Max78
Topic Author
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:59 pm

Airbus Or Boeing Failing To Deliver On Time

Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:59 am

We have heard lots of noise recently following A400M and B787 delays announcements (in forums, in the news, magazines, etc..) However, nothing really new !! i remember not too long ago the A380  Smile, Eurofighter or worse.. the Nimrod !

I havent really seen any major AC program on time especially when these introduce either new technologies such as fly by wire, composites among others or new business models such as leveraging the role of suppliers into shared risk program, or the utilisation of multiple CAD/CAM software for the same AC and so on..

And I dont think we will be able to find more than 2 or 3 examples of civil AC delivered on time on quality on budget (maybe Falcon7X ?) and certainly none in the military world.

It is clear that Airbus and Boeing put lots of energy on changing that: they deploy new software, they launch Lots of new processes: Collaborative Design and Supply, Virtual Assembly, Lean Manufacturing, integrated planning ... But still we have seen recently on the B787 that "On time delivery" still fails and there is still a major impact for the manufacturer with penalties, cost explosion, stock drop ..

I am looking for your reaction on that subject and I am also trying to understand a couple of things like:
1- How much is the penalty given by customer to the manufacturer ? in civil/military
2-If this is not new for us, how does airbus' finance or boeing finance anticipate that ?
3-Is the same story going to repeat on the A350 ?!
 
Burkhard
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:34 pm

RE: Airbus Or Boeing Failing To Deliver On Time

Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:09 pm

As far as I learned, Boeing got the 777 out as planned, but I agree that one exception does not falsify a general rule.

AFAIK, the penalties are low in the military section - high penalties in the contract mean that the initial offer just will be more expensive. I also assume that some average penalties already are calculated into the list price, so unless things get really bad they pose no real problem.

The A350? Airbus has a long time to design and build it - 2013 still is far away. If Airbus uses the time until than, they may succeed, but if they don't do their home works now they will regret later - but how was it when we went to school?
 
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Stitch
Posts: 22947
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Airbus Or Boeing Failing To Deliver On Time

Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting Max78 (Thread starter):
1- How much is the penalty given by customer to the manufacturer ? in civil/military

For a commercial program, it depends on the customer. I believe the only data we have if for QF and the A380, and it was less then $200 million, as I recall.

For a military program, at least in the US, there does not seem to be a penalty. The DoD just picks up the tab if the program is written to allow cost-overruns, and the company does if it does not.

Quoting Max78 (Thread starter):
2-If this is not new for us, how does airbus' finance or Boeing finance anticipate that?

They likely set aside money to cover the payments.

Quoting Max78 (Thread starter):
3-Is the same story going to repeat on the A350 ?!

I would not be surprised if it did, but that's just a reflection on how complex modern airliner programs are, and not a slap at Airbus. I would not be surprised if the 737RS program or the 787HGW/Y3 program slips, as well.
 
rigo
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:52 am

RE: Airbus Or Boeing Failing To Deliver On Time

Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:14 pm

As far as I know, the A300 was delivered on time, and it was also a very ambitious and innovative programme at the time.
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: Airbus Or Boeing Failing To Deliver On Time

Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:21 pm

All such issues are addressed in the contractual agreements between the carrier, financiers, and manufacturer.
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