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Qatara340
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Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:02 pm

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---Al Qabas Newspaper----

Summary:

There has been tensions between Iranian Journalists and people reguarding the naming of the Arabian Gulf by Arab countries. Iranian Parliment president Ghulam Ali Haddad Adel warned in the begining of the Iranian Advisory Council that it will prevent Qatar Airways from landing in Iranian airports if it continued to use "Arabian Gulf" in its flights, which Iranians consider a fake version of the Persian Gulf. A parliament member Bower Ahmed sent an official protest to Iranian Foreign Minister Manoshahar Motaky, explaining the importance of complaining to the government of Qatar because of the use of the Arabian Gulf.
____

Qatar Airways flies 10 times a week to Tehran and 3 times a week to Mashad.
____

EK uses the term Arabian Gulf in its flights, as it is illegal in that country to use Persian Gulf.

___
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:07 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
Qatar Airways flies 10 times a week to Tehran and 3 times a week to Mashad.
____

EK uses the term Arabian Gulf in its flights, as it is illegal in that country to use Persian Gulf.

Aren't there more important issues in the world for all of these countries to contend with?
 
Basefly
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:08 pm

Well it seems to be fashionable these days to block of airspace, just because you dont like some one.  headache 
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kaitak
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:12 pm

That's an overreaction; although, I wonder if the fact that Qatar is such a big US ally makes it a convenient target for Iranian bullying.

I know names have a lot of significance, but let's face it, Qatar should have some say in what the sea that surrounds them is called. It's not as if they are the only ones to call it the Arabian Gulf.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:18 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
Iranian Parliment president Ghulam Ali Haddad Adel warned in the begining of the Iranian Advisory Council that it will prevent Qatar Airways from landing in Iranian airports if it continued to use "Arabian Gulf" in its flights, which Iranians consider a fake version of the Persian Gulf.

This whole war-of-words seems a bit over the top. Maybe someone should put the aircon in higher gear.

Reminds me of the FYROM debate.
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Qatara340
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:24 pm

The truth of the matter is that the term "Arabian Gulf" appears in the inflight maps only (also the inflight magazine)... Certainly its not as if QR is PROMOTING the term or something....

Such a shame if they ban QR of flying there because of a word.Seems like the Iranians have a bit of extra time in their clocks to worry about these things.
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trintocan
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:42 pm

Most times nowadays the said body of water is referred to as simply The Gulf - perhaps this term would appease everybody. I have heard the term Persian Gulf on many occasions but this is the first time I am hearing it being called Arabian Gulf.

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yowza
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
That's an overreaction; although, I wonder if the fact that Qatar is such a big US ally makes it a convenient target for Iranian bullying.

I'm sure that's part of it, but it runs a little deeper.

Don't forget that the rift between Iran and the Arabs is a longstanding one. A main sticking point, more than this naming debacle are the islands in the Persian/Arabian Gulf which Iran contend are theirs but GCC countries also claim as their own. I'm referring mainly to Abu Musa, but there are others. This is where the crux of the debate lies. Now if Iran wish to push this issue they WILL lose. The GCC are strong enough (both economically and of resolve) to put the screws to Iran. And should the needs arise they will. Let's not forget that EK are also in this mix because it is the UAE who contend that Abu Musa is part of their country. This may be the first time EK and QR work together  Smile

Given the huge Iranian populace in Dubai. The same populace sending investment capital back to Iran, money it needs badly, they will back off. Sabre rattling is one thing, shooting yourself in the foot is quite another. This will go away.

You can expect a visit by Al-Baker to Iran in the near future to try and settle things down.
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semsem
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:08 pm

Wasn't there also a while ago a problem with Macedonia?
 
N1120A
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:23 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 9):
A main sticking point, more than this naming debacle are the islands in the Persian/Arabian Gulf which Iran contend are theirs but GCC countries also claim as their own. I'm referring mainly to Abu Musa, but there are others.

Abu Musa and the Tunbs are the ones mostly at issue. BTW, this goes back to the days of the Shah.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 9):
This is where the crux of the debate lies. Now if Iran wish to push this issue they WILL lose. The GCC are strong enough (both economically and of resolve) to put the screws to Iran.

I wouldn't think so fast at that point. Iran has a significantly stronger navy than any of those countries.
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OA260
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:46 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 5):
Reminds me of the FYROM debate.



