Richie72
Topic Author
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:02 am

CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:41 pm

Hi,

Just noticing that for the second day running CO69 ARN -EWR has diverted .....today to Goose Bay(YYR) and yesterday to St Johns (YYT) . Recently it came down in Gander(YQX)

I presume this is due to full loads and strong headwinds at this time of year (?)

My question is how much approximately would a diversion like this cost CO if you take into account the extra landing fees ,refuelling costs ,missed connections etc??

It seems like only the ARN flight is affected today (and yesterday) but sometimes i notice numerous CO B757's diverting after their intial Atlantic crossing.....must add quite a bit to the daily operating costs for CO!

Thanks
/R
 
ADXMatt
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:07 pm

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:59 pm

COA97 TXL-EWR is going to Gander (YQX) today. Due to not getting requested north atlantic track and flight level created a higher then planned burn along with the heavy payload

Costs invlolved is proprietary information.

The cost would vary based on the connections involved and how they need to be re-accomodated. The extra landing fee and fuel is small compared to the big picture.

However it is not good PR if it happens too often.
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:07 pm

richie,
Am good freinds with the CO station manager here where im at and i asked him this question, he has worked in ewr and at h.q. in houston prior to coming here, He says on a 57 stopping off in canada for fuel/mech or medical its around 25,000 and thats after you take everything into consideration.
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
Richie72
Topic Author
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:02 am

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:14 pm

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 2):
richie,
Am good freinds with the CO station manager here where im at and i asked him this question, he has worked in ewr and at h.q. in houston prior to coming here, He says on a 57 stopping off in canada for fuel/mech or medical its around 25,000 and thats after you take everything into consideration

Interesting stuff -thanks very much!

It all adds up and can be quite expensive over a year.......especially if it happens quite regularily as it seems to with CO's 757's
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4488
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:19 pm

Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 1):
The cost would vary based on the connections involved and how they need to be re-accomodated.

I recently flew to EWR in a westbound flight that was just late enough to break most pax connections. While reticketing me, the CO agent said that in most cases CO has one or two later flights from EWR to the ultimate destinations and that they are almost always able to rebook the pax on the same day. She was pressed, so I didn't ask her if CO blocks seats on those flights for the purpose of protecting TATL pax.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4485
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:40 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
She was pressed, so I didn't ask her if CO blocks seats on those flights for the purpose of protecting TATL pax.

I am sure they block seats but not until they have a firm ETA on the delayed flight.
 
ADXMatt
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:07 pm

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:59 pm

Quoting Richie72 (Reply 3):
especially if it happens quite regularily as it seems to with CO's 757's

Please define reguarly...

It doesn't happen very often. The company has done an excellent job limeting the bookings/payload for these fuel critical flights. However occaisonilly you may get a group of flights diverting for fuel do to the winds.
 
ScottishLaddie
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:09 pm

Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 6):
It doesn't happen very often. The company has done an excellent job limeting the bookings/payload for these fuel critical flights. However occaisonilly you may get a group of flights diverting for fuel do to the winds.

There has been a few instances in the past couple of weeks alone where headwinds and weather over the Atlantic have been particularly bad which has neccessitated tech stops on the longer B752 routes. There was even one day last week when the 2nd EDI flight had to plan for a gas and go at Gander things were so bad, on that day the longer B752 routes wouldn't have stood a chance. I have noticed that recently on TXL-EWR 40(!) seats have been getting blocked just to give the aircraft the legs I assume, that's an awful lot of seats to the point where maybe some would start to question the viability of the route on B752?
 
COewrAAtysAZ
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:15 am

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:41 pm

We at Continental have a department that purely tracks the connections of passengers on board flights that are delayed for whatever reason. When a flight is going to be late, they go through everyone's connections on that flight and rebook them prior to you even getting to the airport. That way when you come up to one of the Customer Service reps, they go into your reservation and see if you've been rebooked already. For the most part, they get the job done. On bad nights that involve weather, the amount of passengers "pre" rebooked goes down because of the large amount of customers to be rebooked. On isolated or less severe days, the department does pretty well on getting everyone done.
Continental Airlines: Trabajar con empe�?��?�±o, Volar con Pasi�?��?�³n
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19287
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting Coewraatysaz (Reply 8):
When a flight is going to be late, they go through everyone's connections on that flight and rebook them prior to you even getting to the airport.

With average load factors often in the mid 80% range these days and many completely full flights, that must complicate rebooking when inbound flights have major delays.
 
Richie72
Topic Author
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:02 am

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:12 pm

Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 6):
Please define reguarly...

I dont have exact numbers for defining 'regularily ' but I have been tracking flights everyday over the past few weeks and there have been quite a lot of CO diversions recently ...

In fact for the 3rd day running CO69 has been diverted again today -this time to Montreal (YUL) where it will be landing in approx 1hr 40 mins.

Most diversions have been in Newfoundland directly after the Atlantic crossing -this one today is pretty far south - wonder why YUL has been chosen?!

/R
 
highflier92660
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:16 am

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:55 pm

You are correct about the diversions. I've been checking on routesinternational.com/tracker and the 752 is having a bad time of it westbound. Perhaps someone with a long memory can confirm that this is somewhat analogous to the dawn of transatlantic jet travel when the Boeing 707-120 had to divert frequently on westbound trips. For forty years the airlines have had no problems with routes as long as Germany to JFK. Could this be symptomatic of a larger issue; namely the airlines attempting to stretch their equipment to the limits of the range envelope in the quest to maximize revenue? A few short years ago the Boeing 757 was never asked to fly TXL-EWK range routes.

This seems to be a fall/winter wind component problem that would take optimum flight track and flight level solutions to overcome the Boeing 752 lack of range.
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:05 pm

question for any co employee that deals with tatl misconnects.....does co provide hotel accomodations for misconnected pax that are on a flight that makes a fuel stop?? i could see this as a wx related problem but also i would expect a hotel being a intl pax??
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
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iahcsr
Posts: 3709
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 2:59 pm

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 12):
does co provide hotel accommodations for disconnected pax that are on a flight that makes a fuel stop??

Planned and unplanned fuel stops would normally be a 'payable' event yes  yes .
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
ADXMatt
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:07 pm

RE: CO Transatlantic Diversion Cost Question

Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting Richie72 (Reply 10):
-this one today is pretty far south - wonder why YUL has been chosen?!

Due to the route of flight YUL was a logical choice as it was flying over it. ARN tracks very far north alot of times.

You will see problems with fuel stops usually over a 2 or 3 day period as it takes the jet stream time to move.

Over the course of the season or year the number of fuel stops are quite low in fact.

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