panamair
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Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:25 pm

DL will be adding daily LAX-LIH and LAX-KOA service starting June 2008:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/071023/129394.html

Looks like both will be operated with 757-200s.
 
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mbm3
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:37 pm

That will certainly make it easier for us Skyteamers to get to both amazing destinations rather than the typical 2-3 stops that it now takes.

"Flights will be operated with a mix of Boeing 757-200, 767-300 and 767-400 aircraft" - is it just me or does LIH seem to be a little short for a 767?

[Edited 2007-10-23 07:44:51]
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
HVNandrew
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:40 pm

DL finally getting back to becoming a big player in the Hawaii market. Great news!
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:01 pm

6-hour turnarounds in LIH and KOA, respectively. If the article didn't mention that DL will have a total of 9 flights to Hawaii, one might suspect
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:25 pm

Just for the record, these markets will NOT be operated by the ex-AA 757's. They will instead be operated by the ex-ATA 757's that have been in the DL fleet for years. Those aircraft will be freed up from South America routes by 737-700's.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:29 pm

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 4):
Just for the record, these markets will NOT be operated by the ex-AA 757's. They will instead be operated by the ex-ATA 757's that have been in the DL fleet for years. Those aircraft will be freed up from South America routes by 737-700's.

Interesting, thanks for pointing that out.......as the ex-TW/AA 752s will be getting a BizElite cabin, those airplanes will fly transatlantic services. WIll the 4 ex-ATA/SQ airplanes be based at LAX??
 
fun2fly
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:36 pm

I guess that DL's hub at LAX is coming along quite well and justifies these additions. Interesting to see the after leisure routes (albeit higher revenue ones than HNL) vs. business or APAC/SPAC routes. Have to see how this one plays out as Hawaiian, ATA, others flood the market w/cheap fares and the normal competition from AA, UA, US in PHX, and NW. I give it a 50% shot at working. CO tried OGG and it didn't work out, but NW has HNL from most west coast airports and it must work out, albeit on much more economical and lower CASM 753's. Any other bettors?
 
AV8AJET
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:46 pm

Fantastic news!!!! Always great to see DL adding more service to the beautiful Hawaiian islands!!! Now if we can just kick "GO" out of Hawaii that would be wonderful!

[Edited 2007-10-23 08:47:41]

[Edited 2007-10-23 08:48:12]
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
dutchjet
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:47 pm

Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 6):
CO tried OGG and it didn't work out, but NW has HNL from most west coast airports and it must work out, albeit on much more economical and lower CASM 753's

CO has no one to blame for itself concerning the OGG service, with odd flight times, no feed at LAX, and the ""compromise"" IAH-LAX-OGG routing (replacing the nonstop 767 service from IAH to OGG).......CO basically set itself up for failure. Running the OGG flight with a 752 via LAX was one of those idea that sounded good in theory, but did not work out in real life.

NW does OK on its Hawaiian services.......but the West Coast-Hawaii market is getting very crowded with AS launching flights from SEA and ANC and now DL expanding service out of LAX.

Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 6):
Any other bettors?

DL will make this work, I think, LIH and KOA are big destinations ex-LAX and we are talking one 752 per day. DL is putting together a hub at LAX (even if its based on RJ operations for many many routes) and has a following in the LA area.

I wonder if DL will re-launch the SFO-HNL flight? And, there was so much talk about SLC-Hawaii service....any news on that issue?
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:08 pm

Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 6):
Have to see how this one plays out as Hawaiian, ATA, others flood the market w/cheap fares and the normal competition from AA, UA, US in PHX, and NW. I give it a 50% shot at working. CO tried OGG and it didn't work out, but NW has HNL from most west coast airports and it must work out, albeit on much more economical and lower CASM 753's. Any other bettors?

IIRC, NW flies to KOA from SEA and MSP and not the SoCal area. On LAX-LIH and LAX-KOA nonstops, DL's competition will be UA (2x daily) and AA (1x daily). It is the only SkyTeam option on these routes from the LA area, and like LAX-OGG, I could see CO codesharing on these new services.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
DL will have a total of 9 flights to Hawaii,

..made up of:

LAX-HNL (2x daily)
LAX-OGG
LAX-LIH
LAX-KOA
ATL-HNL (2x daily)
SLC-HNL
SLC-OGG

Quoting Mbm3 (Reply 1):
"Flights will be operated with a mix of Boeing 757-200, 767-300 and 767-400 aircraft" - is it just me or does LIH seem to be a little short for a 767?