Quoting Semsem (Reply 10):
Wasn't there also a while ago a problem with Macedonia?

The issue is still being fought out and there is a war of words at the moment. There is Yugoslav Macedonia and Greek Macedonia and any name must reflect that fact !!! No one country has the right to soley use the name ''Macedonia'' . In the end they will both have to come to the table and agree a compromise.


I have always known the Gulf as the Persian Gulf but then again I have also heard people use the term Arabian Gulf. Whats the international law on it ??? or is there one???
 
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yowza
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:13 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
I wouldn't think so fast at that point. Iran has a significantly stronger navy than any of those countries.

I'm not contesting that. But if you think for a second that Iran will strike over this, I'm going to have to disagree with you. The GCC collectively are quite strong and given the importance of petroleum to the west the NATO, EU and of course the USA on it's own would be there guns ablazing in about 15 minutes.

YOWza
 
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 15):
But if you think for a second that Iran will strike over this, I'm going to have to disagree with you.

No, I don't think Iran will use its military in this, as Iran generally doesn't act as an aggressor nation anyway. I am sure all of this will be taken care of diplomatically, as it has been for years. The islands dispute has been going on for more than 3 decades, and Iran and Dubai don't seem to have a problem doing business.
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Marcus
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
EK uses the term Arabian Gulf in its flights, as it is illegal in that country to use Persian Gulf.

Really?.....why is it illegal?
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antskip
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:16 am

Quoting Marcus (Reply 17):
Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
EK uses the term Arabian Gulf in its flights, as it is illegal in that country to use Persian Gulf.

Really?.....why is it illegal?

EK does use Persian Gulf on its web site:
"Qatar is a small peninsula in the Persian Gulf"
http://www.emirates.com/au/traveller...onguide/p-r/qatar/qatarcoutry.asp.

"Iran is located in the Middle East, bordering the Gulf of Oman, the Persian Gulf and the Caspian Sea"
http://www.emirates.com/au/traveller...ionguide/d-i/iran/irancountry.asp.

This Dubai travel company uses Persian Gulf on its map:
http://www.dubaiallhotelsresorts.com/dubai-map.html.

So does http://www.thepersiangulf.org/cities/dubai.html.

Calling the Persian Gulf the Arabian Gulf probably has as much more to do with US (un?)diplomatic interests in the region, which favours any position that seems to be against Iran (except, of course, for the pro-Iranian Iraqi Shia..). Sunni Arab power structures are long-standing enemies of an independent Shiite Iran, post-Shah. See
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IJ27Ak01.html.
I think most people in the street would see such posturing by the Arab ruling elites as the propogandist self-serving rubbish that it is. Ordinary people will continue to call a spade a spade.

[Edited 2007-10-31 17:46:49]
 
atmx2000
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting Antskip (Reply 18):
Calling the Persian Gulf the Arabian Gulf probably has as much more to do with US (un?)diplomatic interests in the region, which favours any position that seems to be against Iran (except, of course, for the pro-Iranian Iraqi Shia..). Sunni Arab power structures are long-standing enemies of an independent Shiite Iran, post-Shah. See

Yes but look what those dastardly Canadians were doing even in 2000...

Canada's Contribution to the Arabian Gulf continues

http://www.dnd.ca/site/Newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=35
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:25 am

In 2004, when National Geographic Magazine decided to use "Arabian Gulf" alongside "Persian Gulf," an outcry from the Persian community ensued, eventually forcing NG to reverse its decision. Part of this outcry involved Google Bombing - if you go to Google, type "Arabian Gulf," and hit "I'm Feeling Lucky," you'll land on a page that begins "The Gulf You Are Looking For Does Not Exist. Try Persian Gulf."
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cedars747
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Anyways it should be called the American Gulf  Wink


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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:06 pm

I guess to those not involved in the situation we have no problem saying what should be done, should not be done, how importatnt it is or not, reality is that any conflict - which always starts with words -, is never done by persons not involved in the conflict. If "outsiders" ever found a way to be helpful, maybe such conflicts would never escalate to shooting wars. If Iran bans airlines from flying into their territory due to a name, that is their right, how their neighbours react to such an act is also their right, I for one wish they would do that, until that happens, no one will take the issue seriously, unfortunately, this also applies to the participants. Only after something happens - good or bad - do you hear the famous words, "You were serious about that?"
 
Revo1059
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:25 pm

Things like this are why the world is going right down the toilet.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:37 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
Aren't there more important issues in the world for all of these countries to contend with?

Iran has dellusiuons of the old Persian Empire.
 
dambuster
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:24 pm

Let's just keep it to what they called it from the beginning: The Persian Gulf, if the Arabs had a say in it, then they should've reacted a little sooner than 2000 years later... It's an absurd thing to do to change a place's name... 'nuff said.
Its their right to ban QR. After what they've done, I'd do that too.
 
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yowza
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:51 pm

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 21):
Let's just keep it to what they called it from the beginning: The Persian Gulf, if the Arabs had a say in it, then they should've reacted a little sooner than 2000 years later... It's an absurd thing to do to change a place's name... 'nuff said.
Its their right to ban QR. After what they've done, I'd do that too.

Well this has been an issue since waaaaay before 2000. As for QR adopting this naming convention they are simply following the norms in their region. They are not the only ones.

YOWza
 
Analog
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:20 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 10):

The issue is still being fought out and there is a war of words at the moment. There is Yugoslav Macedonia and Greek Macedonia and any name must reflect that fact !!! No one country has the right to soley use the name ''Macedonia'' . In the end they will both have to come to the table and agree a compromise.

No country has the right to keep a name to itself. Nothing stops Bolivia from calling itself Berlin, or calling the Pacific Ocean the Ocean of National Sorrow. Other countries might not recognize the new name, but Bolivia has the right to use any name it wants.

Historically Germany included much of what is now Poland and the Czech Republic. Should Germany have to change its name to avoid the appearance of a claim to those lands? The Greek argument that a name is tantamount to a land claim is a red herring.

Quoting Revo1059 (Reply 19):
Things like this are why the world is going right down the toilet.

I disagree. Things like this are amusements that distract one's attention from the world's real problems (genocide, famine, uncomfortable Y-class seats, global warming, you name it). Things like this are often used by governments to distract the public from more substantial internal and international issues.

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 21):
Its their right to ban QR. After what they've done, I'd do that too.

What? Should Japan stop KE from landing if it uses the words "East Sea" during flights (which it may very well do)?
 
777way
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:26 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 5):
The truth of the matter is that the term "Arabian Gulf" appears in the inflight maps only (also the inflight magazine)... Certainly its not as if QR is PROMOTING the term or something....

But the Arabs have illegally created this term when the actual name still exists, QR also list Iran as an Asian country and not part of the Middle East in their maps.
 
Curious
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:10 pm

This is just huff & puff on the part of the Speaker of parliament, soon they will all forget about it. But actually the term is the persian gulf,

The United Nations on many occasions has requested that only "Persian Gulf" be used as the official and standard geographical designation for the body of water. The United Nations Secretariat has issued two editorial directives, in 1994 and 1999, affirming the organization's position on the matter. The use of the name "Arabian Gulf" was described to be "faulty" by the eighth United Nations Conference on the Standardization of Geographical Names, held in Berlin from Aug. 5 to Sept. 2, 2002.
The addendum to the United Nations' editorial directive further states that: "The full name 'Persian Gulf' should be used in every case instead of the shorter term 'Gulf,' including in repetitions of the term after its initial use in a text."
 
Analog
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 24):
But the Arabs have illegally created this term when the actual name still exists, QR also list Iran as an Asian country and not part of the Middle East in their maps.

How is their use of "Arabian Gulf" illegal? It may be incorrect, but so what? Is Iran so sensitive that it cannot bear the use of an "incorrect" name for a body of water that it borders?

Even if QR did list Iran as part of Asia (which it is) and not the Middle East, who cares? If it bothers anyone, then they can choose not to fly QR.

It seems their online maps have a "Middle East and Africa" map that includes Iran. Their online map of "Asia & Indian Subcontinent" does not include Iran. Is Iran going to go nuts about being declared non-Asian?

Quoting Curious (Reply 25):
The United Nations on many occasions has requested that only "Persian Gulf" be used as the official and standard geographical designation for the body of water.

Are QR publications official government publications? Technically QR is not a gov't entity; it's 50% "privately" owned.
 
Curious
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:33 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 26):

indeed, just laying out that the international legal term is Persian Gulf. the Arabs can call it what they want its always been Arabian Gulf to them and they are not going to stop making that claim, but off course its just for personal preference and not reality or recognised, in the same light that I can say United States of Greater Mexico,
 
777way
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:19 pm

Quoting Analog (Reply 26):
How is their use of "Arabian Gulf" illegal? It may be incorrect, but so what?

India should start calling Arabian Sea as Indian Sea and lets see how the Arabs take it, as it is the so called Arabian sea actually only borders two Arab countries Oman and Yemen.

Quoting Analog (Reply 26):
It seems their online maps have a "Middle East and Africa" map that includes Iran.

Its been updated and that too thanks to intervention, few years ago they were not showing Iran in there.
 
Analog
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:22 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 28):

India should start calling Arabian Sea as Indian Sea and lets see how the Arabs take it,

Thats India's prerogative. One would hope that the Arabs would be grown-up enough to not escalate beyond a simple "You're using the wrong name; we'd appreciate it if you used the correct name." diplomatic message.
 
cakentennis
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:33 pm

I'm tempted to say it's a useless battle. Earlier I thought Iran had a point as I assumed it had maritime authority over the Persian/Arabian gulf. Wikipedia doesn't seem to indicate any maritime boundary.

As I remember, during the arrest of the British nationals who were supposedly in 'Iranian Waters' a few months ago, there was clearly a 'demarcation' of the body of water, as the main debate was whether the Brits were on the Iraqi side or Iranian side.

As no one seems to have claim over the entire body of water, the Iranians in my opinion, are behaving quite childishly.
 
Curious
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:15 pm

Quoting Cakentennis (Reply 30):
As no one seems to have claim over the entire body of water, the Iranians in my opinion, are behaving quite childishly.

I am surprissed the moderators havent deleted this topic as it goes way beyond avaiation. But I dont think its childish at all you dont understand the history and without it you are not in a position to fully grasp the menatility and some extent the significance of the naming which otherwise indeed would sound a useless arguement, and I am reminded of Americans renaming French Fries as Freedom frires when the french where opposing US intervention in Iraq.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:19 pm

The naming of the gulf must be contentious. A quick look on EK's website found no reference to gulf. Lots of talk about the waters and water skiing (etc.), but I viewed quite a few pages without finding the word "Gulf" on any of them.

But who would be hurt more by Iran banning QR? I think economically, it would be Iran.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 20):
Iran has dellusiuons of the old Persian Empire.

Maybe QR is just making it too clear they don't want to be part of it.  Wink

Quoting 777way (Reply 24):
QR also list Iran as an Asian country and not part of the Middle East in their maps.

This I can see really Irking Iran. That I see being something that would offend them.

Lightsaber
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prebennorholm
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:05 pm

The Baltic Sea is called "Eastern Sea" in Danish language.

In Estonian language the same water is called "Western Sea".

I guess we should ban Estonian Air flights to Denmark.  scratchchin 
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cakentennis
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting Curious (Reply 31):
I am reminded of Americans renaming French Fries as Freedom frires when the french where opposing US intervention in Iraq.

I am not denying the irrationality of that either, though, that's an entirely different discussion. If you would be aware of certain 'other' factors that would otherwise make a valid point for the Iranians, by all means, share. If you are referring to historical rivalries between Iran and Arabia, I hardly think it validates restricting airspace to Arab Airlines. If we use that logic, I think India should cut off all diplomatic ties with Iran, restrict airspace and drop any support for Iran, until they repay all theft damages caused by Nader Shah for looting Delhi and Agra.
 
Analog
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 33):
The Baltic Sea is called "Eastern Sea" in Danish language.

In German too: Ostsee. Either that, or they're confused about the Sea of Japan.
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Iran Might Ban QR For Using Arabian Gulf!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:09 am

This may affect far more than just QR flights to Tehran....

QR and EK flights to Europe and America use Iranian Airspace as an alternative to over flying Iraq.


The alternative route is one over Saudi Arabia and Syria, but if Syria follows Iran, then the route is over Israel ..which I'm sure is an option not on the political cards.

This would only leave a route via Egypt.. adding hours to the journey !!
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY