timo007
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:41 am

Just announced on CNBC that an executive at Airbus stated Air India will purchase 10 to 12 A380s

Cheers,

Timo
 
victor009
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting Timo007 (Thread starter):
10 to 12 A380s

expected that , just was waiting when they will announce. ny news on how many options they have and first aircraft delivery year???

with QR deffering their deliveries any chance of AI getting 1-2 frames early?

Regards
VJC
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abba
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:47 am

That's good news for the program indeed!


Abba
 
cricket
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:54 am

Airbus CEO Tom Enders is in India as part of Angela Merkel's trade delegation and is pushing for the A380. AI has made it clear that it wants to purchase more heavy lift to use on sectors like India-LHR and India-East Coast US (1 stop) and that the A380 is in contention, however AI has not issued a RFP as yet and until an RFP is issued, lets not get ahead of ourselves!
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hawkercamm
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:04 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 3):
however AI has not issued a RFP as yet and until an RFP is issued, lets not get ahead of ourselves!

Don't always assume that a RFP will be made public. Even more so for political trades!
 
Reggaebird
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:20 am

Quoting Victor009 (Reply 1):
with QR deffering their deliveries any chance of AI getting 1-2 frames early?

This is news to me! When did QR defer their A380's? I thought only Virgin had deferred to-date.

Reggaebird
 
karan69
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:22 am

I really dont see the need for VLA aircraft amongst Indian Carriers, they require more 77W/3510 and 7810/359 category aircraft.

But seeing the A380 in their fleet i will be a happy man.

Karan
 
ikramerica
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting HawkerCamm (Reply 4):
Don't always assume that a RFP will be made public. Even more so for political trades!

Well NH is to offer an RFP next year for A380s they already ordered, according to some here, so why wouldn't AI do the same?  Wink

I have no idea of the veracity of the report, but if it's official, why would an Airbus exec say they ordered 10-12. Wouldn't he know the exact number?

I fully expect AI to order A380s at some point, but I'm not sure this is an accurate story.
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cricket
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting HawkerCamm (Reply 4):
Don't always assume that a RFP will be made public. Even more so for political trades!

Technically, under the Indian Right To Information Act, people can ask for the RFP to be made public if they file an RTI request!
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OHLHD
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 5):
This is news to me! When did QR defer their A380's?

Can´t find the thread now but there is one around here.  Smile

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 5):
I thought only Virgin had deferred to-date

EY has as well.
 
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scbriml
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 8):
Technically, under the Indian Right To Information Act, people can ask for the RFP to be made public if they file an RTI request!

Well, what are you waiting for? Please let us know the outcome!  wink 
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scbriml
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:38 am

AI's interest in the A380 is not exactly the World's best kept secret (pretty much like NH's interest).
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/airlines/20071018_airbus.htm

It's also hardly a surprise that interest in the A380 is high given EIS at SQ. Airbus is doing nothing more than feeding that interest by dropping a few hints.
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victor009
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:47 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
I have no idea of the veracity of the report, but if it's official, why would an Airbus exec say they ordered 10-12. Wouldn't he know the exact number?

thast becoz it "MEDIA" they think they know everything but actually they have no clue most of the times. Now for some months they have been constantly comparing A380 with B787 duhhhhhhh, these are 2 different aircrafts , serving 2 different segments/markets etc etc. just bcoz they are coming out at a similar time and both are new they have to compared.

Well we all know here AI is intrested in A380 and that no. is also been discussed.

Heard about the Greman entourage going to India in 2 full planes, well i am bit suprised with 12 expected 24 eheheehe (being cheeky here i know)

Regards
VJC
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cricket
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Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:55 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 10):
Well, what are you waiting for? Please let us know the outcome! wink

Because the RFP has not been issued yet...
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Air India To Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:10 am

Quoting Timo007 (Thread starter):
Just announced on CNBC that an executive at Airbus stated Air India will purchase 10 to 12 A380s

Let's clarify this in the interest's of being even handed. Title Changed to the following:

Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Here is why;

15:08 *AIRBUS SAYS AIR INDIA MAY NEED 10-12 A380 AIRCRAFT
15:12 *AIRBUS EXEC. VP KIRAN RAO SPEAKS IN NEW DELHI
15:12 *AIRBUS COO JOHN LEAHY SPEAKS IN NEW DELHI
15:12 *AIRBUS CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER TOM ENDERS SPEAKS IN NEW DELHI

Source subscriber only newswire via Bloomberg. On their website http://www.bloomberg.com do a search shortly and the full details of the story will come out. Until then it's nothing more than a series of "ticker bombs"

The only constructive point thus far is that we have an indication of the VLA requirement for AI

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scbriml
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:23 am

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 5):
This is news to me! When did QR defer their A380's?