757:

LAX-LIH
LAX-KOA

763:

LAX-HNL (2x daily)
LAX-OGG
SLC-OGG

764:
ATL-HNL (2x daily)
SLC-HNL
 
fun2fly
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:56 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 9):
DL will have a total of 9 flights to Hawaii,

They cancelled CVG>HNL? I haven't followed it that closely, but thought that was a route for awhile.
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:11 pm

Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 10):
They cancelled CVG>HNL?

Yes, CVG-HNL was dropped as of mid-August this year...
 
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United_fan
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:46 pm

Quoting Mbm3 (Reply 1):
is it just me or does LIH seem to be a little short for a 767?

UA operates a 763 from the west coast there on occasion.Though, a 764 would be too much for LIH.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
Evan767
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:32 pm

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 4):
Just for the record, these markets will NOT be operated by the ex-AA 757's. They will instead be operated by the ex-ATA 757's that have been in the DL fleet for years.

Looks to me like they will be operated by regular, non-PTV Delta 757s. Looking at the flights, they are showing 24 first class seats. Aren't ex-ATA 22 first class seats?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:39 pm

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 13):
Looks to me like they will be operated by regular, non-PTV Delta 757s. Looking at the flights, they are showing 24 first class seats. Aren't ex-ATA 22 first class seats?

they have to be the ATA birds (they are ETOPS and the reg. 757 are not) but i would guess that they will get PTVs and maybe winglets(DL has options for winglets on all 767-300ERs 757s and 737s)
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
Delta787
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:23 pm

Great to see that Delta's going back to Kona. I only wish this service was starting a little earlier for my upcoming trip to Hawaii.
Fly Delta!
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:01 pm

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 4):
Just for the record, these markets will NOT be operated by the ex-AA 757's. They will instead be operated by the ex-ATA 757's that have been in the DL fleet for years.

Aside from the ex-TWA/AA 752s, these are the only a/c that have ETOPs or can immediate be certified for ETOPs-180. Not the least bit surprised since the ex-TWA/AA are best off being put on JFK-Europe service. Eventually they can meet a longer ETOPs if needs be to do this.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 9):
LAX-HNL (2x daily)
LAX-OGG
LAX-LIH
LAX-KOA
ATL-HNL (2x daily)
SLC-HNL
SLC-OGG

Please note how many are flown from LAX vs. SLC. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, LAX is a MUCH better origin for Hawaii, especially for the outer islands (OGG, KOA, LIH, Hilo) than SLC. While SLC can support some direct Hawaii service, connectivity can only carry it so far. Perhaps when the winter 2008-09 schedule kicks in fully, DL will see fit to originate some outer island flights in SLC with a stop in LAX, since there never seams to be enough SLC-LAX seats anyhow (eliminate a CRJ flight in place of mainline). I think the 752 is a good fit for DL to the outer islands, but all HNL service should remain a 764ER (domestic config') and none-ER763. If SLC-OGG service remains, it wouldn't surprise me if it went to a 752 in the not to distant future pending availability and freight demand etc...
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
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ua2162
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:01 pm

All right! They have said time and time again that they will be back to KOA as they enjoyed full loads in the past but left due to the fact they can make more money with their 764's elsewhere.

Finally! It's official! Welcome back!

I wonder if they'll use AQ again for their handling?
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 9):
I could see CO codesharing on these new services.

As I recall CO has cut back their services to Hawaii. So it is possible, and they can give their customers more Hawaii options.

One other point about SLC-Hawaii. Could DL even get a mainline gate for this flight at an optimal time? That is the other issue facing DL and other carriers now at SLC.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
SANFan
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:14 am

I can't help but think that SAN will see competition on the HNL route next year and I'd sure love to see DL get back in there.

SAN remains the only major west coast city with only 1 n/s flight to HNL -- I do not count UA's sporadic Sat flight. For crying out loud, there are 2 cx flying n/s to OGG from Lindbergh!

bb
 
Rookinla
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
I can't help but think that SAN will see competition on the HNL route next year and I'd sure love to see DL get back in there.

SAN might see another HNL flight but don't look for DL to start this one. DL is working at feeding service through LAX to make the Hawaii routes work more efficiently. Your best chance is possibly daily UA...if that even happens.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 20):
SAN might see another HNL flight but don't look for DL to start this one. DL is working at feeding service through LAX to make the Hawaii routes work more efficiently. Your best chance is possibly daily UA...if that even happens.

Perhaps if GO gets into mainland-island flights you'll see them jump at SAN service. DL is focusing on LAX as it's #1 jumping off point to Hawaii.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
tozairport
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:52 am

Quoting Mbm3 (Reply 1):
is it just me or does LIH seem to be a little short for a 767?

