AlitaliaMD11
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Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:39 am

I had read a couple of months ago that Air New Zealand planned on reconfiguring their 767-300 fleet to match the same product that they have on board their 777-200 fleet and some of the 747-400 fleet.

I'm curious if anyone has any updated information on how it is going?

I'm looking into flying Air New Zealand over the summer from LAX to NAN and am curious to know what the Y product will be like then.

Thanks!


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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:47 am

The interior upgrades are starting around the same time as the A320 interior upgrades. This is due to start around March-May. The Y B763 product this summer will be the current interior.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Thread starter):
match the same product that they have on board their 777-200 fleet and some of the 747-400 fleet.

All the B744s have the same new product
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kiwiandrew

RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
The interior upgrades are starting around the same time as the A320 interior upgrades. This is due to start around March-May. The Y B763 product this summer will be the current interior.

according to NZ website it was supposed to happen in the second half of 2008 , have they brought it forward ?

http://www.airnz.co.nz/aboutus/media...nt_upgrade_a320s_b767s_26jun07.htm

The upgrade work will be undertaken in the second half of 2008 by Air New Zealand Technical Operations, with consideration being given to both Auckland and Christchurch bases.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:15 am

But there won't be any business premier as far as I know. Just Y+ and Y to suit the markets they serve and the distances they now cover.

Regards
MH
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2):

Sorry, the second half sounds right
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anstar
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:21 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 3):
But there won't be any business premier as far as I know. Just Y+ and Y to suit the markets they serve and the distances they now cover.

What happens to places like SYD. It see's quite alot of 767 traffic now
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting ANstar (Reply 5):
What happens to places like SYD. It see's quite alot of 767 traffic now

Why would that change when there are no aircraft to replace them?
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:31 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 6):
Why would that change when there are no aircraft to replace them?

Well if they are only getting Y and Y+ it would mean a huge reduction in J capacity from air NZ on the SYD-AKL route.
this route is probably the one that can really support the J cabin!

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 3):
But there won't be any business premier as far as I know. Just Y+ and Y to suit the markets they serve and the distances they now cover.
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:34 am

Quoting ANstar (Reply 7):
this route is probably the one that can really support the J cabin!

Good point. I may be wrong in the final outcome, but an enhanced Y+ is not far short of the short-medium haul J product and an increase in capacity will allow more people to travel it for the shorter routes.
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 8):
Good point. I may be wrong in the final outcome, but an enhanced Y+ is not far short of the short-medium haul J product and an increase in capacity will allow more people to travel it for the shorter routes.

Perhaps NZ will look at selling Y+ on the 767 as J. I mean, it will probably be similar to the A320 J product that is currently on the route? I just think NZ need to have a J offering to be able to compete fully with QF.

I guess they could then sell it as Y+ on HNL etc
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:15 pm

Quoting ANstar (Reply 9):
Perhaps NZ will look at selling Y+ on the 767 as J. I mean, it will probably be similar to the A320 J product that is currently on the route? I just think NZ need to have a J offering to be able to compete fully with QF.

They might configure it 2x2x2 on the 767, with the extra legroom (37'?). WIth the high stnadard of catering in y+ on long haul, J/Y+ hybrid should be reasonably compeditive.

Are the NZ 767s just getting new seats or are NZ doing the 777-style overhead bin modifications as well?

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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:45 pm

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 8):

Good point. I may be wrong in the final outcome, but an enhanced Y+ is not far short of the short-medium haul J product and an increase in capacity will allow more people to travel it for the shorter routes.

And as a premium eco flyer from Sydney to the America/London you don't have to sit in eco anymore for the Tasman section. Something that is very annoying when flying from Sydney, while MEL and Brissi get a proper premium eco on a wide body.
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:01 pm

The vast majority of Qantas Trans Tasman flights feature domestic J seats anyway.
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting Miami1 (Reply 12):
The vast majority of Qantas Trans Tasman flights feature domestic J seats anyway.

Yeah and that doesn't even look like it has the same space as our premium economy.... it's a disgrace.
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 10):
They might configure it 2x2x2 on the 767, with the extra legroom (37'?). WIth the high stnadard of catering in y+ on long haul, J/Y+ hybrid should be reasonably compeditive.

