ASEFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:06 am

DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:27 am

Now, I know this seems a bit ridic. BUT, if UAL can do ORD, why can't DL do ATL? If they can get their frequencies up here they could really take some FF loyalty from United.

With the dollar weak to the Euro/LB we have been seeing our European numbers rise...what do you all think?

http://aspentimes.com/article/20071031/NEWS/71030036/0/FRONTPAGE
 
AirTranTUS
Posts: 3313
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:20 am

On a CRJ-700? Come on, at least use a CRJ-900. I don't know how well a 757 would work, the airport is at ~7800 feet and has a 7000 ft. runway.
I love ASO!
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:44 am

airtran,
i have worked at ase and the cr7 is about the max you are going to get to make it out of ase on the commecial side. you can not take a full load out to ord as it is....if the cr9 could make it in then you would have seen the cr9 there last winter doing the slc-ase runs...also isnt expressjet going to start up some ase runs for delta?????
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:15 am

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 1):
I don't know how well a 757 would work, the airport is at ~7800 feet and has a 7000 ft. runway.

Not well at all, since the 757 is outside of ASE's wingspan limits. It's either the CRJ700 or the E170. Either one would be weight restricted, since ASE is 300nm further than ORD (and I don't think the E170 has been approved for ASE yet, though it probably could be). But ASE can be a big moneymaker, so I don't see why not.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:52 am

DL is certainly no strange to "longhaul" CR7 flights *cough*DFW-West Coast*cough*, though neither of those routes faced restrictions like ASE would likely occur. That said, a flight timed to connect with DL's Euro flights from ATL would certainly be worth a try.
 
ASEFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 98
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:03 pm

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 2):
some ase runs for delta????

I don't think so. The UAL flights out of here are SkyWest and Mesa, I think it doesn't make sense for them to bring another operator in...not for 3x a day. I think SkyWest actually does all the ground operations for Mesas Dash8s. I did see a truck with a mesa tug on it coming up the valley toward the airport yesterday afternoon, anyone know anything about that?
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:10 pm

ASE,
could it be for the ski season start up phx-ase???or is mesa/us not running it this season
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
skyrat
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:28 am

RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:42 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
or the E170

I don't think that they will try to bring in the E170. I don't know if it would be able to get in and out of ASE. But I think the ground ops might also be a problem. I think they have a good operation with the CR7's and Dash 8's.
flown:146,a319,a320,717,722,733,735,738,744,752,763,772,crj2,crj7,crj9,dc9,dc10,e135,e145,e170,e175,frj,md80
 
UN_B732
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:52 pm

ATL-ASE is the kind of route where I bet DL wishes it had F seats in its 700s. Maybe some day they will retro fit them to match the 170.

-A
What now?
 
Goldenshield
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:29 pm

The E-170's wingspan is over the limit by a few inches. The CRJ-900 cannot do the approaches into ASE due to its approach category.
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Mir
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:51 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 9):
The E-170's wingspan is over the limit by a few inches.

I thought the wingspan limit was 95 feet. the E170's span is 85 feet and 4 inches.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
NW747-400
Posts: 364
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:56 pm

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 8):
ATL-ASE is the kind of route where I bet DL wishes it had F seats in its 700s. Maybe some day they will retro fit them to match the 170.

ASA is rumored to be fitting a portion of the CR7 fleet with F seats per a request by DL.
 
DFW13L
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:58 pm

Someone here at Eagle told me that ASE and EGE are both outside the single-engine climb requirements for the CR7. That might just be an Eagle restriction, which is more restrictive than what is published, but I don't know the tech specifics behind any of it. Just what a pilot told me!
See, I knew American Eagle was first class all along!
 
Goldenshield
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:05 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
I thought the wingspan limit was 95 feet. the E170's span is 85 feet and 4 inches.

From what I can remember, I believe it's 84 feet for 121 flights.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:28 pm

Quoting NW747-400 (Reply 11):

ASA is rumored to be fitting a portion of the CR7 fleet with F seats per a request by DL.

Please make this come to fruition. GSO and MHT see their fair share of CRJ-700s, and a chance at an upgrade would be much better than the exit row.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3964
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:17 pm

Quoting NW747-400 (Reply 11):
ASA is rumored to be fitting a portion of the CR7 fleet with F seats per a request by DL.

I don't understand why they haven't gotten any 900's. Anyone want to bring some light to that? They are Delta's maine regional carrier for Atlanta and there are tons of routes out of Atlanta that can be switched over to CRJ-900 service.
What gets measured gets done.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:24 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 15):
I don't understand why they haven't gotten any 900's. Anyone want to bring some light to that? They are Delta's maine regional carrier for Atlanta and there are tons of routes out of Atlanta that can be switched over to CRJ-900 service.

My understanding is that the CR9's that SkyWest flies right now were originally slated to go to ASA. However, when SkyWest bought ASA, it was switched so that the CR9 flying would be done by the SkyWest side of the operation.
Good goes around!
 
Goldenshield
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:42 pm

Well, I correct myself here. The BAE-146 is 86 feet, and that was the main aircraft for years.
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FlyPNS1
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:13 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 15):
I don't understand why they haven't gotten any 900's. Anyone want to bring some light to that?

Until very recently, ASA had been in protracted labor negotiations (spanning 4+ years) with it's pilot group. With that going on, there was little chance Skywest would give the CRJ900's to ASA. Even going forward, I wouldn't be surprised to see Skywest keep most new planes on the Skywest side, as a way to whipsaw the non-union SKYW against the union ASA.
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:28 pm

Quoting DFW13L (Reply 12):
Someone here at Eagle told me that ASE and EGE are both outside the single-engine climb requirements for the CR7.

Which is why they're weight restricted going out.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Goldenshield
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:42 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
Which is why they're weight restricted going out.

Only to ORD and LAX, and that's in the dead of winter due to the mass demand for the seats. While summer usually has the hardest payload hits, they are usually non-events since demand for ASE isn't near as bad then.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Mir
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:50 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 20):
Only to ORD and LAX, and that's in the dead of winter due to the mass demand for the seats.

They're probably weight-restricted going to DEN as well, just that the trip is so short that they don't need to take a lot of fuel and can get away with a full payload.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Goldenshield
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:52 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 21):
They're probably weight-restricted going to DEN as well

Negative. Neither landing or takeoff weight restricted except for really bad tailwind.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:57 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 15):
They are Delta's maine regional carrier for Atlanta and there are tons of routes out of Atlanta that can be switched over to CRJ-900 service.

Pinnacle will be flying -900's out of ATL. DL has cross-bred its regional service across all of its hubs now to the point where it is difficult to keep track of.
 
skyrat
Posts: 81
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:11 pm

SkyWest currently services ATL with CR9's. Freedom will also be starting CR9 service from ATL.
flown:146,a319,a320,717,722,733,735,738,744,752,763,772,crj2,crj7,crj9,dc9,dc10,e135,e145,e170,e175,frj,md80
 
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United787
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:58 pm

I would be surprised to see ASE-ATL on DL. I can't see much of the catchment area for a flight like that through ATL; you don't see a lot of skiers in Aspen from the Southeast.

If they could pull off a JFK-ASE or even a CVG-ASE, then the catchment area would be the east coast which makes a lot more sense.

Of course, the good people at DL know more than I but I have seen them try and fail a lot of routes...
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:02 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 25):
I would be surprised to see ASE-ATL on DL. I can't see much of the catchment area for a flight like that through ATL; you don't see a lot of skiers in Aspen from the Southeast.

If I'm not mistaken, they do have an ATL-EGE flight in the winter. The only thing that's really kept them from doing ATL-ASE is that they haven't had the aircraft to do it with. If they think they now have it, then I'd expect to see it started up. The good thing about ASE is that high fares aren't going to have as much of an effect as they would elsewhere.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
bkircher
Posts: 109
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:23 am

I could see them doing that here in the near future. After all they are starting YUM to SLC in December!!! With the CRJ200
 
747fan
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:36 am

I know Freedom currently has CR9 service out of JFK, such as JFK-DFW. IIRC, Pinnacle will do most (I don't know about all) of the CR9 flying out of ATL, with Comair flying them out of CVG. I think SkyWest uses CR9's at both JFK and SLC. I know the CR7 on many legs such as ASE-ORD, ASE-ATL, and ASE-DFW would have to be weight-restricted due to engine-out climb requirements, but I'm sure it would have know problem getting off that 7800 ft. runway at a 7000 ft. elevation, given their strong takeoff performance. After all, DL uses CR7's nonstop out of EYW (Key West) to ATL, which has only a 4800 ft. runway; this is about a 550 mile, 1.5 hour flight, although I don't know if its weight-restricted. Correct me if any of this info. is wrong.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting 747fan (Reply 28):
I think SkyWest uses CR9's at both JFK and SLC.

The closest they get to JFK is EWR, and that's with Midwest.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
CWAFlyer
Posts: 536
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:24 am

I don't think the 900 is a real good idea going to ASE. The weight penatlties when the runway is wet or contaminated are worse than the 700. Back taxiing is often necessary to get off the runway which is a trick in the 700. The 900 with how much longer it is would be a recipie for the nosewheel to go off in the mud/snow.

What a lot of people don't know (including airline market planning people) is that the 900 does not have any more range than the 700. The fuel tank capacity is identical. I honestly think that the planning people think that because it's a bigger airplane that holds more people that it can fly farther. Not so. We have had to fuel stop the YYZ-SLC and the PIT-SLC flights (before Delta took back the PIT flights) several times because the tank capacity is exceeded for the amount required for the flight. We have had to stop in MCI, ICT, and MSP multiple times.
 
747fan
Posts: 862
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:40 am

RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 29):
The closest they get to JFK is EWR, and that's with Midwest.

No, Freedom uses DL Connection CR9's out of JFK. SkyWest doesn't send any there, I meant ATL in post 28. But Freedom has several CR9 flights out of JFK. They are flown on JFK-DFW. Comair also flies them out of there to ORD and AUS. Here's some proof:
www.flightaware.com/live/flight/FRL5961
The first day for this flight was 11/1/07. This route, as well as JFK-AUS, were formerly operated by Shuttle America E-170's.
I'd imagine ASE-ATL on a CR7 is doable if EYW-ATL nonstop w/ a 4800ft. runway is.
 
DMAJ7TH
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:04 am

RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:43 am

Quoting 747fan (Reply 28):
but I'm sure it would have know problem getting off that 7800 ft. runway at a 7000 ft. elevation, given their strong takeoff performance. After all, DL uses CR7's nonstop out of EYW (Key West) to ATL, which has only a 4800 ft. runway; this is about a 550 mile, 1.5 hour flight, although I don't know if its weight-restricted. Correct me if any of this info. is wrong.

The issue with an airport like ASE for jet aircraft is not the runway length (balanced field length) required, its the climb gradient it will do on one engine. Aircraft are certified to fly at least a net climb gradient of 3.3% (IFR) per regulation (sea level, max gross weight, one engine inop) during its second segment climb, however. Aspen requires a climb gradient of 950 ft per nautical mile to 12000 ft, which converts to a whopping 10.9% net climb required. An aircraft departing ASE could be well within its balanced field length of 7006 ft (ASE's runway length) but be at a weight that does not allow it to climb at 10.9%. I know because I have delt with that limit numerous times coming out of ASE. Flying out of EYW only requires a climb gradient of 3.3% (as per aircraft certification), so runway length becomes the limiting factor. At ASE the opposite is true - runway length is usually okay but climb gradient becomes a problem. Now, different airlines have different company policys that may put certain fudge factors in, but this is what the regs say.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: DL Rumored ASE To ATL

Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting 747fan (Reply 31):
No, Freedom uses DL Connection CR9's out of JFK. SkyWest doesn't send any there, I meant ATL in post 28.

So, I pointed out something that is true and correct, but because you meant something else entirely instead in what I had quoted, I'm now wrong?

When you find something to do besides blame others for your own faulty logic, let me know.
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