CXfirst
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When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:54 am

When will SQ get the A330's they leased from Airbus? Any announcements on which routes they will use? Will they use the classes that the A380/77W use (not expecting suites though) or the skybed, or the older recline style or generic Airbus seats? IFE? How long will they be leased?

Thanks.

-CXfirst
 
OceansWorld
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:59 am

Quoting CXfirst (Thread starter):
When will SQ get the A330's they leased from Airbus?

Deliveries are expected from early 2009 till late 2010.
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:22 am

Will these be replacements for the777As? Let's hope they do not put their tired old regional 777A interior into their nice new 330s!

Would imagine SQ would make them a nice region business class. Thai reconfigured their 777As to have a slightly less spacious "space bed" type seat they have on their new ERs. WOuld hope SQ would install a less fancy version of thie Space Bed.

Would be these will serve BKK, Manila, KUL, DPS, PER, ADL and maybe BNE at first. Just a guess!!!

Are they getting -300s or -200s?
 
FCKC
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:48 am

They will get A330-300s.No 200s.
 
AA7295
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:51 am

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 2):
Would be these will serve BKK, Manila, KUL, DPS, PER, ADL and maybe BNE at first. Just a guess!!!

I hope not! Everytime I have flown SQ BNE-SIN the plane has been jam-packed full. I don't understand why they don't put a 773 on the route or a 77W. EK manage to place a 77W on the BNE-SIN-DXB route.

Also, I much prefer the 772 than the 333 aircraft. I feel its much quieter and the pressure control is better.
 
columba
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:00 am

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 2):
Will these be replacements for the777As?

Seems likely range and capacity wise the A330 would fit perfectly
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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Qatara340
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:33 am

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 4):
Also, I much prefer the 772 than the 333 aircraft. I feel its much quieter and the pressure control is better.

Its actually the opposite. The A333 is quiter, and what pressure control are you talking about?
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
LY777
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:45 am

I agree with AA7295; maybe the A333 is quieter, but the ride on a 777 is much better than on a A330; plus the powerful take-off and the spaciousness of the cabin...
Flown:717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, D8,D10,L1011, A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388
 
AA7295
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 6):
The A333 is quiter, and what pressure control are you talking about?

My ears don't pop as bad on the 77A as they do on the 333. I've only experienced JQ & CX's 333 so it could just be their planes. I'm guessing ear popping has something to do with cabin pressurization control?
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:03 pm

777s are typically drier cabins. For some that is good, but most prefer the more humid cabins for long flights.

The 777 flies "differently" and has a different feel to it than the 330s. I think it is the wing design. In smooth air I find the 330 much quieter but in turbulence the nose seems to swing a lot more. Had an EK pilot next to me one day when we were really getting blown around and I mentioned the nose seems to slip a lot on the 330. He said it was jsut the way it flies and that there is a lot of sway in the front end. Feels like much more yaw in the 330s but less in the 340s.

I am not a aeronaughtical physisict but do ride 747s/767s/777s and A33/4/5/6 a lot and I have found that in clear air turbulence the 777 will shake a little but keep the nose pointing true, where the 330 floats/drifts and the nose moves left to right more. I do prefer the 777 over the 330 when it gets bumpy... also like the 340s and the 747. Four engines/thrust points seem to balance the plane better. Just my opinion.
 
columba
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:07 pm

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 9):
Four engines/thrust points seem to balance the plane better. Just my opinion.

So you will love to fly on the A380  Wink
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:21 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 2):
Will these be replacements for the777As?

Seems likely range and capacity wise the A330 would fit perfectly

...only problem with that is that SQ doesn't actually operate 772As. Just derated 772ERs that they, for whatever inane reason, like to refer to as 772As.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
asianguy767
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:34 pm

The A330s are expected to be delivered Nov/Dec 08..EIS is Jan09..planned deployment is short to medium haul flights..as the fleet will be leased, all the seats are catalogue ie they will not be anything on currently owned fleet.
 
