Boac747
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VX First - Too Small?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:27 pm

As a frequent transcon flyer, I have really taken to the VX product and experience. Beats the legacy carriers hans down. On every level.

But I've also noticed that too often, the F cabin is sold out. Good for VX, not for me.

At 8 seats, did they underestimate the demand?
 
JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: VX First - Too Small?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:34 pm

I think they might have. I would not be surprised if they install 2 more rows to give them 12, and take new deliveries with the 12 FC.
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Boac747
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RE: VX First - Too Small?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:37 pm

I'm all for it, but two more rows would give them 16.
 
ikramerica
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RE: VX First - Too Small?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:59 pm

Absolutely too small. It's the size of the F on a CO 735, which is considered too small.

12 would have been the minimum they should have fit. Even though it eats up 12 Y seats, from what I understand, F is always full, but Y usually has 12 seats free, minimum. They could have also done 12F with 48 in pitch and 135Y seats on the A320, instead of 55". I know 55" is nice and all, but it's honestly not needed on this length flight. 49" on the AA 762 in J is still a nice seat with plenty of transcon room.

1F for every 8-12Y is a rough standard for two class domestic aircraft in the USA. On VX, it's 1 for every 17 or so. I know VX are trying to reinvent flying, but shorting the F cabin isn't the right way to do it. All the other airlines didn't come to that general ratio by guessing...  Wink

Not too late to adjust their product.
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Boac747
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RE: VX First - Too Small?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:05 am

Nicw observation Ikramerica,

There have been too many VX flights I would have booked in F that I couldn't because of the sold out status. But I must admit, I really do love that 55" pitch  Wink
 
BrianDromey
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RE: VX First - Too Small?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:10 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Not too late to adjust their product.

The thing is though, that VX are SELLING their F cabins out, the others are giving theirs away more often than not. Better to go out completely full, with an air of exclusivity than empty with the tramps of the street filling up the cabin.

I think, if demand continues, VX will install more F seats, but it is still a bit previous, as many still say there is a "curisoty" factor. Another consideration is the time it takes to install the VX cabin, this is currently holding up deliveries, so until this is sorted, I would not expect a refit.

Brian.
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Boac747
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RE: VX First - Too Small?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:14 am

I am not aware at this point, of VX offering upgrades. So the cabin is full of full fare F. And like I have said, I am a full fare F ready to book, but stymied by the sold out status.

It really feels like 8 seats is way too small.

Just the $0.02 cents of a high revenue transon pax.
 
Boac747
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RE: VX First - Too Small?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:20 am

While we're at it, when will B6 offer an F product to up-product themselves in defense of the raising of the high yield bar?
 
ikramerica
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RE: VX First - Too Small?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 5):
The thing is though, that VX are SELLING their F cabins out, the others are giving theirs away more often than not.

First, no, not always. Many of the "given away" Y seats are sold as FULL Y, a fare higher than VX charges for their DISCOUNTED F seats. I know this because I've booked full Y and gotten free upgrade.

Second, on transcons, airlines are NOT giving the F (or J) seats away. For example, on CO, the odds of a free upgrade other than the far from free "Auto Y" upgrade are just about 0% on transcons. AA heavily restricts award travel on the transcons because the cabins are full of paying customers. UA PS is full of paying customers, etc.

Further, if VX is selling out F on every flight in advance, they don't have enough F seats. It's obvious to all who've flown them or tried to book them that F sells out early, and they could easily sell 4 more seats.

Now maybe, due to the pricing structure, selling 4F seats instead of 12Y seats means a loss in revenue, but if that's the case, why even have the F? Just take out the 8, add 24Y and move along.

VX wants to steal F traffic, but without having available seats, they won't become the "F of choice" for anyone. Now maybe they are looking to the future and shorter legs to less glamorous places, but they are starting with LAX, SFO, JFK, IAH, MIA and those markets (connecting them at least) can support 1:10 premium ratio.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
iaddca
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RE: VX First - Too Small?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:45 am

If you look at their loads in F, no question they can add some seats there.

Anyone know how long a plane would have to be out of service to put in new F seats?
 
luv2cattlecall
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RE: VX First - Too Small?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:51 am

Quoting Boac747 (Reply 7):
While we're at it, when will B6 offer an F product to up-product themselves in defense of the raising of the high yield bar?

I thought the general public thought they were all F?  sarcastic 


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LAXintl
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RE: VX First - Too Small?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:05 am

Seemingly I believe F class demand has exceeded Virgin America's expectations on the transon routes.

I've had colleagues on two separate occasions wanting to try VX F class in lieu of UA's C class and on both occasions they were sold out for the dates/times they wanted.

VX either should add more seats or inch the fares higher, as their F fare is quite a bargain compared to even C class fares on the market.
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Cubsrule
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RE: VX First - Too Small?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Seemingly I believe F class demand has exceeded Virgin America's expectations on the transon routes.

Does that mean that VX needs a transcon subfleet and a shorthaul subfleet? Perhaps 8 F seats is appropriate for SFO-LAS. I don't think VX is big enough to do the whole 2 seating arrangements yet; maybe in the future.
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Flighty
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RE: VX First - Too Small?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:35 am

VX has almost no competition in the stylish, transcon F market: just UA Premium Service and personally, I think VX looks better.

VX, like JetBlue before it, underestimated the demand of today's modern, rich man/woman to enjoy a premium product at a premium price. This country has a lot of rich people!! If F is truly good, people will pay for it. Not a fortune, but will they pay $200-400 extra per leg? You bet. VX is discovering this untapped part of the American market. I am glad to hear they are doing well.