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SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:07 am

Following on from the first thread SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s! (by CEO@AFG Oct 28 2007 in Civil Aviation). SAS has announced that its fleet of 29 Q400s has been grounded and will be dispossed off.

Wonder how this will affect NZs future Dash 8 Q fleet, since their ATR72 fleet will be replaced from 2009
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B747forever
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:24 am

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
Wonder how this will affect NZs future Dash 8 Q fleet,

Dont think it will not affect them, if it doesn't happens anything more now when SAS has taken away their Q400s. But if it will continue to happens accidents with the Q400s it can and will affect NZs choose.
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ZKSUJ
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
Wonder how this will affect NZs future Dash 8 Q fleet, since their ATR72 fleet will be replaced from 2009

Am hoping for the ATR -600 series, but at the moment the Q400 would still be well in the running one would think.
 
SKA380
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 246):
That's not exactly true. It's supposed to work that way, but in several parts of the world there is a pretty brisk business in counterfeit parts. After all, if a shop in East Berzerkistan reverse engineers a landing gear bolt and sells it under the same P/N as the original, there is no way for Bombardier to know or to control it. All they can do is warn the operators to be on the look out for it. This has happened before (not specifically for Q400 landing gear bolts, as far as I know) and will happen again.

Well, i can't speak for what airlines does in other parts of the world, but i've worked for quite a few airlines in europe, including SAS, and the only place the buyers will go for request of purchasing parts, is in the list of vendors in the parts catalog of the manufacturer.
This is the way it's done in SAS and all the european airlines i've worked for at least..
In some airlines, you as a tech. is even asked to supply a part number AND the vendor code. As the the guys in the buyer section is to lazy to do so themself..

SKA380
 
jox
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:52 am

SAS just came out with this info:

SAS Group will do everything possible to mitigate the negative consequences for
the passengers. Short and medium term SAS will take the following actions to
handle the replacement of the Q400 fleet (with estimated time frame)

1. Review of network and reallocation of aircraft capacity within the SAS group (0-3 months)
2. External wet lease capacity (0-1 month)
3. External dry lease capacity (3-6 months)

In parallel, work has already been initiated how to replace the aircraft type
long term. SAS expect to start to implement a long-term solution by second half
of 2008.


New planes in place in a year from now?? Believe or not?
 
B747forever
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:01 am

Quoting Jox (Reply 4):
SAS just came out with this info:

Really good job by SAS to be so fast. Hope it will go well with them.
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Starlionblue
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:03 am

Quoting Jox (Reply 4):
New planes in place in a year from now?? Believe or not?

Maybe they can wet lease some Q400s?  duck 

Quoting B747forever (Reply 5):

Really good job by SAS to be so fast. Hope it will go well with them.

It will cost them though. Even if they win the lawsuit against Bombardier, it'll be years and years before they see any money.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
B747forever
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:05 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
it'll be years and years before they see any money.

Hmm, No it will not take many years, maybe 2.-3years before they see money again, but not years and years.
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nema
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:12 am

Hi, not being an expert i am a little confused here as to which aircraft i am scheduled to fly on. Travelling from Copenhagen to Birmingham in November with SAS.



It is listed on the booking form as a DH4

I understand by one person that a DH4 is a : De Havilland Canada DHC-8 Dash 8-400
And by another that its a : Q-400, a large Bombardier turboprop

Any help please.
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Revo
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:14 am

Quoting NEMA (Reply 8):
Hi, not being an expert i am a little confused here as to which aircraft i am scheduled to fly on. Travelling from Copenhagen to Birmingham in November with SAS.

What day are you travelling on and what time and i may be able to help

[Edited 2007-10-29 03:18:45]
 
EBGflyer
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting NEMA (Reply 8):
Hi, not being an expert i am a little confused here as to which aircraft i am scheduled to fly on. Travelling from Copenhagen to Birmingham in November with SAS.



It is listed on the booking form as a DH4

I understand by one person that a DH4 is a : De Havilland Canada DHC-8 Dash 8-400
And by another that its a : Q-400, a large Bombardier turboprop

Any help please.

