HVNandrew
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DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:11 am

Last flight is on Jan. 3.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:32 am

They still gonna codeshae with MQ?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:36 am

Never really made sense when there was the MQ codeshare. Was much easier to take one of MQ's 20 daily flights over to LAX (and unlike DL, you can do free standby on these flights to get up to LAX a little bit earlier).
 
Evan767
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:38 am

First LAX-TIJ, then LAX-SAN, what's next, LAX-SBA? (Hopes)
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
elmothehobo
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:46 am

About damn time. Delta/Express Jet was foolish to fly a high CASM RJ on such a short route when they could codeshare with Eagle like they used to.

IIRC Delta still codeshares on MQ ex-LAX.
 
LAXspotter
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:02 am

What the hell, DL was flying the XJ from LAX to SAN? wow, thats seems impractical.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
yvr1968
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:57 am

Looks like YVR service is being chopped as well. Gone is the 1 daily ERJ flight.
On the other hand, UA* is going to increase from 2 daily to 3 daily in mid February...

[Edited 2007-10-29 00:00:49]
 
whoopwhoop
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:02 am

Delta is going to need the gate space in LA soon with the 737-800 base opening. My guess is there will be many more RJ cutbacks. Tito, get me a tissue.  cry 
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:53 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 4):
IIRC Delta still codeshares on MQ ex-LAX.

Do they?

I just pulled the newest e-schedule, and it only shows a single Xjet.  Sad
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting WhoopWhoop (Reply 7):
Delta is going to need the gate space in LA soon with the 737-800 base opening.

DL is opening a 738 base in LAX? Haven't heard of that one yet.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:09 pm

Not surprised to see some of this stuff begin to srop off, it was much too ambitious...ERJs on the 100 LAx-SAN segment is just too much CASM....SAN-LAX is made for props, bigger prop the better.
 
jacobin777
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:54 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 9):
Quoting WhoopWhoop (Reply 7):
Delta is going to need the gate space in LA soon with the 737-800 base opening.

DL is opening a 738 base in LAX? Haven't heard of that one yet.

..got me on that one... confused 
"Up the Irons!"
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 8):
Do they?

I just pulled the newest e-schedule, and it only shows a single Xjet.

I don't recall seeing them listed seperately for quite some time now. They would only appear when you add a connection on the other end.
 
HVNandrew
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:21 pm

Other LAX changes coming in January:

YVR service ends January 2
LAS mainline service switched to all ExpressJet January 15
 
panam330
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:31 pm

So what's the deal with all of the service ending? Is it doing that poorly? Is Xjet pulling some planes? It's odd to see so much service cut/downgraded at once, especially so soon after adding it. I understand that they need to make money, but it's almost as if the services haven't had time to get people attracted to DL in the Los Angeles market.
 
Evan767
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:51 pm

Maybe it's seasonal?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
xjet
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:42 pm

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 14):
Is it doing that poorly? Is Xjet pulling some planes?

Actually we are adding 5 more to LAX. Some of the new routes operated by XE will be from SLC. I am surprised to see the cuts to YVR. That flight seemed to always be full. However, it was only one flight per day. SAN isn't a big surprise though. That one was doomed from the start.
 
SANFan
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:50 pm

I wonder what part in the failure of these 2 flights was due to the confusion of how the flights were id'd and where they op'd from. Case in point, on the SAN.com Flight Info board, the flights show up as XE,

XE 7737 Departure Los Angeles [gate] 3 [departing] 7:30:00 PM

and don't even appear under "Delta's" flights! (I thought at one point the flights op's from DL mainline gates (39-41.)

In any case, it must be very confusing for pax as well as for DL's foreign rez agents (who probably don't even know where San Diego is, let alone how the airport is set up...)

I doubt that this is a seasonal thing, not between SD and LA. I'm always sorry to see anything xld from SAN but these 2 flights are not making a real major impact on aviation as we know it at Lindbergh Field.  Wink

bb
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting XJET (Reply 16):
I am surprised to see the cuts to YVR. That flight seemed to always be full.

What are the chances of mainline SLC-YVR returning anytime soon. I've heard April or May, but with this change could they be contemplating bringing it back sooner? While much of SLC-YVR mainline in the past (I took this flight 3x between Oct 2006 & Dec 2006) mostly was connecting traffic from/to the east (many off to/from FLL to catch the cruise), much of that has been covered I thought with daily 752 service to ATL.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
worldtraveler
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:42 pm

most of DL's RJ builup by Xjet was to prevent LAWA from having a case to take DL's gates and alot of the flying has been done by XE at their risk.

DL is going to redeploy mainline capacity to LAX and will be in a position to offer flights w/ its own metal so the overall situation is win-win for DL.

DL did what they had to do at the time; some of the stuff may not have made sense and may not have made money but it was enough to keep LAWA at bay because their gate agreements only specfied that flights had to be operated by jet aircraft.

