fully commited to LAX as a hub because of the parking issue, everytime I work an LA flight we usually wait for a gate. Its just too congested over there. Makes me wonder why QX doesn't park a few airplanes over at Eagle gates.
 
pacallen
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:34 am

Wow I didn't even know such short routes even existed... LAX-SNA is only about 45 minutes by car. With connection times and the possibility of flight delays (I assume it's 99.9% connecting pax), it would seem a lot simpler to just drive to/from LAX.
 
ikramerica
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:42 am

Quoting Pacallen (Reply 7):
LAX-SNA is only about 45 minutes by car.

Or 2 hours. Seriously. It's taken me two hours.

This will only lead to more Orange County and Inland Empire people driving to LAX, tying up the roads, the thing LA is complaining about...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
deltairlines
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting Pacallen (Reply 7):
Wow I didn't even know such short routes even existed... LAX-SNA is only about 45 minutes by car. With connection times and the possibility of flight delays (I assume it's 99.9% connecting pax), it would seem a lot simpler to just drive to/from LAX.

A great thing about this flight is for someone who is in the OC quite a bit, I can go to SNA (takes me 15-20 minutes to get there from pretty much any place in Orange County), quickly check-in and clear security (takes no more than 10 minutes) and go get on my plane. I can leave 60 minutes before my flight and still make it. I get to LAX 90 minutes later and wait for my connecting flight.

It could easily take me 90 minutes sitting in the parking lot known as the 405 to make it to LAX. Then, you've got to deal with parking/getting to the terminal (much more congested there), clearing security (can be a bit longer at LAX), etc. It's a lot more user-friendly using the quick 9 minute flight up. I'm gonna miss this short hop (plus, great views of the LA area if sitting on the C side of the Brazzy).
 
PanAm747
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:36 am

For the business traveller, the business will pay for a short hop route - that is generally what these planes are filled with.

American Eagle is a shell of what it used to be in California - SBA, MRY, FAT, and SAN are about all that's left, if I remember. United Express to SFO and LAX is the big business. BFL-LAX is served ONLY by UAx, and I doubt they're going anywhere soon - but it's certainly not being upgraded to an RJ! That would be extremely uneconomical.

SNA and ONT may be gone, but SkyWest's EMB's will still be flying California's skies for a long time!
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LAXintl
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:55 am

Yes LAX-SNA and ONT are gone. Probably a combination of things killed the route including, fuel prices, LAWA legal push to remove prop ops at T-8 and Skywest desire to shrink the EMB120 fleet in favor of larger jets.

UA/UAX are making other long term changes changes as well that will see lots of 3 class ExPlus CRJ-700s based at LAX and discussed in another thread last week. -- For our San Diego friends you'll even see a few CR7s on LAX-SAN as soon as Feb08 IIRC mixed in with the EMBs.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
roseflyer
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:41 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 10):
For the business traveller, the business will pay for a short hop route - that is generally what these planes are filled with.

Ok someone would pay for the route, but given the position of LAX, how would that really help a business traveller. LAX is still a good distance from downtown LA, or other business areas. LAX is next to the beach but is surrounded by a lot of residential areas except for the businesses right near the airport. I don't think anyone would want to go through the effort of flying SNA/ONT-LAX. It can take the same amount of time to get to downtown LA from LAX as it does from ONT driving.
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JayDub
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:34 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 10):
SNA and ONT may be gone, but SkyWest's EMB's will still be flying California's skies for a long time!

Ummm...yeah....about that.

23 Brasilia's pretty much covers the entire LAX system fleet.
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buzz100ca
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:08 pm

Losing that many EMB routes from LAX is pretty scary for us in OO's smaller markets. Please let MOD-LAX continue!!!!  pray 
 
avi8tir
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:08 pm

I never understood LAX-SNA. Its definitely faster to drive to LAX when you consider connecting times.
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SuseJ772
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:14 pm

Quoting Pacallen (Reply 7):
Wow I didn't even know such short routes even existed... LAX-SNA is only about 45 minutes by car. With connection times and the possibility of flight delays (I assume it's 99.9% connecting pax), it would seem a lot simpler to just drive to/from LAX.



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 9):
It could easily take me 90 minutes sitting in the parking lot known as the 405 to make it to LAX. Then, you've got to deal with parking/getting to the terminal (much more congested there), clearing security (can be a bit longer at LAX), etc. It's a lot more user-friendly using the quick 9 minute flight up. I'm gonna miss this short hop (plus, great views of the LA area if sitting on the C side of the Brazzy).

Bingo! I did the ONT-LAX route numerous times becuase getting to and in/out of ONT is so much easier than LAX. Given peek driving times (which in LA is pretty much between 6 am to 9 pm), these short hop flights were a life saver if you lived anywhere near the alternative airports. (Plus, it ain't bad getting 500 FF miles for a 47 mile flight).
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MDW22L31C
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:43 pm

Maybe UA can add 2 ONT-ORD flights back.

or Xjet can make the ONT-LAX, SNA LAX runs
 
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KLM11
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:19 pm

Let's hope that CLD doesn't go as well, seeing that AA dropped the same route years back. Every time I fly CLD-LAX the flight is at least to 70% capacity, and its not uncommon to see more gold UA tickets and priority luggage tags than not...

--KLM11
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LAXdude1023
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8):
Or 2 hours. Seriously. It's taken me two hours.

Much like everything else in Southern California, it just depends on traffic. Traffic in LA and OC is hell on earth. But without traffic ive done it in 35 minutes. However most of the time traffic is horrible on the 405.
It is what it is...
 
