EK156
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Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:14 pm

In an interesting and extensive interview with Chairman of Emirates, Sheikh Ahmad, with an arabic daily newspaper, he revealed that the Ruler of Dubai, Sheikh Mohammad told the Chairman that he wants Emirates to be No. 1 in the World. So for all those speculating... I think you got your answer....

Other pointers were

1) The compensation that EK got for Airbus for the delay of the 380 was worth the cost of more than 2 new A 380's!!!

2) Emirates is looking at expanding aggresively in North and South American in the next 1 - 2 years

3) Emirates did not suffer much from the Oil prices cause they hedged the prices and the effect was minumum

4) Emirates will break the record in profits that will be announced next month!

5) Emirates is going to sell 25% of its share in an IPO in the Dubai Stock Exchange. They want to use the money to expand and probably buy a European Airline!!!.... which one? He said that is confidential

6) Emirates is still committed to buy 100 airplanes either the B 787 or the A 350 but they are deciding. Deliveries are to be scheduled to start in 2013

7) At the moment EK is not considering an LLC but it might be done in the future... so there is a chance for an LLC


So it seems that alot is going to happen for EK in the next 3 - 5 years. thoughts?
 
seansasLCY
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:18 pm

In The Times today it had an article which said the chairman of Emirates has said they have no plans to aquire a European Airline as they want to focus on their own growth and development for at least the next couple of years.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:21 pm

No surprise to me. If they can do it, more power to them. They seem to have a nice product.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
1) The compensation that EK got for Airbus for the delay of the 380 was worth the cost of more than 2 new A 380's!!!

Which is why they ordered a couple in 2006 time. Their F would have been canceled anyway, they were discussing compensation, and were given the 2 canceled F models as PAX models for free at that time.

Quoting SeansasLCY (Reply 1):
In The Times today it had an article which said the chairman of Emirates has said they have no plans to aquire a European Airline as they want to focus on their own growth and development for at least the next couple of years.

Well, they have to be cautious here because they are so blatantly looking to dominate the aviation world that countries will start to get nervous and balk at allowing EK unfettered access to their markets.

One must remember that while Dubai is a thriving city, when you open skies with the UAE, you are basically inviting EK (and to a lesser extent EY) to take away most of your international traffic, and in return, you get the ability to fly as many flights as you want to Dubai and Abu Dhabi. But how many flights are your airlines really going to want to run there for O&D alone, and how will they compete with the hometown airline with dozens of flights?

Nations aren't stupid. If they see it's a lose-lose for their country, and if there is evidence of it being lose-lose looking at other nations, EK will find it difficult to expand as much as they are dreaming of.

So threatening to buy an EU airline is not in their best interest in the short term. It just adds more fuel to a protectionist fire that will grow in other parts of the world. EK buying 50+ A380s and 100 A350s will mitigate the uproar in the EU (stealing from Peter to pay Paul), but for nations that EK can't dangle a huge "jobs carrot" in front of, it'll be harder to take over those international markets. And no, I don't think buying 100 787s will help long term in the USA to prevent backlash against EK, but I also don't see EK being able to dominate markets here like they could in the EU and Australia, due to our location.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
swallow
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:35 pm

Yep. They are aiming for the top of the tree using their point-hub-point business model and will probably become the largest 777, 787/350 and 380 operator in the world .

One hopes they can look after their crew better and improve staff retention, given the stories on A.net of staff dissatisfaction and turnover.
The grass is greener where you water it
 
Evan767
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:53 pm

Might as well just change the title to, "The United Arab Emirates wants to be NO.1 in the world"
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
OO-VEG
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:57 pm

Emirates is growing hugely fast. It will probably cease sometime and I still wonder what would happen if that growth suddenly stops still having 60 A350/787 on order. They probably buy Lufthansa and use the slots for flights to TXL and STR.  Smile
 
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ER757
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:04 pm

They certainly have great expectations and an ambitious goal for themselves. I wouldn't say they can't do it, but Irkamerica raises some pretty valid points. Other airlines and their countries' regulatory agencies are not going to sit idly by and watch it happen. EK will have to fight to grow to the size they envision, but I am sure they already know it won't be a walk in the park.
 
Door5Right
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:10 pm

Never with 10 abreast in their 777s!
My soul is in the sky...
 
iahflyer
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:15 pm

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
Sheikh Mohammad told the Chairman that he wants Emirates to be No. 1 in the World.

There not already? On what basis are they trying to base the ranking on?
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
 
NW748i
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:24 pm

No. 1 how? I suspect you mean in profitability... quite possible. I somehow doubt an emirate with one airport has enough domestic traffic to make them #1 in pax/enplanements. Perhaps since the sheik intend to buy up entire airports that will no longer be the case years down.
Hail! to the victors valiant, Hail! to the conqu'ring heroes, Hail! Hail! to Michigan the leaders and best! Go Blue!
 
JoKeR
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:27 pm

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
probably buy a European Airline!!!.... which one? He said that is confidential

OK, I know I'm speculating here greatly, greatly! - but, for the first time ever, this grand old-lady landed in BEG on Saturday carrying a senior "Emirati" VIP (not an official visit, no media coverage), and all that at a time when JU's privatization consultants are about to recommend a privatization strategy - and a future owner.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © James Mepsted



Its no secret that JU was "offered" to EK in the past (in one way or another), together with basically unrestricted use of BEG Airport and Serbia's lucrative bilaterals and slots at major airports around the world... and all that for "peanuts", something like Euro 150 million.

 scratchchin 
Kafa, čaj, šraf?
 
tayaramecanici
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
4) Emirates will break the record in profits that will be announced next month!

5) Emirates is going to sell 25% of its share in an IPO in the Dubai Stock Exchange. They want to use the money to expand and probably buy a European Airline!!!.... which one? He said that is confidential

Any Nutter knows that before releasing an IPO you don't say things like

1) We are going to make the least profits in the 23 years of existence with the largest fleet we ever had.

2) We can't be number one because we are so dependent on the INDIAN market that we are now flying 100 flts/wk and the bloody Indian are allowing 9W, Air Arabia and soon RAK Airways to fly to UAE. Apart from the fact that the freaking US and EU airlines are having a free run of the INDIAN market with their non-stop flts compared to our connectors in DXB which we have to discount to attract the thrifty Indians.

3) Soon the Indian govt will allow more Indian carriers to fly Intl that could eat into our pax and with further growth in the major metro airports the US and EU airlines will increase their capacity there, which we have already saturated.

4) Even if we buy a EU airline in some tiny nation like Bosnia or Serbia we are not sure EU will honor it as the very existence of EU is at stake with the EURO and Common interest rate there playing havoc on their economies.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
 
MMEPHX
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:41 am

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
Emirates is going to sell 25% of its share in an IPO in the Dubai Stock Exchange. They want to use the money to expand and probably buy a European Airline!!!.... which one? He said that is confidential

Article in the NZ Herald indicates a valuation of $20-$30Bn US. 25% = $4-$7Bn. Add in the hundreds of millions profit for each of the last few years and that is quite a war chest, I doubt they will look at "second tier" airlines. BA has a market cap of ~$10Bn. An Emirates bid for $11-2Bn? Yes there are lots of problems, pensions included, and before anyone jumps all over me, it is pure and utter speculation, and fleet commonality won't be an issue...(it seems to be the decider factor for a lot of a.netters)

http://203.99.65.121/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10472933
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 12):

1) We are going to make the least profits in the 23 years of existence with the largest fleet we ever had.

Because they are not, their profits have increased every year for about a decade.

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 12):

2) We can't be number one because we are so dependent on the INDIAN market that we are now flying 100 flts/wk and the bloody Indian are allowing 9W, Air Arabia and soon RAK Airways to fly to UAE. Apart from the fact that the freaking US and EU airlines are having a free run of the INDIAN market with their non-stop flts compared to our connectors in DXB which we have to discount to attract the thrifty Indians.

Talk about comparing apple to oranges, air arabia and RAK are LLC with no competition to EK. 9W is at least half a decade away in giving EK a run for their money.

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 12):

3) Soon the Indian govt will allow more Indian carriers to fly Intl that could eat into our pax and with further growth in the major metro airports the US and EU airlines will increase their capacity there, which we have already saturated.

Indian population is set to increase from a billion, not to mention when compounded with pakistan the passenger to airline ratio is pretty ordinary.

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 12):

4) Even if we buy a EU airline in some tiny nation like Bosnia or Serbia we are not sure EU will honor it as the very existence of EU is at stake with the EURO and Common interest rate there playing havoc on their economies.

I think someone in europe is starting to lose face in front of competition.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
etfokker50
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:02 pm

And this is news? Some journalist must have been bored  Smile We all saw it coming from 10 miles away
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:19 pm

Rumour has it from Ottawa that QR will be given rights to YYZ to keep EK in check to the region. I didn't even know QR was interested. The go slow for a bilateral that would allow EK and EY more flights seems to be the word from there as well as they have publically stated. I wonder if it is just bureaucratic sluggishness or indeed some fear of the above is behind it. Rumours being rumours who knows until it actually plays out.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:19 pm

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
In an interesting and extensive interview with Chairman of Emirates, Sheikh Ahmad, with an arabic daily newspaper, he revealed that the Ruler of Dubai, Sheikh Mohammad told the Chairman that he wants Emirates to be No. 1 in the World. So for all those speculating... I think you got your answer....

EK156..do you have a link or was it a printed article? I would quite interested in it.... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
flysherwood
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:58 pm

Maybe they will buy Alitalia. That would be one way of slowing down the expansion of EK. Can you imagine the Sheik having to deal with those unions?!?!?!  Wink
 
a3
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:21 pm

There is a very strong rumor in Greece that an UAE airline is in talks with the Greek Government over Olympic's Future.....
Don't spend your money on airlines that don't respect your business.
 
sparkingwave
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:35 pm

They can't be no.1 in the world cause not everyone's gonna want to fly through Dubai. They'll never get the extensive route network that only one airline in the whole world could get, and that was Pan Am.

They'll have competitors in all directions fighting them tooth and nail. And if terrorism raises its ugly head in the Middle East, then there could be lots of empty A380s flying up there.
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
 
flysherwood
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:36 pm

Quoting A3 (Reply 20):
There is a very strong rumor in Greece that an UAE airline is in talks with the Greek Government over Olympic's Future.....

That's almost as good as buying Alitalia!!!  Wink
 
cf105arrow
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:44 pm

Emirates wants to be no.1. They are buying lots of planes, they do have a great 1st class, probably business also but nothing special in economy class or less than special with the 10 abreast in the 777.

This is viewed negatively by Abu Dhabi who feels that the Capital should always take precedence in the UAE and thus Etihad should be the number one. But in the case of Abu Dhabi, they prefer to grow at a slower pace.

Qatar airways is buying a large number of planes. In a few years you will find in a very small geographic area inhabited by a relatively very small number of inhabitants a huge number of planes as the plane orders would have been delivered.

Then, the slug-fest will start and heavy losses will follow.
 
tonystan
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:49 pm

No 1 at what???

Profitability??? Not for a while consider the spending splurge they seem to be undergoing all the time and the constant investment in DXB.
Cabin Service??? Also not likely, unfortunately with the expansion of the airline standards have indeed dropped and there is a major inconsistency amongst aircraft cabin products across the fleet.
Size and Route structure??? Well perhaps indeed no 1 in that.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
b777a340fan
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:21 pm

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
3) Emirates did not suffer much from the Oil prices cause they hedged the prices and the effect was minumum

Well yeah, it's easy when you literally have oil gushing in your own backyard.

Is anyone speculating (and I do mean SPECULATING) that EK receives great funding from the state and is hence, not technically a "private" company in the general sense of the term?
 
mestrugo
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:24 pm

The UAE sit in the midst of the route from Europe and Africa to Asia and Oceania. I guess their strategy is based in having a zillion of flights linking those zones with a stop on DXB, that would act as the mother of all hubs... and I'm not sure if it would work.

First, because they would be competing with long-range, non-stop flights linking those zones. If I had to fly from, say, London to Tokyo, I'd prefer to fly directly rather than having to do stop at DXB and having to wait for the next flight to NRT.

I guess their hub could be more attractive if I was living in a smaller city and/or were flying to an also smaller destination, supposing those destinations were flown by Emirates, or if I could find connections more easily. Let's suppose I'm at Casablanca and want to fly to Noumea, in New Caledonia. Then, it would make more sense flying there, if Emirates serves both destinations, rather than flying to London, take the Kangaroo route and take another flight to Noumea.

The expansion towards North and South America, however, are a little more tricky. It's usually much easier, and shorter, to fly USA/south America - East Asia/Oceania thru the pacific, not to mention to Europe or Africa from there. Flying emirates would only make sense if your destination was in the middle east; but then again, they'd be cometing with local airlines that usually have direct links, that take less time and usually don't require landing in a hub to change planes.

I'm alo wondering if DXB is prepared to triple the amount of passengers it's going to get. Consdidering their fleet upgrade, it would mean thousands of passengers will stay at the airport waiting for their connections, and as usual, most of them won't leave the airport during the hours they stay there. I hope they invest in amenities to make the wait more worthwile. I've heard they're building a colossal airport to be inaugurated in 2017, but, on the meantime, EK will have to rely on ole' good DXB.

What will happen with EK's plans? Will they succeed, or their huge fleet will have to fly around the globe half-empty in the next years? Will they actually become the number one airline in passengers and freight transported, or will they just collapse under their own weight?

The answer will come in 5 more years. Hope to see you around by then.  Smile
 
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yowza
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:33 pm

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 25):
Well yeah, it's easy when you literally have oil gushing in your own backyard.

Less than 3% of Dubai's revenues come from oil and gas. So your comment is a little off base.

YOWza
 
flysherwood
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:41 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 27):
Less than 3% of Dubai's revenues come from oil and gas. So your comment is a little off base.

Where does the other 97% come from?
 
b777a340fan
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:45 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 27):
Less than 3% of Dubai's revenues come from oil and gas. So your comment is a little off base

I don't think you got my point properly.... UAE is the world's 10th largest producer, 6th largest exporter of oil.... so oil prices are not necessarily going to affect the airline as much as an american or a chinese airline, for example.
 
mestrugo
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:49 pm

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 28):
Where does the other 97% come from?

If I'm not wrong, Dubai is an important finantial center, and they rely heavily on tourism, too. They're also strong on the IT market.
 
cf105arrow
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:04 pm

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 29):
I don't think you got my point properly.... UAE is the world's 10th largest producer, 6th largest exporter of oil.... so oil prices are not necessarily going to affect the airline as much as an american or a chinese airline, for example.

Everything you said is true, but the Oil is in Abu Dhabi the home of Etihad and is thus owned by the Government of Abu Dhabi. There is a very small quantity of oil in Dubai.
 
B2443
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:15 pm

Quoting Mestrugo (Reply 26):
First, because they would be competing with long-range, non-stop flights linking those zones. If I had to fly from, say, London to Tokyo, I'd prefer to fly directly rather than having to do stop at DXB and having to wait for the next flight to NRT.

I think the real danger of EK expanding like crazy is that EK would build hubs outside of DXB. With open skies it establishes with other countries and the rights (5th or higher), it could build a hub at MAD that flies to North and South America or Africa, with super comfy 380s and 773s at super price. Then what would happen to IB?
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
6) Emirates is still committed to buy 100 airplanes either the B 787 or the A 350 but they are deciding. Deliveries are to be scheduled to start in 2013

Just in time to for the 772's and 773A's to leave the fleet. Interesting if they order 789's. That would be a one for one replacement (almost).

EK will be serious about that order. They'll play Airbus and Boeing for every dollar. It will be interesting to see how the order goes.

Quoting SeansasLCY (Reply 1):
In The Times today it had an article which said the chairman of Emirates has said they have no plans to aquire a European Airline as they want to focus on their own growth and development for at least the next couple of years.

I hope they grow organically. Acquisitions and airlines have a poor history.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Well, they have to be cautious here because they are so blatantly looking to dominate the aviation world that countries will start to get nervous and balk at allowing EK unfettered access to their markets.

That is a thread to EK. However, smart countries will realize its worth much more bringing in the business travelers. With the number of "open skies" agreements EK has signed, their real limits are how many flights to India or china. But India is its own thread: Emirates Closing In On 100 Flights/Week To India (by LAXDESI Oct 28 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting Door5right (Reply 8):
Never with 10 abreast in their 777s!

They sell those seats... Keeps EK's CASM low.  Wink Wait for 11 in the A380!  spin 

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 14):
9W is at least half a decade away in giving EK a run for their money.

But should give them a run. If anything, "hub-bypass" will limit EK's RASM which leads too...

Quoting Mestrugo (Reply 26):

First, because they would be competing with long-range, non-stop flights linking those zones.

That puts an upper bound on EK's RASM. Hence, their obsession with CASM.  Wink

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 29):
UAE is the world's 10th largest producer, 6th largest exporter of oil.... so oil prices are not necessarily going to affect the airline as much as an american or a chinese airline, for example.

Groan... Dubai has very little oil revenue. Abu Dhabi has that money. Your trying to imply that California is subsidized by Texas state taxes on oil. Dubai is in effect subsidized by EK's profits.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
swallow
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 33):
Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
6) Emirates is still committed to buy 100 airplanes either the B 787 or the A 350 but they are deciding. Deliveries are to be scheduled to start in 2013

Just in time to for the 772's and 773A's to leave the fleet. Interesting if they order 789's. That would be a one for one replacement (almost

Make that 3 772A leaving the fleet in 2011, 29 332s & 8 343s in 2013 and 12 773A in 2014 for a total of 52 planes that need replacement. If they order 50 planes plus 50 options that is a one-for-one replacement. If they order 100 twins, then they add capacity for growth. It is not as crazy at it seems especially if delivery is drawn out till the end of the next decade.

source; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates
The grass is greener where you water it
 
EK156
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:20 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 25):
Well yeah, it's easy when you literally have oil gushing in your own backyard.

Is anyone speculating (and I do mean SPECULATING) that EK receives great funding from the state and is hence, not technically a "private" company in the general sense of the term?

EK is going to float it's stocks to raise money for expansion. I think that is enough evidence that they are not getting any funding from the state!!! They are going to sell their shares at the Dubai Stock Exchange Market in order to raise funding.

As for the Oil, I think you got the answer for that.... ALSO... and this is very important...

Jet Fuel is NOT produced in the UAE. The UAE has to buy it like everyone else!!! Infact, Jet Fuel in the UAE costs more than Jet Fuel in the US. This is a fact cause I got my PPL here and I went to the US to get my Instruments. Jet Fuel in the US was MUCH cheaper than here in Dubai.

So Everytime someone says they have oil gushing in their background, I have to jump in and remind you of all these issues!!!

EK156
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:47 am

I dont mean to be a Greenie but yeah thats all fine, they will become No.1 in the world but when oil runs out in the UAE they will be gone before you can say 'no more oil'. Airlines all over the world are putting research into different fuel types etc but Emirates just goes and burns up fuel like its in fashion. Yes Aviation contributes 2% to CO2 emission but of that 2% Emirates would use the most for its size. Some will say 'but they will join the non-oil revolution' - they might and then where would they be able to get there unlimited supply of money from?
 
cf105arrow
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 36):
I dont mean to be a Greenie but yeah thats all fine, they will become No.1 in the world but when oil runs out in the UAE they will be gone before you can say 'no more oil'. Airlines all over the world are putting research into different fuel types etc but Emirates just goes and burns up fuel like its in fashion. Yes Aviation contributes 2% to CO2 emission but of that 2% Emirates would use the most for its size. Some will say 'but they will join the non-oil revolution' - they might and then where would they be able to get there unlimited supply of money from?

You could say that to Etihad but not to Emirates. Abu Dhabi has the oil and they own Etihad. Dubai doesn't have significant oil and get their money from selling apartments in the middle of the desert to foreigners. The more foreigners buy and spend money there, the more they make.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:52 pm

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 29):

I don't think you got my point properly.... UAE is the world's 10th largest producer, 6th largest exporter of oil.... so oil prices are not necessarily going to affect the airline as much as an american or a chinese airline, for example.

...even if EK can get its oil "cheap" from Dubai (which is false, as EK has oil hedging), it still needs to purchase oil for its return trip.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 36):
I dont mean to be a Greenie but yeah thats all fine, they will become No.1 in the world but when oil runs out in the UAE they will be gone before you can say 'no more oil'.

.....Dubai basically has no oil whatsoever  no ....maybe it will affect EY..maybe not....not to mention, who knows what will happen 10-15 years from now. Is Dubai a "bubble"? Possibly...or maybe its just "catching up" with the "Jones" of the world, ie. Singapore, Hong Kong, etc.

30-40 years ago, who would have thought Singapore would become a "world-class gateway", yet through foresight, hard work, dedication and commitment, its become a world class economic hub/gateway....
"Up the Irons!"
 
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yowza
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:42 pm

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 29):

I don't think you got my point properly.... UAE is the world's 10th largest producer, 6th largest exporter of oil.... so oil prices are not necessarily going to affect the airline as much as an american or a chinese airline, for example.

Although the UAE is one country the economies of its individual emirates are very separate. That is to say that the welath generated from oil in Abu Dhabi is not shred and for the most part fuel is purchased at market or near market prices. This is due to the fact that western interests which have partnerships with one emirate will not turn a blind eye to cut-rate pricing just because the oil is not leaving the country. It's a peculiar situation and one that many have a hard time wrapping their head around because things don't happen that way over here.

YOWza
 
philzh
Posts: 111
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:29 pm

Quoting Mestrugo (Reply 26):
I've heard they're building a colossal airport

Yes they are building it.
It's at 24deg 53' 21"N 55deg 10' 27" in Google Earth; here's a few pics of the model.
 
cf105arrow
Posts: 144
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:47 pm

Quoting Philzh (Reply 40):
Quoting Mestrugo (Reply 26):
I've heard they're building a colossal airport

Yes they are building it.
It's at 24deg 53' 21"N 55deg 10' 27" in Google Earth; here's a few pics of the model.

The airport at Jebel Ali will be built 40 kms from the existing Dubai International Airport adjacent to Jebel Ali Port and Jebel Ali Free Zone. It will be surrounded by a strategic road network linking the airport to the different emirates and some of the GCC countries.

The project will be completed in phases. The first phase, costing US $ 547 million (Dhs 2 billion) will include the Logistics City and one runway. Initially, the focus will be on cargo requirements. The airport will consist of a number of terminals, six parallel runways, a large area for cargo and two main entrances. When completed, the airport will have the capacity to handle 120 million passengers and 12 million tonnes of cargo annually. All facilities will be equipped to handle new generation aircraft including the A380.

www.dubaiairport.com
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:50 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 38):

30-40 years ago, who would have thought Singapore would become a "world-class gateway", yet through foresight, hard work, dedication and commitment, its become a world class economic hub/gateway....

= However, to be world-class, you need strong innovation. Copying an economic model rarely works. Singapore and Hong Kong can thank the closed Chinese and Indian markets for a good aspect of their growth - of course, combined with ingenuity and hardwork. Now that China and India continue growing, the key to DXB and Dubai would be product differentiation. And if India restricts bilaterals with Dubai, EK will have a hard time filling those 380s and building their mega hub ... especially given that I personally would prefer 3 other Mid East airlines before considering EK ... MEA, Etihad, and Qatar.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:52 pm

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 42):
Copying an economic model rarely works.

= Let me rephase that to ... copying an economic model can get you going ... but rarely works after you reach a tipping point.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:18 pm

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 43):
= Let me rephase that to ... copying an economic model can get you going ... but rarely works after you reach a tipping point.

Cheers,
A.

...I don't see EK/Dubai completely copying Singapore, Hong Kong etc...I think what they have done however is hire people who know their industry very well..i.e. such as Flanagan or Clark in the air carrier sector..and there are others. Luring companies with "tax-free" status (such as the "tax-free zone") such as Haliburton is brilliant. They may not tax Haliburton, but the employees will certainly spend money there....and it certainly attracts other companies/corporations.

Also, unlike the 1970's when all they did was "blow" their money off on depreciating assets such as cars, etc, at least this time around they are making a "go" of it by investing rather than spending. Kudos to them for trying rather than sitting around and doing nothing.. thumbsup 

Apropos, one of SQ Chew's biggest concern was specifically EK...
"Up the Irons!"
 
caspritz78
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:51 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:29 pm

Sorry but it takes a little bit more then waving with money to become number 1. I doubt that EK will reach this goal with the strategy they apply right now.

