LAXintl
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United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:55 am

Long hinted at... commences March 30, 2008

UA948 DEN-LHR 1855-1050+1 B777
UA939 LHR-DEN 1305-1614 B777
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ikramerica
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:56 am

But couldn't they have done this all along? Denver is an LHR city and UAL is an LHR carrier under B2.
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LAXintl
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:58 am

Nope, would have been to LGW, along with forcing BA to shift its DEN flight to LGW.

With open skies no longer restricted.
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commavia
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
But couldn't they have done this all along? Denver is an LHR city and UAL is an LHR carrier under B2.

No, it couldn't. DEN was not a "LHR city." It was what I guess you would call - in the context of B2 - a "conditional LHR city." It could only be served from LGW by a U.S. carrier, but could be served from LHR by a British carrier. And, the U.S. carrier could only move their flight from LGW to LHR if the traffic on the route reached a certain level, which the market never did, as it was only a single daily flight.
 
daron4000
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:17 am

Awesome...will this be announced publically soon? And where does the plane come from? Will this effect other LHR routes?
 
dia77
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:18 am

I'm happy for this long awaited news, but a DEN-NRT flight would have gotten me a lot more excited. I wonder how BA and UA will be able to coexist in this market. BA has had pretty average loads on DEN-LHR (not bad but not great either).
 
BA
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:28 am

As a Denver resident, this makes me very happy! The more options the better, especially since I'm a Mileage Plus member.

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 5):
BA has had pretty average loads on DEN-LHR (not bad but not great either).

I'm assuming LHR's growing negative reputation and LH's growth in DEN (FRA and MUC service) may be affecting BA's service.

In the past, BA's DEN flights were always extremely full.

I do hope the two LHR flights can coexist.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
dia77
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting BA (Reply 6):
I'm assuming LHR's growing negative reputation and LH's growth in DEN (FRA and MUC service) may be affecting BA's service.

I think you're right BA. I just checked the loads in March and April of 2007 on DEN-LHR and they are both around the 82% mark (which is pretty good). I'm not sure what the breakdown is though between passengers up front and in the back....
 
BA
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 7):
I just checked the loads in March and April of 2007 on DEN-LHR and they are both around the 82% mark (which is pretty good).

82% is pretty darn good, especially for that far out.

I also just remembered that next March, Terminal 5 in LHR will be completed which will be for BA only. The state-of-the-art facility should make transiting through LHR on BA more appealing than it is currently so this should help make BA more competitive.

I guess only time will tell...
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
DIA
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting BA (Reply 6):
In the past, BA's DEN flights were always extremely full.

I remember when this route was operated with 744 equip. Since then, LH came in with the A342, then the A343, and now a mixed bag of 744s and A346s for the FRA route and an A343 for the MUC route. And BA was left with a 777 on the LHR route. Times change quick. I would expect UA to put a 777 on the new route to LHR.
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fxramper
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:58 am

DL goes to CDG from SLC, and now UA goes to LHR from DEN.

This wasn't a huge surprise...

Congrats UA.
 
platinumfoota
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:31 am

With United expanding to more international routes, where is United finding the planes for these routes? It just amazes me they are expanding without new aircrafts.
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laca773
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:04 am

Quoting Platinumfoota (Reply 11):
With United expanding to more international routes, where is United finding the planes for these routes? It just amazes me they are expanding without new aircrafts.

I was just thinking the same thing. Do they have any 772s in storage? Are they going to convert any of their domesticl 772s to international. I know range can be an issue but wouldn't these a/c do well from IAD and a few shorter TA's from ORD?

LACA773
 
LAXintl
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 4):
will this be announced publically soon

Yes

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 4):
And where does the plane come from?

Last I checked Boeing  Silly

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 4):
Will this effect other LHR routes?

No.

Sum08 schedule calls for IAD x4, ORD x3, SFO 2x and LAX 1x from LHR in addition to the new DEN service.

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 5):
I wonder how BA and UA will be able to coexist in this market

I'm sure UA will do quite well being able to offer connectivity across the Mountain West plus some UK and European connectivity with BMI and other Star partners. BA on the other hand is primarily stuck with only European end feed but suspect they should be able to hang in there just fine still.

Quoting Platinumfoota (Reply 11):
where is United finding the planes for these routes? It just amazes me they are expanding without new aircrafts.

