KSMOGene
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United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:57 am

Hi all, this is my first posting to the forum, though I've been reading for many years.

I was recently talking to some United pilots before take-off about the Channel 9 system, and they said that on occasion they were required to turn it off for "security reasons."

Does anyone know what these reasons might be? Since they are all publicly accessible channels (i.e. you can pick up the signal if you have a scanner), there isn't anything on the airwaves that is that sensitive.

I can perhaps understand them wanting to turn it off if they are discussing a potential emergency on the flight, so as not to scare other passengers.

Also, certain United pilots apparently don't like having Channel 9 on at all...is that common?

Thanks fellas!

KSMOGeNe
 
Goldenshield
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:08 am

Generally, they'll turn it off for anything that the crew deems of special interest. Since, as a passenger, you are actually onboard the flight at the time, it would not be wise for the crew to scare their passengers.

Quoting KSMOGeNe (Thread starter):
Also, certain United pilots apparently don't like having Channel 9 on at all...is that common?

The Channel 9 feed comes via the observer's panel. Sometimes that goes inop.
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dispatchguy
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:17 am

When I worked at UA, I asked a captain on a flight I was flying on if Ch 9 could be on, he refused stating "nope, too many damned lawyers out there."

Plus, if any flight on the frequency has an emergency, they'll usually turn it off so as not to spook the pax.
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
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TK787
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:19 pm

I was on couple of UA flights last week and it was a pleasure to have the channel on both flights. Taking off from LGA, the captain asked the tower if he could have two more minutes holding short. The tower reluctantly, granted, don't know why but it didn't last two minutes, we were off.
Later on the same flight I could see the pilot coming off the cockpit and using the restroom, when ATC asked our flight if it is smooth at our altitude. When our FO was saying " yes it is pretty smooth.." we hit some serious bumps, he goes; "well, I take that back" and we went down to 26,000 for smoother air.
On our second flight, we had a lady in charge up front. At one point she was asked to go up to 34, and after doing that,
she called back and said "could i go back to 32" and she was OK'ed.
Both my flights Channel 9 was on from take-off to landing.
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:28 pm

The crew you were flying with may have had it off because they didn't want people in back to hear them. That way they don't have to remember to be nice on the radio.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
UAL777UK
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:38 pm

More often than not on the flights I have been on with UA, CH9 was on. My two most memorable events when it was on was firstly the first day the Star Alliance came into force in 1997 IIRC correctly. I was on a UA 777 that was holding on the taxiway when an AC747 went past us and hit our wing....Our captain came on the Radio and said to the AC Captian that you have hit our aircraft...he said he didn't and all those who wer listening on CH9 screamed..."oh yes you did!"...Its funny now but at the time it was a apin as of course our flight was cancelled!
The secon time was flying back from HKG to SFO, we were at cruising altitude and the Flightdeck advise us that we were a very close to I think Fosset doing a round the world record flight in his Balloon. We could not of course see them but our flightdeck conversed with him and on behalf on United wished him all the best....that was very special.
I think in general only a very few crews dont have CH9 on..thank god!
 
mcdu
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 4):
The crew you were flying with may have had it off because they didn't want people in back to hear them. That way they don't have to remember to be nice on the radio.

That is definitely not the case. We do not alter our tone or dialect with controllers due to CH9 being on. CH9 is an excellent tool however there are certain occasions that it will be switched off. Please allow the crew to turn this off without question. It is a special treat and may not always be appropriate.

There are many issues that could cause a crew to turn this off. When the airport is reporting Windshear I will generally switch it off, big line of Tstorms to avoid I switch it off, low visibility operations also. There are more, but those come to mind quickly. Often if someone is listening they will misinterpret what is being said as a hazard and it can lead to a misunderstanding of the state of the airplane in the passengers mind.
 
halls120
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:55 pm

Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 2):
Plus, if any flight on the frequency has an emergency, they'll usually turn it off so as not to spook the pax.

Not always. I was sitting on the ground at IAD once and had a audio ringside seat to another aircraft that had declared an emergency.

