CarsAir04
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:09 am

http://www.gazette.com/articles/fron...__article.html/hangar_springs.html

I like Mike Boyds comment. Sean Menke would not go all the way to Colorado Springs to tell them they were not getting the hanger.
 
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mariner
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:57 am

If its true - and I agree with Mike Boyd - it might have been different if Denver did not have that city tax on new aviation equipment, which includes new aircraft.

Good for the Springs.

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CarsAir04
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:07 am

It can sometimes be hard to tell if a story like this is true, anonymous sources, but as you say, good for the springs if true. We shall see tomorrow. I did read another article in the Denver Post stating the same thing.

One question. The one article mentions possible service at some point. How much traffic could really be expect from a place like Colorado Springs? Especially if it is connecting in Denver? Have there ever been any other airlines who have had a flight from COS to DEN?

[Edited 2007-11-01 19:16:13]
 
N200WN
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:17 am

Great news for the Springs. I lived there for ten years and love to hear any good news about COS. Hopefully they will someday see some mainline F9 flights to a few key cities...LAS for instance.
 
Alias1024
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:21 am

Mods, any way to fix the topic so it is spelled correctly?

Hanger: Clothes storage
Hangar: Airplane storage
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
quickmover
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 3):
Hopefully they will someday see some mainline F9 flights to a few key cities

Surely they will have mainline flights. If nothing more than ferrying aircraft from DEN to maintainance and back, they might as well carry passengers.
 
rw717
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting CarsAir04 (Reply 2):
Have there ever been any other airlines who have had a flight from COS to DEN?

United, and a few other airlines, flew it for years with mainline equipment. I'm sure it was mostly connecting traffic.
Reno Air - The Biggest Little Airline in the World
 
N200WN
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting CarsAir04 (Reply 2):
Have there ever been any other airlines who have had a flight from COS to DEN?

Several airlines have operated COS-DEN at one time or another:

UA - Mainline for many years and with DC-10's for a short while back in '95 to compete with W7.
CO
FL - The original Frontier
TW
BN
HP
Aspen
Rocky Mountain Airways
Trans Colorado
Mesa
American Central
GP Express
Central - The original Ft. Worth based airline that was bought out by FL

Also, TW and HP operated COS-PUB as either tag-ons (STL-COS-PUB) or round robin flights (LAS-COS-PUB-LAS) in the 1980's and CO operated the route in the pre-jet era.

I have a fair amount of info on previous routes from COS if anyone is interested.
 
Spacepope
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:34 am

Channel 13 is already reporting it as a "done deal" tonight

http://www.krdo.com/Global/story.asp?S=7299484
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AirframeAS
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:25 am

CRAP! I was hoping F9 would build a hangar at DEN.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 1):
it might have been different if Denver did not have that city tax on new aviation equipment, which includes new aircraft.

This, I can understand, but on new aircraft?! How does that work? So if Airbus delivers the new 320 for F9, how does that get taxed if F9 accepts delivery at TLS or in Maine?
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
ytib
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
This, I can understand, but on new aircraft?! How does that work? So if Airbus delivers the new 320 for F9, how does that get taxed if F9 accepts delivery at TLS or in Maine?

The first flight into Denver needs to be a revenue flight which is why they stop at MCI on the way here. Early on they would use PHX since their was a mx operation there but once MCI opened they switched to there leading to the EDHI-CYQX-KMCI-KDEN flights versus EDHI-KBGR-KPHX-KDEN. As they do not have any more aircraft on order which would be delivered from Hamburg the route will change in February.

The Lynx aircraft are also stopping in Kansas City, but more so as a halfway point from Toronto on the way to Broomfield.

There are taxes on business property for companies operating in the City and County of Denver. Thus they will be paying a tax on the aircraft most likely, but not the special taxes on new deliveries.

If you want some fun reading here is a Denver tax guide, http://www.denvergov.org/Treasury/TaxGuide/tabid/424582/Default.aspx.
I would look at the links for Aircraft, Fuel, Property, and probably some others I am missing.
 
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:07 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 3):
Hopefully they will someday see some mainline F9 flights to a few key cities...LAS for instance.

I'm not sure there will be any - or many - flights in the short term, but that may change.

I don't know much about traffic patterns at COS. I did a check and most routes appear to be RJ's, except for Allegiant to LAS.

And American - who have several flights a day on MD80's to DFW. They seem to do well and I was surprised there was so much demand for COS-DFW, compared with, say, COS-LAX.

Am I missing something?

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uadc8contrail
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 11):

current mainline at cos is AA to DFW, DL to ATL,NW to msp and G4 to LA$, everything else is crj or erj....AA pulls alot of pax that are going any where east plus into deep texas...the reason there are only 3 a day to LAX is ual wants to route thru den as much as possibble as the majority of the cos-lax pax are local only....the connects i see are cheaper thru den /lax to the west coast than a 1 stop thru lax....also have heard that there will be a cos-smx flt in the not to distant future...and it might not be skywest!
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting Ytib (Reply 10):

That sucks! Is DEN the only city/county in the U.S. that actually does this practice? I recall that McDD had to do delivery flights out of state to YUM or PHX to avoid having to pay sales tax in California or something like that back in the days when McDD were around.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 12):
current mainline at cos is AA to DFW, DL to ATL,NW to msp and G4 to LA$, everything else is crj or erj.

Thanks for all that. If Frontier is to have some relationship with COS, no mtter how big or how small, my learning curve about COS has started.

mariner
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denverdanny
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:24 am

Unfortunate for Denver, but not a big deal. They also lost the contest for the massive United maintenance facility a while back. Wasn't Denver a finalist for the Boeing HQ too? I guess it wasn't worth it to the city to come up with stellar offers in either case to land/keep jobs. Maybe a change from past decades when local leaders here in Denver/Boulder saw the importance of bringing jobs to the area.
 
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:30 am

Quoting DenverDanny (Reply 15):
Unfortunate for Denver, but not a big deal.

Not a big deal, perhaps, but the Denver Post thinks it is of some consequence:

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_7342428

"It's a significant loss for Denver in jobs and economic impact — and one that officials as high as Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper had been trying to prevent."

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AirframeAS
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 16):
http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_7342428

"It's a significant loss for Denver in jobs and economic impact — and one that officials as high as Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper had been trying to prevent."

If the City of DEN was trying to prevent that, they would have given F9 some concessions. Unfortuantely, they didn't. They didn't try hard enough to prevent it. They just didn't care, IMO.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:54 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 17):
They didn't try hard enough to prevent it. They just didn't care, IMO.

To be fair, they did try:

"In negotiations with DIA, Frontier had pushed for relief of the aircraft-parts sales and use tax, and Denver had offered incentives but was restricted in what it could offer."

But they couldn't trump COS's ace:

"Colorado Springs was apparently able to upset Denver with an attractive incentive package it submitted to Frontier during a request for proposals process earlier this year."

This is assuming hat the hangar is going to be at COS, of course. Frontier hasn't confirmed it yet.  Smile

mariner
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rampart
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting CarsAir04 (Reply 2):
One question. The one article mentions possible service at some point. How much traffic could really be expect from a place like Colorado Springs? Especially if it is connecting in Denver? Have there ever been any other airlines who have had a flight from COS to DEN?

Very interesting indeed. There had been some speculating earlier on whether COS could garner some p2p F9 service. COS and DEN have shared and do share a number of airlines to identical destinations. A bit of a commute for most, but parts of the Denver metro area can see COS as a Denver alternate. WP had considerable success on that when they existed. COS has reasonable unmet demand in some areas, which is why ExpressJet started service recently.

Using the B6 model, it is possible to serve one of your hub cities with more than one airport.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 11):
And American - who have several flights a day on MD80's to DFW. They seem to do well and I was surprised there was so much demand for COS-DFW, compared with, say, COS-LAX.

Am I missing something?

Colorado was, and is still considered by some, to be a part of the Republic of Texas. Ruffles some of the natives.  
According to my "Largest US Cities Named After Food" (an excellent book, the title referes to just one section in one of the 11 chapters), Colorado Springs ranks second (16%) in the US for percent Southern-borne for a city outside of the South. (Detroit was 1st, Denver didn't make the top 12). That, and there is considerable military linkage between Colorado Springs and Texas. COS to Kileen, TX (Army Fort Hood) alone averages 13 passengers/day.

Prior to AA, Braniff used to serve COS-DFW with 2-4 flights a day, a couple of those with stops in OKC. Around the same time (70s) CO used to fly COS-MAF (or it might have been vice versa); original Frontier had a milk run to Dallas, I think, via AMA.

-Rampart

[Edited 2007-11-02 00:21:07]
 
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:20 am

Quoting Rampart (Reply 19):
Colorado was, and is still considered by some, to be a part of the Republic of Texas. Ruffles some of the natives.  

Thanks for all that. Keep it coming - I'll take as much info about COS as anyone cares to throw my way.  Smile

For those interested, here's a slightly longer and a little bit deeper analysis of the (presumed) move, also from the Denver Post:

http://www.denverpost.com/extremes/ci_7345273

It contains the following:

"Also expected are new Colorado Springs flights to tie in with the hangar deal. Frontier doesn't currently fly to Colorado Springs."

We'll see.

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AirframeAS
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
This is assuming hat the hangar is going to be at COS, of course. Frontier hasn't confirmed it yet.  Smile

If this is the case, DEN better get to work if they want to have F9's hangar on DEN's property. Sometimes DEN has to lost some things to make things work for them. Hopefully F9 and DEN will come to a much agreeable terms. They may not. This is DEN's to lose, not F9, IMO.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
rampart
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 20):
"Also expected are new Colorado Springs flights to tie in with the hangar deal. Frontier doesn't currently fly to Colorado Springs."

We'll see.

Just speculating here, but in terms of unmet demand, COS to Florida or the Northeast (Washington or NYC) would be most obvious. Stimulate the market and some closer destinations might support traffic, like STL, SAT, SEA.

If this does indeed take place -- the flights in addition to the maintenance -- it would be ironic on a couple counts. COS tried for years to attract WN, only to have them end up in DEN. F9 and WP considered a merger in their early days when WP decided to migrate from COS to DEN. If F9 returns to COS, they might take advantage of a market WP put aside, and realize a portion of the market that WP had.

-Rampart
 
SANFan
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 12):
also have heard that there will be a cos-smx flt in the not to distant future...and it might not be skywest!

You're referring to something besides the current 2x daily XE flights? (ExpressJet also connects COS with SAN and ONT at the present time.)

It does seem very reasonable to envision F9 turning COS into a kind of co-terminal with DEN since up and down I-25, the two cities are rather quickly becoming joined. I would also be expecting the COS airport folks to d.a.p. to "encourage" Frontier to start mainline service on a big scale. This will be very interesting to follow...

bb
 
ytib
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:28 pm

Official at this time.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071102/laf053.html?.v=82


Also included is the start of service to DEN with mainline aircraft. If anything else will start I am sure they will keep it closed lip for now.

"While we anxiously await the start, and ultimately completion of this new state-of-the-art maintenance facility, we are happy to add that we will be able to easily transport our new friends in Colorado Springs to and from our hub in Denver. While we are still analyzing the appropriate aircraft and frequencies for this service, we are committed to linking Colorado Springs to our DIA hub by late spring of 2008, offering Colorado Springs a one-stop connection to over 60 cities in the U.S., Canada, and Central America via Frontier's mainline Airbus service."
 
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:37 pm

Quoting Ytib (Reply 24):
Official at this time.

Crap! So the real winner is COS & F9. The real LOSER is DEN and the City of DEN. Had DEN given much more attractive offer, F9 would have built their hangar at DEN.

I had high hopes that the hangar would be at DEN all along, now I'm disappointed. Sad
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uadc8contrail
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:18 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
Crap! So the real winner is COS & F9. The real LOSER is DEN and the City of DEN. Had DEN given much more attractive offer, F9 would have built their hangar at DEN.

I had high hopes that the hangar would be at DEN all along, now I'm disappointed.

Airframe,
when den has a 36% tax on aircraft parts that are stored at dia, no one in their right mind would build anything big there unless his honor did away with the tax. zw used to have a off airport warehouse and when they needed a part they would have a courier bring the parts to the airport, thus avoiding the tax. skywest comats a lot of a/c parts out of cos to den everyday for that same reason.
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
rampart
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:08 pm

Quoting Ytib (Reply 24):
Also included is the start of service to DEN with mainline aircraft. If anything else will start I am sure they will keep it closed lip for now.

Despite my wishful thinking earlier, this makes sense for now. Customers using F9 from COS will weigh the convenience of a smaller streamlined airport and then waiting for a transfer flight rather than driving up to DEN directly. But, the fares will need to be competitive, if not equal to what's offered from DEN, service needs to be better than UA, who offer the same opportunity (20 minute flight up to change planes), and possibly some through-plane service to untapped destination. All that would work in F9's favor.

Just for laughs, take a look at the old OAGs and count how many flights, mainline and commuter, used to exist between COS and DEN.
24/day in 1979, on FL (Frontier), CO, BN, JC (Rocky Mountain), 9 of those were 737s or larger.
28/day in 1983, on FL, CO, AP (Aspen), & JB (Pioneer), 9 of those on 737s or larger
21/day in 1989, on CO/COEx, UA/UAEx, TW, and YV, again 9 on 737s or larger
I presume all of these were for transfer passengers! Except perhaps some through stops from flights originating in ABQ or PUB. Back then, nonstop links to COS were rare, compared to today when the most of the major hubs are connected.

Currently, it's just UA/UAEx with 10-12 flights a day, and I doubt they would offer them unless they had reasonable load factors for connections.

-Rampart
 
SeeTheWorld
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 11):
And American - who have several flights a day on MD80's to DFW. They seem to do well and I was surprised there was so much demand for COS-DFW, compared with, say, COS-LAX.

Actually, I grew up just north of Colorado Springs, and my father was a United pilot. The interesting thing about COS is that there have always been many more flights to the east, primarily because most of the flights are connecting flights. LAX, for example, is much more of a local market for COS and has only recently been successful, the last ten years or so.

For many years, before United starting flying multiple DEN flights to connect their network, Frontier and Braniff were the biggies down there. I flew a DEN-COS-DFW-MEX on Braniff back in the late 1970s. And I have flown eveything from an old Convair on Aspen Airways and Frontier to other props to a UA DC10 and 757 between DEN and COS.

The carrier that really broke into the westbound traffic for COS was America West routing everything through PHX. Finally, DL came in to SLC and UA began the SFO and LAX flights - other than Western Pacific, which attempted the hub for serveral years.

The interesting thing about COS is that many people are conditioned to fly through DEN, and don't mind it because the airport is small and easy to get in and out of, and Monument Hill sits between DEN and COS. In the winter, Monument Hill can be a blizzard even when the weather in Denver and Colorado Springs isn't too bad.
 
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 12):
also have heard that there will be a cos-smx flt

SMX? SMX is Santa Maria. Although SMX is the closest airport to Vandenberg AFB I will be pleasantly surprised if someone thinks there is enough military related traffic to link the 2 areas.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:17 pm

Quoting Ytib (Reply 24):
Also included is the start of service to DEN with mainline aircraft.

I've been reading the press release, and I don't see mainline service DEN-COS anywhere - did I miss something?

The Denver Post says it will be Lynx service, which makes sense of not announcing it now - they can't, until Lynx is certified.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_7352426

"what many in Colorado Springs are more excited about is Frontier's plan to start flying between Denver and Colorado Springs by late spring. It could be four or five flights a day, according to Menke."

Comes the question of possible mainline service at COS, and Rampart scratched an itch of mine:

Quoting Rampart (Reply 19):
Colorado Springs ranks second (16%) in the US for percent Southern-borne for a city outside of the South.

Does that mean compass south - as in Texas - or The South - as in the geography of the confederacy?

If it is the former, then maybe Frontier should be looking at Texas. If it is the latter, then maybe Frontier should be looking to - MEM.

But - before that - I think that Frontier has to decide what they are going to do about MEM in general. Is it a focus city or not?

mariner
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rampart
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:35 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 32):
Does that mean compass south - as in Texas - or The South - as in the geography of the confederacy?

According to my reference book, and my geographic sensibilities, I meant both. Texas in my original reference stands alone as a strong destination for Colorado-based "Ex-ans" and their brethren. Texas is also a part of the Confederate and Census Bureau-defined South. My reference book lumped Texas with the others in that 16%. If I had to guess, I'd think that AA and CO have sufficient Texas coverage with connections. Plus possible rumored service from SAT on ExpressJet, I read that somewhere. (Though Transtates couldn't make it work.)

Memphis is another interesting possibility. NW once offered flights to COS for the connections (also to thwart WP who offered nonstops), but dropped. I can't recall if short-lived Great Plains offered throughplanes COS via TUL, may have been Nashville or Memphis, don't remember. If Memphis becomes a sort of focus for F9, therein lies a reasonable market plus potential to connect to Florida and the Gulf Coast. An alternative to ATL or CVG with DL.

-Rampart
 
Cactus739
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:42 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 32):
I've been reading the press release, and I don't see mainline service DEN-COS anywhere - did I miss something?

No..I don't think you're missing anything... it says ". While we are still analyzing the appropriate aircraft and frequencies for this service, we are committed to linking Colorado Springs to our DIA hub by late spring of 2008,"

So maybe Lynx...maybe not....
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
rampart
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:04 pm

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 30):
The carrier that really broke into the westbound traffic for COS was America West routing everything through PHX. Finally, DL came in to SLC and UA began the SFO and LAX flights - other than Western Pacific, which attempted the hub for serveral years.

I agree. Before that, FL and CO offered maybe one or two flights to PHX or LAX. Technically, Western operated the SLC-COS route first for several years, prior to the Delta merger, about the same time HP came into existence, but I could be wrong. Morris Air also operated COS-SLC for a few years, and everyone thought for sure that's where WN would enter COS when they bought Morris, but not the case.

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 34):
No..I don't think you're missing anything... it says ". While we are still analyzing the appropriate aircraft and frequencies for this service, we are committed to linking Colorado Springs to our DIA hub by late spring of 2008,"

So maybe Lynx...maybe not....

Yes, I saw that too. Could also be Republic. But unless F9 intend on ferrying empty A318s and A319s for the 20 minute jog to COS just for maintenance, the mainline Denver or p2p speculation is valid, or at least fun.

-Rampart
 
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:07 pm

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 4):
Mods, any way to fix the topic so it is spelled correctly?

Hanger: Clothes storage
Hangar: Airplane storage

This is one of my pet peeves.. I have seen even pilots make this mistake..
Earthbound misfit I
 
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mariner
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:11 pm

Quoting Rampart (Reply 33):
Texas is also a part of the Confederate and Census Bureau-defined South.

Off-topic: oddly, for someone of my background, I had a lot of connections with The South when I lived in the US. There was a common theme from all my friends and co-workers, across the races:

"The lobby of the Peabody Hotel (in Memphis) is the gateway to the South."

Getting back to the topic:

Quoting Rampart (Reply 33):
If Memphis becomes a sort of focus for F9, therein lies a reasonable market plus potential to connect to Florida and the Gulf Coast.

One reason for Frontier's very high loads MEM-MCO has been the feed from DEN, and MEM-FLL seems to be going the same way. MEM-LAS - which has no feed - isn't as good.

I could easily imagine that the folk of Colorado Springs might take to (say) COS-MEM-MCO at least as much as COS-DEN-MCO.

mariner
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rampart
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:33 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 37):
"The lobby of the Peabody Hotel (in Memphis) is the gateway to the South."

For that and several other reasons, barbeque being one of them, I would like to visit Memphis some day.

At the risk of drifting further off course, are you surprised that there isn't a MEM-CUN link yet? That would be another interesting connection for Springers, either through DEN or MEM.

-Rampart
 
ytib
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:59 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 32):
I've been reading the press release, and I don't see mainline service DEN-COS anywhere - did I miss something?



Quoting Ytib (Reply 24):
While we are still analyzing the appropriate aircraft and frequencies for this service, we are committed to linking Colorado Springs to our DIA hub by late spring of 2008, offering Colorado Springs a one-stop connection to over 60 cities in the U.S., Canada, and Central America via Frontier's mainline Airbus service.

I probably just read to much into the last line and misinterpreted the line about mainline Airbus service. Reading this again, it is mentioning the service out of Denver and not that it would be mainline from COS.
 
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:14 pm

Quoting Rampart (Reply 38):
At the risk of drifting further off course, are you surprised that there isn't a MEM-CUN link yet?

Well - yes. And no.

I think BNA-CUN screws that, and I think what they have to decide what they're going to do with that as well. It isn't Frontier's best performing Mexican p2p. On the other hand, NWA serves MEM-CUN, and Frontier has to keep a very wary eye on NWA on any route from MEM.

It keeps bringing me back to MEM, and what its future place in the network will be - or if it has a place. I'd be surprised to see it go, if only because (presumably) Frontier has invested a deal of money in it, and they seem to have taken the sting out of the NWA jinx.

But if MEM is to stay, then it must be protected and developed. I gather that Frontier has created a fair amount of goodwill at MEM, and that has to be worth something, too.

In a (desperate?) attempt to drag this back to the topic, I think the same may be true of COS. If they are going to serve it, I think it should be more than just feed to DEN.

At the same time, DEN must be protected, and very few cities can support a three airline hub. Frontier has certainly shown they can survive the Southwest onslaught and the funny buggers by United (the DEN-ANC 2008 Follies, eg), but there has to be more than simple survival.

mariner
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quickmover
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RE: Frontier Hangar To Colorado Springs

Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 32):
No..I don't think you're missing anything... it says ". While we are still analyzing the appropriate aircraft and frequencies for this service, we are committed to linking Colorado Springs to our DIA hub by late spring of 2008,"

So maybe Lynx...maybe not....

I'm sure they will see some Lynx flights, but how could they not have some mainline if COS will be a maintainance base for Airbus aircraft. Surely they would want revenue flights instead of ferry.
 
stapleton
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RE: Frontier Hangar To Colorado Springs

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 39):
I'm sure they will see some Lynx flights, but how could they not have some mainline if COS will be a maintainance base for Airbus aircraft. Surely they would want revenue flights instead of ferry.

Absolutely. Similar to what NW did for years with DLH when they had an airbus maintenance base there. DLH would have only seen DC9s otherwise. There are several other examples too. My guess is that we will see 3-5 DEN-COS flights per day with all but one being Lynx service. The RON will likely be an airbus so that they can swap aircraft in and out of maintenance.
 
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RE: Frontier Hangar To Colorado Springs

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 20):
I'll take as much info about COS as anyone cares to throw my way.

Make sure you read Fast Food Nation and watch Jesus Camp!

It'll be interesting to see how this works out for F9. Remote hangars may look good on the balance sheet, but they add a lot of complexity to an already complex operation. I hope it goes well for them. And I (along with most everyone else here) wonder if this means we may see some select flying from COS.. LAX, DFW, PHX, and MCO would be a good start.
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AirframeAS
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RE: Frontier Hangar To Colorado Springs

Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 26):
...den has a 36% tax on aircraft parts...

Well, then if DEN wants to keep business going, they ought to consider dropping that tax dramatically. They had their chance to do so and look where it got them. Whoever is running DEN needs a reality check. This hangar could have added jobs.

So DEN lost on this one, their own damn fault.

For F9....more power to them!
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TedEx
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RE: Frontier Hangar To Colorado Springs

Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 38):
Frontier has certainly shown they can survive the Southwest onslaught and the funny buggers by United (the DEN-ANC 2008 Follies, eg), but there has to be more than simple survival.

I know UA has pulled year-round service from DEN-ANC, but what are the DEN-ANC 2008 Follies? Did they add it back in for anything beyond seasonal service? Please enlighten!  Smile
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Hangar To Colorado Springs

Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:51 am

Quoting Tedex (Reply 43):
I know UA has pulled year-round service from DEN-ANC, but what are the DEN-ANC 2008 Follies?

The DEN-ANC Follies - 2008 version:

(i) United issues a press release anouncing the end of DEN-ANC as year round service (lack of profit). It will go seasonal, to end October 2007 and restart May 2008.

(ii) Quietly, Frontier's restart of DEN-ANC seasonal service appears in the schedule as March 5, 2008.

(iii) Even more quietly, with no announcement, United's restart of DEN-ANC appears in the schedule as February 13, 2008. Three or so weeks before Frontier.

(iv) Quietly, a couple of weeks later, Frontier's restart of DEN-ANC is postponed to April 1, 2008. April 1 seemed appropriate.

(v) Mr. Menke assumed command and Frontier's DEN-ANC restart was pushed back to May 9, 2008, which is about when it usually happens.

(vi) United decided to stay with its new schedule, flying in February/March, the weak, unprofitable months, while missing out on the bumper Christmas traffic.

mariner

[Edited 2007-11-03 02:00:27]
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RE: Frontier Hangar To Colorado Springs

Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:07 am

Quoting CarsAir04 (Reply 2):
Have there ever been any other airlines who have had a flight from COS to DEN?

I remember it was either SkyWest or Air Whiskey who did that for UA back when I was with ACA (at their end).

Quoting Mariner (Reply 30):
If it is the latter, then maybe Frontier should be looking to - MEM.

I was jumpseating on 2 mainline flights (IND-DEN and DEN-SFO), and the pilots mention of MEM surprised me, simply because I don't much follow F9. From what that pilot said, NW isn't doing so hot in MEM and will focus more on DTW and MSP, thus allowing for greater influx for F9.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 30):
But - before that - I think that Frontier has to decide what they are going to do about MEM in general. Is it a focus city or not?

IMO, just from the little I heard, the frequency of flying through MEM will have a noticeable increase - no timetable on that, though. But that came from the same pilot, and he also mentioned that there was speculation about a hangar going to COS. From that, though, it sounded like his information was minimal, since he noted as speculation what, only a week later, became reality.

Quoting Rampart (Reply 36):
At the risk of drifting further off course, are you surprised that there isn't a MEM-CUN link yet?

The pilot on another flight told me that CUN has plenty of F9 flying. It almost sounded like a focus city itself - not that anyone would really schedule a connection that way, though.
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RE: Frontier Hangar To Colorado Springs

Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:08 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 11):

And American - who have several flights a day on MD80's to DFW. They seem to do well and I was surprised there was so much demand for COS-DFW, compared with, say, COS-LAX.

Am I missing something?

The gigantic fortress hub AA has at DFW  Wink
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TedEx
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RE: Frontier Hangar To Colorado Springs

Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 44):
The DEN-ANC Follies - 2008 version:

Wow! Follies, indeed...

I was hoping UA (or F9) would have a holiday season flight.
 
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RE: Frontier Hangar To Colorado Springs

Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:57 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 38):
At the same time, DEN must be protected

Just from listening to Sean Menke, IMO, we could find some surprising changes. It just seems he has a mindset that is not totally different that Potter, but enough so that he is thinking out of the box.