jfk787nyc
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Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:59 am

Should Delta start flights to Central Asia? It seems they are the carrier that would be best in the region.
 
addd
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:10 am

you just started similar thread about direct US-Kazakhstan flights... Kazakhstan, in the foreseeable future, will be the only market that can even theoretically be of interest to an US carrier... Outside of kazakhstan, there is not much wealth on Central Asia, US economic and political presence in the region are limited - I just do not see it be in any way attractive to an US carrier for many years to come.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:01 pm

Quoting Addd (Reply 1):
Kazakhstan, in the foreseeable future, will be the only market that can even theoretically be of interest to an US carrier

Probably so. Anything else is more likely to be connected over via a Euro or MidE partner airline's hub.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
B752OS
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:00 pm

Quoting JFK787NYC (Thread starter):
Should Delta start flights to Central Asia? It seems they are the carrier that would be best in the region.

Based on what?
 
UnitedFirst
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:12 pm

Presumably based on the fact that, of all the US majors, Delta is the one most aggressively targeting new international markets – including many former Soviet Bloc countries.

To this end, it seems that Delta would be the most interested in exploring such a possiblity. However, if there were more potential for that segment, I imagine it would be receiving more attention, as US carriers as a whole grow more willing to choose previously 'undesirable', but now underserved and potentially profitable, markets.

In the meantime, connections by European carriers will likely have to do.
 
masseybrown
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:23 pm

Quoting UnitedFirst (Reply 4):
it seems that Delta would be the most interested in exploring such a possiblity.

Exploring, maybe, but not losing money. I don't think Delta has any interest in being a "flag carrier" unless subsidized. A post-Tilton UA, with a Washington hub, might be even more interested.
 
Mir
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:34 pm

Quoting JFK787NYC (Thread starter):
It seems they are the carrier that would be best in the region.

Based on what? It might be better to say that they would be the "least-worst" carrier for the job. Though CO would be another candidate with their IAH operation.

But I don't think you will see any flights US to Central Asia for a while. There just isn't the market to support it, and it's a long way away, so you'd use up several aircraft per route.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:54 pm

Quoting JFK787NYC (Thread starter):
Should Delta start flights to Central Asia? It seems they are the carrier that would be best in the region

And prey tell, why that would be?
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:57 pm

Quoting Addd (Reply 1):
Kazakhstan, in the foreseeable future, will be the only market that can even theoretically be of interest to an US carrier.

If even that. I don't see it for at least 10-20 years, even to Kazakhstan. Aside from Europe, I only see connecting there via Dubai or perhaps Mumbai (BOM).
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
jfk787nyc
Posts: 478
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:49 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
Mir From United States, joined Jan 2004, 8082 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted Mon Nov 5 2007 11:34:34 your local time (1 hour 12 minutes 1 sec ago) and read 175 times:


Quoting JFK787NYC (Thread starter):
It seems they are the carrier that would be best in the region.

Based on what? It might be better to say that they would be the "least-worst" carrier for the job. Though CO would be another candidate with their IAH operation.

But I don't think you will see any flights US to Central Asia for a while. There just isn't the market to support it, and it's a long way away, so you'd use up several aircraft per route.

-Mir

Their is alot of traffic coming out of New York on this route. This is a route exactly like Moscow & Kiev alot of people from the former Soviet Union are going to Almaty. I for one am a Russian living in Brighton Beach so I know exactly what I am talking about. Almaty is the next city after those two that everyone is flying too.
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:18 pm

Quoting Addd (Reply 1):
Outside of kazakhstan, there is not much wealth on Central Asia

There's plenty of wealth, it's just distributed on a horribly inequitable basis.

Quoting Addd (Reply 1):
US economic and political presence in the region are limited - I just do not see it be in any way attractive to an US carrier for many years to come.

I'm not going to turn this into a non-av thread, but you can count on that changing soon. Don't forget that Washington was giving massive amounts of aid to Uzbekistan and operating an airbase in the country prior to Moscow pressuring the government there to oust Bush & Co. from the country.

But in short, no. Delta (or any other American carrier for that matter) will not be in Central Asia any time soon. The possibilities there are probably extremely limited under the best of circumstances--ALA and TAS are probably the only airports in the region that could feasibly support an American carrier (unless I'm mistaken, TAS is the only one that currently has a direct flight to the U.S.).
 
addd
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:22 pm

Direct flight from the US to Kazakhstan by an US carrier is a possibility in the next 5-7 years (if Air Astana decides to move into transatlantic business, they may launch a flight to the US even earlier).

As for other Central Asian countries, I may remind that there already is a direct TAS (Tashkent) - RIX - JFK flight by Uzbekistan Airlines on B767; however, the success of this flight to a VERY large degree depends not on Central Asia O&D traffic but on:

1) Passengers connecting through TAS from US East Coast to (surprise! surprise!) India and Pakistan (where Uzbekistan Air serves multiple destinations including relatively "exotic" ones like Amritsar)

2) Traffic between RIX and JFK - it is an only direct flight between the ex-FSU Baltoc countries and the US.

Come to think of it, Air Astana may one decide to compete for the US-South Asia traffic as well in which case we may see them in the US sononer rather later.
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:29 pm

Quoting Addd (Reply 11):

1) Passengers connecting through TAS from US East Coast to (surprise! surprise!) India and Pakistan (where Uzbekistan Air serves multiple destinations including relatively "exotic" ones like Amritsar)

I find that really hard to believe. UZ seems like the most inconvenient carrier imaginable for connections (the routing your talking about would involve at least two connections) and I don't imagine that many travel sites/agents even offer/suggest JFK-RIX-TAS-India as a bookable option for a U.S.-India routing.

Quoting Addd (Reply 11):
2) Traffic between RIX and JFK - it is an only direct flight between the ex-FSU Baltoc countries and the US.

Interesting! Any politics to note behind that? I can't imagine that most governments would be keen on having a third party operate their lone U.S. route...
 
addd
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:33 pm

Another important factor that one should keep in mind is that neither Emirates nor Etihad are currently flying to Kazakhstan or Central Asia - which is more "natural" expansion market for them than for any US airlines. Once they start joining European and Asian majors with their flights to the region - there will be even less room for an US airline... As I said before - I do not see direct US carrier flights between US and Kazakhstan untill the arrival of 787, and to other Central Asian countries - in any foreseeable future.

What I DO see, however, is EK flying to Almaty and Tashkent as soon as 2008 and to Astana, Ashgabat and, possibly, Bishkek before 2010.
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:39 pm

Quoting Addd (Reply 13):
What I DO see, however, is EK flying to Almaty and Tashkent as soon as 2008 and to Astana, Ashgabat

I'd agree. That seems probable.

Quoting Addd (Reply 13):
and, possibly, Bishkek before 2010.

I highly doubt it. I don't think Bishkek has any service to any markets outside of Central Asia, let alone Europe or the Gulf. An EK widebody into that market (A380 to FRU anybody?) would probably be overkill--though for the purposes of this thread, we should note it's the one airport in the region that enjoys regular service to the United States.  Wink

[Edited 2007-11-05 10:40:56]
 
addd
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:48 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 14):
I don't think Bishkek has any service to any markets outside of Central Asia, let alone Europe or the Gulf



Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 14):
we should note it's the one airport in the region that enjoys regular service to the United States.

Bishkek (FRU) is served by BMI (former BMED) 4x weekly flight to LHR, TK flight to IST and daily SU flight to SVO - not to mention a bunch of local carriers flying to China, Middle East, the subcontinent and Europe (see list of destinations here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manas_International_Airport). As for "regular" flight to the US, I can not think of amy other than military transports Smile

Granted, though, it is not and never will be a big market (neither is Ashgabat, for that matter).
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:59 pm

Quoting Addd (Reply 15):
Bishkek (FRU) is served by BMI (former BMED) 4x weekly flight to LHR

Didn't know that! I'd be curious to know how that route is performing for BMI...what kind of equipment are they operating on it?

Quoting Addd (Reply 15):
TK flight to IST and daily SU flight to SVO

Neither market came to my mind as being "European", but good call. I forgot those.

Quoting Addd (Reply 15):
not to mention a bunch of local carriers flying to China, Middle East, the subcontinent and Europe

Just as I didn't think of IST and SVO as being European markets, I don't immediately think of URC as being Chinese (but as you said, there are quite a few other Chinese markets being served from FRU). What's with all the China Southern service? A lot of their service from FRU is to non-Chinese markets...
 
avek00
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:45 pm

Quoting JFK787NYC (Thread starter):
Should Delta start flights to Central Asia?

Not unless it wants to lose its shirt in a market that's VERY thin and fleet intensive. If and when Air France sees an economic case to serve Almaty from Paris-CDG, DL can throw a codeshare flight number on it.
Live life to the fullest.
 
addd
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:47 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 16):
Didn't know that! I'd be curious to know how that route is performing for BMI...what kind of equipment are they operating on it?

A320... it is a former BMED route that has been in place since mid-to-late 1990s - I believe it makes a stop in either Baku or Tbilisi on its way to LHR - from what I know, it has consistently been a strong performer.

See more here: http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/plan...mation/wherewefly/17newroutes.aspx

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 16):
What's with all the China Southern service? A lot of their service from FRU is to non-Chinese markets...

Not sure what you mean - they fly from FRU only to Urumqi, AFAIK...
 
addd
Posts: 83
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:50 pm

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 17):
If and when Air France sees an economic case to serve Almaty from Paris-CDG, DL can throw a codeshare flight number on it.

For that matter, DL can do it today with existing KL AMS-ALA flight...
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:50 pm

Quoting Addd (Reply 18):
Not sure what you mean - they fly from FRU only to Urumqi, AFAIK...

I could really stand to check what page I'm looking at before I post here--I was on the URC page when I saw that. Oops!
 
jfk787nyc
Posts: 478
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:51 pm

Quoting Addd (Reply 19):
Addd From United States, joined May 2007, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted Mon Nov 5 2007 14:50:11 your local time (51 minutes 8 secs ago) and read 96 times:


Quoting Avek00 (Reply 17):
If and when Air France sees an economic case to serve Almaty from Paris-CDG, DL can throw a codeshare flight number on it.

For that matter, DL can do it today with existing KL AMS-ALA flight...

How many Codeshares can a flight have Ams-ALA is code shared by KLM, NWA, & AirAstana and the funny thing is AirAstana publishes much cheaper fares than NWA & KLM.
 
Mir
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:55 pm

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 21):
How many Codeshares can a flight have Ams-ALA is code shared by KLM, NWA, & AirAstana

As many codeshares as you can put on it.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 16):
Neither market came to my mind as being "European", but good call. I forgot those.



Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 16):
Just as I didn't think of IST and SVO as being European markets

Moscow is Europe. Was and is. It's west of the mountain range, therefore loacted in the European part of Russia.

Aeroflot777
 
mia
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:02 pm

The problem with a codeshare involving Russia is the bloody visa the Russians require you to have in order to have the PRIVILEDGE of transiting through their most non-European airports (shitty btw if we are talking about SVO) in the most non-European cities of Europe.

I need to goto Baku this summer and im planning my trip from now. Its enough that I need a visa to visit Azeribaijan, but to pay for a Visa to transit through MOSCOW? Yes going on Aeroflot will be the cheapest but when I factor in the required visa fees, money order fees, overnight express fees, and the hassle of dealing with Russian Immigration and consulate officials; its cheaper just to go through Istanbul or Milan.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 23):
Moscow is Europe. Was and is. It's west of the mountain range, therefore loacted in the European part of Russia.

I know that. It didn't come to mind earlier--this being a thread about former Soviet Republics in Asia certainly didn't help me make the mental connection. Don't let my fellow geographers-in-training find out about that one.
 
addd
Posts: 83
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting MIA (Reply 24):
need to goto Baku this summer and im planning my trip from now. Its enough that I need a visa to visit Azeribaijan, but to pay for a Visa to transit through MOSCOW?

That would definitely be an unnecessary hassle, but I think SU flights to Azerbaijan now depart Terminal 2 (international) in SVO which means you no longer need a Russian visa since you stay in transit zone all the time... you may want to doublecheck with Aeroflot.

Besides, there are plenty of choices from NA to Baku other than flying through Moscow - OS, LH, TK, VV, BM.
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:43 am

Quoting MIA (Reply 24):
The problem with a codeshare involving Russia is the bloody visa the Russians require you to have in order to have the PRIVILEDGE of transiting through their most non-European airports (shitty btw if we are talking about SVO) in the most non-European cities of Europe.

Yeah, it sucks, but just to be fair, the US isn't an easy place to transit for foreign nationals either - we require transit visas as well.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
addd
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 8:47 am

RE: Delta To Central Asia

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting MIA (Reply 24):
need to goto Baku this summer

.. and, to continue our geography lesson, Baku/Azerbaijan are not in Central Asia.... Smile
 
mia
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:40 am

RE: Delta To Central Asia

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:40 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 27):
we require transit visas as well.

Right, that is post 9/11 the Russians have always been a pain in the butt about it.

Quoting Addd (Reply 28):
Baku/Azerbaijan are not in Central Asia

Really? Well, close enough, not that it matters.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
jfk787nyc
Posts: 478
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RE: Delta To Central Asia

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:03 pm

Can anyone tell me why Aeroflot does not fly to Kazakhstan it seems like a very weird question. Their are 4 Daily flights on from Almaty - Moscow and 3 Daily flights from Astana - Moscow.

Transaero flies 767 twice daily. to Almaty & Astana

Air Astana flies A321 from Almaty & Astana

S7 flies TU154 daily and planes are packed as well.
 
addd
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 8:47 am

RE: Delta To Central Asia

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 30):
Can anyone tell me why Aeroflot does not fly to Kazakhstan it seems like a very weird question

AFAIK, it is the result of murky aviation politics in Russia... in mid-1990s, when Transaero was starting, they used their (well-known) political connections to get exclusive rights (from the Russian side, anyway) on the lucrative Moscow-Almaty route which instantly became one of their major moneymakers. To this day, UN is the only Russian airline flying from Moscow to both ALA and TSE (S7 flies from DME only to some second-tier cities in Kazakhstan), and SU remains shut out of the market.

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