Now it's time for DL to order a half dozen 777LRs specifically for int'l growth.
 
xjet
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:49 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 18):
What are the chances of mainline SLC-YVR returning anytime soon. I've heard April or May, but with this change could they be contemplating bringing it back sooner? While much of SLC-YVR mainline in the past (I took this flight 3x between Oct 2006 & Dec 2006) mostly was connecting traffic from/to the east (many off to/from FLL to catch the cruise), much of that has been covered I thought with daily 752 service to ATL.

No clue. I did not realize that route wasn't served. DL doesn't seem to have much of a presence in YVR. If SLC-YVR did return I wouldn't think a 50 seat 145 would cover the demand.
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:34 am

It must be working for AA/American Eagle. The RJ flights as well as Saab flight on the SAN-LAX route. So AA/American Eagle must be making some money off this route. Also, from what I have been hearing in Travel Agent talk is the ExpressJet is not doing very well at all. So DL might be wanting to get away from them before they go under.
 
dl767captain
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:39 am

um wow that was fast. I thought it would be great because i could go from SAN-LAX-ATL and get on the 777 from LAX-ATL, but everytime i tried to make that route it would not let me, i guess it is kind of weird to have a RJ on that route when AA and UA use the EMB-120s. Has anyone heard if they were planning more for CLD?
 
COERJ145
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:51 am

I'm not surprised in the least that this route was dropped. As other posters said, a high CASM RJ would kill yeilds. Also, if DL had wanted to seriously compete against AA and UA, they should have had more frequency(or better timed flights).


Quoting DL767captain (Reply 22):
route when AA and UA use the EMB-120s. Has anyone heard if they were planning more for CLD?

AA uses an ERJ during the busy periods, but mostly uses Saabs. UA will throw in a CRJ or two as well as their EM2s.
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting XJET (Reply 16):
Some of the new routes operated by XE will be from SLC.

I noticed SLC-PHX on the schedule next year.
I love ASO!
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:04 am

Quoting XJET (Reply 20):
No clue. I did not realize that route wasn't served. DL doesn't seem to have much of a presence in YVR. If SLC-YVR did return I wouldn't think a 50 seat 145 would cover the demand.

With all the connecting traffic this route gets, it really requires at least one mainline 738 or MD-90 year around. DL's presence at YVR is minimal, and they do use AC personnel to service their flights. But the high tech market makes this an O&D market as well as SLC being the DL hub for the western part of North America.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
PanAm747
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:31 am

So we were to believe that there was room for 15 EM2's and RJ's on United Express, 10 SF340's, and now five daily ExpressJet EMB145's all to LAX?

Puh-LEEZE!!

Note the sarcasm on the specific number of flights...but the last time I was in the commuter terminal I heard the United Express agent say, "if anyone on the 12:30 flight to LAX would like to go out a little earlier, there is room on the 12:00 flight!!"

SAN-LAX is, quite frankly, ridiculously overserved.

Quote:
About damn time. Delta/Express Jet was foolish to fly a high CASM RJ on such a short route when they could codeshare with Eagle like they used to.

Thank you!!
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
LAXintl
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:38 am

I believe one thing DL under estimated is the lack of local LAX-SAN traffic. The high frequency AA and UA flights serve primarily as feeder services to mainline ops at LAX, something DL is still thin on even with their LAX build up.

I'm not sure if DL believed people would really book SAN-LAX only, or connect to another RJ flight when direct nonstop options on carriers like UA, SWA, HP, AS are quite readily available from SAN.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
azncsa4qf744er
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:40 am

My god, I feel sorry for the agents working there. One day we have service the next it's gone. But then again we all saw this was coming. Good luck XJ
 
surfdog75
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 9):
DL is opening a 738 base in LAX? Haven't heard of that one yet.

It's true. It was announced by flight ops a couple weeks ago. LAX 767-400 based is closed and redeployed to ATL. 73N and 76ER (mostly for Hawaii flying) opening in LAX. Should be an overall net gain in pilots for LA. At the same time CVG opens 73N pilot base and JFK 777 base opens. ATL gets the 737-700s when they show up next year.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:16 am

Anyone know how LAX is doing for DL?? I have heard that some new DL flights out of LAX are doing surprisingly well but others or it seems to me like alot of the new flights are not doing well. I think costs are just too high at LAX, even if a flight looks like its doing well there i think it has to perform really well to make real money. UA cut too much at LAX and i think that they have a much more realistic chance of bringing back alot of LAX flights, and giving DL a real headache. I just dont know what plans DL has for LAX in the future, and it will be very interesting to see, but i am very skeptical LAX can ever really make DL money on the NEW routes. Didnt LAX just raise rates again at LAX??
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 26):
So we were to believe that there was room for 15 EM2's and RJ's on United Express, 10 SF340's, and now five daily ExpressJet EMB145's all to LAX?