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 5):
More often than not on the flights I have been on with UA, CH9 was on.

Same here. If anything, I've noticed an increase in the availabilty of CH 9 over the past year.

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 6):
There are many issues that could cause a crew to turn this off. When the airport is reporting Windshear I will generally switch it off, big line of Tstorms to avoid I switch it off, low visibility operations also. There are more, but those come to mind quickly. Often if someone is listening they will misinterpret what is being said as a hazard and it can lead to a misunderstanding of the state of the airplane in the passengers mind.

Thanks for keeping it on when you do. it really helps pass the time - especially when the in flight movie is a POS.  Smile
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
hiflyer
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:36 pm

ahhh channel 9...the only thing better would be channel 9 and an external camera.....grin....would make every seat a window seat!!

Seriously....been on flts next to a fearful flyer.....little bumps and I had long nails dug into my arms. Got her to put on 9 and explained that the guy in the left front seat is the most fearful flyer of all....listen how he tries to avoid them....worked just fine!
 
Arcrftlvr
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:09 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 3):
Taking off from LGA, the captain asked the tower if he could have two more minutes holding short. The tower reluctantly, granted, don't know why but it didn't last two minutes, we were off.
Later on the same flight I could see the pilot coming off the cockpit and using the restroom, when ATC asked our flight if it is smooth at our altitude. When our FO was saying " yes it is pretty smooth.." we hit some serious bumps, he goes; "well, I take that back" and we went down to 26,000 for smoother air.
On our second flight, we had a lady in charge up front. At one point she was asked to go up to 34, and after doing that,
she called back and said "could i go back to 32" and she was OK'ed.
Both my flights Channel 9 was on from take-off to landing.

And.....
 
asuflyer05
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:11 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 1):
The Channel 9 feed comes via the observer's panel. Sometimes that goes inop.

I've been told if there is a check airmen or a jumpseater in the cockpit it will be turned off.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:15 pm

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 10):
I've been told if there is a check airmen or a jumpseater in the cockpit it will be turned off.

Not true. I've jumpsat plenty of times with it on, and the observer can still plug in the headphones, just not the microphone.
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N867BX
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:59 pm

Quoting KSMOGeNe (Thread starter):
United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Perhaps best to turn it off if you and your copilot are planning on taking a nap during the flight.
 
Mir
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:19 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 7):
I was sitting on the ground at IAD once and had a audio ringside seat to another aircraft that had declared an emergency.

I've had the same thing at ORD. We got to the gate and I had to get off before it got resolved though.  Sad

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 10):
I've been told if there is a check airmen or a jumpseater in the cockpit it will be turned off.

I've been on a flight during which there was an FAA guy plus another jumpseater up front, and Channel 9 was still on. I actually got to hear the captain call maintenance to request a new FMC after we landed - apparently one of the ones in the plane wasn't displaying position on the moving map properly. The captain, by the way, was fantastic, and kept us up to date with clear but not dumbed down information about our delay from MSP (pipes had frozen in the plane due to a very cold overnight).

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 7):
Thanks for keeping it on when you do. it really helps pass the time

 checkmark 

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ebs757
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting N867BX (Reply 12):

Perhaps best to turn it off if you and your copilot are planning on taking a nap during the flight.

LOL
But anyways, Ch9 is a great feature for sure
Viva la Vida
 
platinumfoota
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 2):
When I worked at UA, I asked a captain on a flight I was flying on if Ch 9 could be on, he refused stating "nope, too many damned lawyers out there."

I have to second that. On my many talks with many pilots in UA the constant answer is "too many lawyers out there". The one thing i forget to ask is on my flights to the islands (HNL, KOA, OGG and LIH) Ch.9 is always turned off during the mid part of the flight, its on for about an hour then off then back on about 2 hours before landing.
Never forget United 93
 
N1120A
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 2):
"nope, too many damned lawyers out there."

Which is a completely short sighted way of looking at things.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Super80DFW
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 8):
an external camera.....grin....would make every seat a window seat!!

fly bmi!
"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
 
SQA350
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:52 am

I always wonder why it is only UA that offers this feature. Does anyone know? It would be so damn great to have it in every plane!
"No more window seats in business class, sir!" "Any in economy? Yes? Then downgrade me!"
 
L1011
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:54 am

A couple of weeks ago, I was on a UA 737 from ORD to RIC, and the captain announced that there was a ball game on, and he would see if he could put it on channel 9. He said he knew that was the channel where people listen to cockpit communications, but he thought more people would be interested in the ball game, so that's what we got. I was very disappointed.

Bob Bradley
Richmond, VA
Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
 
tdscanuck
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting KSMOGeNe (Thread starter):
I was recently talking to some United pilots before take-off about the Channel 9 system, and they said that on occasion they were required to turn it off for "security reasons."

Does anyone know what these reasons might be? Since they are all publicly accessible channels (i.e. you can pick up the signal if you have a scanner), there isn't anything on the airwaves that is that sensitive.

I have no idea if this actually happens, but I can guess that they'd turn Channel 9 off if there were any security-critical flights in the area. Although you can pick up Channel 9 from the ground, under normal circumstances, passengers have no access to radio equipment in flight and the TSA is just paranoid enough to think that somebody would listen in on Channel 9 to plan some kind of security event when Air Force Two is flying through or something like that. Never underestimate how stupid TSA can be in the US.

I love Channel 9. Best part was landing at O'Hare when the tower ordered a go-around due to the previous aircraft not clearing the runway. Rather than going "what the !@$!?" I knew it was coming and got to savour the moment of a full thrust climb at very low weight. Fun times.

Tom.
 
Mir
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting Platinumfoota (Reply 15):
The one thing i forget to ask is on my flights to the islands (HNL, KOA, OGG and LIH) Ch.9 is always turned off during the mid part of the flight, its on for about an hour then off then back on about 2 hours before landing.

Over the ocean, planes are out of radio contact with ATC due to the limitations of the horizon. That's for regular VHF radio, of course. They can use HF radio to make their position reports, but that has a lot of static, so it would be a pain for passengers to listen to on Channel 9 (and not much is said, even less with CPDLC's increased commonality). The pilots will also switch to the VHF air-to-air frequencies to talk to other pilots, but the conversation isn't exactly G-rated or relevant to flight, so Channel 9 will be switched off.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 2):
"nope, too many damned lawyers out there."

Which is a completely short sighted way of looking at things.

Not really. The FAA has specific rules for what can be said over the radio. Those rules are frequently broken, but should something go wrong, a pilot (or controller) could be held liable for non-standard things they said, even if they weren't remotely related to the incident. For some, the chance of a lawsuit isn't worth it. It's a shame, and if I were a UA captain I'd think differently, but I can't really question their judgement on it.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
N1120A
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 21):
a pilot (or controller) could be held liable for non-standard things they said, even if they weren't remotely related to the incident.

No they wouldn't. Simply using non-standard phraseology would never meet even a summary judgment threshold.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
halls120
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 21):
The FAA has specific rules for what can be said over the radio. Those rules are frequently broken, but should something go wrong, a pilot (or controller) could be held liable for non-standard things they said, even if they weren't remotely related to the incident. For some, the chance of a lawsuit isn't worth it. It's a shame, and if I were a UA captain I'd think differently, but I can't really question their judgement on it.

How would channel 9 being on or off make any difference? Since I assume FAA records all their controllers conversations, in the event of an incident, if a UA pilot or controller has said anything inappropriate, its going to be recorded.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Mir
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 23):
How would channel 9 being on or off make any difference? Since I assume FAA records all their controllers conversations, in the event of an incident, if a UA pilot or controller has said anything inappropriate, its going to be recorded.

It doesn't even have to be a screwup on your part. All it takes is a "previous aircraft went around with a windshear alert" statement from the tower, and some passenger gets really nervous and sues for emotional distress. Would they win? Most likely not, as Alireza says, but you don't need that extra headache of having to get your own lawyer and fight it.

Like I said, I don't agree with that logic, but I can see where they're coming from.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
N1120A
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 24):
but you don't need that extra headache of having to get your own lawyer and fight it.

The airlines already have lawyers, both in house and paid for by insurance companies, that will defend both airline and pilot in the event of an issue.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
halls120
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:42 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 24):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 23):How would channel 9 being on or off make any difference? Since I assume FAA records all their controllers conversations, in the event of an incident, if a UA pilot or controller has said anything inappropriate, its going to be recorded.
It doesn't even have to be a screwup on your part. All it takes is a "previous aircraft went around with a windshear alert" statement from the tower, and some passenger gets really nervous and sues for emotional distress. Would they win? Most likely not, as Alireza says, but you don't need that extra headache of having to get your own lawyer and fight it.

I'm sure United actually has licensed lawyers in their employ, and I suspect that they have reviewed their exposure for having CH 9 on. If there was really a chance of a lawsuit based on "oh my god, I thought we were going to crash based on what I heard on channel 9" United would have terminated the option a long time ago.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
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WarRI1
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:45 am

I just flew UA from Providence to Dulles and the flight attendant told me that it is up to the pilot as to whether channel 9 is on which it was not on that flight. I then flew from Dulles to Heathrow and it was on, on the return trip from Heathrow to Chicago, it was on also. On the last leg from Chicago to Prov, I did not check for channel 9. I enjoy channel 9 on UA and did not know that channel 9 was not offered by all airlines.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
LuiePL
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Of

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:01 am

What about carrying a scanner on board? Obviously you can use it in-flight, but how discrete would you have to be during take off / landing? I would think it would be better in terms of hearing more channels, not necessarily further range (due to the short antenna, and being inside the aircraft).

I always liked channel 9, even though I haven't flown UA in years. WN doesn't have it for money reasons, and I was on US to DTW in July, and their E170s don't have them, or if they did, I didn't see the jack for the headphones.
-Luie PHL-
 
AlexPorter
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:54 am

Quoting LuiePL (Reply 28):
What about carrying a scanner on board?

This is one of those things that I believe airlines do not allow to be used at any time onboard, regardless of whether you are taking off or cruising.
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Of

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 26):
I'm sure United actually has licensed lawyers in their employ, and I suspect that they have reviewed their exposure for having CH 9 on. If there was really a chance of a lawsuit based on "oh my god, I thought we were going to crash based on what I heard on channel 9" United would have terminated the option a long time ago.

HDQLD yo!.

Quoting LuiePL (Reply 28):
Obviously you can use it in-flight, but how discrete would you have to be during take off / landing?

No actually you can't. Radio devices are strictly prohibited at any time during flight.

Quoting Mir (Reply 21):
Over the ocean, planes are out of radio contact with ATC due to the limitations of the horizon. That's for regular VHF radio, of course. They can use HF radio to make their position reports, but that has a lot of static, so it would be a pain for passengers to listen to on Channel 9 (and not much is said, even less with CPDLC's increased commonality). The pilots will also switch to the VHF air-to-air frequencies to talk to other pilots, but the conversation isn't exactly G-rated or relevant to flight, so Channel 9 will be switched off.

A few years ago I was on UA ORD-NRT, we were over the Pac, when I noticed another UA -400 (identified themselves at UA891 LAX-NRT) flying next to us (in Parallel 2000 ft below) for a few hours. The chatted with our crew on Ch 9 for about 20 minutes. Was cool to listen to, esp. since there was nothing else to hear in that area... Eventually they told us the winds were changing and they were starting to pick up some wake turbulence from us so they slowed down to drop behind us a few miles.

A few weeks ago, I was flying into ORD and an EGL guy slowed down too much so the 763 I was on had to fly MAP and came back around to the same controller who said "Hey UAxxx, nice to see you again, I believe we have 27R available this time..."
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
SQA350
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 30):
No actually you can't. Radio devices are strictly prohibited at any time during flight.

I think they normally say that transmitting devices are not allowed to be used during the whole flight. An air-band receiver is not a transmitting device, isn't it? Then on the other hand the crew would most probably ban it anyway once they see you using it.

I used to use my air-band receiver on board planes many years ago before the mobile phone "disease" had spread over the whole planet. It was fun!
"No more window seats in business class, sir!" "Any in economy? Yes? Then downgrade me!"
 
georgebush
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
The airlines already have lawyers, both in house and paid for by insurance companies, that will defend both airline and pilot in the event of an issue.

Have you ever been in a car accident?? In the US the VERY next day your mail box is litterd with lawyers letters suggesting to "go after" the other party. Its dispicable.

The pilots are absoultly correct for this reason. Even if they have lawyers they employ its not that easy, you still have to go to the proceedings, file affidavits, ect. ect. Its just not worth it.
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:59 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 32):
Have you ever been in a car accident?? In the US the VERY next day your mail box is litterd with lawyers letters suggesting to "go after" the other party. Its dispicable.

Are you serious?
Keep the shinny side up!
 
georgebush
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 33):
Are you serious?

Yes. Right when I turned 16 I got in my first (and only) wreck. The next day I had 6 letters from law offices who look up the accident reports and then its a race to be the first person to contact you. In all I prolly had between 25 and 30 letters. This was in Indiana, but I am quite sure it is the same for the rest of the states.

I soo don't blame these pilots. In the US you can sue for just about anything... Dont forget the lady who ordered a coffee from McDonalds, drove away, and spilled it on her. She won $10,000,000.00USD for "not knowing it was hot." This is of course an extreme, but now every cup reads: "Caution: Contents may be hot."
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
qf772
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 32):
Even if they have lawyers they employ its not that easy, you still have to go to the proceedings, file affidavits, ect. ect. Its just not worth it.

As an Insurance Broker I had a client once who got sued by someone who injured themselved climbing a fence breaking into their land on the basis that the gate whould have been unlocked to allow entry.

The claimant did not see one red cent however the insurance company paid out $300K to defend it. Our legal councel advised going after recovery from the claimant because we would waste more money in court and ultimately the claimant wouldn't be able to repay the costs anyway.

Remember that insured does no equal free. Insurance companies exist to make a profit for their shareholders and when claims go up as do insurance premiums, the best way to keep your premium down is keep your claims down.

Personally I think it would be very very unlikely that anyone would ever sue on the basis of something they heard on Channel 9 and its not like their adding witnesses to an incident as everything said on the cockpit is recorded by the CVR anyway.

That said I would think it would be a corporate decision to make rather than an individual pilot as the pilot would be covered by the company.
Eagles may soar but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:54 am

CH 9 makes flying UA special... I would trade just about any IFE for CH9 any day... ha that is the best to listen to!

I agree that there ARE too many people/lawyers who would use the audio as a means to complain or sue, which is too bad. When flying in or near rough weather it really shows you how hard the crew up front is working to make things smooth for the passengers. It also reinforces how professional the aviation community is and give the passengers reassurance that they are in good hands.

Fly LAX-SYD the crew will usually turn off CH9 from about 30 minutes out of LAX until reaching Australian air space because a most of that route is "oceanic" and there is all sorts of chatter on the HF radio between flights. Sometime the crew will announce they are turning it off because they don't want to have the passengers listen to the freighters and the "Qantas guys" telling bad jokes all night. Captain got a good laugh from the whole plane when he said that over the PA.

I remember leaving LAX 2 hours late due to a big Pacific storm and listening to the captain steer us into smooth air in just a few minutes... the 744 was flying like a sports car turing corners and it was so great listening to the UA work with ATC and the QF flight ahead of us to find smooth air and then our plane would give their "best way out of the bumps" to the Qantas flight behind us.. who were very appreciative. Also made it feel less lonely to know our 744 was in a convoy heading out over the Pacific together.

Best line I ever heard was on a UA 777 flying LAX-IAD and our pilot asked for a turn due to weather ahead. ATC kept telling him to hold on... he finally told them if he did not get a turn it was going to get messy. ATC joklingly told him it would not be as messy as if he "traded paint with the company 767 at your 11 o'clock". Then they quickly gave him a vector and the big jet banked and and cruised around a huge thunderhead... without so much as a tiny bump. Then I saw the refelction of the 767 off in the distance. Was very neat.


Big thanks to all the UA captains/crews who keep it on. If I were a lawyer I would defend any of you pro-bono if anyone complained!

As far as camera go, I think those are getting rare. Only EK seems to have them on most of the fleet and always use them. Thai and CX have good systems on a few of their types but rarely use them. Japan seems to still use the cameras, at least within Japan.
 
NorthstarBoy
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:09 am

I understand the desire not to freak out the passengers, who often don't understand the terminology, as a case in point, i was listening to Channel 9 on a trip from Spokane to Denver, and a UPS a/c called in to report mountain wave. i had no clue what mountain wave even way, but one of our pilots came on shortly afterward and said something to the effect of "Is that going to affect us?" the tower said no, and the pilot sounded relieved. i assumed mountain wave is a bad thing.

I also wonder if there's a correlation between the age of the cockpit crew and turning on channel 9. like the younger crews don't turn it on, whereas the older crews do.
Yes, I'd like to see airbus go under so Boeing can have their customers!
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:37 am

Mountain wave and Leeward or Lee" waves are NO FUN. Imagine air currents going horizontally across the earth then bumping up to go over a mountain... and then the air above it getting pushed up too (like a big rock in a rushing stream creates a whitewater rapid). When the air gets trapped on the leeward side (other side form the wind) it literally tumbles like a dryer causing terrible wind shear known as "rotors"; some call them "rollers" because that is what it will do to a light aircraft.

A 707 got ripped apart by Mountain wave and/or Lee wave near Mount Fuji back in the 70s. These days areas with severe waves are avoided as they create extreme turbulence; weather centres can predict them better now. You can and will often get mountain wave turbulence over the much of the southwestern US mountain ranges such as the rockies and even the Santa Anna mountains (infamous "Santa Anna Rotors" to aviators). The Monzano range creates some big bump coming into ABQ, especially when you add in the summer time thermals. Of course, that is just uncomfortable; not extreme (well can be but they would avoid it if it were predicted to be bad). Like regular turbulence, waves can be light or strong. Pilots don't like it because it can be nasty.
 
NorthstarBoy
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:08 am

thanks, QantasHeavy, for the great explanation, i can imagine it wasn't fun for the UPS guys who had to fly through it, that's what i like about Channel 9, it gives the passengers something of a heads up on what's ahead, if it's turned on. you can listen, pilots give one another turbulence reports via ATC, and tighten up your seatbelt as the F/A comes on and says "we're expecting some turbulence ahead, please return to your seats and fasten your seatbelts."
Yes, I'd like to see airbus go under so Boeing can have their customers!
 
N1120A
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:11 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 32):
In the US the VERY next day your mail box is litterd with lawyers letters suggesting to "go after" the other party.

I have been involved in multiple car accidents, none of which were deemed my fault, and I have never once gotten a solicitation by an attorney for representation. Further, not a single lawyer I know does such a thing.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 32):

The pilots are absoultly correct for this reason. Even if they have lawyers they employ its not that easy, you still have to go to the proceedings, file affidavits, ect. ect. I

No. It is that easy. If a lawyer was stupid enough to file a claim based on use of non-standard phraseology, they would be laughed out of court and sanctioned. They may well even lose their license to practice law if they were found to be in bad faith.

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 33):

Are you serious?

No. He is making it up.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 34):
Dont forget the lady who ordered a coffee from McDonalds, drove away, and spilled it on her.



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 34):
She won $10,000,000.00USD f

Either you are making this up, or you haven't actually read up on Liebeck v. McDonalds. She didn't "drive away", she was parked and putting cream and sugar in her coffee and wasn't even driving the car anyway. Initially, she had asked only for McDonald's to pay her medical bills, which were about $11,000 because of the nature of her injuries. She wasn't awarded $10 million, she was awarded $2.9 million, which was reduced JNOV to $640,000 after contributory negligence and a standard punitive multiplier were used. She and McDonald's then settled for around $500,000.
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georgebush
Posts: 488
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:58 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 40):
No. It is that easy. If a lawyer was stupid enough to file a claim based on use of non-standard phraseology, they would be laughed out of court and sanctioned. They may well even lose their license to practice law if they were found to be in bad faith.

Do you practice law in the United States?? I am not saying a law-suit based on non standard phraseology. There are MANY scumbag lawyers in the United States (and everywhere) who will do anything, and find any legal loop-hole to make a buck.

Everyone I know who has been in a car accident in the US has received countless proposals from attorney's offices suggesting to file lawsuit. It happens ALL the time, and it is a huge business for them. They contact you when your upset about the wreck and therefore increasing their chances of getting you to agree to file suit.

There have been many suits against McDonalds for coffee. And while I do not sit all day in front of my law books (unless I am having trouble sleeping) I know that McDonalds has been done for outrageous amounts of money in the past for stupidest things. On obese woman sued McDonalds for making her fat, and thanks the the wonderful judaical system in the US and scumbag attorney's she won.

While I love listening to channel 9 just as much as the next guy in this forum, you can't blame pilots who are scared to put it on because of something like that, it is logical excuse. A bored attorney on board could hear something that trips his trigger, and he thinks up an outlandish case and the next thing you know that pilot or UA are in court.
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
N1120A
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:07 pm

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 41):

Do you practice law in the United States??

 sarcastic 

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 41):
On obese woman sued McDonalds for making her fat, and thanks the the wonderful judaical system in the US and scumbag attorney's she won.

Show me where an obese person won a lawsuit, in the United States, against McDonald's
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Cubsrule
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:22 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 40):

I have been involved in multiple car accidents, none of which were deemed my fault, and I have never once gotten a solicitation by an attorney for representation. Further, not a single lawyer I know does such a thing.

It's highly state-dependent. In Illinois, for instance, it doesn't happen. In North Carolina, it even happens with speeding tickets (and I'm told it's quite lucrative for attorneys who choose to do it)
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
N1120A
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:36 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 43):

It's highly state-dependent. In Illinois, for instance, it doesn't happen. In North Carolina, it even happens with speeding tickets (and I'm told it's quite lucrative for attorneys who choose to do it)

Look, technically it is legal, because the Supreme Court said that the previous practice of limiting directed written advertising was an unconstitutional restriction of speech. Nonetheless, such a practice is heavily looked down upon by respectable lawyers and is something I have never seen happen in California, which is by far the largest state with the most lawyers.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Cubsrule
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RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:57 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 44):
Nonetheless, such a practice is heavily looked down upon by respectable lawyers

Indeed. Many states also have ethics decisions that indirectly speak to the issue (although, as you pointed out, they can't ban it outright, and I'm not aware of any states that have tried since the Supreme Court decision).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 44):
Nonetheless, such a practice is heavily looked down upon by respectable lawyers

Unfortunately, not all lawyers are respectable.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
georgebush
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:15 am

RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 43):
It's highly state-dependent. In Illinois, for instance, it doesn't happen. In North Carolina, it even happens with speeding tickets (and I'm told it's quite lucrative for attorneys who choose to do it)

Thanks. I was unsure of the states that did this. But if its serious enough in Indiana, lawyers will even turn up at your hospital bedside and try to persuade you to sue.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 42):
Show me where an obese person won a lawsuit, in the United States, against McDonald's

I dont have ages to look for that. But here is a site where is states people have sued McDonalds/BK for making them obese. I am sure the proceedings are still underway. http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=4431
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 47):
But if its serious enough in Indiana, lawyers will even turn up at your hospital bedside and try to persuade you to sue.

That is absolutely and totally illegal.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 47):

I dont have ages to look for that.

You claimed that people won a suit for such a thing. Are you retracting?
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hawaiian717
Posts: 3139
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: United Airlines Channel 9 - Reasons To Turn Off?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting SQA350 (Reply 31):
I think they normally say that transmitting devices are not allowed to be used during the whole flight.

Recently I've been hearing it as "any device that can transmit or receive a signal".