Recently. There was a thread here about it, but I can't seem to find it just now. *shrug*

Here's the FI report:
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ays-pushes-back-a380s-to-2012.html
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PEET7G
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:38 am

Well I think this order is the best bet where anyone could put their money on... It is only a question of when and not if. Obviously what other market needs the A380 more than the Indian?
Peet7G
 
LHRBlueSkies
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:51 am

I think the expanding Indian market would be a good place for 380's to enter service, certainly internationally but also on a more limited domestic capacity.

I would be interested in how many seats AI would try and squeeze into their 380's, as I seem to remember that EK have already said that when they get their's, they will have some equipped for the Indian market with a considerably higher density seating than for other markets.

But as IKRAmerica says (basically!), let's wait and see what actually is forthcoming, as, apart from in politics, there is no greater PR spin than in aviation!
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abba
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:28 am

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 16):
Well I think this order is the best bet where anyone could put their money on... It is only a question of when and not if. Obviously what other market needs the A380 more than the Indian?

China...?

Abba
 
cricket
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:58 am

The Indian civ av minister Praful Patel mentioned the A380 for AI when he welcomed the (sic) new 777's into AI a few months ago. The fact that AI is looking for VLA's to replace/supplement the 744 fleet particularly on India-Europe-N.A flights is well known for a while. However, it is also clear that any RFP for a potential order will only happen after India's new Civil Aviation policy is cleared by the Indian Cabinet. It is an AI order for god's sake.. it takes time! If it gets done in 12 months as some are saying (orders placed end-08 and first deliveries by 2011-12) that will be like a record!
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scouseflyer
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:05 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 19):
It is an AI order for god's sake.. it takes time! If it gets done in 12 months as some are saying (orders placed end-08 and first deliveries by 2011-12) that will be like a record!

That's true, AI orders seem to take almost as long as SU orders to actually be firmed! Big grin
 
Reggaebird
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:23 am

Quoting Abba (Reply 18):
Quoting PEET7G (Reply 16):
Well I think this order is the best bet where anyone could put their money on... It is only a question of when and not if. Obviously what other market needs the A380 more than the Indian?

China...?

Abba

Are you suggesting that India and China require the A380 due to the sizes of their populations? If so, I believe that's not true. The percentage of Indian and Chinese nationals that fly is significantly smaller than than the percentages of European, East Asian and North American populations that fly. Granted 85% of 300,000,000 is less than 25% of 1.2 billion but if the US airline industry doesn't "require" the A380, neither should China nor India. The selection of the A380 is going to be more of a competitive choice than anything else. The same phenomenon was seen when the 747 came on the market years ago. Airlines that didn't need it chose to buy it to stay competitive with their peers. The market soon returned to sensible decisions and the 747 left several fleets and remained where it was truly practical. I expect the same to happen with the A380.

Reggaebird
 
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scbriml
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:26 am

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 5):
This is news to me! When did QR defer their A380's?

OK, found it in the end! QR Shifts A380 Delivery To 2012 Due To Airport (by Flying-Tiger Oct 25 2007 in Civil Aviation)
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:31 am

This will rumble on and on no doubt - I think AI are in a similar position to PK in that for their LHR routes the 747 has done fine but now that the 77W is coming into the fleets of both carriers, capacity has reached a zenith and they cannot expand more unless they add flights which to LHR is very difficult. Eventually they will almost certainly need a VLA.

Problem is in India, and Pakistan as well, there is so much politics behind the scenes as both carriers ars State-run, so whatever they order will be seen as favouritism towards either the US or Europe. Shrewd ministers at both airlines realised a long time ago that some smart lobbying and "a willingness to listen to all sides of the argument" usually equates to their airline getting a wonderful deal.