If it's listed you're flying with the DH4 then expect you will either flying with different equipment or rebooked. The DH4 has been taken out of production permanently by SAS.
Future flights: CPH-BOS; CPH-SVG; CPH-PVG-HKG-MNL-DVO; CPH-CDG; CPH-NRT; CPH-MIA; CPH-PVG
 
Revo
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:33 am

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 10):
If it's listed you're flying with the DH4 then expect you will either flying with different equipment or rebooked. The DH4 has been taken out of production permanently by SAS.

BHX has been getting a mixture of MD-87/MD-81/A319s lately so it is a very variable equipment schedule.
 
BrianDromey
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting NEMA (Reply 8):
I understand by one person that a DH4 is a : De Havilland Canada DHC-8 Dash 8-400
And by another that its a : Q-400, a large Bombardier turboprop

You are talking about the same aircraft, De Havilland Canada was taken over by Bombardier, so De Havilland Canada and Bombardier are, effectively, interchangable. It is almost certain you will fly on something that is not a Q400 though. Likely to be MD-80 or A319, I would have thought, if this does happen expect times of your fligth to be moved around. They may merge flights into one another.

Hope this helps.
Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
Revo
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 12):
if this does happen expect times of your fligth to be moved around. They may merge flights into one another.

SK have been using MD-80/A319 to BHX for a few weeks now (mainly MD-87/81) and the times have been exactly the same and no flights have been merged--- although i am not saying this could not happen in the future.
 
nema
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:45 am

Quoting Revo (Reply 9):
What day are you travelling on and what time and i may be able to help

Departing: Terminal 3, Copenhagen (CPH),
Copenhagen, Denmark
08:30 Sun

Arriving: Terminal 1, Birmingham International (BHX),
Birmingham, United Kingdom
09:50 Sun

Non-stop
Scandinavian Airlines (SK 2533) >
Aircraft type - DH4

Economy Restricted



Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 10):
If it's listed you're flying with the DH4 then expect you will either flying with different equipment or rebooked. The DH4 has been taken out of production permanently by SAS

OK Thanks for your reply

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 12):
You are talking about the same aircraft, De Havilland Canada was taken over by Bombardier, so De Havilland Canada and Bombardier are, effectively, interchangable.

OK Thanks for your reply


Just a short weekend break believe it or not to see the Christmas market at the Tivoli Gardens. Could have flown from my local airport East Mids with the new 'Sterling' airline service but chose from Birmingham to get two different aircraft. The outbound is as follows..

Departing: Terminal 1, Birmingham International (BHX),
Birmingham, United Kingdom
11:00 Fri

Arriving: Terminal 3, Copenhagen (CPH),
Copenhagen, Denmark
13:50 Fri

Non-stop
Scandinavian Airlines (SK 2534) >
Aircraft type - M80

Economy Restricted
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nema
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting Revo (Reply 9):
What day are you travelling on and what time and i may be able to help

The day by the way Is returning on Sunday, 25th November.
There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
 
Revo
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:51 am

The friday you go out will most likely be an MD-87 and the sunday i am not sure as up to last sunday was operated with a DASH 8Q400.
 
nema
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:54 am

Quoting Revo (Reply 16):
and the sunday i am not sure as up to last sunday was operated with a DASH 8Q400.

OK, thanks again for your help.
There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:15 am

Sebring... are you for real?? I saw your reply on the first thread and you said that the first two Q400 incidents had nothing to do with the main gear... ALL THREE INCIDENTS WERE TO DO WITH THE RIGHT HAND MAIN GEAR! Get that into your head!!
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Starlionblue
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 7):
Hmm, No it will not take many years, maybe 2.-3years before they see money again, but not years and years.

2-3 years to resolve an international lawsuit between two large corporations dealing with the quality of a high profile product that is essential to revenue generation for both? I think that's very optimistic. I foresee appeals for years to come.

Then again, maybe Bombardier will just pay up to get rid of it. SK certainly has nothing to lose at this point by insisting. They won't buy new Bombardier kit for quite a few years so they don't care about bad vendor relations with that company.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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moriarty
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:27 am

How drastic is this move if we put it in historic perspective?
[edit](I'm referring to the SAS decision to remove the Q400 completely from service.)

Now we have an airline ditching a particular aircraft due to severe problems.

I know of some examples, Comet for instance. But I don't know if that counts, the magnitude of the Comet crashes were a little different and it ended up terminating the entire aircraft type. Here we have "only" one (hope not more will follow) airline ditching a model. I'm guessing (and hoping) that the resent problems won't result in the termination of the Dash 8 Q400.

