User avatar
alberchico
Posts: 2938
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:31 pm

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.asp?board_id=2975

hmmm does it remind you of any plane that you know
 Wink  Wink  Wink
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:42 pm

Single engine? I have my doubts...
I lift things up and put them down.
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Wow. What an original concept. Anyone tell Britten-Norman about this?
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
National757
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:05 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic

Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:26 pm

From http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.asp?board_id=2975.



Quote:

In September 2007, Integrity Aircraft announced that they are developing a proto type, known as the Integrity, that will be a 20 seat tail mounted turbo prop with STOL capabilities. Additionally, the unique mounting location of the turbine facilities quick-turnarounds with the engine running. This effectively reduces accumulation of engine cycles, which is one of the parameters that can reduce engine overhaul costs. Since engine overhaul costs are a major cost consideration in running an airline, this will have a very significant effect on the profitability of many operators. A selling price of 1.9m (in 2007 USD) is quoted.
An Entry-into-Service date of early 2008 is anticipated

Doesn't it take longer than a few months to get an aircraft certified by the FAA?

They mention quick turns as one of the advantages to having a tail mounted prop but wouldn't the additional maintenance costs associated with servicing tail mounted engines negate any cost or efficiency gains?

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 2):
Wow. What an original concept. Anyone tell Britten-Norman about this?

I take it they aren't worried as this concept likely won't ever get off the ground. These clowns are the same group of people who sponsored a NASCAR racing team, only to be sued later for nonpayment.
This article has more information about Three Sixty, Inc.

Here's a photo of the Britten-Norman plane LHMARK mentioned in his post:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Trimbee



Something doesn't seem right here. The concept mentioned above is an exact copy of the Britten-Norman plane minus the two wing mounted propeller engines!
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:35 pm

Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):
mmm does it remind you of any plane that you know
Wink Wink Wink

I officially dub thee "Singlander" (my apologies to Britten-Norman and the Trislander) Big grin

Quoting National757 (Reply 3):
Quote:

In September 2007, Integrity Aircraft announced that they are developing a proto type, known as the Integrity, that will be a 20 seat tail mounted turbo prop with STOL capabilities.

Unfortunately, due to the FAR's in the United States, it will never be able to enter scheduled passenger service with more than 9 passenger seats  no 
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:40 pm

Quoting National757 (Reply 3):
Doesn't it take longer than a few months to get an aircraft certified by the FAA?

Not if your design is a derivative of an already FAA certified type...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
dw747400
Posts: 1091
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 8:24 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:09 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
Unfortunately, due to the FAR's in the United States, it will never be able to enter scheduled passenger service with more than 9 passenger seats

That was my first thought upon seeing this thing. I'd imagine most other regulatory authorities have similar provisions, leaving you with the market of non-schedualed operators needing to move 20 people at a time and wanting to avoid jets and multi-engine turboprops.

Doesn't seem to be a viable market.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:37 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 5):
Not if your design is a derivative of an already FAA certified type...

Oh, this "singlander" will

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 5):
Quoting National757 (Reply 3):
Doesn't it take longer than a few months to get an aircraft certified by the FAA?

Not if your design is a derivative of an already FAA certified type...

This "machine" would take a lot longer than nine months!! (Of course, it will never happen as the company is a penny stock scam).
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
vheca
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 9:20 pm

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:50 am

Hey all,

I let you in on some insider trading (Don't tell anyone!)  shhh 

I have raided my kids Monopoly set and I am out to buy 9 of these aircraft for a new Australian airline.  bigthumbsup 

Be prepared to make some money! Buy stock now!  dollarsign 

BTW the airline is called Notfarkinglikely Airlines out of Koo Wee Rup! (Got a brand new international airport out there funded by the same company!)  liar 

WTF? Are these guys serious! Not to judge a book by its cover but the people look as dodgy as the aircraft! Any aviation-minded person will have to be shaking their heads at these guys!

