QantasHeavy
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The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:45 am

Have just spent a few hours on three afternoons transitting in Changi airport this week on SQ and was happy to get to see the A380 sitting at the gate (in its berth is more like it!) each time. The viewing area near the pizza place between E&F councourses in Terminal 2 (I think, may have gotten them wrong, I always get mixed up in SQ's councourses at SIN) has a great view of the giant sitting with its (looked like three, two lower and one upper) mutliple jet bridges attached on the far side and the catering trucks on the near (starboard) side towards the viewing area lifting up to the upper deck.

I was amazed at how enormous the horizontal stabilizers are... they looked twice the size of the wings of a Silk Air A320 which looked as though it limbo'd under the A380's massive wing.

The greatest thing about it was how many people were taking pictures of it and talking about the airplane. I was born a few years after the 747 was rolled out, but it is great to see the public getting excited about aviation. Fathers/mothers pointing to the airplane and explaining to their children, children running to the glass and pointing/shouting "there it is!", serious-looking business people putting down their BlackBerries and walking to the glass and just gazing at the huge machine, people calling people on their mobile phones saying, "Hey I am sitting here looking out at the new A380!", airport staff getting their colleauges to take their picture with the A380 in the background.

Was so great to see men, women and children from a wide variety of cultures all sharing the same fascination. While I know that we in the forum give the general public little credit for understanding one type of airplane form the other, and aviation altogether (who are educated by a media which makes references to "Boeing dc-1011 air buses")... there is no doubt that people might get other aircraft confused, but think for the whale jet people will be able to confidently and accurately declare... "THAT is an A380!"

I have thrown my rocks in the A v B wars on how late the thing was and how it has disrupted the Qantas fleet planning, etc. But when looking at the aircraft in person I was very impressed. Congratulations to Airbus and SQ!
 
astuteman
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting QantasHeavy (Thread starter):
The viewing area near the pizza place between E&F councourses in Terminal 2

Transited Changi myself on Thursday.

I was amazed at the level of buzz being generated by the A380.

OK, Changi is the home of the first one, so some was to be expected, but even pax travelling on a variety of other airlines were all talking about it, and talking it up, too. In fact, just about everyone was...  Smile
(SQ staff in particular - unsurprisingly)

Quoting QantasHeavy (Thread starter):
Was so great to see men, women and children from a wide variety of cultures all sharing the same fascination.

Absolutely!  Smile

Regards
 
slz396
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:49 am

SQ reports that the forward looking load factor for daily A380 SIN-SYD flight is substantially higher than on the 2 other daily flights it operates, meaning a lot of people are actually going out of the way not only to see, but also to fly the A380!

Although still very premature at present, it does back up the idea of SQ that the A380 will allow them to win over a lot of new customers traditionally flying with other airlines...

SQ seems to have identified the potential of this plane correctly: not only does it offer stellar CASM, but also is it a true game changer: a must have for airlines in Asia.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:52 am

Quoting QantasHeavy (Thread starter):
but think for the whale jet people will be able to confidently and accurately declare... "THAT is an A380!"

I'll bet you that there have people already said "Now Tommy, that is a Super A380 made by Boeing!" Or "Thats a SUPER Airbus 747!" LOL!  Smile
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Ryanair!!!
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:47 am

I guess the "WOW" factor can be similarly applied to SYD as well if you are transitting through that airport.
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OA260
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:17 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 2):
SQ reports that the forward looking load factor for daily A380 SIN-SYD flight is substantially higher than on the 2 other daily flights it operates, meaning a lot of people are actually going out of the way not only to see, but also to fly the A380!

Yes a lot of travel companies are noticing that also. The 744 flights are all available and the A380 flights are jammed. I guess in time it will calm down as everyone wants to try the new A380. If someones going to Australia they probably think ''I may as well fly the A380''. Certainly looks that way from the loads.
 
flashflyguy
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 3):
I'll bet you that there have people already said "Now Tommy, that is a Super A380 made by Boeing!" Or "Thats a SUPER Airbus 747!" LOL!

In Singapore, I'm not so sure.  Wink You have to consider that you just about fall over this http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e258/flasha80/Misc/IMG_2800.jpg near the area you can view the A380 at the gate in SIN. All the information about the aircraft is there.

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 4):
I guess the "WOW" factor can be similarly applied to SYD as well if you are transitting through that airport.

I think the gate they're using in SYD isn't that easily seen from the landside part of the terminal, where most everyone is, so the "WOW" factor would only be airside and near the gate. It would be interesting to know how crowded that gate area gets with people gawking at it... Big grin
 
Glareskin
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:33 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
If someones going to Australia they probably think ''I may as well fly the A380''. Certainly looks that way from the loads.

But is it only the first time "been there, done that" effect? For what you read in the trip reports the flying is a better experience in itself due to the roomier space, the remarkably lower noise levels, the better pressure and humidity. This could be a reason for pax to always try to be on the A380. Of course for SQ this effect will be gone at the moment the others receive the A380 and probably the 787 and the A350 will generate a similar. if not better flying experience.
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slz396
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:54 am

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 7):
But is it only the first time "been there, done that" effect? For what you read in the trip reports the flying is a better experience in itself due to the roomier space, the remarkably lower noise levels, the better pressure and humidity. This could be a reason for pax to always try to be on the A380.

Indeed, from the comments it does sound as if it is an effect which is going to last.

People are actually willing to step somewhat out of their way to fly on this plane and since the A380 has very favourable CASM numbers too, ticket prices will likely not be a game stopper, so the 2 combined mean an airline operating the A380 has a clear asset over the competition!

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 7):
Of course for SQ this effect will be gone at the moment the others receive the A380...


When other airlines receive their A380s, the effect will indeed dilute over all airlines operating the A380.
Those who don't operate it on routes where the competition does, will definitely face a though battle, something which was predicted too BTW. It appears the A380 will thus become a MUST HAVE for many large Asian airlines who want to be taken seriously in a few years.

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 7):
...and probably the 787 and the A350 will generate a similar. if not better flying experience.

I don't think so.

At least for the 787 we pretty much know for sure the levels of cabin noise will be substantially higher than on the A380. I suppose I don't need to link to the embarrassingly stupid remarks from Mr. Baseler on this topic, do I?
And the feeling of space the A380 comes with is something which likely can't be matched by either product either.
When looking into it, the so much liked features of the A380 all depend on its MASSIVE SIZE in one way or the other, so simply adopting the same tech on smaller planes won't do the trick. Just as for cars, there is no way you can make a small vehicle feel equally comfortable as a limousine.
 
Glareskin
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:50 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8):
I don't think so.

At least for the 787 we pretty much know for sure the levels of cabin noise will be substantially higher

Yes, but we also have to expect the pressure and humidity to be even more improved than the A380. Combined with a noise-cancelling headphone this will be at least similar if not a better effect. Of course the 787 cannot compensate the room in the A380 but to be honest I expect another positive effect from the lager windows plus the newest mood lighting. After all the 787 and the A350 will be from a newer generation.
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khobar
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:50 pm

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 7):
But is it only the first time "been there, done that" effect? For what you read in the trip reports the flying is a better experience in itself due to the roomier space, the remarkably lower noise levels, the better pressure and humidity.

From what I've read, the experience is very nice but also much like any other aircraft, except the lack of noise.

"C class seats pretty much same as the 77W though the curvature of the fuselage means the shelf (for newspapers, etc.) beside the TV screen on the 77W does not appear on the A380 (though window seats have storage bins which more than make up for the difference). Some people have reported the seats are wider on the A380 than the 77W - I couldn't tell any difference (though it may be true). The thing you will notice most about the cabin is the lack of noise - it is amazingly quiet!"

"Upstairs, it feels like an A340 and downstairs like a 747."

"Service was the usual SQ and I mean that with the highest compliments. The food was special but, I have to be honest and say the biz class food is usually pretty good so, while I liked the special menu for this flight, it was the same caliber as any flight (Dom champagne excepted - that was special)."

Interesting to note that on the SYD-SIN leg, pushback had been canceled twice, and that on the third time the ground crew requested pushback to the west to make it easier for the A380 to taxi out.

Also, it was reported the plane flew somewhat slowly, even with a 50 kmh tailwind - I wonder if this was done for the benefit of the pax. to make their ride last as long as possible? It was, after all, a very special time.

And lastly, one very nice feature that does seem to set the A380 apart is the lack of mechanical noise during ascent/descent. This may depend on where you sit - upper deck you don't get the usual whirring, clunks, etc. as the flaps are positioned. I welcome that as I dislike the sound of pumps, etc.

I suppose we'll know more in a few weeks.
 
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:15 pm

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 7):
probably the 787 and the A350 will generate a similar. if not better flying experience.

I dont think the passengers will remember it quite as much though, the 787 and A350 are very non descript as planes go, my mum couldnt tell the difference between the 787 and a 767 but she knew what the A380 was and even knew what i meant by the whale jet. The aviation buffs might say "oh look a 787" but everyone will say "but look at the A380 behind it" it has itsown look and i like that.

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astuteman
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:18 pm

Quoting FlashFlyGuy (Reply 6):
It would be interesting to know how crowded that gate area gets with people gawking at it...

The area between concourse E + F was pretty busy with "viewers" when I was there.....
As Changi has the X-ray equipment at the gate entrance, viewing at the gate area is difficult.

Quoting FlashFlyGuy (Reply 6):
You have to consider that you just about fall over this

It is HARD to miss the A380 at Changi......  biggrin 

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 7):
But is it only the first time "been there, done that" effect?

IMO SQ staff were talking up the A380 big time, and presumably will continue to do so for quite some time.
(As an aside, despite being a big fan of the A380, I was discomfited by the lack of loyalty shown to the SQ 747's by the crew of said aircraft, who did nothing but talk up the A380 - sad IMO, but inevitable, I suppose)
We were definitely "encouraged" to fly on it (and will be next month....  Smile )

Regards
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:27 pm

For the time being 9V SKA is the only A380 flying commercially in the whole world. So it is normal that there is an effect of curiosity about her and everybody going through Singapore airport will be trying to see her. This is probably the same in Sydney and it will certainly be the same at Heathrow once SIA starts regular A380 service to London.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 12):
It is HARD to miss the A380 at Changi...... biggrin

It will still be a while until Emirates, Qantas, Lufthansa and others get to fly their own Big Bus'ses.
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Burkhard
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 1):
I was amazed at the level of buzz being generated by the A380.

That is the difference between a real queen and all the starlets. Look at the British Queen - she generates buzz after 50 years still! Look at the Concorde, wherever it showed up, it generated buzz.

So did the 747 for decades, so will the A380. Will the public get used to it and find it boring? I think yes, at the very day Leahy has sold the 800th frame.
 
7e72004
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:39 pm

How quiet is the A380 in comparison with other aircraft?
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:57 pm

A rather subdude BBC reporter brought a sound-meter onboard and in cruise the Singapore Airlines Airbus A380 was operating at 82dB (decibels) inside the revolutionary and innovative cabin.
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 10):
This may depend on where you sit - upper deck you don't get the usual whirring, clunks, etc. as the flaps are positioned.

Interesting... I love these sounds... I guess that's a diagnosis in my case

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 9):
Of course the 787 cannot compensate the room in the A380 but to be honest I expect another positive effect from the lager windows plus the newest mood

Hell no. Despite the large windows, the 787 will be in many cases a cramped sucker. 9 across in this bird won't be anything to write mom about.
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AirframeAS
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:33 am

Quoting FlashFlyGuy (Reply 6):

Good point, but......at other airports around the world....ya know... still.....  Wink
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ER757
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting QantasHeavy (Thread starter):
I was born a few years after the 747 was rolled out, but it is great to see the public getting excited about aviation. Fathers/mothers pointing to the airplane and explaining to their children, children running to the glass and pointing/shouting "there it is!", serious-looking business people putting down their BlackBerries and walking to the glass and just gazing at the huge machine, people calling people on their mobile phones saying, "Hey I am sitting here looking out at the new A380!", airport staff getting their colleauges to take their picture with the A380 in the background.

Was so great to see men, women and children from a wide variety of cultures all sharing the same fascination. While I know that we in the forum give the general public little credit for understanding one type of airplane form the other, and aviation altogether (who are educated by a media which makes references to "Boeing dc-1011 air buses")... there is no doubt that people might get other aircraft confused, but think for the whale jet people will be able to confidently and accurately declare... "THAT is an A380!"

Very well stated! You've stirred memories for me as I was 14 when the 747 entered service and there was a very similar facination with the jumbo when she first started making apperances at airports around the world. There was no mistaking her for any other aircracft and people flocked to the gates to gaze upon her - back then there were no security checkpoints and anyone could walk right up to the gate areas. I remember going up to the obseravtion deck at ORD and seeing an NW 747 loading up and then pushing back. I will never forget the sight of it lifting into the air - I can imagine the A380 creates a similar sense of wonder for many, especially kids and airplane nuts like us. Thanks for sharing.
 
caljn
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:17 am

That is one ugly bird. Some here have referred to the A380 as the new queen of the skies. It will never replace the iconic design of the 747 in that regard. Bigger can be more functional, even economical but sadly in this case not more beautiful.
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 9):
Yes, but we also have to expect the pressure and humidity to be even more improved than the A380. Combined with a noise-cancelling headphone this will be at least similar if not a better effect.

Well.....Thats abit strange comparison that doesn't make sense to me.
Not to discredit the 787 which seems to be a very nice aircraft, but with even better noise-cancelling headphones and earplugs even a DC3 can be perceived as quiet or? At least the comparison has to be under similar conditions.
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:27 am

Quoting Caljn (Reply 20):
Bigger can be more functional, even economical but sadly in this case not more beautiful.

It can also be more impressive.

I watched the take-off from Singapore with a feeling that the enormous machine could never get off the ground - and when it did, it seemed so effortless, as if the sky was its natural home.

Then I watched the landing in Sydney and I was even more impressed - it seemed as light as a feather.

It was - for me - a considerable "wow!" I'm sorry if you miss that feeling, because it really was something to see.

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Prinair
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:44 am

It may be big, efficient, impressive and even ugly. The "wow" factor will go away the moment one crashes or has an accident. Not to be negative but after all it is a machine and one will eventually fail.
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting Prinair (Reply 23):
Not to be negative

It reads fairly negative to me.

And I'm not sure that I agree. I was flying on a 747 shortly after the Tenerife crash, and I still had a sense of "wow".

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tdscanuck
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting Prinair (Reply 23):
The "wow" factor will go away the moment one crashes or has an accident. Not to be negative but after all it is a machine and one will eventually fail.

True, but it's got a long way to go. Knock on wood, but the 777 is going on 10 years without a major incident. The A380 won't be "due" for a long time.

Tom.
 
Glareskin
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 21):
Well.....Thats abit strange comparison that doesn't make sense to me.
Not to discredit the 787 which seems to be a very nice aircraft, but with even better noise-cancelling headphones and earplugs even a DC3 can be perceived as quiet or? At least the comparison has to be under similar conditions.

It was just meant to say that there is more to comfort than noise. Noise can be compensated with nc-headphones, which most of the ferquent travellers use. But the 787 will come with a reduced cabin pressure and higher humidity wich will reduce jet lag and the tired, fuzzy feeling a lot of pax experience in the high-pressure dry cabin environment of todays aircraft.
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flashflyguy
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:06 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 12):
The area between concourse E + F was pretty busy with "viewers" when I was there.....
As Changi has the X-ray equipment at the gate entrance, viewing at the gate area is difficult.

Thanks, although I'm aware of the layout at SIN, including the gate the A380 uses (been through that one coming and going, lots of times). I was more interested in what the gate area is like for the gawkers in SYD. As you only have one security checkpoint after immigration, so anyone airside in departues is free to roam around all the gates in that pier.

The gate being used in SYD is not the best for viewing from public areas in the International terminal itself, as it is on the very end of the pier around the back. If aircraft are using gates along the pier between the terninal and gate 59, then the view is zero.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
Good point, but......at other airports around the world....ya know... still.....

Oh, I have no doubt that at other airports you will get the, as you say, "Now Tommy, that is a Super A380 made by Boeing!" Or "Thats a SUPER Airbus 747!" reaction....  rotfl 
 
slz396
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:20 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 22):
I watched the take-off from Singapore with a feeling that the enormous machine could never get off the ground - and when it did, it seemed so effortless, as if the sky was its natural home.

Then I watched the landing in Sydney and I was even more impressed - it seemed as light as a feather.

It was - for me - a considerable "wow!" I'm sorry if you miss that feeling, because it really was something to see.

You have worded what millions of neutral spectators have come to see and enjoy all over the world at every airport the A380 makes it appearance, so nothing to be sorry about really...

Quoting Caljn (Reply 20):
That is one ugly bird. It will never replace the iconic design of the 747 in that regard. Bigger can be more functional, even economical but sadly in this case not more beautiful.



Quoting Prinair (Reply 23):
It may be big, efficient, impressive and even ugly. The "wow" factor will go away the moment one crashes or has an accident. Not to be negative but after all it is a machine and one will eventually fail.

These 2 posters apparently have had to swallow a very bitter pill. Coming from a country where it matters greatly to be the biggest in every domain, it shows just how much it hurts them to see the iconic 747 being called "yesterday's best plane", "old technology" and "not good enough to be ever considered again, no matter under which form" by the leading airlines in the world...

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 26):
Noise can be compensated with nc-headphones.

Lovely idea!
I especially like the combination of ULH flying in an extra humid 787 cabin with noise cancelling 'ear warmers' on for 12 or more hrs just to be able to get some sleep!

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 26):
The 787 will come with a reduced cabin pressure and higher humidity which will reduce jet lag and the tired, fuzzy feeling a lot of pax experience in the high-pressure dry cabin environment of today's aircraft.

And of course these are features one immediately notices the moment one sits down, aren't they?

Arriving at the gate, you get a WOW feeling from seeing your A380 plane sitting at the gate.
Boarding the A380, you get your second WOW feeling from experiencing its spacious cabin, its roomy interior and its more comfortable seating throughout all cabins.
During taxiing you are slowly prepared for your third WOW feeling as you don't hear the engines, the flaps, or feel the plane taxi over put-holes in taxiways and during take-off you become totally speechless as the plane just takes to the sky without any of the usual noise and vibrations!
And it cruise... double WOW! Almost total tranquility for hours, beaten only by the moment the plane starts to decent and one can actually hear the wind blow!

Yep, I must say I definitely can't wait to fly on the 'revolutionary' 787, which looks just like a supersized Emb175 to me, and I am definitely going to be pushing my way up in the line to have some extra time on board to enjoy the fantastically spacious 9-abreast seating of economy class on my ULH point-to-point flight like 90% of all those who will travel on it, while hearing all the noises I am used to hearing before take off when the flaps are set, the plane taxies over a set of centre lights or the engines are spooled up, not to mention I will definitely be very reassured if the 787 makes as much noise as the notorious 777 on take of, because I really like to get continuous auditive confirmation of just how powerful its engines are. If I am then lucky and I got a window seat, I may try to fall asleep with my head against the wall and its larger window which is ice-cold by now after the first few hours have lapsed, so I now prop 2 plugs in my ears to cancel out some of the engine noise which I am hearing through the extra thin insulated walls.
And you want me to believe I will be feeling better after 12 hours on such a plane because the cabin was a tad more humid, while my neck hurts badly from falling asleep in such a noisy environment with my head against the ice cold (if I managed to get some sleep at all, that is?)
I can say you now I'd pass on such a flight any time! You can give me a conventional economy class experience in a slightly roomier and quieter cabin any time!
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:51 pm

While I think the A380 will be wonderful to fly on, I don't think one should assume the 787 (or A350) is going to be loud and uncomfortable.

When the A340 was introduced it was a new nice and quieter ride, also when 777 came along it was considered a comfortable, "fun" plane to fly. I remember being on Delta's first 777 flight into ATL and BA's first 777 out of DFW... there were ceremonies at both -- passengers and staff were very excited... and that is a great thing! 777 deliveries still get companies and passengers excited.

I have sat next to the big Trents twice this week... and yes the cross section of the wing and fuselage does make noise on the 777, especially when the leading edge flaps are down (although it does in most aircraft due to the air flow; MD-11 was really loud in that configuration ) and the 737-sized engines make a big rumble... but some people enjoy knowing there are huge motors pushing them through the sky. And the take-off whine and buzz of a 777 is a pretty cool (yes so is the A345/6). And to say the A380 won't boune around is not correct. The Airbus employee flight had moderate turbulence for the first portion of the flight and they were all confined to their seats -- just like any other airplane, turbulence is going to happen and create uncommanded movement of the aircraft -- that is just physics.

I am sure the A380 is quieter; Airbus does a good job making quiet cabins. However, I cannot imagine that someone sitting next to the forward wing would not hear the hydraulics, airflow over the massive wing and the take-off power being applied to the engines. Personally, I would love to hear those four monsters roar! You hear all of those things on the A340s and yet it is very quiet in the air so I son't think that is anything bad if you hear it on the A380.

I would go a little easy on the 787 bashing. Think some of your comments were a bit low. The 787 will have new, more advanced weather radar and huge photochromatic windows, etc., which will add some new pleasantries to passengers. The A350 will undoubtedly bring new benefits as well. Also, being crammed into a 787? Some airlines will turn the A380 into a flying cattle car, and some will make the 787 spacious and vise-versa.

While I think we should all enjoy the A380's roll-out, it is certainly no reason to be pre-judging the 787 or A-350. Let's just be happy that a bunch of new airframes will be filling the skies, the tarmacs and no doubt these forums.

Let's enjoy avaition and forgo the pettiness of "my plane can beat up your plane". A bit silly isn't it?

[Edited 2007-11-04 05:04:58]
 
Glareskin
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:55 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
Lovely idea!
I especially like the combination of ULH flying in an extra humid 787 cabin with noise cancelling 'ear warmers' on for 12 or more hrs just to be able to get some sleep!

No, I do not like the idea either. Again, I was merely pointing out that noise is a factor one can reduce.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
I can say you now I'd pass on such a flight any time! You can give me a conventional economy class experience in a slightly roomier and quieter cabin any time!

Whow, you really get aggressive about this! Before I've flown both new aircraft I am not making judgments like this. And for your information: I love the A380 and I prefer the A330/A340 over the 767/777.
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:27 pm

Quoting Caljn (Reply 20):
That is one ugly bird. Some here have referred to the A380 as the new queen of the skies. It will never replace the iconic design of the 747 in that regard.

Why don't you read some early 70's newspapers? I thing you will be surprised: nobody called the 747 a "pretty" plane. It was simply enormous - and, therefore, amazing.
In fact, many people called it a little bit "ugly"...
Come on, read it!

Quoting Prinair (Reply 23):
It may be big, efficient, impressive and even ugly. The "wow" factor will go away the moment one crashes or has an accident. Not to be negative but after all it is a machine and one will eventually fail.

This is the most "uncommentabe" thing I have ever read here on a-net - and I am here for some years now...

(But I can't resist: are you an aviation fan or some kind of juvenile cheerleader?)
Shame on you.

 Sad

DH
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Prinair
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:59 pm

Quote:
This is the most "uncommentabe" thing I have ever read here on a-net - and I am here for some years now...

(But I can't resist: are you an aviation fan or some kind of juvenile cheerleader?)
Shame on you.


Quote:
These 2 posters apparently have had to swallow a very bitter pill. Coming from a country where it matters greatly to be the biggest in every domain, it shows just how much it hurts them to see the iconic 747 being called "yesterday's best plane", "old technology" and "not good enough to be ever considered again, no matter under which form" by the leading airlines in the world

Perhaps you should take some time to read my profile. I have over 20 years of airline experience at airlines that use both Airbus and Boeing products and unlike the other "cheerleaders" and "Virtual Airline CEOs", my comments are objective and factual. Is the A380 not a machine? I think it is and eventually one of them will fail (unfortunately it is a fact of life, have other planes not had systems failures at one time or another?). As a machine it is a technological triumph (for now) but just like other aircraft that were just as exciting at one time, it will be superceded by whatever may be the next best aircraft to come out regardless of which company happens to be the manufacturer/builder.

[Edited 2007-11-04 12:00:49]
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:19 pm

Quoting Prinair (Reply 23):
The "wow" factor will go away the moment one crashes or has an accident.

More people have died in 747 accidents than in the September 11th terrorist attacks. Nevertheless, the "wow" factor for the 747 is still there.

Quoting PRINAIR (Reply 32):
my comments are objective and factual.

 rotfl 
 
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:40 pm

Quoting Caljn (Reply 20):
Bigger can be more functional, even economical but sadly in this case not more beautiful.

Yes, but we are talking about a product of engineers, not artists. In the realm of engineering, anything that is more functional and economic is more "beautiful" so to speak.

Quoting Prinair (Reply 23):
The "wow" factor will go away the moment one crashes or has an accident. Not to be negative but after all it is a machine and one will eventually fail.

Are you sure you work in the airline industry? You seem awful keen for a plane crash. Does your incredibly negative and sour attitude also apply to the 787?

Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair :shock: .
 
atnight
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:50 pm

Funny to see how some a.netters still talk about their own point of view of the A380's looks to somehow put it down.... I think it looks great and I personally love the A380, but I'm not making a propaganda about it, even though it was about time we needed a change...
Also, why would anyone here say that they are waiting for a crash so that the A380's "wow Factor" will die then? For someone "in the industry" to say such thing makes it sounds more of a cry to see the A380 go quickly down so that their pride won't be hurt for too long and thus the title of greatest commercial aircraft ever made be a thing of the past. What a pitty to think that way!
We finally have an airplane that has brought back the great spirit of flying and yet there are folks here who just cannot accept or live with that fact... How sad!
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:17 am

Are there any airlines that have ordered the A380 planning on using an all coach class configuration? I would love to see how that works...upwards of 800 people on the same flight  boggled 
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
Prinair
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:55 am

Quote:
Funny to see how some a.netters still talk about their own point of view of the A380's looks to somehow put it down.... I think it looks great and I personally love the A380, but I'm not making a propaganda about it, even though it was about time we needed a change...
Also, why would anyone here say that they are waiting for a crash so that the A380's "wow Factor" will die then? For someone "in the industry" to say such thing makes it sounds more of a cry to see the A380 go quickly down so that their pride won't be hurt for too long and thus the title of greatest commercial aircraft ever made be a thing of the past. What a pitty to think that way!
We finally have an airplane that has brought back the great spirit of flying and yet there are folks here who just cannot accept or live with that fact... How sad!

It seems that some people on this forum lack the capacity to properly interpret what others have posted...
I have not "put down" the A380 nor am I waiting for one to crash, I just made an observation that the aircraft is nothing but a complex machine and as such a machine that statistically sooner or later one will fail. This could happen to any machine (or in the case being mentioned here, any aircraft).

As far as the "great spirit of flying"...Airlines only care about profit and operating efficiency and the A380 has yet to prove itself as such despite all of the promises made by the manufacturer. Only time will tell.
PRINAIR : Puerto Rico International Airlines
 
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting PRINAIR (Reply 37):
Airlines only care about profit and operating efficiency and the A380 has yet to prove itself as such despite all of the promises made by the manufacturer.

I'm not an airline. I don't work for an airline.

I'm here because I am still in awe of flight, just as I have been from the first time I saw an aircraft leave the ground.

Actually, in my case, it was the water, not the ground, because I was brought at an Imperial Airways flying boat station. So I loved to see the Princess flying boat during its trial runs on the Solent, and I don't care that aircraft didn't meet it's manufacturers promises - except that it flew. And it was magnificent.

I come here for other reasons, partly for the information available, partly the gossip from people who do work for airlines - and partly just to share the love of aviation.

Now - I can discuss the business side of running an airline, I do it every day. I invest in airlines. My affection for one particular (US) airline in which I own shares is something of a joke among old timers here on a.net.

But in this thread, here - discussing "the wow" factor - I really don't care if the A380 makes money for its manufacturer or not. That's their problem. It surely isn't mine.

I am "wow"-ed by the majestic A380, just as I was "wow"-ed by the glorious 747 - and the 707 and the VC-10 and the Concorde and the Constellation and the Stratocruiser and the Hermes and the Argonaut and the IL-62 and countless others.

I had one of the most memorable flights of my long life on a DC-3.

And the Comet. Seeing that for the first time had an enormous "wow" factor - despite what happened later.

I grew up at a time when air crashes were far more common than they are today, and I am in awe of the technology that only has has made planes bigger and faster - but safer, too.

The day before my eighty year old grandmother flew for the first time in her life, a KLM Super-Constellation crashed in Ireland. She still flew - on a KLM Convair - the next day. She was petrified, she wouldn't open her eyes from praying to her maker for most of the flight - but then she did, and saw Amsterdam, her birthplace, from the air - and was totally "wow"-ed.

So you can claim to be "objective" as much as you like. I can only raise an eyebrow, because I don't think, at any time in my life, I have ever shrugged and said, of any aircraft, oh, well, it's a machine, it'll crash.

We all know it is possible. But a lot of us here dread that day, not just for the awful loss of life, but because some of our dreams of flight would crash with it.

mariner
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Prinair (Reply 23):
It may be big, efficient, impressive and even ugly. The "wow" factor will go away the moment one crashes or has an accident. Not to be negative but after all it is a machine and one will eventually fail.



Quoting PRINAIR (Reply 32):
Perhaps you should take some time to read my profile. I have over 20 years of airline experience at airlines that use both Airbus and Boeing products and unlike the other "cheerleaders" and "Virtual Airline CEOs", my comments are objective and factual. Is the A380 not a machine? I think it is and eventually one of them will fail (unfortunately it is a fact of life, have other planes not had systems failures at one time or another?). As a machine it is a technological triumph (for now) but just like other aircraft that were just as exciting at one time, it will be superceded by whatever may be the next best aircraft to come out regardless of which company happens to be the manufacturer/builder.



Quoting PRINAIR (Reply 37):
It seems that some people on this forum lack the capacity to properly interpret what others have posted...
I have not "put down" the A380 nor am I waiting for one to crash, I just made an observation that the aircraft is nothing but a complex machine and as such a machine that statistically sooner or later one will fail. This could happen to any machine (or in the case being mentioned here, any aircraft).

As far as the "great spirit of flying"...Airlines only care about profit and operating efficiency and the A380 has yet to prove itself as such despite all of the promises made by the manufacturer. Only time will tell.

Prinair,
I find your comments very interesting. I do not work for the airlines, just an engineer in a different industry. I do spend far too long sat in the tubes, just spent 30 hours going from BDL-SIN, so am a little tired writing this from the lounge over looking the 380 gate. You are quoting statistics, so need to know two things from you:

1) What statistics does your airline use for crash rates in its fleet, as you say "statistically sooner or later one will fail", you must have a formula, as that is what we engineers use - hard facts.
2) What airline do you work for, because if you come out with these comments here, then you don't seen too confident in this industry, and that must begin at home.

My money is on that you have a downer on the 380.

Mariner, nice reply, perhaps one day we will see your beloved Frontier with 380's, now that would be a fantastic tail!
 
col
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:19 am

The 380 has just arrived in SIN. I have seen the GE/PW prototype at BDL, but only from behind and distance. The SQ one just taxied past. It looks short and stubby, a stretched one may look better. The wing tip came pretty close to the 772 parked at gate E3, no more parking 773/744 down the alley between E and F, me thinks! The new era, a long time coming, is definitely here.

SQ are showing video of 380 on their flights - non 380, seen it on the 77W. They are certainly pushing it.
 
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 2):

SQ seems to have identified the potential of this plane correctly: not only does it offer stellar CASM, but also is it a true game changer: a must have for airlines in Asia.

The "game changer" could also be the one which helps to open new routes and add more frequencies while offering "stellar" CASM, too.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8):
People are actually willing to step somewhat out of their way to fly on this plane and since the A380 has very favourable CASM numbers too, ticket prices will likely not be a game stopper, so the 2 combined mean an airline operating the A380 has a clear asset over the competition!

No wonder many travelers are willing to fly the A380 as soon as possible, I would do the same if my travel plans allowed it in the near future. It's more about enthusiasm and excitement about a new type entering the market rather than practical issues.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8):
Those who don't operate it on routes where the competition does, will definitely face a though battle, something which was predicted too BTW. It appears the A380 will thus become a MUST HAVE for many large Asian airlines who want to be taken seriously in a few years.

It's all about economics - and adding a new type for a handful of routes may be not enough for numerous airlines. It's probably more profitable to standardize the fleet around two smaller widebody types which can be used flexibly throughout the network. Suites and other premium products can also be installed on other aircraft.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8):
At least for the 787 we pretty much know for sure the levels of cabin noise will be substantially higher than on the A380. I suppose I don't need to link to the embarrassingly stupid remarks from Mr. Baseler on this topic, do I?

The whole cabin noise discussion is ridiculous - it's simply far from reality. If passengers were "oh-so-concerned" about cabin noise, the "oh-so-loud" 777 wouldn't have crushed the "oh-so-quiet" competition in sales. The A380's quiter cabin will only play a role in marketing departments after carriers have ordered the plane for economic reason.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8):
And the feeling of space the A380 comes with is something which likely can't be matched by either product either.

Where's the space revolution on SIA's bird?

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8):
Just as for cars, there is no way you can make a small vehicle feel equally comfortable as a limousine.

That was true maybe 15 years ago.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8):
When looking into it, the so much liked features of the A380 all depend on its MASSIVE SIZE in one way or the other, so simply adopting the same tech on smaller planes won't do the trick.

The trick is that airlines can offer similar products on smaller planes which are much more flexible.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
I especially like the combination of ULH flying in an extra humid 787 cabin with noise cancelling 'ear warmers' on for 12 or more hrs just to be able to get some sleep!

We all know how it feels after a long flight in today's cabins' dry atmosphere. The 787 cabin will not be "extra humid", but simply more humid, therefore more natural. And I'm not sure which type of "ear warmers" you use, but I haven't had problems with head-phones yet.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
Arriving at the gate, you get a WOW feeling from seeing your A380 plane sitting at the gate.

Excuse me? How many premium travelers (not the enthusiasts flying on discount Eco tickets) care about that?

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
Boarding the A380, you get your second WOW feeling from experiencing its spacious cabin, its roomy interior and its more comfortable seating throughout all cabins.

Are you talking about the next generation of SIA interiors? Something which can't be installed on smaller widebodies? Maybe a minigolf court?  Wink

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
During taxiing you are slowly prepared for your third WOW feeling as you don't hear the engines, the flaps, or feel the plane taxi over put-holes in taxiways and during take-off you become totally speechless as the plane just takes to the sky without any of the usual noise and vibrations!

Definitely exciting - but I'm an enthusiast, you are and many others here - however, the important pax who make airline operations profitable most likely don't care much. And even if so, the excitement is over after a few flights.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
And it cruise... double WOW! Almost total tranquility for hours, beaten only by the moment the plane starts to decent and one can actually hear the wind blow!

See above. Nice side effect, but what counts is economics. Airlines don't need to buy planes because their premium customers want to hear the wind blow.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
Yep, I must say I definitely can't wait to fly on the 'revolutionary' 787, which looks just like a supersized Emb175 to me, and I am definitely going to be pushing my way up in the line to have some extra time on board to enjoy the fantastically spacious 9-abreast seating of economy class on my ULH point-to-point flight like 90% of all those who will travel on it, while hearing all the noises I am used to hearing before take off when the flaps are set, the plane taxies over a set of centre lights or the engines are spooled up, not to mention I will definitely be very reassured if the 787 makes as much noise as the notorious 777 on take of, because I really like to get continuous auditive confirmation of just how powerful its engines are.

So that's your personal preferrence - which is, however, a totally irrelevant view for the world's airlines, considering pure sales numbers of the aircraft you are talking about.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
If I am then lucky and I got a window seat, I may try to fall asleep with my head against the wall and its larger window which is ice-cold by now after the first few hours have lapsed, so I now prop 2 plugs in my ears to cancel out some of the engine noise which I am hearing through the extra thin insulated walls.

Don't worry, you can avoid all that horror - just fly the A380. It may not fly to the destination you want to go to, but hey - better than ending like a deaf snowman!  Wink  Wink

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
And you want me to believe I will be feeling better after 12 hours on such a plane because the cabin was a tad more humid, while my neck hurts badly from falling asleep in such a noisy environment with my head against the ice cold (if I managed to get some sleep at all, that is?)

Funny. I have had many 777 flights and even slept without noise-cancelling headphones. My impression is that numerous people simply don't have anough flying experience on certain types and therefore exaggerate simply based on biased pro-A or pro-B views.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:22 am

It's been over 35 years since the last "largest commercial airliner ever" entered service. The news has been all over it the way they never were for the 777 or something like that. The average person cannot relate to "largest twinjet". They can relate to "largest ever".
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
slz396
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:23 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 41):
The trick is that airlines can offer similar products on smaller planes which are much more flexible and have 'stellar' CASM too.

No they can't.

That self proclaimed 'game changer' of yours needs a cattle class configuration to offer 'stellar' CASM.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 41):
Where's the space revolution on SIA's bird?

You must be the only one on A.net who hasn't looked at the interior pictures yet!
Can't stand the sight maybe?

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 41):
Are you talking about the next generation of SIA interiors? Something which can't be installed on smaller widebodies?

Let's have the A380 F-suites on your game changer and see where it puts its CASM, shall we?
Oh, and while we are at it, revert to a normal 8 abreast economy please.
How many pax are we talking about then? 150 or so?
Great CASM, I am sure!
NOT!

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 41):
Nice side effect, but what counts is economics.

Economics before comfort, I can agree with you on that.
The 787 makes use of all the newest technologies, but relies even more heavily on its slightly wider fuselage, allowing it to carry 9 abreast in a very cramped economy configuration! THIS is the only real game changing feature of the 787.
Of course, the problem for the airlines is that in order to make use of the full abilities of the 'game changing 787', they must win the hart and mind of people: 'Oh well, we don't need all that comfort really; less is still fine and although our seat may be cramped, our comfort is at a different level which doesn't take up any space: that of the humidity'.

