VAAengineer
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Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:46 am

I was pushing back my VS10 on 02 NOV and Maxjet plane taxied into terminal 4 followed by many PA vehicles, ASIG agents( maxjet's ground handling agent ) said right engine caught on fire after take-off. Any Feedback?
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Siren
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:51 am

Anyone know which plane this was, or if it occurred?

Flight Status

From Maxjet.com


Departure Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 Arrival Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007
Flight No. 0100 Status: On Time
Departure Arrival
Airport Terminal Scheduled Time Airport Terminal Scheduled Time
JFK 4 8:15 PM STN Main 7:15 AM
 
EMBQA
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:55 am

I doubt it 'caught fire'.... if it did it would not be taxing back to the gate. My guess would be a compressor stall, which will make quite the show but really not be all that serious.
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acvitale
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:33 am

The MaxJet Website is just plain not telling the truth.

Flight Aware shows it departed at 12:10am and is around 4 hrs delayed on departure.

Needless to say something happened. Probably a compressor stall followed by mandatory inspection.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MXJ100

[Edited 2007-11-02 21:34:32]
 
WJ
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 2):
My guess would be a compressor stall, which will make quite the show but really not be all that serious.

Compressor stall is nothing serious??? Except of course the loud thud and a possible engine change... I wasnt there so I dont know what Maxi Pad had, but it cant be positive.
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Mir
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 2):
I doubt it 'caught fire'.... if it did it would not be taxing back to the gate. My guess would be a compressor stall, which will make quite the show but really not be all that serious.

Doesn't a compressor stall burn the compressor blades? I was under the impression that after a compressor stall the engine needed a thorough inspection and possible replacement.

If the flight took off again four hours later it may just have been an abnormal reading that they decided to return to JFK over.

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AA737-823
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Doesn't a compressor stall burn the compressor blades?

Not necessarily.
It depends on the engine. Pratt JT-8s are known for frequent compressor stalls, particularly on the old 727 series aircraft.
But if an IAE V2500 has a stall on an A320, the scarebus computers will typically auto-shutdown that engine.

But many times, a stall is a completely survivable event... for the engine, I mean.
Other times, yes, severe damage can be done. It's hard to predict.
 
notdownnlocked
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:53 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 2):
I doubt it 'caught fire'.... if it did it would not be taxing back to the gate. My guess would be a compressor stall, which will make quite the show but really not be all that serious.

Per ETOPS/US FAA requirements, a compressor stall on an ETOPS equipped aircraft mandates an engine change prior to further ETOPS activities. As someone previously said 727's did have many but how many 727's flew ETOPS? I think none/zero. A compressor stall is the same as a statement that the engine is telling you something internal is wrong and any replacement of an engine accessory will not do the correct repair as there is internal damage. If an engine is not worn out a crosswind or other relative problem will cause a stall. ETOPS=stall it=change it.
 
VAAengineer
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:56 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 6):
Not necessarily.
It depends on the engine. Pratt JT-8s are known for frequent compressor stalls, particularly on the old 727 series aircraft.
But if an IAE V2500 has a stall on an A320, the scarebus computers will typically auto-shutdown that engine.

But many times, a stall is a completely survivable event... for the engine, I mean.
Other times, yes, severe damage can be done. It's hard to predict.

Not True on V2500. I changed many VSV actuators on those engines on AW aircraft but the engines DONT autoshutdown .
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EMBQA
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:02 pm

Quoting Wj (Reply 4):

Compressor stall is nothing serious???

In the grand scheme of things.. No it's not a big deal.

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
I was under the impression that after a compressor stall the engine needed a thorough inspection and possible replacement.

Yes, you are correct. But even if the engine requires change.... if you have a good crew and a QEC ready to go, it's only a few hours.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
jlbmedia
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:37 pm

Quoting Notdownnlocked (Reply 7):
As someone previously said 727's did have many but how many 727's flew ETOPS?

Is this a trick question? Isn't ETOPS for Twin (2) engine aircraft. The 727 is a TRI-JET (3) engine plane, therefore a 727 would not qualify under the ETOPS rules.  scratchchin 
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Btblue
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:12 pm

Quoting VAAengineer (Thread starter):

Hey I was on VS 10 last night and remember seeing a load of vehicles with lights flashing. Also, it took us at least 45 minutes from gate departure to take-off - dunno if this had something to do with debris on the runway?
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:46 pm

Quoting Btblue (Reply 11):
Hey I was on VS 10 last night and remember seeing a load of vehicles with lights flashing. Also, it took us at least 45 minutes from gate departure to take-off - dunno if this had something to do with debris on the runway?

45 minutes at JFK? That just shows you were being expedited.  Wink
 
flightopsguy
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:48 pm

I thought Maxjet was NOT ETOPS...or did they get qualified?
Often the limiting factor is getting a fresh engine to the location needed.
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747fan
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:50 am

I know for a fact that the P&W JT8D's are rather notorious for compressor stalls. I also know MaxJet's 762's have the JT9D- is compressor stalling also a JT9D problem? I know it was a problem with at least the early JT9D's that were originally on the 747. Anyways, I know its bad that I don't know this, but what usually causes compressor stalls? Do they often occur simply because the engine is worn out?
Sorry for all these questions!  Yeah sure

Quoting Btblue (Reply 11):
Also, it took us at least 45 minutes from gate departure to take-off - dunno if this had something to do with debris on the runway?

If it took "only" 45 minutes to taxi at JFK, you were lucky.  Wink Actually, I was tracking some flights on passur last night and saw they were actually using both 13R AND 13L for departures, which seems rather odd. So if it wasn't for that, it probably would've taken you well over an hour, if not nearly 2 hours. The reason the taxi times at JFK in the evening are so long is simply due to too many flights scheduled to depart at one time. The same problem also occurs at EWR and PHL, although its generally not as bad.
 
flightopsguy
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:04 am

Quoting 747fan (Reply 14):
f it took "only" 45 minutes to taxi at JFK, you were lucky. Wink Actually, I was tracking some flights on passur last night and saw they were actually using both 13R AND 13L for departures, which seems rather odd. So if it wasn't for that, it probably would've taken you well over an hour, if not nearly 2 hours. The reason the taxi times at JFK in the evening are so long is simply due to too many flights scheduled to depart at one time. The same problem also occurs at EWR and PHL, although its generally not as bad.

JFK does two in and one out, or one in and two out during the departure push. Another reason for delays. Hopefully the airspace redesign will allow for two runways in and two out at the same time during the entire operating day.
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Reggaebird
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting Btblue (Reply 11):
Hey I was on VS 10 last night and remember seeing a load of vehicles with lights flashing. Also, it took us at least 45 minutes from gate departure to take-off - dunno if this had something to do with debris on the runway?

If it only took you 45 minutes to get from the gate to "wheels up", you are quite fortunate. I fly out of JFK in the late evening (between 6pm-8:30pm) quite frequently and the gate-takeoff time is rarely less than 1.25 hours. Maybe you benefited from departure after 9pm. Consider yourself lucky.

Reggaebird
 
notdownnlocked
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 10):
Quoting Notdownnlocked (Reply 7):
As someone previously said 727's did have many but how many 727's flew ETOPS?

Is this a trick question? Isn't ETOPS for Twin (2) engine aircraft. The 727 is a TRI-JET (3) engine plane, therefore a 727 would not qualify under the ETOPS rules.

Not really a trick question but someone mentioned they worked 727's with compressor stalls. I have done this many times on MD-88's and 727's-change a part and send it on its way. Not the same with an ETOPS rated plane. That is the reason it is called ETOPS. Do you really want to fly with a tired motor that possibly will stall (the equivalent of backfire and lose thrust) on a twin engine plane if you are flying it across the ocean when it has already shown audible and visual characteristics of problems on the ground. Chances are that the pilots won't take it and the mechanics will not sign off a check and here in the USA the FAA has already answered the question for you. Can you guess what it is? On the other hand in the US how far can it possibly be to the next suitable airport even in an emergency while riding/flying 727/MD88? Not far.
 
IADCA
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:40 pm

Quoting Notdownnlocked (Reply 17):
Not the same with an ETOPS rated plane. That is the reason it is called ETOPS.

I believe what he was getting at is that ETOPS is an acronym, which according to ICAO is "Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards." A 727 has three engines. Therefore it is not a twin-engine plane, and ETOPS doesn't apply, just like it doesn't apply to Tristars, DC10s, MD11s, and any other tri or quad. Whether a plane has engines that tend towards compressor stalls doesn't affect how many engines it has (at least to start with!).

[Edited 2007-11-04 07:42:00]
 
Btblue
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RE: Maxjet Engine Fire JFK

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:17 pm

Quoting 747fan (Reply 14):

Hmm well it was my first out of JFK and to be honest I assumed it would be a quick departure... looks like I was wrong but lucky only having to wait 45 minutes....
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