Just shows there is still some slack in the schedules. Also remember 3 class widebodies still operate domestic legs segments which can be further pruned to create additional international lift opportunities. Very much the way DL added 767 flying by refocusing them towards international ops away from dozen ATL-Florida hops.
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ikramerica
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
It could only be served from LGW by a U.S. carrier, but could be served from LHR by a British carrier. And, the U.S. carrier could only move their flight from LGW to LHR if the traffic on the route reached a certain level, which the market never did, as it was only a single daily flight.

Well that's convoluted...  Wink

Good riddance B2!
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AirTranTUS
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:14 am

The timing of this flight is much better suited for a routing from TUS than UA's other LHR flights. Only problem is, a one-stop routing through DEN is $300 more expensive than a one-stop through SFO or LAX, both of which have outrageous connection times (too long), and that still costs more than what other carriers are charging for TUS-LON.
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UAL777UK
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:07 am

Great news, I have been waiting for it. i had heard that it was going to start in June, but the earlier the better so far asi am concerned. This will prove to be a very succesful route for UA IMHO.
 
Algoz
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:13 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Long hinted at... commences March 30, 2008

UA948 DEN-LHR 1855-1050+1 B777
UA939 LHR-DEN 1305-1614 B777

If you are a United employee, then you will know that this was supposed to be company confidential until Thursday. I'm sure there are many UA employees who would have liked to have spilled the beans on this one, but respected the request for confidentiality.....
If you're not, then you obviously know someone at UA who likewise didn't play ball.
 
commavia
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:14 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
Well that's convoluted... Wink

Good riddance B2!

Well you can say that again.

I think most of us (sans Willie Walsh) will be quite happy to see all of that "convoluted" (that's a very diplomatic way of putting it) bullsh*t be gone forever.
 
MAH4546
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:27 am

Quoting Algoz (Reply 17):
If you are a United employee, then you will know that this was supposed to be company confidential until Thursday. I'm sure there are many UA employees who would have liked to have spilled the beans on this one, but respected the request for confidentiality.....
If you're not, then you obviously know someone at UA who likewise didn't play ball.

Considering the information is publicly available on public booking systems, it doesn't really matter. It's been in booking systems, available to all to see, for the past few hours.

[Edited 2007-11-01 02:28:24]
a.
 
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United787
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:24 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
I'm sure UA will do quite well being able to offer connectivity across the Mountain West plus some UK and European connectivity with BMI and other Star partners. BA on the other hand is primarily stuck with only European end feed but suspect they should be able to hang in there just fine still.

My thoughts exactly. I think UA will do fine on this route! Congrats to UA. I can't wait to see a DEN-NRT route, I think that is next although probably better served by a 787  Wink
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:49 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
Considering the information is publicly available on public booking systems, it doesn't really matter. It's been in booking systems, available to all to see, for the past few hours.

Which is a little surprising to me, don't airlines typically announce before loading into GDS'es? (Because of people like ourselves!)
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sparkingwave
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:12 pm

Well, DEN - LHR is some consolation for the fact that UA gave up JFK - LHR.

How many U.S. nonstops to LHR does UA have now?

I seem to remember LAX - LHR, SFO - LHR, ORD - LHR, and IAD - LHR. Are there any others I've forgotten?
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UAL777UK
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:15 pm

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 22):
I seem to remember LAX - LHR, SFO - LHR, ORD - LHR, and IAD - LHR. Are there any others I've forgotten?

Thats the lot, with the inclusion of DEN, UA will serve all its hubs in the US from LHR from March 2008.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:16 pm

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 22):
Well, DEN - LHR is some consolation for the fact that UA gave up JFK - LHR.

Not really, DEN-LHR will far outperform JFK-LHR. UA/*A can provide feed on both ends, not to mention DEN and LHR are very large O&D markets on their own.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
JoFMO
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:16 pm

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 22):
Are there any others I've forgotten?

No
 
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RayChuang
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:45 pm

I believe that UA could start DEN-LHR because DEN now has that 16,000 foot runway, which makes it possible for a fully-loaded 747-400 or 777-200ER to takeoff at full pax/cargo load year-round safely.
 
LAXintl
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:17 pm

Quoting Algoz (Reply 17):

As MAH4546 along with AirTranTUS mention flights were already loaded and bookable in public GDS systems. (including United.com)

In addition other websites such as Flyertalk had the news even prior to the A.net post.

[Edited 2007-11-01 08:27:57]
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bartond
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:48 pm

Great news for DEN. I hope that it doesn't greatly reduce the BA flight but for some reason I don't think it will. As stated before, DEN will provide UA flyers all across the western US the ability to connect through DEN instead of SFO or LAX, which would be backtracking for people in a number of cities/communities.

It looks like UA might have to retrofit some of their domestic 772s to make this one work. They seem to have quite a few.
 
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United787
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:50 pm

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 22):
How many U.S. nonstops to LHR does UA have now?

Your question was previously answered  Wink

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Sum08 schedule calls for IAD x4, ORD x3, SFO 2x and LAX 1x from LHR in addition to the new DEN service.
 
LH506
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:13 pm

Quoting Bartond (Reply 28):
It looks like UA might have to retrofit some of their domestic 772s to make this one work. They seem to have quite a few.

How many domestic 777 & 763 does UA have?
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UAL777UK
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:21 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 26):
I believe that UA could start DEN-LHR because DEN now has that 16,000 foot runway, which makes it possible for a fully-loaded 747-400

Would love to see another 747 from UA in LHR, alas a shortage of metal might prove that will not be the case.

I am surprised we have not seen an official announcement yet from UA!?
 
manny
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:26 pm

Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
BA
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:58 pm

DEN-NRT is I think more likely on ANA once they receive their 787s rather than UA. In a recent article in the Denver Post, it was reported that UA is not interested at operating DEN-NRT.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
unitednrt
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:08 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 30):

How many domestic 777 & 763 does UA have?

B777-200 XA - 6
B767-300 MD - 14

Quoting BA (Reply 33):

United is very interested in operating Denver-Tokyo Narita but the aircraft available aren't suitable to the operating conditions of the route. B747-400 equipment would be necessary to operate the stages.
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LAXintl
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:39 pm

For those waiting on the press release

Quote:
United Airlines Strengthens its International Network, Announces New Denver-London Service

United's Denver hub becomes a European gateway, customers now have nonstop service to London from all five United hubs

CHICAGO, Nov. 1 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- To further strengthen its international route network and provide customers with new service to Europe, United Airlines will launch nonstop passenger and cargo service between Denver and London Heathrow on March 30, 2008. With this new service, United's Denver hub will now serve as a gateway to Europe and customers can now fly nonstop to London Heathrow from any of United's five hubs located across the U.S.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071101/aqth156.html?.v=14
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N1120A
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:58 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
It could only be served from LGW by a U.S. carrier, but could be served from LHR by a British carrier. And, the U.S. carrier could only move their flight from LGW to LHR if the traffic on the route reached a certain level, which the market never did, as it was only a single daily flight.

Actually, that isn't how it worked. DEN was not an LHR gateway from either side. The reason BA was able to move their flight from Gatwick to Heathrow is because they met the threshold traffic requirements to do so. If United, however, had decided to open service on Denver-London, they would have had to go to Gatwick because the traffic exemption only applied to the British side. Further, if United had opened to Gatwick, then BA would have had to shift back to Gatwick.
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jfk777
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:50 pm

Finally a US airline flies from Denver ti London for the first time since Continental did it back in the day from Stapelton Airport. A CO flight from DEN to LGW by DC-10-30 was the last scheduled flight to leave the old Stapelton airport when it closed.
 
F9Widebody
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:57 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 26):
I believe that UA could start DEN-LHR because DEN now has that 16,000 foot runway, which makes it possible for a fully-loaded 747-400 or 777-200ER to takeoff at full pax/cargo load year-round safely.

Not relevant. Ba has been doing the flight for 10 years with a fully loaded 777, well before 16R/34L was constructed.
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stylo777
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:01 pm

there are also rumours going around here in FRA... they talk about a come-back of United's DEN-FRA flight which was doing good until it has been stopped because of 9/11...
 
N1120A
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:05 pm

Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 38):

Not relevant. Ba has been doing the flight for 10 years with a fully loaded 777, well before 16R/34L was constructed.

Well, BA's 777s can carry 8,000 pounds more weight that United's. The main reason, however, for 16R/34L was so that United's 772ERs could make DEN-NRT reliably.