PanAm747
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:38 pm

Quote:
Ok someone would pay for the route, but given the position of LAX, how would that really help a business traveller. LAX is still a good distance from downtown LA, or other business areas. LAX is next to the beach but is surrounded by a lot of residential areas except for the businesses right near the airport. I don't think anyone would want to go through the effort of flying SNA/ONT-LAX. It can take the same amount of time to get to downtown LA from LAX as it does from ONT driving.

For the busy business traveller who has a meeting in Orange County, being able to use much less crowded SNA and still use the large numbers of flights available at LAX can be quite valuable. If you have never experienced rush hour traffic on the 405, it is beyond description as to how crowded and slow it can be. What might be a twenty minute drive in ideal circumstances could turn into a multiple hour ordeal. I know - it has happened to me. I do dances of joy knowing that ExpressJet lets me bypass the ordeal of driving through Los Angeles to get visit family in Bakersfield.

As for the "effort" of flying out of SNA to do SNA-LAX, ten minutes of security at a smaller station such as SNA or even SAN sure beats the hour plus at LAX!! The time saved by business travellers is not just on the freeways - it's at the airport as well!
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access-air
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:00 pm

Guys, is this really any kind of surprise to anyone???? Major airports all over are doing this very thing...I wonder if the airlines are planning on adding flights with full size jets or are they simply going to replace the EMB 120s with those God Forsaken 50 Passenger CRJs that fully loaded cant carry anymore than a fully loaded EMB 120????
To me it just seems like airlines have no interest in serving smaller communities PERIOD!!!!
The prevailing mentality says that it doesnt matter to cut off smaller communities because allegedly they contribute little or nothing the the whole picture. This kind of thought and action further isolates smaller cities from the transportation options that the "large cities" seem to enjoy in abundance....

I wonder if a local service PROP airline wanted to start service into LAX from smaller cities if they would even be allowed because the LAX board has convinced themselves that they have bigger fish to fry......or more appropriately, bigger planes to fly.....I am surprised major airports have not banned ALL Propeller planes from landing on their property....

I certianly hope that UAL rethinks this stupid move.....

Access-Air
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as739x
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:11 pm

Quoting MDW22L31C (Reply 17):

Xjet on those route would be a suicide mission for a company that just post a loss last quarter. The economics of a regional jet on such a route would lose money as the route is announced.

Quoting 1011 (Reply 4):

Horizon is not effected by the move of props to remotes. The issue with United, and LAXINTL can clear it up better, was that a clause with the original move was they could be moved back to remotes by the airport. With American I think it was their choice to build the commuter terminal, but will now need to relocate it.

Horizon will continue to use T-3 gates, but arises a problem of little room for expansion. Horizon has looked at LAX-SAN/PSP,etc. But couldn't offer frequency operating out of so few gates. The Q400's continue to come for Horizon, along with the returning CR7's. You will see more in LAX.

ASSFO
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Goldenshield
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 21):
wonder if the airlines are planning on adding flights with full size jets or are they simply going to replace the EMB 120s with those God Forsaken 50 Passenger CRJs that fully loaded cant carry anymore than a fully loaded EMB 120????

Last I checked, a 50 passenger CRJ can carry more than a 30 passenger EMB-120, which is more often than not restricted to 28 due to high passenger weights.
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daron4000
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:37 pm

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 21):
Guys, is this really any kind of surprise to anyone???? Major airports all over are doing this very thing...I wonder if the airlines are planning on adding flights with full size jets or are they simply going to replace the EMB 120s with those God Forsaken 50 Passenger CRJs that fully loaded cant carry anymore than a fully loaded EMB 120????
To me it just seems like airlines have no interest in serving smaller communities PERIOD!!!!
The prevailing mentality says that it doesnt matter to cut off smaller communities because allegedly they contribute little or nothing the the whole picture. This kind of thought and action further isolates smaller cities from the transportation options that the "large cities" seem to enjoy in abundance....

I wonder if a local service PROP airline wanted to start service into LAX from smaller cities if they would even be allowed because the LAX board has convinced themselves that they have bigger fish to fry......or more appropriately, bigger planes to fly.....I am surprised major airports have not banned ALL Propeller planes from landing on their property....

I certianly hope that UAL rethinks this stupid move.....

Access-Air

I think one of the largest factors here is that with LAWA being so stubborn and kicking props out of United's T8 at LAX, it no longer becomes convenient for those people making the connection to LAX (since the route has no O+D) since they have to switch terminals from the remote terminal and its easier for them to drive. Now the route is uneconomical and not worth it for UA. I doubt it is their fault since it is not like they need these planes for other routes, rather it is the government making a stupid decision (putting pressure on UA to release some of its gate space) and UA reacting by introducing other routes with CRJ-700 to keep the gate space but hurting those passengers in smaller markets.
 
Mcmax
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 10):
American Eagle is a shell of what it used to be in California - SBA, MRY, FAT, and SAN are about all that's left, if I remember.

Actually, Eagle still serves SFO and SJC from SNA.
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Boston92
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting McMax (Reply 25):
Actually, Eagle still serves SFO and SJC from SNA

Eagle still has the ERDs/Saabs from SBP to LAX as well.
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Matt D
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:16 am

Oh to go back to the good ol' days.

http://x-2000r.angelcities.com/images/Skywest.JPG

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MDW22L31C
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:26 pm

Will UA place mainline back on ONT-SFO?
 
planespotting
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RE: United Express Ending LAX To SNA And ONT?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 21):
To me it just seems like airlines have no interest in serving smaller communities PERIOD!!!!

While you're mostly correct about airlines' apprehension to serve small communities, Orange County could hardly be described as a small community.
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