VH-ECA
PAX on-312,320,722,732,733,73H,73W,739,742,743,74C,752,753,762,789,AB4,CR7,D1C,D28,DHT,F27,L11
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
Unfortunately, due to the FAR's in the United States, it will never be able to enter scheduled passenger service with more than 9 passenger seats

It won't be an issue. They just have tell the FAA that it's 'supposed' to have 3 engines. Which also means ETOPS should not be a problem.

What's quite interesting, is when the Trislander performed at airshows, it regularly did flights using just the tail engine  Smile

I guess these guys saw it once!


Jimbo

[Edited 2007-10-31 19:57:24]
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:56 am

Would a single engine aircraft then apply for ENOPS?  drunk 
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
User avatar
BreninTW
Posts: 1532
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:31 pm

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 10):
Would a single engine aircraft then apply for ENOPS?

It'll be certified right after the first brick is certified  Silly
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 11):
It'll be certified right after the first brick is certified

Ah, the timing was right then! The A380 got certified a while back  Wink


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
D328
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:50 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:18 am

This doesn't seem like it will really be STOL as they say? One 1100hp engine? Doesn't make sense because most planes with 2 engines in the 19-20 seat have two 1000hp engines, like the Metro III, B1900D has over 1200hp a side, Jetstream 31 940hp a side, even though they are heavier and complex. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'd say it seems under powered, but not that bad. I compared planes below.

Hopper max take off weight is 10000lb, has 1100hp, seats up to 20. usefull load 4800.b.
PC-12 max take off weight is more than the Hopper by 450lbs, and has 1200hp. seats up to 9. Usefull load 4583lb.
Caravan max take off weight is 8750lb, and has 675hp, seats 14. usefull load 4180lb.
Trislander max take off weight is 6600lb, has a total of 780hp, seats up to 18, usefull load of 3012.
 
rleiro
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:54 pm

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:22 am

It comes with the first "Fly-by-Wire" set seen in a prop: :



Warm Regards from Venezuela,

Roberto.

[Edited 2007-10-31 20:25:39]
A proud SVZM Spotter!
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting D328 (Reply 13):
This doesn't seem like it will really be STOL as they say? One 1100hp engine? Doesn't make sense because most planes with 2 engines in the 19-20 seat have two 1000hp engines, like the Metro III, B1900D has over 1200hp a side, Jetstream 31 940hp a side, even though they are heavier and complex. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'd say it seems under powered, but not that bad. I compared planes below.

However, the most powerful flat Lycomings (of which the Trislander had three) have 400 HP per engine, so discounting the induced drag from the now absent wing engines, ~1100 HP just might do the trick  Wink
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:01 am

Quoting Rleiro (Reply 14):
It comes with the first "Fly-by-Wire" set seen in a prop: :

Uh, wouldn't that be "fly by wireless?"  Wink

Remind me not to be around when it flys out of range from the transmitter  scared 
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
iwok
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:35 pm

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):
hmmm does it remind you of any plane that you know

It appears that they have some patent or design rights to the Britten-Norman

http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/071022/0318275.html
"IAHL holds the patent for placing a turboprop power plant high up in the tail fin of the aircraft thereby creating the following:.......dramatic increase in power -- the installed Honeywell TPE 331-12 engine increases overall power 22% from previous 3 Lycoming 540 series piston engines used on predecessor platform"

By using the term "predecessor platform" it appears that they have a controlling stake in the IP from BN.

http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/071002/0309559.html
".....The company expects massive savings will be realized in the certification of the basic airframe design, certifications and capabilities as we have already acquired certain Intellectual Properties of previously developed aircraft that will be utilized in the manufacturing of this aircraft."

I guess theoretically they could introduce this aircraft in short order due to the amount of work already done. They probably aquired the IP and designs real cheap. The concept does indeed seem intruiging to me, although don't expect me to buy 1 share of the penny stock  Smile

iwok
 
D328
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:50 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:53 am

Would this plane be the most passengers(20) for a single engine plane; propeller or even jet?