LAX-SAN is 17x daily on American Eagle. Though only about 2-3 years ago it was at 24x daily.
a.
 
jkudall
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting XJET (Reply 20):
No clue. I did not realize that route wasn't served. DL doesn't seem to have much of a presence in YVR. If SLC-YVR did return I wouldn't think a 50 seat 145 would cover the demand.

SLC-YVR is still there, just currently being operated with Delta Connection during the slow season. SLC-YVR is Delta's only year round service to YVR.

As for the express jet routes out of LAX, the loads are very hit and miss. Some flights are chronically empty and it seems only the minority show some signs of sustainability. LAX-SAN only saw somewhat decent loads two days of the week, the rest of the time the loads are well under 50%. The loads on LAX-TIJ were laughable.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more express jet routes get axed out of LAX in the future. It sure seems difficult for them to compete with airlines like UA and WN.

[Edited 2007-10-29 20:39:58]
 
xjet
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting Jkudall (Reply 32):
As for the express jet routes out of LAX, the loads are very hit and miss. Some flights are chronically empty and it seems only the minority show some signs of sustainability. LAX-SAN only saw somewhat decent loads two days of the week, the rest of the time the loads are well under 50%. The loads on LAX-TIJ were laughable.

Mostly the flights are doing quite well. I will say that the early bank of flights at 6:00 and 6:30 to SMF, OAK, SJC, PHX, LAS, and SFO are pretty bleak. But on the return leg it will easily be 50 people. Just seems like there isn't that much demand going out of LAX that early. The next outbound bank does much better.

Also, the last arrival bank into LAX does really good. A lot of people are connecting through on the red-eyes offered by DL. And finally, we aren't having to do the Mx hangar shuffle anymore, making for a much smoother connection. They tweaked our arrivals to be a little earlier. They can unload our planes at T5 and T6 and still have enough time to repo them for the RON and get the big jets in the alley to head east. It has been a much needed adjustment.

I think we will continue to see a lot of tweaking in the DL LAX schedule. They are not afraid to cut routes and beef up others if the demand shows itself. Good plan I think, but from the outside it sometimes looks like throwing darts at the atlas.
 
whoopwhoop
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):
got me on that one...

LA is getting an ER Pilot category for the Hawaii flying and a 737-800 pilot base.

This pretty much sums up the reason for the influx of RJs over tha last year or so as stated by WorldTraveler.
""most of DL's RJ builup by Xjet was to prevent LAWA from having a case to take DL's gates and alot of the flying has been done by XE at their risk.""
 
mcamargo
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:50 am

I'm just curious... is Delta also ending LAX-MFE?

I tried searching on their website and I can't seem to book anything in January.
I live for the day mainline returns to BRO...
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 29):
It's true. It was announced by flight ops a couple weeks ago. LAX 767-400 based is closed and redeployed to ATL. 73N and 76ER (mostly for Hawaii flying) opening in LAX. Should be an overall net gain in pilots for LA. At the same time CVG opens 73N pilot base and JFK 777 base opens. ATL gets the 737-700s when they show up next year.

Thanks for the info, that's good to know Big grin .
 
eirbus06
Posts: 166
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:42 am

Quoting HVNandrew (Thread starter):
DL Ending LAX-SAN

SAN? is that san diego,san francisco,san juan, where?
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting Eirbus06 (Reply 37):
SAN? is that san diego,san francisco,san juan, where?

You'd think that after over 30 replies and using the mouse rollover it would be obvious  Yeah sure .
 
HVNandrew
Topic Author
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:24 pm

Quoting Mcamargo (Reply 35):
I'm just curious... is Delta also ending LAX-MFE?

I tried searching on their website and I can't seem to book anything in January.

It's still in the schedule, but I didn't check fares. Is it not bookable?
 
MSYtristar
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:30 pm

DL 7660 /YL BL ML WE13FEB LAXMFE 0045 0558 ERJ 0
HL QL KL LL UL TL

It's not a good sign when you see those "L's" next to the classes of service....
 
eirbus06
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:44 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 38):
You'd think that after over 30 replies and using the mouse rollover it would be obvious

No need for the sarcasm,just the answer will do!
 
mcamargo
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:50 pm

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 39):

Last flight that's bookable that I see is December 29th MFE-LAX...
after that, everythign is either through ATL on DL or through IAH on CO
I live for the day mainline returns to BRO...
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL Ending LAX-SAN

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:13 pm

Can't say I'm surprised MFE-LAX is gone. Only 55 daily O&D passengers there, plus limited connections would make this flight a tough flight to fill, especially on the longer sector there. That doesn't even mention that much better schedules would be available via DFW (AA) and IAH (CO).