BRxxx
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:51 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 11):
Just derated 772ERs that they, for whatever inane reason, like to refer to as 772As.

Does that mean that it has less range or is there more to that?
Flown on:A320,A332,A333,B737,B738,B763,B744,B77W,B773,E175,E190,MD90,MD11
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:27 pm

Quoting BRxxx (Reply 13):
Does that mean that it has less range


Yes, but only because the airline wants it to be that way.

Quoting BRxxx (Reply 13):
or is there more to that?

Indeed.

All of SQ's 772s are inherently the same. However, only their 9V-SV* series are operated at 656,000lb MTOWs with the Trent892-17; thus enabling them to take higher weights, further distances. Those are the aircraft (obviously) used on their intercontinental longhauls.

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The rest of their 772s feature engines whose thrust has been electronically limited, and their MTOWs restricted by paperwork. The benefit is that it costs less to operate and land these aircraft. The penalty is that their payload capability and range are artificially stunted. These are the 9V-SQ* and 9V-SR* series aircraft.

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If, however, SQ ever saw the business case to do so, they could PIP the engines, recertify the MTOWs, and op the SQ* and SR* series on any routes the SV* series do currently. Couldn't do that to a real 772A.
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slz396
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:51 pm

I wouldn't call turning the unwanted 772ERs into home-made 772As insane, I'd say it is just the best way to rectify the unfavourable situation. What is insane is that SQ ever bought those planes in the first place.

Rather than ditch the A340 order and replace them with 772ER of which some were subsequently downgraded to wannabe 772As which are now going to be quietly replaced by A333s again, SQ should have made live easier for all and simply converted the A343s order into A333s.
 
Robbie86
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:32 pm

May be offtopic but, does anyone know if SQ will start service to ARN?
 
kaitak744
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:44 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 15):
Rather than ditch the A340 order and replace them with 772ER of which some were subsequently downgraded to wannabe 772As which are now going to be quietly replaced by A333s again, SQ should have made live easier for all and simply converted the A343s order into A333s.

The A330-300 is only an interm solution. The regional 777s are actually being replaced by A350s/787s.

At the time, SQ ditched the MD-11 and went for the A340-300, and then went for the 777-200ER. They did quite thorough evaluations of all 3 makers' options, and they chose the 777-200ER. There is obviously something about the 777 they liked.
 
trex8
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:04 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 17):
At the time, SQ ditched the MD-11 and went for the A340-300, and then went for the 777-200ER. They did quite thorough evaluations of all 3 makers' options, and they chose the 777-200ER. There is obviously something about the 777 they liked.

it was hardly a contemporaneous evaluation, IIRC it was more like they chose the MD11 but it was falling short during testing so they ditched that order and went with the A343 which in service wasn't quite up to their expectations and they dropped those for the 772ER
 
jacobin777
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 15):
I wouldn't call turning the unwanted 772ERs into home-made 772As insane

...the only thing "insane" in your comment is calling the B772ER's "unwanted".. sarcastic 
"Up the Irons!"
 
slz396
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:32 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
the only thing "insane" in your comment is calling the B772ER's "unwanted".

Is it?

Then why is more than half the fleet turned into home-made 772As and kicked off the route network so swiftly and silently for more efficient A333s as soon as the first (half) opportunity for it arises???

It should be noted SQ phases out their home-made 772As not for a plane from a generation later like the 787 or the A350, but already for a plane which was around when they placed the order for the 772!

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 17):
At the time, SQ ditched the MD-11 and went for the A340-300, and then went for the 777-200ER. They did quite thorough evaluations of all 3 makers' options, and they chose the 777-200ER. There is obviously something about the 777 they liked.

Yes, they went from MD-11 to A343 to 772ER.
At each switch SQ looked like having made the right choice, however, in hindsight, SQ should have spared itself from the last switch and simply converted their Airbus order to A333s..
They could then have ordered real 772ERs or just the 77W when it showed up and have flown the A330/77W combo they now so urgently want already years ago then!

Unless you need the extra range of the 772ER, the plane has shown to be greatly inferior to the A330, but sadly SQ realized it too late and thus missed out on the unique opportunity finding itself stuck with the 'all-round' 777, rather than the more optimised A330 for its inter-Asian routes.

SQ realises this and thus decided to take the first oportunity to get rid of all those 772ERs it doesn't want nor need.
Anyway, they shouldn't be ashamed, other airlines have stated they have misread the capabilities of the A330 too, and are now 'stuck' with the 772: British Airways comes to mind.

[Edited 2007-11-04 23:49:52]
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:04 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 15):
What is insane is that SQ ever bought those planes in the first place.

SIA also ordered the A380 - but I guess that was a wise decision, right?  Yeah sure

Seriously, SIA simply had the option to use one type for different missions. It's very likely they evaluated all other options and rated it more economic to order only 772s and not a combo.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 15):
Rather than ditch the A340 order and replace them with 772ER of which some were subsequently downgraded to wannabe 772As which are now going to be quietly replaced by A333s again, SQ should have made live easier for all and simply converted the A343s order into A333s.

How are they quietly replaced? And btw - how in the world would an A333 have been able to fly some of SIA's A343 long-hauls? It's also well-know that SIA always tries to keep a young fleet, therefore it's not unusual to replace aircraft after 10-12 years. SIA has most likely evaluated all options again and now rated an A333 solution to be more economic - note all the changes in the biz over the last 10 years. Different times, different fleet decisions.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):
Then why is more than half the fleet turned into home-made 772As and kicked off the route network so swiftly and silently for more efficient A333s

See above. Silence? What about all the reports and press releases?

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):
At each switch SQ looked like having made the right choice, however, in hindsight, SQ should have spared itself from the last switch and simply converted their Airbus order to A333s..

A type not capable of operating on all of SIA's 772 missions.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):
Unless you need the extra range of the 772ER, the plane has shown to be greatly inferior to the A330, but sadly SQ realized it too late and thus missed out on the unique opportunity finding itself stuck with the 'all-round' 777, rather than the more optimised A330 for its inter-Asian routes.

The 777 offered flexibility which the A333 couldn't. And with low fuel prices many years ago, savings by standardizing on one type most likely outhweighed disadvantages by using heavier 777s on regional routes.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):
Anyway, they shouldn't be ashamed, other airlines have stated they have misread the capabilities of the A330 too, and are now 'stuck' with the 772: British Airways comes to mind.

Sure, all these airlines ordering 777s must have been oh-so-wrong by chosing a type with additional payload, capacity and range for their needs...  Yeah sure


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
mandala499
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:40 am

Those stunted 772s are "unwanted" ??? WTH? It's not as insane as it looks!

SQ's 777 fleet is divided into:
14 x -SQ* = 3 class, 84klbs engines
16 x -SR* = 2 class, 84klbs engines
15 x -SV* = 3 class, 92klbs engines
(11 + 4?) x-SW* = 3 class 773ER
12 x -SY* = 3 class 773 standard

The SQ* series (cn 67 - 487) are on average older than the SR* (144 - 449) and SV* (350 - 471), SV* being the newest... but SQ* having the newest 772 in their fleet.

It all looks "silly" at first by stunting it down and then seeking to replace them with 330s. But...

The SR* series are mainly to replace the 310s, flying 2 class sectors on shorter and low yielding routes...

SQ* series has the ORIGINAL SQ requirements. A 3 class mid size to fly anything from short to long sectors... with the 343 to fly the longer sectors (and transpac)

With the 343s gone and SQ series not having the biggest MTOW available, SV series were put in to totally replace the 343 requirement... and are put into the longer sectors.

Some of the SQ* series are now getting worn and old, the SR* series will gain the cycles faster than the rest of the fleet.

When the time comes, the older SQ and SR series will be replaced with the 330s pending delivery of the 350/787... Perhaps some SR series will be converted back to 3 class... and the SV series will stay until the 350/787 comes.

The 333s will definitely cover the SR* series mission profile.

If I remember correctly, SQ didn't get a good deal on the 333 until recently (perhaps given a bargain to pay off the delays in the 380).

It's not as silly as it seems now does it? And they don't want to end up being stuck with a plane for more than 15 years, like they ended up doing with the 744 and 313s...

They went for all 772 for the sake of commonality, now why does that sound silly when doing it with a Boeing when everyone else goes for 330/340 combo for commonality? Did anyone say SQ was silly when they decided to use the 343 for short haul too? Heck, they've been flying the 744s for about 20 years doing short and long haul (even that SIN-KUL sector), and still does fly them to Jakarta!

Quote:
Unless you need the extra range of the 772ER, the plane has shown to be greatly inferior to the A330, but sadly SQ realized it too late and thus missed out on the unique opportunity finding itself stuck with the 'all-round' 777, rather than the more optimised A330 for its inter-Asian routes.

It's not that simple. Have a look at MH's 330/772 combo ops, each one has a particular mission despite similar lengths between several sectors. For them, the 333 is the people mover (ie: best for low yield high volume routes), and the 772 is the premium catcher (higher yield routes or those shorter routes with heavy cargo loads).

Now back to SQ's 772s... Just have a look at their route distributions... Anything above 2hrs is what the real missions are, anything less is just to fill the damn hours.

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
brightcedars
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:14 am

I'm sure all those de-rated B772s can and will be pimped back by SQ prior to them leaving the fleet and being sold/leased to a new operator. Which then will show their true value over any real B772A. The original B772A is a cow, these tweaked B772Bs have retained a high reselling value and that is an important part of the original decision to order.

SQ did make the right strategic decision at the time. And they are making the right strategic decision today.
I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:32 am

Gotta say SQ generally makes good decisions. Wonder what will happen to their niche 345s though. At the time they made sense, but I think they will opt for commonality and get some 777LRs. At least the 330s will be similar, but still 5 air frames in a fleet like SQ is a bit awkward if you do have another option which matches your fleet profile.

330s will do well for them as an interim step and no doubt the deal was right. Too bad they are getting stock interiors, but economically that makes sense for regional routes... sorry Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane looks like you are staying "regional" with SQ!
 
Danny
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:50 am

Quoting CXfirst (Thread starter):
When will SQ get the A330's from Airbus?

4 in 2008, 5 in 2009 and remaining in 2010.
 
sq452
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:00 am

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 4):
Also, I much prefer the 772 than the 333 aircraft. I feel its much quieter and the pressure control is better.

Good, I thought I was crazy when I thought Airbus A330's/A320's pressurize funny (especially the A321's)...now I know I am not alone!!! 777's are much more comfortable as well I think.
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:09 pm

Did SQ configure some 777s from the original batch to be used for long hauls -- or were the "space bed" 2 class 777s delivered new with their respective interiors? I had thought it was the latter.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 15):

Rather than ditch the A340 order and replace them with 772ER of which some were subsequently downgraded to wannabe 772As which are now going to be quietly replaced by A333s again, SQ should have made live easier for all and simply converted the A343s order into A333s.

Course, if you'd actually pay attention to the timeline, you'll notice that the A340s were replaced by the 9V-SV* series, which fly routings no A333 can accomplish.

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 24):
Gotta say SQ generally makes good decisions.

...the 757, A310, M11, and A343 might disagree with you  Wink

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 24):
but I think they will opt for commonality and get some 777LRs.

Doubtful at this point. The A345s are essentially worthless on the market, and SQ has stated that despite the 772LR's superiority; even its capabilities (combined with commonality) are insufficient to generate enough revenue (and savings) worth justifying both the extreme depreciation hit they'd take upon ridding themselves of those disgusting quadjets, as well as the high acquisition cost of the longer ranged twin.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
jacobin777
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:00 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 21):

Seriously, SIA simply had the option to use one type for different missions. It's very likely they evaluated all other options and rated it more economic to order only 772s and not a combo.

 checkmark .....

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 21):

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):
Then why is more than half the fleet turned into home-made 772As and kicked off the route network so swiftly and silently for more efficient A333s

See above. Silence? What about all the reports and press releases?

 checkmark 

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):

Unless you need the extra range of the 772ER, the plane has shown to be greatly inferior to the A330

 rotfl  sarcastic 

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):

SQ realises this and thus decided to take the first oportunity to get rid of all those 772ERs it doesn't want nor need.
Anyway, they shouldn't be ashamed, other airlines have stated they have misread the capabilities of the A330 too, and are now 'stuck' with the 772: British Airways comes to mind.

Oh...I see...do you have any proof of this?

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 21):
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):
Anyway, they shouldn't be ashamed, other airlines have stated they have misread the capabilities of the A330 too, and are now 'stuck' with the 772: British Airways comes to mind.

Sure, all these airlines ordering 777s must have been oh-so-wrong by chosing a type with additional payload, capacity and range for their needs...  sarcastic 

PlaneHunter...don't let the fact the B777's have sold over 1,000 frames get in the way of a good argument... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
gigneil
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:21 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):
Then why is more than half the fleet turned into home-made 772As and kicked off the route network so swiftly and silently for more efficient A333s as soon as the first (half) opportunity for it arises???

I'm sorry, sometimes you make sense and I enjoy that you're so blatantly pro one thing or the other because it drives other people crazy, but what the hell are you talking about?

They downgraded planes to fly regional routes because, well duh, they needed the capacity. Now they're going to upgrade those planes back to fly longer hauls.

Duh?

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):
It should be noted SQ phases out their home-made 772As not for a plane from a generation later like the 787 or the A350, but already for a plane which was around when they placed the order for the 772!

The A330-300 could barely fly from Singapore to the next island when it first came out, and they had a fleet of A310s at that time to fly those routes that needed to be replaced.

In the 1990s, wasting fuel on flying downrated 777s on regional routes was a perfectly acceptable practice. With oil approaching $100 a barrel, it isn't.

Times, people, and businesses change. Get with it.

NS
 
WINGS
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:44 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 28):
Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 24):
Gotta say SQ generally makes good decisions.

...the 757, A310, M11, and A343 might disagree with you

Please do elaborate more in regards to the A310-300.

From my understanding Singapore Airlines operated a total of 23 A313's, for a period of nearly 20 years. How exactly does that translate into a bad decision?

Have to agree with you about the 757, MD11 and A343, although SQ did make a smart decision in opting for the A343 vs the MD11.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:48 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 31):
From my understanding Singapore Airlines operated a total of 23 A313's, for a period of nearly 20 years. How exactly does that translate into a bad decision?

Why do you assume that their operating of those aircraft, was the bad decision being referred to here?

In regard to the A310s, SQ got rid of them "too soon" only to find (and interestingly enough, publicly admit) that the replacement they chose was overkill in several markets... thus rendering yet other questionable fleet-related decision for that airline.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
WINGS
Posts: 2312
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:02 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 32):
Why do you assume that their operating of those aircraft, was the bad decision being referred to here?

I assumed the most logical theory, but it seems that your theory was rather the opposite.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 32):
In regard to the A310s, SQ got rid of them "too soon" only to find (and interestingly enough, publicly admit) that the replacement they chose was overkill in several markets... thus rendering yet other questionable fleet-related decision for that airline.

What I find more interesting about the history of the A310-200/300 is that, it managed to outsell its closet rival the 767-200/ER.

Its a real shame that Airbus did not opt to rework the A330 fuselage/wing to cater to the needs of those airlines that do not require the capacity/range of the A332/3.  Sad

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:45 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 33):
I assumed the most logical theory, but it seems that your theory was rather the opposite.

...you still f^cked up by assuming, no cutesy nonsensical statement will change that. Deal.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 33):
Its a real shame that Airbus did not opt to rework the A330 fuselage/wing to cater to the needs of those airlines that do not require the capacity/range of the A332/3

They wanted to, lest you forget the A330Lite and in particular the (unofficially dubbed) A305 proposals? Airlines wanted no part that one.
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WINGS
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:00 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 34):

...you still f^cked up by assuming, no cutesy nonsensical statement will change that. Deal.

Had you been more clear in your initial statement, then I'm sure i would have not f*cked up like you kindly pointed out.  Wink

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 34):

They wanted to, lest you forget the A330Lite and in particular the (unofficially dubbed) A305 proposals? Airlines wanted no part that one.

I'm well aware of those projects, although they never passed the drawing board. I suspect that the A330Lite was put on hold because of 9-11 and the aviation industry downturn, when the industry eventually picked up, it was too little too late.

Even the A332F program was put on hold after 9-11 and only in 2007 was it officially launched.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:10 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 35):
Had you been more clear in your initial statement, then I'm sure i would have not f*cked up like you kindly pointed out.

...I'm not to blame for your choice to assume, dude.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 35):
although they never passed the drawing board.

Well, yeah, why would they have. No one showed any real interest in even the proposals.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 24):
Gotta say SQ generally makes good decisions.

...the 757, A310, M11, and A343 might disagree with you

[sorry not sure I know how to paste the quotes properly]



OK, fair enough ConcordeBoy I see your point, but was the 757 and 310 a mistake for SQ given the times and context then -- in terms of their position growing in the market and what was available to them? The 757 would have seemed a good route starter/prover. They had 737s before they were an airline with the global iconic status they have today.Once Singapore became a hub people were happy flying through in order to fly SQ (even when another carrier might have offered a non-stop flight) they needed more capacity... as one would think O&D at Changi is becoming a decreasing % of SQ's operations.

They did not actually get the MD-11, right? So perhaps less of a mistake than than the companies who took delivery and then were dissapointed by performance. At the time the 343 gave them the range in a sub-747 capacity range. When they ordered those were there even any Pacific ETOPs? So if they did not want the MD-11 and needed more than a twin jet smaller than a 747, the 343 was really the only choice (OK no IL-96s!). China Southern flew the first P-ETOPS on the CAN-LAX runs... I think that was in late '97 or '98. SQ had already had their 343s. And didn't SQ dump the 343s (leased or to Boeing or something?) and probably got a good deal.

SQ also likes having a young fleet, so turn-over is a part of it. In hind sight, given the context, not sure how they should have done things differently in previous fleet selections. I think the 345s will go the way of the 343s for them and the 777-200LR will take on EWR and LAX nonstops.
 
mandala499
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:28 am

I think SQ got a good deal by Boeing taking those 343s and in effect giving the 772s perhaps the cheapest rate at that time without thinking about disposing the 343s. They probably wouldn't have gotten a good deal if they went asking for the 330s at that time.

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
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RayChuang
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:35 am

I wonder will SQ use the A330-300 on the SIN-HKG route, unless they need a larger plane such as the derated 777-200ER's and 777-300's.
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:44 am

I think HKG is a bt of a premium route for SQ, so you find a 744 (SFO flight), the 77W, sometimes 777s with space beds (though maybe not now that the 77W goes there) and in a few months the 380. Would imagine they will keep the route 3 class so if the 330s are 2 class would not expect many on SIN-HKG.

If SQ puts the "de-rated" 772ERs onto longer routes I hope they change the interiors!!! Brisbane, NZ and Melbourne are too far for the regional configurations, even in 3 class. At least MEL is now a 77W, a 744 and then only one regional 772/3 every day. I am on the 77W tonight and looking forward to it!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:07 pm

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 37):
[sorry not sure I know how to paste the quotes properly]

make sure it opens with |quote| and closes with |/quote|, though in this case, use ] and [ instead of | and |.

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 37):

They did not actually get the MD-11, right?

Correct

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 37):
So perhaps less of a mistake than than the companies who took delivery and then were dissapointed by performance

One thing one could certainly say in SQ's defense is that they were historically quite swift to correct such fleet "mistakes".

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 37):
When they ordered those were there even any Pacific ETOPs?

Yes.

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 37):
China Southern flew the first P-ETOPS on the CAN-LAX runs...

Correction, they flew the first central Pacific run at ETOPS180.

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 37):
And didn't SQ dump the 343s (leased or to Boeing or something?) and probably got a good deal.

Boeing bought back A343Xs (then called A343Es, but different from the A343Es opping for LX/SA/etc) in exchange for 772ERs. Other boards have endearingly come to refer to that transaction as the "SQ-F.U." to Airbus  Wink

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 37):
I think the 345s will go the way of the 343s for them and the 777-200LR will take on EWR and LAX nonstops.

Doubtful. The 772LR, like all 777s relative to their A340 counterparts, is a superior machine in both sales and performance--- but even the twinjet's capabilities have thusfar been deemed insufficient to justify the combination of both its acquisition cost and the hugely accelerated depreciation of the A345.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:32 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 41):
Correction, they flew the first central Pacific run at ETOPS180.

OK... but I flew on a China Southern 777 in the late 90's that said something to the effect of "First Pacific ETOPS" on the side of the aircraft. Who was the first PETOPS then?
 
LurveBus
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:42 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 41):
Doubtful. The 772LR, like all 777s relative to their A340 counterparts, is a superior machine in both sales and performance--- but even the twinjet's capabilities have thusfar been deemed insufficient to justify the combination of both its acquisition cost and the hugely accelerated depreciation of the A345.

And, of course, there's also the risk that five cheap A345s on the market might encourage nearby competitors to make their own ULH flights that bypass Singapore.

I do wish that SQ would get the 77L, though, if only to put their brand-new product on the US nonstops. But if the numbers don't deem it feasible, there's not much we can do.

Back to the A333s, I wonder what kind of seats they'll have. I'm curious as to how SQ is going to revamp its regional product.
 
LXA340
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:12 pm

Quoting LurveBus (Reply 43):
Back to the A333s, I wonder what kind of seats they'll have. I'm curious as to how SQ is going to revamp its regional product.

THe entire cabin will feature AVOD and I could imagine that SQ might only offer 2 Classes on all it's regional flights instread of the 3 classes on some flights. I am sure the C Class will be at least as good as the Space beds and F in case they will ofer it also I gues on the level of the current seats on the B744's.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:21 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 28):
The A345s are essentially worthless on the market

It may be my imagination but, I don't think that A345s are basically worthless as the AC ones had several airlines interested (US and TAM publically) granted it is an oddity (am I right that only 31 have ever been sold?) but if it was worthless those birds would of gone to be scrapped.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:59 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 45):
It may be my imagination but, I don't think that A345s are basically worthless as the AC ones had several airlines interested (US and TAM publically)

You seem to be ignoring the A345's strikingly swift depreciation. Yes some airlines might be interested in them, as well as able to make a use for them-- but not anywhere near the price that would've been expected for those aircraft, with those amount of cycles, with that age; at the time of their purchase.
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ZK-NBT
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:09 am

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 40):
If SQ puts the "de-rated" 772ERs onto longer routes I hope they change the interiors!!! Brisbane, NZ and Melbourne are too far for the regional configurations, even in 3 class. At least MEL is now a 77W, a 744 and then only one regional 772/3 every day. I am on the 77W tonight and looking forward to it!

AKL and CHC are both 772ER's with Spacebeds plus of course the daily leased 744 to AKL. MEL is currently getting 2x daily 744's plus the 77W though 1 of those 744's will revert back to a 773.
 
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PM
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:20 am

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 24):
Gotta say SQ generally makes good decisions.

You mean like buying five (so far) versions of the RR Trent with the possibility of a sixth to come imminently?  bigthumbsup   stirthepot   duck 
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: When Will SQ Get Their A330's?

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:30 pm

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 23):
those de-rated B772s can and will be pimped back by SQ

lol, perhaps you mean "PIPed back by SQ"?  Wink
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!

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