I think the VLA requirement is a no-brainer now, but will become painfully evident once BA, VS, LH, AF etc start invading Mumbai and Delihi with them. I suspect the real problem lies in the airport infrastucture in India - how many airports are A380 ready? I suppose the more pertinent question would be - How long will it take for this to change? Nothing happens quickly in India and there are processes for processes for processes.

They could surprise us by ordering now and asking questions later, but I am not holding my breath. The mechanics of this order have probably been ticking over for a year or more, and will have gathered pace recently. IT have ordered it and I thinkk Jet will do so as well - if that happens then AI will be in a bad position I think. You have to remember, national pride is still a big factor in State-run airlines like AI and PK and the A380 will be very attractive in this regard.

I still think there is scope for the 748I here.
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cornish
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 23):
I suspect the real problem lies in the airport infrastucture in India - how many airports are A380 ready?

DEL will be for 2010 when the new development opens in time for the Commonwealth Games.
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:54 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 24):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 23):
I suspect the real problem lies in the airport infrastucture in India - how many airports are A380 ready?

DEL will be for 2010 when the new development opens in time for the Commonwealth Games.

Mumbai I would say is nearly as important and even more likely to get A380 service. Bangalore? Amritsar maybe?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
cornish
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:04 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 25):
Mumbai I would say is nearly as important and even more likely to get A380 service. Bangalore? Amritsar maybe?

Bangalore is getting a new airport so should have no problem accomodating the A380 - particularly as it is Kingfisher's home.

Mumbai is more important commercially than DEL, but has real constraints with the site - somethnig DEL does not have. DEL is also progressing quicker on its modernisation than DEL. Ultimately Mumbai will need another airport (almost certain to be at Navi Mumbai).

As for most other Indian airports, they are much further from being modernised than the big airports, due to still being under state operation, and its a moot point whether any of the others would expect to see A380 operation in the medium term anyway.
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BigTom
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:10 am

HYD's new airport is also expected to come on stream next year.

Cheers
 
PEET7G
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:14 am

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 21):
Are you suggesting that India and China require the A380 due to the sizes of their populations?

No, I am suggesting that they will require the Whalejet for the unbelievably expanding business travellers and the higher ratio of nationals working abroad. The U.S. market is a perfect business case for point to point travelling, while both China and India lacks the airport infrastructure to support major international travelling from every airport. In both countries they will be forced to flow thru hubs like BOM, DEL, PVG, HKG, GZH or PEK...

Of course airports are being developed like mad in these countries, but they have a long way to go and it will be long before you will be able to have the same variety of direct destinations in India or China like you have in the U.S.

...and one small, but important point: -there will always be more Indian or Chinese nationals working abroad than foreigners working in their countries  Smile
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Burkhard
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:40 am

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 21):
If so, I believe that's not true. The percentage of Indian and Chinese nationals that fly is significantly smaller than than the percentages of European, East Asian and North American populations that fly.

This still is true, but I see no reason why this is a natural laws forever, and the current growth rates indicate that this per head difference is shrinking like snow in the sun - only question: How long is the summer?

20% growth over 10 years is a factor of 6. So even if India and China manage to double the number of slots out of their densely populated areas in that time, which I doubt, aircraft size has to go up by a factor of 3. So what is a 737-200 now will be a 787-300, and what is a 767 now will be a 388 or bigger. Europe and North America have to understand that they no longer are the major players in the game of globalisation...
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:46 am

Ok, there are now many reports of this and all state that Airbus may sell, or is in talks, to sell A380s to AI

Airbus in talks with Air India about A380

NEW DELHI: Airbus is in talks to sell A380 jets to state-run Air India, senior Airbus officials said Tuesday, predicting the superjumbos would play a key role in the expansion of the Indian aviation industry.

So far the European aircraft manufacturer has orders for just five of the A380 jets from one Indian carrier, Kingfisher Airlines, and Boeing officials have expressed skepticism over the need for such big planes in the Indian market.