Well maybe people will buy it, but if they can get more real physical comfort for the same price, they definitely will not mind. The A380 manages to do just that! I'd say that is truly changing the game.
 
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 43):
That self proclaimed 'game changer' of yours needs a cattle class configuration to offer 'stellar' CASM.

First of all, I said the "game changer" COULD BE the one...(...). See above. It's not "my game changer" - read carefully and keep away from personal A vs B issues.

Which aircraft turns out to be a true game changer is still not certain. However, sales numbers already indicate a trend.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 43):
You must be the only one on A.net who hasn't looked at the interior pictures yet!

What I see are products which could and will be installed on other types, too. You don't need an A380 to offer suites, you don't need an A380 to offer wide C class seats. And the Eco class on SIA's A380s is what many have expected - not much different.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 43):
Let's have the A380 F-suites on your game changer and see where it puts its CASM, shall we?

Just as last time when we met here to dicuss the issue you fail to see the big picture - airlines don't just compare costs on certain routes (which can fill the big bird all-year round), but also cost effects throughout the whole network. The A380 may have CASM advantages on certain routes, but standardizing on smaller types which can be used more flexibly may be more profitable in the end.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 43):
Oh, and while we are at it, revert to a normal 8 abreast economy please.
How many pax are we talking about then? 150 or so?

Have airlines in general ever cared really much about Eco class?

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 43):
The 787 makes use of all the newest technologies, but relies even more heavily on its slightly wider fuselage, allowing it to carry 9 abreast in a very cramped economy configuration! THIS is the only real game changing feature of the 787.

The combination of size and range opens countless new long-haul markets - not to forget about CASM advantages over today's models.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 43):
Well maybe people will buy it, but if they can get more real physical comfort for the same price, they definitely will not mind. The A380 manages to do just that! I'd say that is truly changing the game.

Expect the (few) new features on the A380 to be introduced on other types, too. Then, you have just a larger bird with great CASM as long as you can fill it on the world's trunk routes.


PH
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:40 am

Had to go to Sydney for the day for work and as we rode the rough winds down to the runway landing early at 9:10 AM, the SQ 380 was holding short waiting for us to land so got to see a top/front view up close.

Have been waiting to see an A380 since it rolled out of the hangar and had not seen one until this week... and yet now have seen it four times this week! Verry happy yet sad I did not have a camera.

As a side note about rides... credit to the QF crews on the MEL-SYD flights today. We have had outrageous winds and the 767s plowed through the chop beautifully. Both were GE-powered ERs and we had 1/3 runway take-offs with what felt like a fantastic vertical speed -- great ride! Sydney can be a real hassle when you get sequenced out low and slow to the South when the winds are kicking up... you get slung around at 4 or 5,000 feet for a long time.

Looks like Sam Chui and some other Anet photographers got a good interior tour on the 26th!
 
astuteman
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 41):
The whole cabin noise discussion is ridiculous - it's simply far from reality

Issues like this are always a matter of opinion, but FWIW, having just disembarked an SQ 777, I can tell you I found the level of interference that the aircraft noise made to my enjoyment of the IFE most irritating - and in a way it wasn't on the SQ 747 we flew for the previous leg of our journey.
The passengers around us were of a like mind - it wasn't just me.
This isn't just a case of "put some earplugs in" and forget it. I struggled to hear the IFE clearly. As IFE becomes more sophisticated, and more marketed, that's an issue, IMO

You're right that most passengers don't realise that there may be quieter options. In many cases there aren't quieter options. The A380 may be about to change that (not because it's uiet per se, but because of the marketing..)

The discussion IMO is far from ridiculous, based on this week's experience (a shame too, cos the seating itself was very comfortable, as was the flight generally)

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 41):
Excuse me? How many premium travelers (not the enthusiasts flying on discount Eco tickets) care about that?

From Thursday's experience at Changi, an awful lot of them, and flying on an awful lot of different carriers too, not just SQ.
I wouldn't underestimate the "wow" factor the A380 has created - at Changi at least.
How long, or whether, the "wow" factor will remain, is something the future will tell us, but it is unquestionably there in this particular neck of the woods just now.

Regards
 
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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 46):
The discussion IMO is far from ridiculous, based on this week's experience (a shame too, cos the seating itself was very comfortable, as was the flight generally)

The 777 is noisier but it hasn't yet seriously interfered with using the IFE (e.g. EK's ICE on different 777s) on my flights. And let's face it - premium pax sit in the section which is clearly quieter on any aircraft, even on the 777. What's ridiculous is the hype about the noise on this forum - sales figures show what counts for carriers: money, money, money - not complaints by Eco pax about noise differences.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 46):
How long, or whether, the "wow" factor will remain, is something the future will tell us, but it is unquestionably there in this particular neck of the woods just now.

Considering SQ's and Airbus' marketing I'm not surprised about the hype. But it's very likely it will all slow down.


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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:07 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 47):
But it's very likely it will all slow down.

That may be true. But the OP was talking about his experience, now.

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RE: The A380 "wow Factor" At Changi This Week

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:51 am

Gosh doesn't the 380 raise emotions!

As so many people have said it will be the punters who decide. Certainly (with one aircraft flying) punters are choosing to fly on the A380. It maybe a short lived thing. It may last 35 years like the Jumbo. If it is the latter.Then for hub to hub high density routes the A380 will be the new "black". Looking at the sales patterns so far this is already happening on the Asian routes.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if in the future (they have no plans or aircraft) if (say) BA put an A380 on one or two of its busiest US routes (NY or LA) at the most popular times. Now if punters chose to "swap" aircraft for the extra aspects of A380 comfort as previously described - now that would put the cat amongst the pigeons!