The Concorde also feels like a bad example since only two carriers operated it. But never the less, in the end part of the reason Concorde was stopped was due to loss of faith in the model. I know this is not the only (or perhaps not even the main) reason.

Another question has popped my mind. I'm guessing this puts severe pressure on Bombardier and that they are working hard to find a way out of this mess. But when looking I find almost only information about SAS, their actions and press releases. Seems very quiet from Bombardier as well as other operators? Or?

[Edited 2007-10-29 04:29:15]
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:28 am

Just look at Boeing and Airbus.. how long has their dispute being going on for?? Well maybe SAS will order some E170/190s  Smile Although i wonder if these planes could all park at the Q400 ramp at Kastrup... there certainly isnt enough terminal space...
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cf105arrow
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting Moriarty (Reply 20):
The Concorde also feels like a bad example since only two carriers operated it. But never the less, in the end part of the reason Concorde was stopped was due to loss of faith in the model. I know this is not the only (or perhaps not even the main) reason.

The accident precipitated the end of The Concorde but:

Adjustment to the fleet would have been costly.
The planes were getting rather old.
The service was more a matter of pride than making economic sense.

It ended up to be a good exit time for both airlines (but an unfortunate one, may they all rest in peace)
 
MEA-707
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:51 am

Quoting Moriarty (Reply 20):
How drastic is this move if we put it in historic perspective?
[edit](I'm referring to the SAS decision to remove the Q400 completely from service.)

The DC-10 accidents in 1979 made Air New Zealand switch to 747s. Even while Mt Erebus can't be blamed on the DC-10, the whole aura and feeling around the DC-10 was too sour afterwards for them.
Luxair quickened the F-50 withdrawl after their 2002 accident, ironically they bought 8Q-400s as they found the jet replacement not economical.
Nigerian operators quited BAC 1-11 operations after an accident in 2002, even while it was not purely the type to blame but more bad overhaul and procedures.
Aeroflot grounded all An-10s (a sort of passenger An-12) after too many accidents in 1972
Those are only some examples, especially earlier and in less developed countries, airtypes are withdrawn sometimes after accidents and incidents.
Luckily there is one big difference posters here sometimes seem to forget; not a single person has ever been killed on the Q400, the other DHC-8s have a great safety record too.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
BestWestern
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:52 am

I cannot believe that the Canadian's are accusing Denmark of Corruption. Anyone with any sense of the global market place knows that scandinavia is the least corrupt part of the world. Dont just take my word for it...

http://www.transparency.org/news_roo..._focus/2007/cpi2007/cpi_2007_table

Denmark is the least corrupt country in the world. Its official.


Amazing that my only two cancelled SK flights ever were Q400 flights to TXL. Its also amazing that Flybe - who use the Q400 as the backbone of their fleet is now nicknamed flymaybe...

[Edited 2007-10-29 04:53:30]
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CPHGuard
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 21):
there certainly isnt enough terminal space...

They can park the aircraft in the southern part of the airport.

I wonder if this will lead to cuts in crew. I know that the danish union already yesterday wrote a mail to the employees, that they could expect firings. I really hope not, and my thought goes to the crew that has to live with the uncertainty.
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:59 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 24):
cannot believe that the Canadian's are accusing Denmark of Corruption.

Maybe these Canadians are like some Americans.. they haven't got a clue about anything beyond their borders... Ask an average American kid if they know where Denmark is and they will probably say Africa... hehe

Quoting CPHGuard (Reply 25):
They can park the aircraft in the southern part of the airport.

When are they going to start building the extension of Pier D?? I heard they are planning it and i think they need it too.. CPH is always crowded!! I know they are rebuilding Pier C now...

[Edited 2007-10-29 04:59:36]
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LH744
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:05 pm

So can anyone tell if the three airplanes (LN-RDI, LN-RDK, LN-RDS), with which the landing gear incidents occured, will ever fly again? Are they hull losses and written off yet? Which state are they in?
 
cf105arrow
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 26):
Maybe these Canadians are like some Americans.. they haven't got a clue about anything beyond their borders... Ask an average American kid if they know where Denmark is and they will probably say Africa... hehe

Not so, since Greenland is not far beyond our border and it is a Danish province.  Wink
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:14 pm

Quoting CF105Arrow (Reply 28):
Not so, since Greenland is not far beyond our border and it is a Danish province.