"We are in discussions with Air India now and we think they would need about 10 to 12 A380 aircraft as soon as we can deliver them," said Airbus Chief Operating Officer John Leahy at a news conference.

Leahy said if Air India were to commit in the next few months they could probably take delivery by 2011.

Air India was looking at various options for company needs beyond 2011, but no decisions have been made yet, said Jitender Bhargava, executive director of public relations in Mumbai.


http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...0/business/AS-FIN-India-Airbus.php

So the comments entirely come from Airbus with a rather non-committal statement from Air India. The number of frames required, as stated by Airbus, is in my opinion, overstated in relation to an initial firm order for their VLA requirement. That said, one should keep in mind that when a delegation such as this is pitching for business one can expect that the numbers spoken of are orders expected over the lifetime of their current market forecast for the next 20 years.

Besides, as has been pointed out......

Quoting Cricket (Reply 13):
Because the RFP has not been issued yet...

.....the Airbus / EADS delegation is there for more than just civil business and aircraft sales

Airbus, which has an engineering centre in Bangalore with 30 employees, will have a staff of 250 at the centre by 2010, when it will have an integrated technology park in place in the southern city, said Kiran Rao, president of Airbus India.

Its investment of $600 million into various projects in India, including manufacture and design, as a part of the offset for an order by state carrier Indian Airlines [IA.UL], would generate revenues of $1 billion, Rao said.


Reuters also quote Mr Leahy as being rather confident of an A380 sale, but when is he not?  Wink

"We hope to add Air-India to our order book very soon," he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSB17671120071030

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Stitch
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:12 pm

Let me start off by saying that my comments are not a belief by myself that AI does not need nor can use A380s. I'm on record here saying I think the A380 could be a good fit for AI.

However, while I was under the impression that JFK-LHR-India was a very strong route for AI in terms of traffic and demand, that impression has been challenged by a number of members with knowledge of the current Indian aviation market.

As such, AI may not need A380s at this time. Then again, if they want deliveries in the middle 2010's, ordering now would be a prudent move, especially if Airbus was willing to take a small deposit to secure the order, since AI would not need to start really paying for the planes until they enter production five years or more from now.
 
jfk777
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:50 pm

Given how much India is growing and Air India is trying to re-lauch ins self in something "Asian" they are going to buy the beast. They need for LHR alone and other destinations. With the airport infrastructure bursting at the seams in Mumbai and Delhi fewer passenger movements are the answer. The government will want the A380 too for the prestige and to gone alog with AI's new 777 and 787 fleet.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:21 pm

I'm surprised that Air India wasn't one of the early customers for the A380-800 in the first place. There are HUGE ex-patriate Indian communities in the UK and North America and the A388 would have been the perfect plane to accommodate the massive demand for flights from North America/UK to India.
 
redflyer
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:33 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 33):
I'm surprised that Air India wasn't one of the early customers for the A380-800 in the first place.

I don't think anyone was as surprised as Airbus.
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ikramerica
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:51 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 31):
As such, AI may not need A380s at this time. Then again, if they want deliveries in the middle 2010's,

This has always been my point about the A380 as marketed in 2000. It's a nice plane and a triumph on the "look what we can do as mankind" scale, and in fact it's the plane "everyone needs" to an extent, just 6-8 years sooner than they really start to need it. EIS in 2012 rather than 2006 (planned) would make the plane more advanced/efficient when most of the carriers truly start to need the plane. As it stands now, to remain competitive past 2017, Airbus is going to need to re-engine the girl and lighten it a great deal to boot, at great expense.

There were only 3 carriers who really "needed" the plane in 2006-2007. SQ, which has a 12 year aircraft cycle, thus forcing a replacement need sooner than most as they weren't about to buy more 744s to replace older 744s, EK, which has plans to take over the earth before targeting mars and venus and needs 500 million planes to do so, and QF, who ignored the A346/77W while the rest of the world made (or is making) great use of those aircraft. KE and MH don't exactly need the plane in 2008 either, but they can make use of it. LH only starts take deliveries in 2009, but could have waited until 2012 if the result was an even more kickass aircraft. Ditto AF.

For the rest of the world, they would much rather have had a more advanced plane enter service 5-7 years later as well. Don't believe me? Look at the deferrals even after the program delay... AF, EY, VS and QR all deferred delivery, 27 early deliveries delayed. While all of them want to fly the plane, it's pretty evident they don't really "need" it right now.

Which is not to say the plane will be a dog in 2012 by any means, as it will still be very efficient, but it will already be 1/2 way through it's sales life as a true "competitive" aircraft unless major changes are made to it. Airbus is seeing to that with it's A350X, and Boeing will respond with something else efficient sometime mid-decade. In the widebody market, though they fly for 20+ years, they have a new sales life of about 12 years unless major upgrades are made, mostly because newer planes come along to hasten that demise.

One of the reasons the 744 was so successful was that it was a few years "late" to market. There was pent up demand at EIS both due to the need to replace older 747s (with too many costly crew) and because it could fly further than all other planes available. And yet it still delivered most of it's passenger frames within 12 years of EIS, with the ER version not attracting interest, despite a "20 year" forecast for VLA demand. This is because the market saw new entrants that had newer technology and similar abilities, and Boeing itself hastened the 744 demise with the 777. The A380 program, even though it's delayed, still has to wait for the demand to kick in at EIS, but it won't magically extend that 12 year period of technological relevance due to the delays. And Airbus will hasten the A380 slow down with it's own product, just as Boeing did to the 744 before it.
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:48 am

A solid summary, Ikramerica.

It also, I believe, supports the idea that the A380-800R and A380-900 might not be coming anytime soon, if at all.

If an airline need more capacity then a 77W/A3510/787-11, I believe they will take the A380-800. And if they need more capacity that that, they will take two of them. Or three. Or four.

While folks have posted statements where airline executives and analysts have said they like the A380-900, I don't believe any of them other then EK is serious enough about it to order enough to justify the expense of launching it. And I believe EK would cancel A380-800 orders and switch them to A380-900 orders and would not take delivery of all 50-so A388s and then add scores of A389s on top of that.

I just do not see the 747-8I as gaining any traction. LH...hamstrung...themselves by buying the A346 instead of the 77W, but that decision was driven by many factors that made the A346 the better choice at the time, even if not in the long run. As such, I think LH is somewhat forced to take the 747-8I, though they might be able to hold out for the A350-1000 if they can economically get out from under their 747-8I commitment.

As such, I just don't see Airbus needing to launch an A380-800R or A380-900 for competitive reasons, nor am I sure they could generate enough sales from each to make it worthwhile.

The A380-800R does have the advantage it's relatively easy and inexpensive to create, so a nice combined order for two score from EK, SQ, and QF could justify program launch and would, I think, ensure CX chooses the A380-800 as well as other Chinese and Taiwanese carriers. And since it is just an A380-800 with a center tank operating at a higher MTOW, it leverages everything currently committed to the A380-800 program and therefore directly goes back to improving RoI.

But I see the A380-900 as a competitor and cannibal to the A380-800. If it can do everything the A380-800 can do, but more and better, why buy the A380-800? And since it carries more folks and payload, you need less of them. Instead of buying two A388s, you buy one A389 and a 77W/A3510/787-11. As such, I think the A389 would overall reduce A380 program RoI, not help it.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 32):
Air India is trying to re-lauch ins self in something "Asian

What does that mean  Confused AI has always been an Asian airline....what more does it need to become "Asian"...?
 
Alessandro
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:32 am

I think they feel the heat from Kingfisher, but I doubt they order any A380ies.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 38):
I think they feel the heat from Kingfisher, but I doubt they order any A380ies.

The 748 maybe..... bouncy 
 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 38):
I think they feel the heat from Kingfisher, but I doubt they order any A380ies.

IT has yet to get permission to send an A320, much less an A380, out of the country.  Smile

Also, while IT did order the "Airbus Starter Pack" which includes five of each Airbus model, that is still a pretty small force to field against AI's current and future fleet as currently on order.
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 35):
Look at the deferrals even after the program delay... AF, EY, VS and QR all deferred delivery, 27 early deliveries delayed.

It seems reasonable to assume that the airlines that deferred did not receive compensation payments, and that 27 earlier delivery slots were freed up for airlines that didn't defer, thus minimizing further compensation payments (or even outright cancellations!) I would not be one bit surprised if Airbus, and not airline demand, was the force behind these deferrals.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 35):
Boeing itself hastened the 744 demise with the 777

That can't be over-emphasized. The 77W, for some missions, can carry more payload than the 744 while using significantly less fuel.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 36):
And I believe EK would cancel A380-800 orders and switch them to A380-900 orders

Aye, that's a big issue for the A389... there's incremental investment to build it, but will it be justified by the incremental returns? Not likely if every A389 gained is an A388 lost.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 36):
But I see the A380-900 as a competitor and cannibal to the A380-800. If it can do everything the A380-800 can do, but more and better, why buy the A380-800?

Well, by the same token, why buy the 787-8 when one can buy the 787-9?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 36):
I think LH is somewhat forced to take the 747-8I

Unless they convert to 748F?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 36):
The A380-800R does have the advantage it's relatively easy and inexpensive to create

You seem to classify the A388R and A389 into distinctly different levels of difficulty. Are they not the same airplane, give or take a few fuselage frames? Remember, a couple of fuselage plugs are not the expensive part of the proposition... (wing, landing gear and engines are)
 
kaitak744
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:50 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 41):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 36):
But I see the A380-900 as a competitor and cannibal to the A380-800. If it can do everything the A380-800 can do, but more and better, why buy the A380-800?

Well, by the same token, why buy the 787-8 when one can buy the 787-9?

The A380-800 has a lower purchase price than the A380-900, and the 787-8 has a lower purchase price than the 787-9.
Why buy a 777-200ER when there is a 777-300ER that can do everything better? The 772ER is simply cheaper.

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 41):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 36):
I think LH is somewhat forced to take the 747-8I

Unless they convert to 748F?

Lufthansa ordered the 747-8 for two main reasons. The gap between the A340-600 and A380 is huge. (If they had 777-300ERs, they probably would not have ordered the 747-8). And, the 747-8s came at a very very low price, given that they were the launch customer. I do not see them converting to 747-8Fs.

And the 747-8i program will not be shut down. The plane will enter service. The 777-200LR was built with only 5 orders in the beginning... And, even if Lufthansa converts to the freighter, the 747-8i would still be built for the VIP orders, which are now at 5.
 
BigTom
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 37):
What does that mean AI has always been an Asian airline....what more does it need to become "Asian"...?

Well it seems our American friends don't think so, India is not Asia, Asia is China, Japan, Korea, et al. India is ... well India, but citizens from India are not Indians ... they are Asian Indian, East Indian etc Makes sense? Big grin I'm still trying to figure it out ...,

Cheers
 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:18 pm

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 41):
Well, by the same token, why buy the 787-8 when one can buy the 787-9?

Well the 787-9 can do more then the 787-8 can in terms of range, but point is taken. However, the 787-8 also has more competition then then the A380-800 has.

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 41):
Unless (LH) convert to 748F?

I am not sure LH needs 20 747-8Fs, but that would be an option.
 
mk777
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RE: Airbus: Air India May Purchase 10 To 12 A380s

Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:07 pm

Before AI starts to buy planes, the officials who run it, should seriously sit down and discuss their route network. Their 772LR's are not being utilized fully and now they would like to go DEL-JFK non-stop on the 77W's. It has been discussed to death that AI really needs to start moving away from the NYC market as they already have a one-stop to EWR and JFK albeit from BOM and DEL respectively along with a BOM-JFK non-stop, do they really need another A388 size a/c to fly to NY, maybe in the future around 2012-2015, but as of now they need to start thinking what other cities besides NY they would want to serve. ORD, LAX and YYZ are already being served by one-stop thru FRA, LHR and BHX.

Why not start one-stop to IAH via MAN on the 77W??

Start a non-stop to IAD, ORD with the 772LR's from DEL instead and move the non-stop away from the competitive NYC market. Once they get in the A380 a few years from now, they can sell their slots at LHR or just terminate flights at LHR, FRA, CDG and fly non-stop to NY.

As of now, i see no strategy at the AI headquarters atleast on their route plannings. my  twocents 
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