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 39):
they talk about a come-back of United's DEN-FRA flight which was doing good until it has been stopped because of 9/11...

It wasn't doing all that well. Apparently, it was the non-rev lifesaver in the summer.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MAH4546
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:32 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 39):
there are also rumours going around here in FRA... they talk about a come-back of United's DEN-FRA flight which was doing good until it has been stopped because of 9/11...

Not only did it not do well, but it was not discontinued as a result of 9/11.
a.
 
LH423
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:34 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 26):
I believe that UA could start DEN-LHR because DEN now has that 16,000 foot runway, which makes it possible for a fully-loaded 747-400 or 777-200ER to takeoff at full pax/cargo load year-round safely.

Not entirely. That helps, but the main reason is that UA wouldn't have to open LGW for a single flight to DEN.

LH423
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LH506
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:53 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
B777-200 XA - 6
B767-300 MD - 14

Thanks.
What is the range? Can they be converted for longhaul?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:22 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
No, it couldn't. DEN was not a "LHR city." It was what I guess you would call - in the context of B2 - a "conditional LHR city." It could only be served from LGW by a U.S. carrier, but could be served from LHR by a British carrier. And, the U.S. carrier could only move their flight from LGW to LHR if the traffic on the route reached a certain level, which the market never did, as it was only a single daily flight.

Not quite

Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
Actually, that isn't how it worked. DEN was not an LHR gateway from either side. The reason BA was able to move their flight from Gatwick to Heathrow is because they met the threshold traffic requirements to do so. If United, however, had decided to open service on Denver-London, they would have had to go to Gatwick because the traffic exemption only applied to the British side. Further, if United had opened to Gatwick, then BA would have had to shift back to Gatwick.

 checkmark 

Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 38):
Not relevant. Ba has been doing the flight for 10 years with a fully loaded 777, well before 16R/34L was constructed.

Quoting N1120A,reply=40:
Well, BA's 777s can carry 8,000 pounds more weight that United's. The main reason, however, for 16R/34L was so that United's 772ERs could make DEN-NRT reliably.


 checkmark  again.
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lesismore
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:46 pm

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 22):
Well, DEN - LHR is some consolation for the fact that UA gave up JFK - LHR.

I don't think its any consoloation for those loyal UA customers in the Tri-State area. Its sad that UA has given up so much at JFK. It doesn't seem that JFK is in UA's long-term plans.

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 24):
Not really, DEN-LHR will far outperform JFK-LHR. UA/*A can provide feed on both ends, not to mention DEN and LHR are very large O&D markets on their own.

Agreed. I often wondered why DEN doesn't serve more international markets.
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basrabob
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:52 pm

UA sorted , DL sorted & AA all sorted for the Sum 08 season ....why is it taking CO & NW so long to announce their S08 LON schedules . You would have thought they would have been sprinting out of the blocks to announce them , bearing in mind that the IATA conference is just round the corner.....btw , does anybody have exact dates for this , because as I understand it , all announcements have to be in by then . It just seems really odd that NW & CO haven't announced anything , perhaps KLM are proving hard to coax the slots out of ? As presumably it is them that will have to move the slots over to NW & CO?

Any further LHR news would be gratefully received .

Many thx
 
Super80DFW
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:09 pm

I'm glad to see UA has finally seen what they have let BA have for years when they should have been the first one's with LON service.
"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:16 pm

Quoting Lesismore (Reply 45):
I often wondered why DEN doesn't serve more international markets.

Mostly location.

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 47):
I'm glad to see UA has finally seen what they have let BA have for years when they should have been the first one's with LON service.

...in the event you haven't paid attention to the very clear explanation given several times in this thread and others-- it's because they couldn't fly to LHR as bilateral allotments stood, and they obviously felt that the costs of opening/offering LGW, for the sake of 1 airport, were not worth it.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
BA
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RE: United To Launch DEN-LHR Nonstop

Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:52 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 40):
It wasn't doing all that well. Apparently, it was the non-rev lifesaver in the summer.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 41):
Not only did it not do well, but it was not discontinued as a result of 9/11.

It was a summer seasonal service only and never returned the following summer. Perhaps 9/11 did have something to do with it not returning, but you're both right, it wasn't a good performer to begin with. It mostly filled up with non-rev passengers as well as overbooked passengers from the LH flight. It sort of acted as a reliever for LH's flight.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran