n1786b
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A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:27 am

This morning's Air et Cosmos' Confidentiel page says that Emirates will announce an LOI for 50 A350 XWBs at the Dubai air show. Saying that Emirates" finally realized it didn't have a choice" because Boeing is not ready to offer a 787-10 due to its concentrating on manufacturing issues surrounding the 787. It will order a mix of A350-900ERs and 350-1000.
It will also sign a lease of "around 30" A330s as interim lift. No delivery dates given.

- n1786b
 
karan69
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:33 am

If true congrats to both Airbus and EK, but i guess most of us expected this to go the Airbus way, the A330s are a surprise though considering their current ones are not even 7 years old

Karan
 
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hummingbird
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:36 am

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):

Interesting, I do hope your back up files are ready!
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
anstar
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:39 am

Interseting, though I doubt we will get confirmaiton before the Dubai Air show... I really don't think the 787 has a chance with EK atm
 
WINGS
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
It will order a mix of A350-900ERs and 350-1000.
It will also sign a lease of "around 30" A330s as interim lift. No delivery dates given.

Well at least this basically confirms inside rumours for the last couple of months.  Wink

Until EK confirms this, its still a rumour, but I am even more pleased to the the A330 included and wonder if the A330-300 are among their plans?

Will also be interesting to see who will be leasing the A330's. Maybe another (SQ lease deal) ?

Regards,
Wings
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kappel
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:56 am

What I find most intersting is the mix of aircraft, A350-900ER and A350-1000. No 358 or "regular" a359 if this report is accurate. I guess they can wait untill 2015, and that's the reason for the extra a330's.
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brightcedars
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:11 am

I'm seeing Airbus very smartly flooding the market with recent build A330-300X's in the coming years. I think they know what they're doing out here. New A330-300X have excellent economics and will please many leasing companies and small operators and somewhat undermine the B787's. The A330-300X isn't as much of a threat to the A350's as to the B787's, notably also because they are also sold (probably cheap) to operators that anyway order A350's along as a replacement.

As far as EK's huge fleet is concerned, I wouldn't be too surprised to see EKAL (Aircraft Leasing that is) be formed in the coming years, leasing what EK retires early to other operators around the world. With the big money they don't necessarily need to have a 200 wide-body strong fleet, but they can own a sizeable share of the world fleet nonetheless and reap the benefits of that strategic ownership.
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gilesdavies
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:13 am

Great news and pleased to see the A350 orders still gathering strength!

The alarm bells must be ringing at Boeing, to pull their fingers out and make a decison about the 787-1000. They really need to finalise plans for this aircraft, as they have potentially lost two very large orders for this aircraft from EK and QR.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 4):
but I am even more pleased to the the A330 included and wonder if the A330-300 are among their plans?

Same as you, if this order is genuine I am thrilled to see more A330, coming for EK. I also hope they are A330-300's! This aircraft is going from strength to strength!

Is it likely the A330's will be an additional order or is there a leasing company with 30 suplus aircraft?

[Edited 2007-11-02 02:37:14]
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:21 am

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
It will order a mix of A350-900ERs

Is this a new variant? How does it differ from a A350-900?
 
Danny
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:27 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 4):
Will also be interesting to see who will be leasing the A330's. Maybe another (SQ lease deal) ?

Who is leasing the SQ ones?

[Edited 2007-11-02 02:28:24]
 
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PM
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 9):
Who is leasing the SQ ones?

Airbus themselves.
 
Danny
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:39 am

Quoting PM (Reply 10):
Quoting Danny (Reply 9):
Who is leasing the SQ ones?

Airbus themselves.

I doubt it. Airbus is not a lessor and they seem to be rather in cash deficit that surplus these days.

[Edited 2007-11-02 02:40:08]
 
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PM
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:44 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 4):
wonder if the A330-300 are among their plans?

I think you know they are!  Wink

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
350-1000

A second order for the -1000. Good.

Quoting Danny (Reply 11):
I doubt it.

I'm pretty sure. Trawl through the archives (Airbus and A.Net) and you'll find it.
 
swallow
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:57 am

Do we know which engines Emirates will sign for? RR seems likely but another thread mentions that GE is coming on board the 350 project.
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OceansWorld
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 11):
Quoting PM (Reply 10):
Quoting Danny (Reply 9):
Who is leasing the SQ ones?

Airbus themselves.
I doubt it. Airbus is not a lessor and they seem to be rather in cash deficit that surplus these days.

To fill the Airline's capacity requirements on an interim basis until the delivery of new aircraft ordered from the two manufacturers, Singapore Airlines will enter into a lease arrangement with Airbus for 19 A330-300 aircraft for delivery from early 2009 until late 2010.

http://www.a380.singaporeair.com/con...ws/newsrelease/20060721/index.html

Still any doubt ?  Wink
 
Danny
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:17 am

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 14):
http://www.a380.singaporeair.com/con...ws/newsrelease/20060721/index.html

Still any doubt ?

Those news releases were not precise many times before. For a marketing guy lease an Airbus = lease from Airbus.
 
keesje
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 1):
the A330s are a surprise though considering their current ones are not even 7 years old

I dont't think so .

The A330 is about the only option if you want to add significant 250-300 seat medium/long haul capasity before 2013-2015.

The 787 is sold out / stops at ~280 seats, the XWB is years away, the 763 and 772 have questionable CASM for the next 20 yrs on most medium city pairs. E.g a 772ER is 150Lbs heavier then a A333. (per seat).
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
keesje
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:30 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 16):
For a marketing guy lease an Airbus = lease from Airbus

Doesn't e.g. ILFC own a few Airbusses?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
karan69
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:38 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):
The A330 is about the only option if you want to add significant 250-300 seat medium/long haul capasity before 2013-2015.

I am not at all doubting the A330 capabilities mate, infact its my favorite aircraft currently, what i am saying it was surprising as most of their current A332s are fairly new,

Also is it confirmed that the order is for 333 and not 332??

anyway lets not make much ado about nothing, all i know is i am glad to see the A330 get more orders,

Karan
 
chiad
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 8):
Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
It will order a mix of A350-900ERs

Is this a new variant? How does it differ from a A350-900?

I am wondering about that too.
Is there an A350-900ER already?
 
Scorpio
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:45 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 16):
For a marketing guy lease an Airbus = lease from Airbus.

Well, in this case, they will be leased from Airbus. It has always been announced as such, and Airbus lists the airframes as 'Singapore Airlines' on its orders and deliveries spreadsheet, not some lessor. That clearly indicates they're not selling them to some thrid party lessor, who then leases them to SQ.
 
EI321
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:51 am

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
A350-900ERs

Is this the A350-900R?

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 6):
I'm seeing Airbus very smartly flooding the market with recent build A330-300X's in the coming years. I think they know what they're doing out here. New A330-300X have excellent economics and will please many leasing companies and small operators and somewhat undermine the B787's.

Well if there is plentiful supply of A330s on the market it will lead to many operators becoming ong term airbus customers. Maybe Ryanair will take some cheap ones for their l/h venture!
 
Sjoerd
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:12 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 21):
Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 6):
I'm seeing Airbus very smartly flooding the market with recent build A330-300X's in the coming years. I think they know what they're doing out here. New A330-300X have excellent economics and will please many leasing companies and small operators and somewhat undermine the B787's.

They also sort of have to. They need to bridge and keep the line going untill the A350 comes along.

Sjoerd
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Stitch
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:18 pm

A333s make sense because EK is supposedly scrapping their 772A fleet by 2011 and I don't see them replacing those planes with 77Ls. The A332 and A343 fleet also leaves by 2013, so I suppose they will be replacing their current A332s with new units.

And when the say A350-900ER, do they mean the A350-900R or are they just appending "ER" to the title because of the range?
 
scouseflyer
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:29 pm

Obviously we'll have to wait untill official confirmation but this looks good for a XWB order - I'm guessing that they're going to firm the extra 8 A380s at DXB too.

I wonder if Airbus is going to start to offer frieghter conversions for the A330 as there'll be quite a number floating about in about 7 or 8 years time and converting them to the F model would be a great way to soak up the volumes.
 
na
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:48 pm

Pretty sure that the A350 will replace the then aging first batch of 773s as well as some 773ERs as they´ll be past 10 years when the A350 arrive. And the new A330s can accelerate the retirement of the 772"A" besides replacing the A332s/A343s now employed.
Any words about a possible 747-8I order? Thats far more interesting than the mid-size aircraft question for me, and, I suppose, for a majority on a.net.
 
columba
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:52 pm

Didn´ t they want to order 50 + 50 aircraft ? But still I hope this is not a rumor, the A350 needs some more customers (just like the 747-8I).
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
FCKC
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:34 pm

NA

EK told they will not sign for 747-8Is this year , as they push Boeing to improve it.
Also they said more A380s than their current order (55) is very likely.However not sure this year.
 
khobar
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:41 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 7):
The alarm bells must be ringing at Boeing, to pull their fingers out and make a decison about the 787-1000. They really need to finalise plans for this aircraft, as they have potentially lost two very large orders for this aircraft from EK and QR.

No alarm bells over this. EK has been trying to push Boeing for quite a while, and Boeing hasn't budged. Boeing saw this as EK's attempt to get a better deal from Airbus. Good call, it seems.
 
BestWestern
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:53 pm

Quoting Khobar (Reply 28):
No alarm bells over this. EK has been trying to push Boeing for quite a while, and Boeing hasn't budged. Boeing saw this as EK's attempt to get a better deal from Airbus. Good call, it seems.

I doubt boeing played this as you state Khobar, as they are an extremely run company. If they did, they would be monumentally stupid to ignore such a large and important customer as Emirates.

I'm also waiting for the Emirates is a pack of cards threads once an order is announced, and doesnt go to Boeing.,
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
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Stitch
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:54 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 7):
The alarm bells must be ringing at Boeing, to pull their fingers out and make a decison about the 787-1000. They really need to finalise plans for this aircraft, as they have potentially lost two very large orders for this aircraft from EK and QR.

Even if Boeing offered the 787-10 for sale today, unless a significant number of 787-8 customers canceled in favor of it, Boeing would not be able to get them into customer's hands until 12-24 months after Airbus can deliver A350-900s. So if an airline must have a 300+ seater that isn't a 777 or A340 ASAP, the A350 is the only option, regardless of what Boeing has planned or is on offer.

Quoting Columba (Reply 26):
Didn´t (EK) want to order 50 + 50 aircraft?

EK may have decided not to take any options, or the report may have not mentioned them.
 
kaitak
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:02 pm

Quoting Khobar (Reply 28):
No alarm bells over this

I would say they are disappointed; Boeing has been talking about a 787-10 for at least a year now, possibly longer and it's still nowhere to be seen; if the 787-10 were launched, EK would have been a likely customer. Moreover, with EK, SQ and other leading airlines on board - even smaller ones like EI and AY - the aircraft is developing a critical mass; few airlines like to be the only customer for a new acft (I'd say LH is praying that EK goes for the 747-8, in some form!) and the more the A350 gets, the better. It had probably the rockiest start of any major aircraft type in years, but now, it looks like a very plausible, credible competitor to the 787 - indeed the 777 as well - and that has to ring some alarm bells.
 
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Stitch
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:13 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 31):
(The A350) looks like a very plausible, credible competitor to the 787 - indeed the 777 as well - and that has to ring some alarm bells.

I am sure it does, but Boeing is busy trying to meet current demand for the 787, which will likely push 1000 units prior to EIS. A 787HGW will likely double that backlog, at a minimum.

Some people claim Boeing has already bitten off more then they can chew, and yet then castigate Boeing for not taking a second bite equally as large.
 
swallow
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:25 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
And when the say A350-900ER, do they mean the A350-900R or are they just appending "ER" to the title because of the range?

It is probably the -900R since Airbus does not use the -ER designation on its planes. That used to be a Boeing moniker until the 787 came along.
The grass is greener where you water it
 
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Stitch
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:28 pm

Quoting Swallow (Reply 33):
It is probably the -900R since Airbus does not use the -ER designation on its planes. That used to be a Boeing moniker until the 787 came along.

Sorry. What I meant to say was maybe the press was the one adding the "ER" to the name, not Airbus. So these would be A350-900s and not A350-900Rs.

[Edited 2007-11-02 08:28:54]
 
jacobin777
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:56 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 7):
The alarm bells must be ringing at Boeing, to pull their fingers out and make a decison about the 787-1000. They really need to finalise plans for this aircraft, as they have potentially lost two very large orders for this aircraft from EK and QR.

...its the fastest selling widebody in civil aviation history...they can barely keep up with demand..where would the so-called "alarm bells" be? They can't get every order anyway....

Quoting Stitch (Reply 32):
Some people claim Boeing has already bitten off more then they can chew, and yet then castigate Boeing for not taking a second bite equally as large.

 checkmark 

Boeing needs to get their situation in order before making an attempt at other iterations of the B787....
"Up the Irons!"
 
aa1818
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:54 pm

Congrats to Airbus and EK. While not easily predicted as there were two great planes in competition, Airbus did have an advantage capacity wise, and so, the more suitable plane for EK won this battle- of course only if this rumour is true!

Ek has finally made up their mind!! I am suprised to see this pop up, though, one would have thought that the decision would have been kept a secret untill the Dubai Airshow later this month!!??

Quoting Stitch (Reply 32):
Some people claim Boeing has already bitten off more then they can chew, and yet then castigate Boeing for not taking a second bite equally as large.

That is so true. Very well said.
Boeing is attempting to deliver an amazing aircraft in record time and continues to break sales records.
It has encountered difficulties which I believe they did not forsee or at least not to this extent. Nevertheless I am sure they will resolve the issues within the new time frame.
the 787-10 is a hard call on Boeing's part. A re-engineered 777 could potential rain heavily on the successes experienced by the A350 currently.

Boeing needs to get the 787 issues under it's belt, and if that can be done by January 2008, then it can focus on testing the plane, and can shift resources over the a possible 787-10 or 777 replacement.

Does anyone think that a 2nd production line might still be on the cards once they get the issues sorted out? Or is that idea dead??

Good luck to Boeing on the 787 and congrats again to Airbus if this rumour turns out to be true.

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:04 pm

I'll be delighted if this is true - and I expect it is.

I still think the A333 would be a great addition to the EK fleet - bin the 772s and the A343s and replace them with A333s. The newest A333X would be able to do all the missions EK use their A343 for as far as I know. Trent-powered A330 fleet - you know it makes sense! Then replace the whole lot with cutting egde A350s!

Shedload of 77Ws for the main trunk routes that dont support the A380 and the 77L and A345 for the ULH thinner routes. Replace them with A350s in due course.

Gap between 77W and A388 fairly large on paper and perhaps they could shoehorn the 748I in there, although I think EK are planning to use a few different configs on the A388 and as such the gap between EK's high-density 77W fleet and the low-density A388s is probably going to be not that much, say 70 seats or less. In my opinion they have it well covered.

GO EK!!! 

[Edited 2007-11-02 10:07:02]
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
ebj1248650
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:14 pm

In years to come I see lots of retired A330-300s becoming freighters ... and that's good for freight haulers and for Airbus too. The continued trend to order A330s means there'll be lots of these birds around for years to come.
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
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breiz
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:18 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 15):
Those news releases were not precise many times before. For a marketing guy lease an Airbus = lease from Airbus.



Quoting Scorpio (Reply 20):
Well, in this case, they will be leased from Airbus. It has always been announced as such, and Airbus lists the airframes as 'Singapore Airlines' on its orders and deliveries spreadsheet, not some lessor. That clearly indicates they're not selling them to some thrid party lessor, who then leases them to SQ.

Airbus ASA have to leasing units: AFS (Airbus Financial Services) and AAMD (Airbus Asset Management Division), AFS for new ac (in conjunction with various banks depending on the airline) and AAMD for used ac.
http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...releases_items/04_04_03_Avion.html
http://www.airbus.com/en/services/asset/
 
flytuitravel
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:21 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 11):
Airbus is not a lessor

Airbus is a lessor...
Any airline can be a lessor as well - all they have to do is lease a plane or two to another company!
SQ will lease the A333s from Airbus.
OK leases two A310s from Airbus.
And I'm sure there are many more examples!
 
Carls
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:02 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 37):

Let's see what EK will order. I still remember your words..........and I am just waiting for that day and see what are you going to say. ?

[Edited 2007-11-02 11:06:14]
 
Motorhussy
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 18):
Also is it confirmed that the order is for 333 and not 332??

It would appear that nothing is confirmed currently as this is just a rumour (well substantiated or not).

Roll on Dubai!
come visit the south pacific
 
khobar
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:13 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 29):
I doubt boeing played this as you state Khobar, as they are an extremely run company. If they did, they would be monumentally stupid to ignore such a large and important customer as Emirates.

Did EK pony up any money? Did they sign a launch order? No, of course not. Boeing said long ago that they would not launch a 787-10 that did not meet their own expectations. Given what EK has done in the past, Boeing knew from when they first mentioned a 787-10 that EK wouldn't bite unless the plane were at least what Boeing wanted it to be.

So, no, Boeing was not monumentally stupid in not committing billions of dollars to chase an EK order that would very likely not materialize. It's not a matter of simply stretching the fuselage and Bob's your uncle. It also must suit EK's needs in range, fuel consumption, hot-weather performance, etc, etc, etc.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 31):
I would say they are disappointed; Boeing has been talking about a 787-10 for at least a year now, possibly longer and it's still nowhere to be seen; if the 787-10 were launched, EK would have been a likely customer.

Disappointed, yes. Surprised? Hardly. As previously said, Boeing has maintained from the beginning that they would not launch the 787-10 until they felt it could perform where they wanted. It's not there yet. I'm sure Boeing wants to take a look at what comes out of the 787-8 and run any and all optimizations learned from it through their abaci before deciding what to do next.

Or Boeing and EK could surprise me. After all, the expectation was for 100 aircraft, and the rumored EK order is for 50 plus stop-gap lease on 30 A330's. Anything is possible.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:16 pm

Quoting Carls (Reply 41):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 37):

Let's see what EK will order. I still remember your words..........and I am just waiting for that day and see what are you going to say.