Maybe its just the Americans then  Wink. But seriously Sebring must be a Bombardier employee judging by his denial and idiotic accusations.... It has already been proven that Bombarder and its suppliers were at fault in the first two incidents... Now all SAS have to do is get the money back off them. But as far as the Q400 goes i say good riddance... SAS has had nothing but problems with this aircraft from day one... Unfortunately the only other replacement is the ATR72 but i think SAS will go for RJs instead now...
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moriarty
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:24 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 23):
Luckily there is one big difference posters here sometimes seem to forget; not a single person has ever been killed on the Q400, the other DHC-8s have a great safety record too.

Exactly.

Thanks for answering, I suspected there were more examples out there. So even if this feels drastic it's not unique. Well, maybe unique as the aircraft does not have caused fatalities (thank god!).
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Boeing4ever
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 26):
Maybe these Canadians are like some Americans.. they haven't got a clue about anything beyond their borders... Ask an average American kid if they know where Denmark is and they will probably say Africa... hehe



Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 29):
Maybe its just the Americans then .

Gee, funny. Well let's see, most incidents with one airline, I guess now I know who to root for.  Yeah sure

It does take someone special to drag Americans into this.

Now on topic, what exactly is going to happen to the 27 Q400's in the SAS group's fleet? Parked? Sold? Scrapped?

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sxf24
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:36 pm

The attitude of superiority of those from Scandinavia is disgusting.

This is not about Canada vs. Denmark, it is about whether the blame lies with SK or BBD. Statistically speaking, the rate of incidents with SK DH4 operations is infinitely higher than any other operator - the majority of whom have never had a MLG failure. While this doesn't logically lead to the conclusion that there is a design flaw, it does not rule out the possibility. However, numbers and history would lead to the conclusion that BBD either deliberately delivered poorly constructed aircraft to SK or that SK did "something" that impacted the MLG operation. Since we don't know, it seems absurd to pretend that SK is blameless.
 
CPHGuard
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:43 pm

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 32):
Since we don't know, it seems absurd to pretend that SK is blameless.

Did you read the posts ?????

Faulty manufacturing and Bombardier maintenance guidelines caused the first two accidents. THAT IS A FACT !!!!

We don't know what caused the latest accident yet.
 
sxf24
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:08 pm

Quoting CPHGuard (Reply 33):
Did you read the posts ?????

Faulty manufacturing and Bombardier maintenance guidelines caused the first two accidents. THAT IS A FACT !!!!

We don't know what caused the latest accident yet.

It is not a fact that faulty manufacturing cased the first two incidents. BBD has obviously taken responsibility and action regarding its maintenance guidelines; however, it is absolutely absurd to assert that SK has no responsibility.
 
voodoo
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 24):
Its also amazing that Flybe - who use the Q400 as the backbone of their fleet is now nicknamed flymaybe...

Well, to be fair, I think this has as much to do with integrating BA Conn. as any Q400 problems.
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johnnybgoode
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:21 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 18):
Sebring... are you for real?? I saw your reply on the first thread and you said that the first two Q400 incidents had nothing to do with the main gear... ALL THREE INCIDENTS WERE TO DO WITH THE RIGHT HAND MAIN GEAR! Get that into your head!!

although it is correct that all three incidents were to do with the right hand main gear, it remains to be seen whether Saturday's accident is indeed connected to the two earlier ones. the fact that it's always been the main landing gear does not necessarily mean all incidents are connected (well, obviously the first two are related).
in September, both incidents were caused by a collapsing main gear upon landing. this incident was caused by the main landing gear failing to extend.

it was proven that corrosion was found in the landing gears in question concerning the first two incidents. there seems to be a different cause in the new incident. so let's wait and see what the investigation shows. in the meantime, all our posts will be nothing but speculation.

needless to say, all those incidents in this short time frame put forward the question of reliability of this aircraft type.
many operators, most noticeably SK, have had difficulties to operate this aircraft and it is also correct that Bombardier doesn't has the best customer service.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
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modernArt
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 26):
Ask an average American kid if they know where Denmark is and they will probably



Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 29):
Maybe its just the Americans then

Waiting for you to post something that actually relates to the SAS incident that isn't a slam on Americans, Canadians, et al.

Fact remains to be seen what caused this latest incident.
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:28 pm

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 37):
Waiting for you to post something that actually relates to the SAS incident that isn't a slam on Americans, Canadians, et al.

Well i was just playing with some stereotypes  Wink. But when someone accusses the least corrupt nation in the world of being corrupt in their accident investigations (it was the Danish Civil Aviation Authority that came to the conclusion it was a manufacturing fault) i feel that maybe they don't have a clue about Scandinavia... The most open and democratic region in the world.

Anyway back to topic... of course we need to find out what caused Saturday's incident.. But i think SAS made the right decision to remove the fleet.. even if they could fix every aircraft to ensure it never happened again, the events have been covered extensively in the media and people will just refuse to fly the Q400 if they see it... Most passengers dont notice what type of plane they fly on but in Scandinavia if it is a Q400, people know what it looks like...

I think the E170/190 would look amazing in SAS colours... like a mini-airbus...
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Grunf
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:32 pm

Well there is a possibility that third accident wan't caused by manufacturing issues but by some SK snafu. That's a very unfortunate development as general public would like to se 8Q400 grounded no matter what.

So aircrafts might be rectified by now but public wouldn't want to fly with them anyway.

Alternative 2 is that Bombardier messed up the design again and some other part jammed. Let's wait for investigation results, should we?
Drink more milk, less kerosene!
 
SpencerII
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:01 pm

Intersting, I was recently in STockholm and watched a Danish Game Show on TV. They ask the Dane what state in the United States the city of Kansas City was located in and the guest replied New York.
 
degenfly
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:01 pm

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 32):
The attitude of superiority of those from Scandinavia is disgusting.

It seems that certain members of this forum dismiss the conclusions of the Danish investigation into the first two crashes simply because it was done by Danes, as if Denmark was some corrupt third world country. If that isn't a disgusting attitude of superiority I don't know what is.
 
SpencerII
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:08 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 26):
Ask an average American kid if they know where Denmark is and they will probably say Africa... hehe

Interesting, I was recently in Stockholm and there was a game show on TV, and they asked the Dane what state in the United States Kansas City was located in & his reply was New York.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:15 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 29):
ow all SAS have to do is get the money back off them.

And good luck to them. I give it at the very least 5 years, if ever.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 38):
i feel that maybe they don't have a clue about Scandinavia... The most open and democratic region in the world.

Now now. Canada isn't too bad either on that front.  Wink

Quoting SpencerII (Reply 40):
Intersting, I was recently in STockholm and watched a Danish Game Show on TV. They ask the Dane what state in the United States the city of Kansas City was located in and the guest replied New York.

This illustrates well what I normally hit people with when they complain that Americans don't know geography. I start asking about US geography. When they say "it's not the same thing" I point out that the US is roughly the same size and roughly the same population as the EU, so in many ways it is the same thing.

The cluelessness of many Americans about the rest of world is great, but "Let he who casts the first stone..." Personally, I have found more or less as many Americans to be well educated as Swedes. Pointing at one subject (geography) as an indicator for total education isn't a very good test.

Note: I am born and raised in Sweden but have lived in the US 5½ years. I have now left the US for a while to move to China (well, HK which is sort of China). Here people only care about the rest of the world if they can make money that way. In the average Chinese person's mind, China is the center of the Universe and anything outside is barbaric wasteland. As usual, saying you are from Sweden inevitably leads to the answer "Ah, Switzerland..." I have never really understood how they sound similar or why people make the connection, but there it is.

But I digress.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
mika
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting NEMA (Reply 8):
understand by one person that a DH4 is a : De Havilland Canada DHC-8 Dash 8-400
And by another that its a : Q-400, a large Bombardier turboprop



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 43):
This illustrates well what I normally hit people with when they complain that Americans don't know geography. I start asking about US geography. When they say "it's not the same thing" I point out that the US is roughly the same size and roughly the same population as the EU, so in many ways it is the same thing.

The cluelessness of many Americans about the rest of world is great, but "Let he who casts the first stone..." Personally, I have found more or less as many Americans to be well educated as Swedes. Pointing at one subject (geography) as an indicator for total education isn't a very good test.

Note: I am born and raised in Sweden but have lived in the US 5½ years. I have now left the US for a while to move to China (well, HK which is sort of China). Here people only care about the rest of the world if they can make money that way. In the average Chinese person's mind, China is the center of the Universe and anything outside is barbaric wasteland. As usual, saying you are from Sweden inevitably leads to the answer "Ah, Switzerland..." I have never really understood how they sound similar or why people make the connection, but there it is.

And this has what to do with SK and Bombardier?
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:24 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 43):
Now now. Canada isn't too bad either on that front.

I never said that Canada was corrupt... it is also a very open society but a Canadian person accused Denmark of being corrupt... I myself have a Norwegian mother, was brought up in the UK and Norway but now live in Denmark... so quite a mix! But i have a much better knowledge of geography than many people because of my interest in travelling and the world.

But at least now Bombardier, the Canadian and Danish authorities are investigating the third incident so i hope they will come to a conclusion as to why it happened now.

The Danish press today are already saying that the incident is not related to the first two.
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EXAAUADL
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:29 pm

I have a very difficult time believing that there is something really serriously wrong with the DH4, at elast nothing that cant be easily fixed. This is a minor landing gear problem and I think SAS is really overreacting.

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 32):
The attitude of superiority of those from Scandinavia is disgusting.

This is not about Canada vs. Denmark, it is about whether the blame lies with SK or BBD. Statistically speaking, the rate of incidents with SK DH4 operations is infinitely higher than any other operator

have a very difficult time believing that there is something really serriously wrong with the DH4, at elast nothing that cant be easily fixed. This is a minor landing gear problem and I think SAS is really overreacting.

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 32):
The attitude of superiority of those from Scandinavia is disgusting.

This is not about Canada vs. Denmark, it is about whether the blame lies with SK or BBD. Statistically speaking, the rate of incidents with SK DH4 operations is infinitely higher than any other operator

that is precisley the point. Why has SK been so unfortunatle with these aircraft and not others? Did SK receive their aircraft in consecutive line numbers(meaning did all of SK aircraft come off the line one after another)? Are these particular aircraft defective?


Until QX or Porter begin having problems, my guess is this is isolated to SAS MX or those particular SAS aircraft as they came off the line.
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:35 pm

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 46):
Until QX or Porter begin having problems, my guess is this is isolated to SAS MX or those particular SAS aircraft as they came off the line.

These aircraft were all built within 3 months of eachother if i recall correctly so it could well be a bad batch but remember Augsburg airways also had a gear collapse a month ago and before that ANA had one.... I think Bombardier should recommend an overhaul of all Q400 landing gear as a precautionary measure... But seeing as the first two events have already been investigated and a cause found out we need to wait for the results of the most recent accident...

I am also looking forward to reactions from other airlines about this.... is there any yet?
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planemaker
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:38 pm

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 36):
many operators, most noticeably SK, have had difficulties to operate this aircraft and it is also correct that Bombardier doesn't has the best customer service.

Thank you for pointing this fact out (though it has been brought up a few times already).

Any check of industry news' database will inform any person posting in this thread that the Q400 had major problems from EIS (in fact, certification was delayed 9 months... and this was for a 4th variant, not some all-new design like the 787!)

And it was with all Q400 customers that BBD had dropped the ball with regards to support... with Tyrolean publicly calling on BBD to get their act in gear and the Japanese authorities urging BBD to improve quality!

So people... before blindly absolving BBD and blaming SAS... check the history of the Q400 in the industry press!
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
birdbrainz
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s Part 2

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:39 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 26):
Maybe these Canadians are like some Americans.. they haven't got a clue about anything beyond their borders... Ask an average American kid if they know where Denmark is and they will probably say Africa... hehe

No. It's in Sweden, right?  Yeah sure

Ask your average Danish kid to find Manitoba.

It would be a real shame for you to get out and actually meet some average American kids. You'd have to retire some of your stereotypes. I look at my second grader's workload, and wouldn't want it any more academically rigorous.

With comments like that, it's clear you haven't spent much time outside your boarders, or if you have, it sure hasn't sunk in. Must be the Gammel Dansk, which of course, all Danes enjoy first thing in the morning with a cup of coffee, right?
 Wink
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.

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