Tried some research and found that:

Bellanca Aircruiser held up to 15.
http://www.bellanca-championclub.com/menander/index.html

Cessna Caravan: 14

Antonov-2 & 3: 12

DeHavilland Otter: up to 11
 
iflyac
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:11 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:51 am

Quoting Rleiro (Reply 14):
It comes with the first "Fly-by-Wire" set seen in a prop:

Now that was friggin hilarious..lol
What was it we had for dinner tonight? Well, we had a choice of steak or fish. Yes, yes, I remember, I had lasagna.
 
jarvis78
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:38 pm

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:37 am

This actually isn't anything new in terms of the concept. Back around 1998 I was talking to a pilot with thousands of hours on BN2 Islanders, and he said that 'they' (meaning Britten-Norman), had, or were, considering the idea of putting a tail mounted turbo-prop engine on the Trislander.
 
StickShaker
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:34 pm

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting National757 (Reply 3):
They mention quick turns as one of the advantages to having a tail mounted prop but wouldn't the additional maintenance costs associated with servicing tail mounted engines negate any cost or efficiency gains

Is there a single country out there where its legal for passengers to board/disembark with an engine running ?
Turbo-props guzzle fuel, even when idling so there are no real savings to be had here.
How is a fuselage and tail desinged for a 350/400 hp Lycoming going to support an 1100 hp turboprop without massive and expensive structural mods.
Who wants a 20 seat STOL turbo-prop single that will not be able to achieve much more than 100 kts ?

Think its all a load of bollocks.


Cheers,
StickShaker
 
TransIsland
Posts: 1826
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:22 pm

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting StickShaker (Reply 21):
Is there a single country out there where its legal for passengers to board/disembark with an engine running ?

I don't know about legal, but I see hackers operating Aztecs (Navajos, Senecas, etc.) do it all the time, and on the Out Islands, I've seen UP do it with Dash-8s.
I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
 
Baron52ta
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:52 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:14 pm

Isn't the Trilander tail heavy?so this would therefore be more so being that it doesn't have the extra weight on the wings to help offset some of the tail. They extended the nose on the Trilander to add weight forward so unless they are going to stretch this thing it won't work, Yes I know they must have done some research but I don't think they thought it through very well.
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:21 pm

Quoting Baron52ta (Reply 23):
I don't think they thought it through very well.

Given that they have clearly just taken a Trislander and removed two engines, I think that is the understatement of the century.

Quoting StickShaker (Reply 21):
Think its all a load of bollocks.

For the reasons you've outlined and a whole lot more, I couldn't have summed it up any better than that. These guys are a complete joke.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:56 pm

Quoting Baron52ta (Reply 23):
Isn't the Trilander tail heavy?so this would therefore be more so being that it doesn't have the extra weight on the wings to help offset some of the tail. They extended the nose on the Trilander to add weight forward so unless they are going to stretch this thing it won't work,



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 24):
Given that they have clearly just taken a Trislander and removed two engines, I think that is the understatement of the century.

That's why the nose looks a little different, and is painted black ... it's solid lead.

I understand the pax are seated 6-abreast at the front of the aircraft.

Interestingly, the ads I see for test pilots, have minimum body weight requirements.

...so they did think it through.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)

Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:41 pm

Quoting Iwok (Reply 17):
I guess theoretically they could introduce this aircraft in short order due to the amount of work already done. They probably aquired the IP and designs real cheap. The concept does indeed seem intruiging to me



Quoting Baron52ta (Reply 23):
Isn't the Trilander tail heavy?so this would therefore be more so being that it doesn't have the extra weight on the wings to help offset some of the tail. They extended the nose on the Trilander to add weight forward so unless they are going to stretch this thing it won't work, Yes I know they must have done some research but I don't think they thought it through very well.

This aircraft really is a silly joke.. and an unfortunate scam for gullible investors. In addition to the many posts above on why this aircraft is not realistic, one just has to realize that you can't simply swap a 400 hp engine way up the tail with a 1100 hp engine. The increased structural loads are enormous requiring a complete tail redesign... but not just to beef up the empennage from the increased power but also because it has to be increased in size since they have moved the wing closer to the tail for CofG reasons. The amount of redesign on this airplane is so significant that there is no way that they would get a CofA within a couple of years... let alone 9 MONTHS!!!!!!
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein