cumulus
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Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:13 pm

Bearing in mind FlyBe is one of the biggest Q400 operators, anything detrimental to the reliability of the Q400 isn't going to help them.

This article from the evening paper here in Southampton, one of FlyBe's biggest bases.



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gilesdavies
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:31 pm

The online version of this article may be more easyer to read:
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/search/di..._of_aircraft_amid_safety_fears.php

I can see why FlyBE is quick to defend the aircraft, this is the backbone of their fleet and have got to instill public confidence in the aircraft for members of the public who live near airports and people boarding these flights... If they keep quiet, passengers are not going to know what to think and will be afraid to fly them - It does not take much for a media scare to prevent people boycotting the airline!

I don't think they are blaming SAS and in my view seem to be keeping quite an open mind... They are right to explain there is a number of differences in the way both airlines operate the aircraft and conditions they operate. On the face of it, they seem to have confidence in Bombardier...
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:35 pm

No, I don't think they are trying to blame SAS and I don't think the article is either, they are both keeping an open mind. The article states that:

"FlyBe said it would wait and see if investigations into the latest incident revealed issues with SAS's maintenance procedures"

Whilst FlyBe's own statement reads:

"FlyBe awaits with interest the publication of independent reports into the SAS short haul fleet and looks forward to learning of any issues with operating procedures with the aircraft or with SAS's maintenance procedures"

That's definately not saying that it's SAS's fault - it's sitting on the fence until the verdict is out. As part of SAS's Q400 maintenance is done at EXT, along with FlyBe's own planes, it really wouldn't pay them to come out and say that it was a maintenance issue!


Dan 

[Edited 2007-10-31 12:37:38]
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cumulus
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:38 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
That's definately not saying that it's SAS's fault it's sitting on the fence until the verdict is out. As part of SAS's Q400 maintenance is done at EXT, along with FlyBe's own planes, it really wouldn't pay them to come out and say that it was a maintenance issue!

I was thinking that, but comments like the SAS fleet is "old" and operates in "extreme conditions" is a bit of a spin.....
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PlymSpotter
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:46 pm

Quoting Cumulus (Reply 3):
I was thinking that, but comments like the SAS fleet is "old" and operates in "extreme conditions" is a bit of a spin.....

Yes, definately. 6-7 years is not old and, as the main thread on the DHC8-Q400 discussed, the Oresund is not particularly salty. Spin though is spin - at the end of the day it's there to make you look better and you passengers feel safer!


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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:32 pm

FlyBe has a load of Embraer 145s it inherited from BA COnnect it wants to offload. SAS wants to offload its Q400s. What about a fleet swop?
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
Danny
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:58 pm

I am not surprised that Flybe is careful at what they are saying. Grounding of Q400 would effectively shut them down.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 4):
Yes, definately. 6-7 years is not old

you must note that the Q400 and other turbo props age at a far different rate than most commercial aircraft. They might rack up in one year the cycles that a long haul jet takes 10 years to accumulate. So in many respects a 10 year old Q400 has been kicked around alot more than a 30 year old 747.
 
multimark
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:57 pm

There's no story here, Flybe has not had problems with their Q400's.

I am a bit surprised they're having those air contamination problems with the 146. That's been a known problem with the BAE for years.
 
sandyb123
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:14 pm

I don't think that Q400 gear problems on 146 air quality issues are Flybe's biggest problem. I flew with them recently... never again! Very expensive for a 'budget ariline' and service was very poor. Return flight CDG-EDI had no catering (not even water) on 2 hour flight because the catering had to be offloaded because of 'weight issues' - nice.

Sandy B
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prebennorholm
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:01 am

Flybe is at least bending the truth when when then write: "The thing is that there are Q400 operators across the world and until we hear more from the investigation this is a problem confined to Scandinavia."

The corroded internal treads, which made the eyebolt and actuator separate, causing the two SAS accidents in September, was subsequently found in various stages of development "across the world" on not brand new Q400s. They should thank SAS for having removed that time bomb on the Flybe fleet.

If they call 5-6-7 years planes "old", then it will be interesting to notice when they will retire their own fleet in case they don't want to tell their customers that they fly old planes.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 7):
...in many respects a 10 year old Q400 has been kicked around alot more than a 30 year old 747.

Right, but that's accounted for when designing short haul planes - including the 747SR. 19 years old ATR-42 in this country are considered modern planes. 25 years old Icelandic F-50 and 30 years old Dash 7 in Greenland are not considered new, rather middle age with no plans for retirement. And hey, their airports are generally exposed to much more ocean salt than Danish airports, and certainly much more than CPH.

Maybe planes - like ham - last longer when constantly kept in the fridge?  Wow!

Also the greater part of those 5-6-7 years old SAS Q400 replaced 30 years old "domestic" single class configured DC-9s flying the same short haul routes. And what happened to those DC-9s? Some were sold to NW who equipped them with hush kits and fly them today, and retire them when?

Quoting Sandyb123 (Reply 9):
I don't think that Q400 gear problems on 146 air quality issues are Flybe's biggest problem. I flew with them recently... never again! Very expensive for a 'budget ariline' and service was very poor.

Anyway I think that Flybe has a bright future, mainly because of their Southampton hub. Several of my colleagues living in southern England have switched from BA to Flybe for their travel to Europe, not because they hate BA, not because they love Flybe, but only because they are willing to accept almost any inconvenience if they can avoid setting foot on LHR turf. A pleasant little car drive plus Flybe at Southampton make that possible.
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cumulus
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 5):
FlyBe has a load of Embraer 145s it inherited from BA COnnect it wants to offload. SAS wants to offload its Q400s

I thought BA kept its 145s from BA Connect?
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shamrock604
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:32 pm

[quote=Multimark,reply=8]Flybe has not had problems with their Q400's.[/quote

Flybe has plenty of problems with the Dash 8.. just thankfully not quite as high profile as SAS's. They are however, pleased with the a/c from an economic standpoint.
 
noelg
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:32 pm

I think FlyBE know they have to be careful. If the issue is indeed with the salty atmosphere eroding the landing gear mechanism, it could also affect FlyBE.

Bearing in mind they have bases at many places close to the sea, such as Jersey, Guernsey, Exeter, Southampton, Belfast City etc.
 
Baron52ta
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:37 pm

Quoting Cumulus (Reply 11):
I thought BA kept its 145s from BA Connect?

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1284605 is just an eg of their aquisition, note it has the BA blue underside still
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:45 pm

SAS has encountered many problems because they had very early models of the production. Not the case for BE.

No one will concede that position and certainly not BOMBARDIER and GOODRICH.

Taking the early models of a very new airplane always implies some kind of risks (industrial or safety matters).

Just my POV.


FB.
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cumulus
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:49 pm

Quoting Multimark (Reply 8):
here's no story here, Flybe has not had problems with their Q400's.

Granted, but if there is a proven fault with Q400 it will cause them problems.......
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
 
RoyalAirMaroc
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:04 pm

Didnt GF encounter problems with salt water on their A320's ?
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JER757
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:05 pm

Quote:
bosses have been investing heavily in the aircraft, spending around £400,000 on a new order earlier this year

God those Q400's are selling cheap nowadays... I'll take 2!!  duck 
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traineepilot
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:15 pm

Overall the Q400 does have a relatively good safety rating. I am always amazed at how stable they look in strong crosswind compared to a B737 or B757. They always make a smooth landing.
 
iceberg210
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:20 pm

In my opinion there definitely is some problem with the Dash 8's landing gear at least in those models (didn't extend is a problem) and they have found the same problem with other carriers' aircraft so it isn't just confined to SAS. However only at SAS are they having trouble landing with both landing gear extended. I would then suggest that possibly the reason is that the tolerances in maintenance is less at SAS. Now I'm not going to say they are unsafe by any standpoint however there is something to be said about even after the attention these incidents got that we see another one of these. I would think they would be scrounging those landing gears and if they saw even a speck of rust, discoloration or even a speck of dust they'd be replacing the heck out of them because parts are cheaper than planes.

Anyway although I've never flown one I like the Dash 8 Q400 a lot for its economics, looks, and heritage so I wish the best for it and hope for the safety of all airline passengers that these events do not happen again.

Erik Berg
Erik Berg (Foster's is over but never forgotten)
 
extspotter
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting Cumulus (Reply 11):
I thought BA kept its 145s from BA Connect?

Someone hasn't been to MAN lately. It crawls with them.

These problems will be solved eventually, it happens all the time to aircraft.

For the Q400, its landing gear, for the 737 it was rudder reversal, for the 146 it is air system problems. I could go on...
AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
 
cumulus
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting Baron52ta (Reply 14):
is just an eg of their aquisition, note it has the BA blue underside still

Where does FlyBe operate the 145 from/to?
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
 
David_itl
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:37 am

Quoting Cumulus (Reply 22):
Where does FlyBe operate the 145 from/to?

Nearly all the ex-BACon routes!
 
cumulus
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:36 pm

Quoting David_itl (Reply 23):

Nearly all the ex-BACon routes!

Which is?!!!!!! Not ex Sou!!
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
 
teneriffe77
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RE: Is FlyBe Trying To Blame SAS For Q400 Incidents?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:21 am

I was at BHX a few months ago and saw some E-145's in FLYBE colors and I thought they looked pretty good.

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