I reckon that config would be an excellent choice. Hopefully they dont get any ideas about 2-3-2 for Premium Y on the 767!
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:16 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 10):
They might configure it 2x2x2 on the 767, with the extra legroom (37'?).

NZ Y+ has a 39" pitch. Would be great 2x2x2 on the 763's and 3x2 on the 320's.

Regards
MH
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:35 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 3):
But there won't be any business premier as far as I know. Just Y+ and Y to suit the markets they serve and the distances they now cover.

Thats right. No Business Premier, just Y and Y+.

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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:41 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 16):
That's right. No Business Premier, just Y and Y+.

Thanks for confirming that. I was involved in a Frequent Flyer Q&A and that was my recommendation when posed with a few possible scenarios.

MH
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:02 am

Do we think that J will stay J on the A320's also? would make sense to have a Y/Y+ short haul and offer the great J flat beds just for long haul?
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:04 am

Quoting ANstar (Reply 18):
Do we think that J will stay J on the A320's also? would make sense to have a Y/Y+ short haul and offer the great J flat beds just for long haul?

I still think the A320 J class seats should be used as Y+ throughout the entire fleet, kind of like what QF is doing. But I understand it will be qa very costly thing if done so.

Anyway, when will the whole AVOD on the 763s and 320s be complete? Will it be touch screen etc etc...?
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:20 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 19):

The IFEs will be the same as the long haul type
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 20):

You sure? Because it was mentioned somewhere that its a different system and manufacturer
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:23 am

Quoting ANstar (Reply 18):
Do we think that J will stay J on the A320's also?

The short-medium haul international fleet, IE the 763's and A320's, is being standardised with Y+ and Y with AVOD IFE (pretty sure this will be the same as on the rest of the fleet).
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:47 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 21):

You sure? Because it was mentioned somewhere that its a different system and manufacturer



Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 22):
The short-medium haul international fleet, IE the 763's and A320's, is being standardised with Y+ and Y with AVOD IFE (pretty sure this will be the same as on the rest of the fleet).

I seem to recall that Rockwell Collins is goneski and that Panasonic will be the new IFE supplier.... (NZ1/someone care to confirm/deny?)
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 23):
I seem to recall that Rockwell Collins is goneski and that Panasonic will be the new IFE supplier.... (NZ1/someone care to confirm/deny?)

Yea I remember that too...
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:00 am

Yes NZ1, but my understanding is that Y and Y+ will come out of the existing economy cabin, and that Business Class (but not lie-flat Business Premier) will remain on all A320 and B767 aircraft.

Also, my understanding is that the enhanced Economy seats with extra legroom will be marketed as Economy class, not Premium Economy, but that they would be offered in order to:

1) to people with Premium Economy long-haul tickets
example 1: a U class pax from LHR to SYD via AKL (where there is no Premium Economy cabin on the AKL-SYD sector),
example 2: a U class passenger from AKL to LAX, who elects to fly on the 767 service via NAN or RAR on the return, (where no Premium Economy cabin is available).

2) to point-to-point passengers with high economy sub-class tickets (YBHM classes), then

3) to Air NZ frequent flyers according to status.

Passengers in Category 1 have been complaining vehemently that a 2000 pound (NZ$5000) ticket from London to Auckland offers only Economy seating on 767 services via the Pacific. The new enhanced offering won't require any change to catering but will allow these passengers to enjoy more spacious seating.

The 8 A320 Business Class seats and the 24 B767 Business Class seats are supposed to be unaffected, except for an improved AVOD system.
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 22):
The short-medium haul international fleet, IE the 763's and A320's, is being standardised with Y+ and Y with AVOD IFE (pretty sure this will be the same as on the rest of the fleet).



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 23):
I seem to recall that Rockwell Collins is goneski and that Panasonic will be the new IFE supplier.... (NZ1/someone care to confirm/deny?)

Panasonic is the supplier for the 767/A320 upgrade. Rockwell Collins is on the 777/744.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 25):
Yes NZ1, but my understanding is that Y and Y+ will come out of the existing economy cabin, and that Business Class (but not lie-flat Business Premier) will remain on all A320 and B767 aircraft.

Business Class is going. Y and Y+ only Koruman.

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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:30 am

Thanks NZ1, but that raises a number of serious problems, doesn't it?

Most of the capacity from Auckland to Brisbane and Melbourne is provided by 747 and 777 aircraft, which means that the airline can still compete effectively in selling Business Class and Premium Economy class tickets from MEL/BNE to LAX/SFO and vice versa.

But Sydney-Auckland is almost exclusively serviced by A320 and 767 aircraft, which you say will lose their Business Class seating. That in turn wipes out high-yielding Business Class ticket sales between SYD and LAX/SFO.

The front 2 rows on the A320 were sold for a while as Premium Economy on Brisbane services and the experiment was recently dropped as a failure, and they were re-designated Business Class. If it was such a failure, why would Premium Economy in place of Business Class now be brought back so soon across all short-haul and, in the case of 767 services, some long-haul services?

And what about Honolulu and Papeete? Currently on the 767 services you earn (and burn) almost three times as many Airpoints for Business Class flights AKL-PPT and AKL-HNL than on the similar AKL-RAR sector, because the airline can sell out 24 Business Class seats on those sectors with great ease.

Currently the 24 J class seats AKL-HNL sell for $2500 per sector, in other words they gross $60,000 per flight. I can't see how Premium Economy can raise anything like as much revenue on such a sector.

AKL-PPT-AKL are day flights, and to be honest I don't really care if I'll have to fly in Premium Economy. But Honolulu to Auckland is an all-night overnight sector, and I wouldn't fly it on Air NZ if I couldn't get a Business Class seat. Looks like a move to Qantas or Hawaiian Air might be needed.......
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:01 am

Sorry, but this is just nuts.

Insert Premium Economy onto Tasman and Pacific services so that long-haul Premium Economy passengers can sit in a Premium Economy cabin, OK, fine.

But remove Business Class so that passengers on long-haul Business Class tickets flying to SYD/HNL/PPT/RAR/APW/NAN/TBU have to sit in Premium Economy or fly on FJ or TN metal?

This looks like evolution from the nutty low-yield high density 777 configuration - give up on high-yield traffic.

I just hope, almost certainly in vain, that this means that the current unused 777 capacity will be used on AKL-HNL and AKL-PPT, so that Business Class services are not just retained, but enhanced to Business Premier standards.

Maybe the airline might one day honour the undertaking it gave at Papeete at the time of the 777 order that the three class aircraft would be used on LAX-PPT-AKL services. I don't think so.
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:25 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 28):
I just hope, almost certainly in vain, that this means that the current unused 777 capacity will be used on AKL-HNL and AKL-PPT, so that Business Class services are not just retained, but enhanced to Business Premier standards.

I'm sure HNL will get the can eventually anyway. that has been the route most likely to be chopped for a while. As for SYD. NZ103/104 and 105/106 are often 772 flights.

I'm thinking that more Y+ seats in lieu of 24 C class. isn't going to affect it that much, it'll still be C class meals etc as per longhaul, and more people can afford Y+ than C, so I reckon if they have 30-32 U seats their yields aren't going to be any worse than 24 C seats - especially for HNL which is never really full up front. The C class on the 763 is barely any bigger than premium economy anyway.
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koruman
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:28 am

Honolulu is a viable route which is not being appropriately managed. Frequency is inadequate and connections are poor.

Multiple airlines successfully fly there from Sydney (QF/JQ/HA/AC) and it worked for Air NZ as a refuelling stop.

Sure, there are cabotage problems with a HNL-USA sector, but I can't see why Air New Zealand, with such strong advance bookings for AKL-YVR, doesn't extend Auckland-Honolulu on to Toronto.

Alternatively, the 787-9 or 777-200LR are capable of flying AKL-HNL-LHR.
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 30):
Multiple airlines successfully fly there from Sydney (QF/JQ/HA/AC) and it worked for Air NZ as a refuelling stop.

HNL does not work for Qantas...It is full of Low Yeild passengers in Economy and Frequent Flyers using rewards for booking. Look for JQ to take this route over...as they are performing very well SYD-HNL.

Cheers
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:52 am

Airnewzealand,
I would have agreed, except for the fact that Air Canada's 777-200LR (which NZ should have bought) will be flying Vancouver-Sydney non-stop shortly, which will release their Business Class traffic to Qantas.

But as you have written, SYD-HNL works well for Jetstar, and I might add for Hawaiian too. I should also add that while the Qantas 747-300, and more recently A330 has filled its Business Class seats on SYD-HNL, Jetstar is having major problems selling its "Star Class" Premium Economy seats on that sector - a model which NZ1 suggests Air NZ intends to roll out.

Until NZ1 wrote that the A320 and 767 are losing their Business Class seats, I had been hoping that Air New Zealand would use Zeal320 to fly AKL-NAN-HNL four times weekly, which would retain the same capacity as the current AKL-HNL twice weekly 767.
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 28):
This looks like evolution from the nutty low-yield high density 777 configuration - give up on high-yield traffic.

Perhaps NZ have realised they are not getting a big enough slice of the high yeild traffic and are now focussing on where they are getting the volumes and yields
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:59 am

From Air NZ's press releases:

Over the next 18 months, Air New Zealand will progressively introduce changes including a more spacious section of economy seating, new state-of-the art in-flight entertainment services and new food and beverage menus.

Mr Thompson said Air New Zealand would also alter the configuration on its 767 and A320 aircraft to create greater seat pitch at the front of the aircraft, where frequent fliers often travel, without affecting the pitch at the back of the aircraft. This will be achieved through the removal of a galley on the A320 aircraft and the removal of a row of economy seating on the 767.

Mr Thompson said that the first six economy rows (36 seats) of the A320 aircraft and the first seven economy rows (50 seats) of the 767 aircraft will have increased seat pitch, from 30-31 inches to 35 or more inches.

**********There is nothing there to suggest that this forward area is Premium Economy Class, rather than enhanced Economy, and nothing whatsoever to suggest that Business Class is being removed.

[Edited 2007-10-24 20:01:26]
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:21 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 34):
*******There is nothing there to suggest that this forward area is Premium Economy Class, rather than enhanced Economy, and nothing whatsoever to suggest that Business Class is being removed.

I'll be honest with you, I wasn't aware of C being replaced bu Y+ until this thread. I work in a position for the company where I'm surprised I haven't heard anything more than the press release you just posted about it.. I'd like to keep C where possible, because that is where I choose to travel mostly.
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 32):
But as you have written, SYD-HNL works well for Jetstar, and I might add for Hawaiian too. I should also add that while the Qantas 747-300, and more recently A330 has filled its Business Class seats on SYD-HNL, Jetstar is having major problems selling its "Star Class" Premium Economy seats on that sector - a model which NZ1 suggests Air NZ intends to roll out.

Until NZ1 wrote that the A320 and 767 are losing their Business Class seats, I had been hoping that Air New Zealand would use Zeal320 to fly AKL-NAN-HNL four times weekly, which would retain the same capacity as the current AKL-HNL twice weekly 767.

Hey Koruman...
You bring up some good points.

The reason the 747-300 was able to fill the J/C cabin was due largely to Frequent Flyer upgrades. This route had the highest amount of available seats for upgrades in the QF system...subseuently allowing the aircraft to go out full. It was also a very popular route for staff travel. Staff regularly occupied around 10 seats in J/C on a flight.

I have not heard about JQ having problems selling its StarClass service on this sector, and shall take your word for it. My only reasoning behind this is because staff at QF still tend to travel on QF metal...and a difference in rewarding for QF FF.

I have never thought of the AC possibility you have come up with and does tend to make sense, but i query, is the JC traffic from HNL or YVR??

Cheers
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 34):
From Air NZ's press releases:

Over the next 18 months, Air New Zealand will progressively introduce changes including a more spacious section of economy seating, new state-of-the art in-flight entertainment services and new food and beverage menus.

Mr Thompson said Air New Zealand would also alter the configuration on its 767 and A320 aircraft to create greater seat pitch at the front of the aircraft, where frequent fliers often travel, without affecting the pitch at the back of the aircraft. This will be achieved through the removal of a galley on the A320 aircraft and the removal of a row of economy seating on the 767.

Mr Thompson said that the first six economy rows (36 seats) of the A320 aircraft and the first seven economy rows (50 seats) of the 767 aircraft will have increased seat pitch, from 30-31 inches to 35 or more inches.

**********There is nothing there to suggest that this forward area is Premium Economy Class, rather than enhanced Economy, and nothing whatsoever to suggest that Business Class is being removed.

From that release, I can understand what you are saying. But, the plans that are coming together for the upgrade work in CHC next year, do not show Business Class. Sorry.

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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:50 am

Well, much as I dislike some of the facts NZ1 gives us, I have to admit that he is invariably right on the money.

Obviously this means that Sydney will get at least one 777 each day (to allow Business Class connections to/from LAX/YVR/SFO/LHR).

Reading between the lines, if I remember rightly the number of 767s in the fleet is currently 5, all owned. Three options for 2008-2010 spring to mind

1) If NZ1/2/5/6 are all operated by 747-400s that frees up two 777-200ERs, which could fly the Trans-Pacific island-hopper and AKL-HNL service. Seems unlikely to me, given the yield problems on the TBU/APW flights.

2) NZ5/6 could remain operated by 777-200ER, which could fly on to Manchester using the current excess capacity.

3) The upgraded 767s with only Premium Economy and Economy could be dedicated to the lowest yielding long-haul package holiday destinations with minimal Business Class demand, namely:
-Osaka
-Tokyo
-Shanghai

This would free up 777s from which the airline could replace economy seats with business and premium economy seats, in order to fly potentially much more profitable routes from Sydney to Los Angeles and onward from Los Angeles, San Francisco and Vancouver to the UK and Europe. I would argue that since significant numbers of European and American Business Class leisure passengers take a stopover at Nadi, Rarotonga, Apia or Papeete their flights should be on aircraft with a Business cabin.

A nice elegant model would be:
767R (32U/ 200Y) routes: AKL-KIX, AKL-NRT, AKL-PVG, AKL-PER, AKL-HNL, AKL-PPT, AKL-Islands-LAX
777R (36J/ 40U/ 180Y) routes: SYD-LAX, AKL-LAX-MAN, AKL-YVR-LHR
747 routes: AKL-HKG-LHR, AKL-LAX-LHR, AKL-SFO
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 38):
A nice elegant model would be:
767R (32U/ 200Y) routes: AKL-KIX, AKL-NRT, AKL-PVG, AKL-PER, AKL-HNL, AKL-PPT, AKL-Islands-LAX
777R (36J/ 40U/ 180Y) routes: SYD-LAX, AKL-LAX-MAN, AKL-YVR-LHR
747 routes: AKL-HKG-LHR, AKL-LAX-LHR, AKL-SFO

Did I not read a while back on this forum that KIX and NRT MUST be served by 777 because of aJL requirement for that?

And does a 772 have the legs for SYD-LAX? Maybe that's a route for the 789 . . .
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koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:46 am

If JAL is so bothered about NRT/KIX they can fly the routes themselves......

Anyway, it's nonsense because comparable routes like Brisbane are flown by JALways with ANCIENT 747-200 classics with no MAGIC or any other sort of in-seat entertainment. How likely would they be to insist that Air New Zealand treat the same passengers to 777 AVOD luxury?

As for the question of SYD-LAX, given that Air NZ is using the 777-200ER for its gay charter SYD-SFO then the answer is obviously yes, and in a higher yield configuration with almost 100 fewer Economy seats the weight issue would be improved further.

V Australia is buying 777-300ERs to fly its SYD-LAX flights, and at maximum payload it has a shorter range than Air New Zealand's 777-200ER.
 
aotearoa
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:23 am

Sorry NZ 1.

I can confirm that the upgrade on the A320 and 767 will include the current number of bussiness class seats on both types. The A320 will lose part of the front galley resulting in tthe current bussinees class seats moving forward to allow extra room for economy seats in front of the emergency exit (35 inch seat pitch). The 767 will lose a row of economy seats in B zone resulting in increased seat pitch in this area.

Panasonic is the IFE vendor. The IFE screen will be a touch sensitive type for selection of movies etc. A handheld unit will also be availbe for use while playing the games or . This product is a generation more advanced than the current 777/747 product.

All in all it should be a sharp product!
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 41):
The IFE screen will be a touch sensitive type for selection of movies etc. A handheld unit will also be availbe for use while playing the games or . This product is a generation more advanced than the current 777/747 product.

Thanks. I remember that being mentioned in another thread

If this is the case than I hope the 763 Business class seats will be upgraded

[Edited 2007-10-25 00:34:14]
 
pilotdude09
Posts: 1335
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:44 am

Quoting Airnewzealand (Reply 36):
The reason the 747-300 was able to fill the J/C cabin was due largely to Frequent Flyer upgrades

A shame that QF took the 743 off the SYD-HNL-SYD route and stuck a 767 on it, which is pretty disgusting for an international aircraft.

So after the 767's go domestic only ops either the new A330's will take over or JQ will take it over completley? Then again i have often seen star class alot cheaper than economy.

Cant wait untill the NZ 767's are upgraded, the sooner that happens the sooner i fly direct between PER and New Zealand. Shame they dont have the odd 777 or 747 running a flight would be a hell of alot better.

But i say and say again NZ do not advertise the PER-AKL flight, it is just as easy for many people to go to Auckland and connect to LAX etc yet its not advertised! Im sure NZ would see even better load factors on the route, but they seem to go out pretty full most nights out of Perth though.
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
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NZ1
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RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:11 am

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 41):
I can confirm that the upgrade on the A320 and 767 will include the current number of bussiness class seats on both types. The A320 will lose part of the front galley resulting in tthe current bussinees class seats moving forward to allow extra room for economy seats in front of the emergency exit (35 inch seat pitch). The 767 will lose a row of economy seats in B zone resulting in increased seat pitch in this area.

Well the last drawings I saw from KH (person running the IFE program), didn't show a Business Class, more of an upgraded economy type product. I will give him a call tomorrow and see if things have changed.

NZ1
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anstar
Posts: 2882
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 32):
Jetstar is having major problems selling its "Star Class" Premium Economy seats on that sector

Well, Star Class is a pretty average product and one I wouldnt compare with NZ's premium economy.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 34):
Mr Thompson said that the first six economy rows (36 seats) of the A320 aircraft and the first seven economy rows (50 seats) of the 767 aircraft will have increased seat pitch, from 30-31 inches to 35 or more inches.


**********There is nothing there to suggest that this forward area is Premium Economy Class, rather than enhanced Economy, and nothing whatsoever to suggest that Business Class is being removed.

Can 7 rows of 35" Premium Economy be stuck in the current Business class zone on a 767-300?

Quoting Koruman (Reply 38):
This would free up 777s from which the airline could replace economy seats with business and premium economy seats, in order to fly potentially much more profitable routes from Sydney to Los Angeles

with V Australia flying this route shortly and A380's coming on line for QF, I reckon NZ would fins it pretty diffficult to compete and make $$$

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 43):
A shame that QF took the 743 off the SYD-HNL-SYD route and stuck a 767 on it, which is pretty disgusting for an international aircraft.

And I'm sure the 767 will be coming off as soon as Jetstar get some more aircraft
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 710
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:43 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 40):
If JAL is so bothered about NRT/KIX they can fly the routes themselves......

Anyway, it's nonsense because comparable routes like Brisbane are flown by JALways with ANCIENT 747-200 classics with no MAGIC or any other sort of in-seat entertainment. How likely would they be to insist that Air New Zealand treat the same passengers to 777 AVOD luxury?

Yes, but here will be a contract involved here and NZ will not want to breach the contract but let it run its course before doing whatever it does next - including, possibly, renewing the arrangement.

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 43):
But i say and say again NZ do not advertise the PER-AKL flight, it is just as easy for many people to go to Auckland and connect to LAX etc yet its not advertised! Im sure NZ would see even better load factors on the route, but they seem to go out pretty full most nights out of Perth though.

NZ timings in and out of Perth would need to change dramatically in order to make AKL a viable connection to/from LAX. The forthcoming summer schedule has the arrival from PER at 0515, and the departure to PER at 1400 - neither of which are effective connections. How about a revision thus:

(a) [Connecting from LAX and SFO, plus YVR some days] then AKL 0730-PER 1105, returning PER 1215-AKL 0040

plus

(b) AKL 2000-PER 2325, returning PER 0600-AKL 1825 [then connecting to LAX and SFO, plus YVR some days]

This does pose serious logistical problems, though. Unless you ran 10 or more flights a week (five a week on each of (a) and (b) there would be no flights at all in one direction on some days but two flights on others (do the math, check my logic). NZ would have to bite the bullet and go for a significant capacity increase by promoting the service heavily as WA's US/Canada connection, with 10 flights a week giving connections five times a week in each direction. The morning service ex AKL could be (say) daily except Mo/Th, returning daily except Mo/Th, and the evening service ex AKL daily except Tu/Fr, retuning daily except We/Sa, allowing at least a daily AKL-PER service in each direction. However, to increase PER services to 10x weekly NZ might run into capacity problems. Then there's the problem of what to do in the low season, when current capacity is down to 5x weekly - to double that might be quite uneconomic in winter.

I recall reading a year or so ago in the press that NZ was trying to figure out how to make PER connections to the US via AKL. So far, they've not done anything. Maybe the difficulties above are why.

The heretical solution (I can feel Koruman's bile already . . . ) might be to give up on the 763 and go for a double-daily all-year round service with a 73G or A319 .

Another heretical solution could be to extend the service from PER to BOM and have a daily summer, 5x weekly winter connection to and from NZ1/NZ2 - but this would also require an extra aircraft. I don't think the aircraft could get back in time to connect to SFO or YVR services ex AKL, though. I await the stones being thrown in my direction . . .
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
VHVXB
Posts: 5309
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:28 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 40):
V Australia is buying 777-300ERs to fly its SYD-LAX flights, and at maximum payload it has a shorter range than Air New Zealand's 777-200ER.

So what NZ would still struggle with the 772 on SYD-LAX. The NZ longhaul product adds a considerable amount weight to the aircraft which would make uneconomical to fly compared to the 77W
 
pilotdude09
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:48 pm

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 46):
I recall reading a year or so ago in the press that NZ was trying to figure out how to make PER connections to the US via AKL. So far, they've not done anything. Maybe the difficulties above are why.

Didnt think about all of that!  Smile but yeah agree with you it may not be worthwhile for NZ to run the services to connect. But then its just as bad flying QF domestically you pretty much have to catch the red eye over to sydney to get a flight in the morning to LAX and some dayy (if not all) have the afternoon flight but you still ahve to be in sydney by lunch timeish. But its a bugger NZ's LAX flight timing doenst work.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 46):
Another heretical solution could be to extend the service from PER to BOM and have a daily summer

Yeah thats good and would open up Perth-India and theres a large indian population here too with gas/mining/fertiliser projects happening!

Theres many options Perth can be used for, PER-JNB, PER-LHR, PER-BOM, they would be obvious ones and markets that would actually work for NZ, as the population and tourist number support it.
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Reconfiguring 767-300 Fleet?

Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 46):
NZ timings in and out of Perth would need to change dramatically in order to make AKL a viable connection to/from LAX.



Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 46):
The heretical solution (I can feel Koruman's bile already . . . ) might be to give up on the 763 and go for a double-daily all-year round service with a 73G or A319 .

We have had the spectacle today of Perth's most famous Aussie Rules player having to overnight in Sydney in order to fly to Los Angeles for rehab.

Qantas doesn't care: it considers itself to be Air Sydney, and if you don't want to change planes (and terminals) at Sydney it can't be bothered flying you.

But Perth is now by far Australia's richest city, and because it is also its most isolated one people do not object to flying long distances for their travel. Any Perth resident would be far more likely to travel 16 hours to Disneyland California ahead of 6 hours to Disneyland Hong Kong.

The obvious routes for Air New Zealand to fly from Perth are AKL-PER-LHR (the 787-9 will be flying PER-LHR for VS) and PER-BNE-LAX. But if that is too courageous, the conservative option is just to shift PER-AKL timetables to connect to AKL-LAX/SFO/YVR.

But there is a big, untapped market from Perth, and Air NZ should try harder to corner it.

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