No, it actually does very well. The first trip I had to LIH in a 767 was a surprise. The Captain and I were both expecting a 757 and when we got the paperwork it was obvious from the fuel required and the weights that it was not a 757! Our first question was the same as yours - "can we do that?" In the end, it was really no big deal. We only used 3/4 of the runway with moderate braking. The hardest part was parking the big bird at LIH's double dog-leg gates! A great airplane and an even better location.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
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United_fan
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 4):
They will instead be operated by the ex-ATA 757's that have been in the DL fleet for years

I thought TZ's 752's were RR powered ??
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting United_Fan (Reply 23):
I thought TZ's 752's were RR powered ??

i was looking on Boeings web page and all i can find i ATA having RR powered 757s so does DL have 757s with RR in there fleet?
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
panam330
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 24):
so does DL have 757s with RR in there fleet?

Not a single one. Could these be the ex-SQ 757s? Did ATA get them before DL?
 
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ua2162
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:52 am

Just found out - AQ will handle all ground operations, including agents, at both LIH and KOA.
 
beertrucker
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:16 am

Delta got 4 757-200's from ATA that were P&W. They were ships 6901-6904. They were also Delta's first planes with the good old magic carpet cargo holds. If you look up those planes you can find their reg numbers are N...AT. I even think their are some pics on here of them in ATA's livery.

On a side note. I think it was one of these planes that I first signed my name in the doorway of bin 3.
Fly HI
 
bok269
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:14 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 18):
As I recall CO has cut back their services to Hawaii. So it is possible, and they can give their customers more Hawaii options.

CO currently operates 2x daily IAH-HNL and 1x daily EWR-HNL (I would imagine this route is huge for them-many from the NYC area vacation in HI, and this is the only nonstop option. I flew it back in August, and even in the off-season loads were at 100%). THey also offer service to NGO, GUM, MAJ, and seasonally KWA. Whether that is a reduction I do not know.
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
dutchjet
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 18):
As I recall CO has cut back their services to Hawaii. So it is possible, and they can give their customers more Hawaii options

CO discontinued service to Maui...the nonstop IAH-OGG flight was dropped as the 764ER was needed elsewhere. As an alternative, CO tried a IAH-LAX-OGG flight operated with a 752. That idea did not work out very well and the 752 flight was terminated ending service to OGG; as I mentioned above, the timings of the 752 service were wrong and the one-stop service out of IAH was unpopular. CO has maintained service levels at HNL over the past years.

Quoting United_Fan (Reply 23):
I thought TZ's 752's were RR powered ??



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 24):
i was looking on Boeings web page and all i can find i ATA having RR powered 757s so does DL have 757s with RR in there fleet?



Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 25):
Not a single one. Could these be the ex-SQ 757s? Did ATA get them before DL?

These 4 rather early build 752s with PW engines were ordered by and delivered to SQ; SQ flew the 752s for a rather short period....SQ settled on the A310 for its shorter-haul regional services as pax in Asia overwhelmingly prefer widebody aircraft over narrowbody types. The four 752s were sold to ATA; after acquiring the ex-SQ 752s, ATA began building its own 752 fleet and when it placed orders for new build 752s it specified RR powered airplanes; thus, ATA phased out it PW powered 752s and the four airplanes ended up with DL. Its interesting that these four airplanes went as a set from SQ to ATA to DL.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:11 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 29):
CO tried a IAH-LAX-OGG flight operated with a 752. That idea did not work out very well and the 752 flight was terminated ending service to OGG; as I mentioned above, the timings of the 752 service were wrong and the one-stop service out of IAH was unpopular.

Most people in SLC are accustomed to 1-stop service to Hawaii typically via LAX, although more of them expect direct service to HNL. The outer islands are much more of a challenge for wide-body service being economical beyond California and perhaps SEA. CO just isn't that big in the west anymore after pulling their hub out of DEN 15 years or so ago. Does UA offer 777/767 service to any of the outer islands from DEN or ORD? They are #1 to Hawaii, undisputed.
Does CO codeshare with DL on EWR-HNL? They use a 744 for this one? That could explain in part why DL doesn't offer direct JFK-HNL service.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
LAXintl
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 30):
Does UA offer 777/767 service to any of the outer islands from DEN or ORD?

Yes.

ORD has a daily OGG & KOA flight, while DEN has OGG and KOA weekend service.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008

Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:44 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 31):
ORD has a daily OGG & KOA flight, while DEN has OGG and KOA weekend service.

No surprise here, UA is the undisputed leader in mainland-Hawaii service and has been for over 40 years. If DL starts playing their cards right, perhaps they can once again move back to the number 2 position Western had once upon a time. LAX-KOA/LIH is the right move. I honestly think that SLC direct would backfire on them.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!

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