All due respect mate - but when was the last time I started mouthing off on here and was completely wrong?

There have been times, I assure you  Smile
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
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lightsaber
Crew
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:20 pm

When are the first A350's currently scheduled for delivery?

Not that anyone believes any delivery dates anymore.  Wink  duck  Just kidding!  flamed 

Quoting WINGS (Reply 4):
and wonder if the A330-300 are among their plans?



Quoting PM (Reply 12):
I think you know they are!

Now that is a good question. We're talking about enough airframes to form a new subfleet... so it would work. 29 A332's, 29 (ish) A333s? Now only at the highest MTOW (EK will need the range. The 68k thrust powerplants would have marginal cargo on a few routes.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):
the 763 and 772 have questionable CASM for the next 20 yrs on most medium city pairs. E.g a 772ER is 150Lbs heavier then a A333. (per seat).

 rotfl  The 763 is only being used for gap orders for existing 767 operators. Great plane in its day...

As to the 772ER... I haven't heard of anything but a top off order in a long time. With the 77W and 77L doing quite well... it would be silly to discount them at this time. What I see as a potential "wrench in the gears" is either a discounted 748 or 77W/77L for EK. Somehow EK does a better job of upgauging than anyone else.

Either way, with the new bilateral with Spain, further growth in Europe (rumors of LUX and other destinations), EK will need more airframes!

Quoting Sjoerd (Reply 22):
They also sort of have to. They need to bridge and keep the line going untill the A350 comes along.

That is a good point. Since the engineering on the A330's is amortized... run the line at break even or at even a small loss (less than the cost of shutting it down) until the A350 is ready. GM did that in the last economic downturn (sold cars at a loss, but not as big of a loss as idling a plant).

Quoting Breiz (Reply 39):

Airbus ASA have to leasing units: AFS (Airbus Financial Services) and AAMD (Airbus Asset Management Division), AFS for new ac (in conjunction with various banks depending on the airline) and AAMD for used ac.
http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...releases_items/04_04_03_Avion.html
http://www.airbus.com/en/services/asset/

Thanks for the information. Leasing is a very profitable business. Airbus can borrow money cheaper than the airlines... so they'll do a good business.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
scoliodon
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:21 pm

EK has been pushing Boeing to beef up the 787...good choice on their part to go with the A350's heavier variants.

And what can I say about the A333s...great to see more of 'em around.
As someone else said, it's a wise move by Airbus..silently flooding the market with A330s  Smile
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ER757
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:07 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 32):
Some people claim Boeing has already bitten off more then they can chew, and yet then castigate Boeing for not taking a second bite equally as large.

 checkmark  So true - lots of airchair CEO's here who can't be plaesed. Maybe they think they're Tim Clark  Smile

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 31):
I would say they are disappointed; Boeing has been talking about a 787-10 for at least a year now, possibly longer and it's still nowhere to be seen;

I's agree that Boeing is disappointed if this order is confirmed, but as others have said, the existing 787 needs to get built and up in the air for testing before Boeing should worry too much about new variants.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 36):
Does anyone think that a 2nd production line might still be on the cards once they get the issues sorted out? Or is that idea dead??

With their current supply chain headaches, I'd say a 2nd line is on the back burner for a good long time. We may see it eventually, but not soon.
 
iwok
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:56 pm

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
Emirates will announce an LOI for 50 A350 XWBs

So much for an ORDER for 100  rotfl 

It looks like Clark is taking a page form Airbus and doing the Leahy backtrack  laughing 

I think Airbus will take their time getting the 389 launched, because its clear they can't bank on anything from EK.

Anyway, 50 350's is better than nothing, and while not exactly a home run, the LOI for 50 ships is not too bad.

iwok
 
keesje
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RE: A&C: Emirates - 50 A350XWB + 30 A330s

Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting Iwok (Reply 48):
Anyway, 50 350's is better than nothing, and while not exactly a home run, the LOI for 50 ships is not too bad.

  

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 45):
That is a good point. Since the engineering on the A330's is amortized... run the line at break even or at even a small loss (less than the cost of shutting it down) until the A350 is ready. GM did that in the last economic downturn (sold cars at a loss, but not as big of a loss as idling a plant).

Wait a minute, its the only real efficient 250-300 seater you can buy during this economic boom & still Airbus is supposed to run the line at break even or at even a small loss?

I would say raise the prices.

Everyone is free to go to Boeing of a cheap(?) 777-200ER or a spanking new 767-400ER..

I would qualify the A330 as an old fashioned cash machine.



[Edited 2007-11-02 17:35:31]
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