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
hey want to use the money to expand and probably buy a European Airline!!!.... which one? He said that is confidential

Alitalia of course. You don't get any planes cheaper, do you!  Wink
 
andessmf
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:34 pm

In my short life I have seen two massive bubbles: the dot.com and housing. I called those as bubbles prior to them bursting and being recognized as such.

I call it here officially IMHO that EK will be a large airline, but not as large as they plan to get. Dubai is a bubble waiting to burst.
 
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mariner
Posts: 18113
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 46):
I called those as bubbles prior to them bursting and being recognized as such.

Hmmm? Most people recognized both as bubbles. Many believe that the present speculation in the oil market is a bubble.

Dubai bears little resemblance to any of those things. Emirates is profitable, for example, and has been for some time. Amazon, at the height of the dot.com boom, was not, or barely, profitable. Very few dot.com companies were profitable.

I am constantly amazed by the negativity that exists on this board to both Dubai and Emirates. A tiny country in a volatile but critical part of the world is using the forms of modern western capitalism to reinvent itself.

Perhaps you would prefer they go the way of Iraq, or Iran or Saudi Arabia?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
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RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:59 pm

The housing bubble created plenty of profit for many companies, which are now beginning to suffer. Amount of profit does not necessarily mean a bubble does not exist.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 46):
Perhaps you would prefer they go the way of Iraq, or Iran or Saudi Arabia?

They can certainly go the way of Singapore, which would be great in their own right. But their fleet requirements are 2X more than SQs. I think Dubai will do well, but not well enough to justify their huge fleet commitments. Even if I were to cut their A380 fleet outlook by 50%, they will still be the world's largest A380 operator.
 
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mariner
Posts: 18113
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:05 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 47):
Amount of profit does not necessarily mean a bubble does not exist.

I did not say that. I pointed out that most of the dot.com the companies were not profitable, but that a lot of people made a lot of money in the bubble.

I did - and I also lost a lot on CMGI. I knew it was a bubble but I didn't get out fast enough. I can't blame CMGI for my mistake.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 47):
But their fleet requirements are 2X more than SQs.

From memory, Emirates are making more money than SQ.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 47):
Even if I were to cut their A380 fleet outlook by 50%, they will still be the world's largest A380 operator.

And the problem with that is - ?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4049
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Be NO. 1 In The World

Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:14 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 46):
Hmmm? Most people recognized both as bubbles. Many believe that the present speculation in the oil market is a bubble.

Dubai bears little resemblance to any of those things. Emirates is profitable, for example, and has been for some time. Amazon, at the height of the dot.com boom, was not, or barely, profitable. Very few dot.com companies were profitable.

I am constantly amazed by the negativity that exists on this board to both Dubai and Emirates. A tiny country in a volatile but critical part of the world is using the forms of modern western capitalism to reinvent itself.

Perhaps you would prefer they go the way of Iraq, or Iran or Saudi Arabia?

mariner

= Personally I found your post to be condescending with the inherently good western capitalism juxtaposed over the evils of another system; very neo-colonial. I digress. I do not think that this is necessarily an attack on Dubai or the UAE. Lets leave the politics out of it as I am in no mood of providing a laundry list of things that directly contradict your battle against evil in a difficult neighbourhood argument,

Sticking to the economics of it though, I think I share the AndresSMF view that the risk profile for EK is high based on a lot of variables that it has no control over (ASAs, slots, ownership of foreign airlines, etc.). Like AndresSMF (who I rarely agree with!), I do think EK will be a major player ... but I do think that EK's grand visions could be wishful thinking. Of course, I find the proposects of DXB higher than EK in general.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 43):
...I don't see EK/Dubai completely copying Singapore, Hong Kong etc...I think what they have done however is hire people who know their industry very well..i.e. such as Flanagan or Clark in the air carrier sector..and there are others.

= Agree. However, SQ's growth was organic. While I am NOT a general fan of SQ, their fall in general service has been a recent phenomenon and not based on explosive growth. Having been a long time flyer of EK, I can personally attest that in a bid to be big, its service has gone down hill. Cosmetic touches and great IFEs only hide overall poor FAs, meals, etc. ... and my biggest grip, a LACK OF CONSISTENCY. On a good day, I get MH/9W/NH. On a bad day, I get a RJ/KU/SV. While SQ has fallen, it is remarkably consistent in providing an far above average flight ... not the best, but far above average.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.

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