USADreamliner
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PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:14 pm

Most of state-run Pakistan International Airlines's fleet was grounded and dozens of flights cancelled on Friday as ground engineers took medical leave en masse to press for higher salaries.
According to Karachi airport officials, around 45 of PIA'S domestic flights and five international flights scheduled for Friday had been cancelled by 3 pm.
Nineteen of 42 aircraft were on the ground at airports in Pakistan, while the balance were abroad or in the air.

"Almost all (the) fleet is now on the ground," a PIA official told Reuters.
Passengers told Reuters that they had no news of the flight cancellations until they reached the airport.
Witnessess saw angry passengers shouting at PIA staff at the airport, demanding refunds or information about revised flight schedules.

"PIA is constantly using delay tactics by telling us they have no money," he said.

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articl...15_ISL286382&type=comktNews&rpc=44

[Edited 2007-11-05 09:15:47]

[Edited 2007-11-05 09:16:08]

[Edited 2007-11-05 09:17:00]
 
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Qatara340
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:26 pm

19 AIRCRAFT!! That is serious stuff! PIA should get its acts together. Its shame to see this airline go down the drain this way...
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
ikramerica
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:29 pm

Considering the state of affairs in that nation, is it a smart time to be doing this?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:29 pm

Quoting USADreamliner (Thread starter):
Most of state-run Pakistan International Airlines's fleet was grounded and dozens of flights cancelled on Friday as ground engineers took medical leave en masse to press for higher salaries.
According to Karachi airport officials, around 45 of PIA'S domestic flights and five international flights scheduled for Friday had been cancelled by 3 pm.
Nineteen of 42 aircraft were on the ground at airports in Pakistan, while the balance were abroad or in the

Wow! Can they really do that with their country in a state of emergency.....?
 
AT
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:32 pm

Are all the engineers on strike or only some of them?
If the former, then wouldn't the entire airline operations come to a halt?
 
roseflyer
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:15 pm

PIA is overall a disaster. They have been purchasing brand new planes, but still operate old outdated planes.

They've had a partial ban by the EU.

Now maintenance and support strikes.

It confuses me how the current management can even be there. But alas, PIA isn't run by the same economic factors that most airlines are. They won't just fire executives and bring new ones that know how to fix the airline. I would think that PIA would need consultants from Lufthansa Technik or a similar company like the one that Boeing has set up to come in and overhaul the business.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
imiakhtar
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting AT (Reply 4):
Are all the engineers on strike or only some of them?
If the former, then wouldn't the entire airline operations come to a halt?

From what i have read elsewhere, the engineers are no longer on strike and operations are returning to normal.
Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky?
 
prebennorholm
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:19 am

New and very expensive planes for their long haul. High out of pocket costs.

State run airline. With the current state of politics in the country, if I was offered the job as PIA sales manager, would I rush out quit my current job?  no 

High military investments and costs to drain state money tank.

$584m of red ink for nine months - that's minus $18.5m per plane on a 12 months basis - that's way more than the residue value of most of their fleet - ATRs, old B733, A310!

That's losing fifty thousand US dollars per plane per day. There is something completely off track. How can they pay salaries?

Either we will soon hear more bad news about PIA, or those Pakistanis, who pay tax, should prepare for a surprise.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
jacobin777
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:47 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
PIA is overall a disaster. They have been purchasing brand new planes, but still operate old outdated planes.

....with the removal of the B737's soon and the incoming A32X's by 2009, and with the retirement of many of their B747's..PK's fleet average will be less than 10 years old.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):

They've had a partial ban by the EU.

...which has been lifted.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):

It confuses me how the current management can even be there.

....they have new management...

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
They won't just fire executives and bring new ones that know how to fix the airline

...see above...

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 7):
$584m of red ink for nine months

..try asking the US legacies just a few years ago as to how bad they were doing...

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Considering the state of affairs in that nation, is it a smart time to be doing this?

..all airports are running as scheduled...
"Up the Irons!"
 
prebennorholm
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 7):
$584m of red ink for nine months

..try asking the US legacies just a few years ago as to how bad they were doing...

Scaling this PIA money-bleed to a US legacy major with 500 planes, it would spell something like minus $10bn/yr. None of them would have survived that.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
jacobin777
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 9):

Scaling this PIA money-bleed to a US legacy major with 500 planes, it would spell something like minus $10bn/yr. None of them would have survived that.

...........ratio-wise, PK's losses aren't as massive as the legacies....where they were losing a few billion/year....PK's biggest problem is the fact they have twice the amount of employees/plane than even the best carriers in the world do. If they can eliminate that, their losses will be much smaller.
"Up the Irons!"
 
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alberchico
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 10):
....PK's biggest problem is the fact they have twice the amount of employees/plane than even the best carriers in the world do. If they can eliminate that, their losses will be much smaller.

That will only change if they privatize. Most state run airlines suffer from these defencies......
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
wdleiser
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:48 am

They also have extremely corrupt management and a very corrupt government.
 
SRMD11
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:10 am

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 12):
They also have extremely corrupt management and a very corrupt government.

If this would be like you mention, then Boeing would have a corrupt management also. It allways needs two... please think twice before you make such a ignorant statement!
 
scouseflyer
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:19 am

I would of thought with what's going on in Pakistan atm a strike would be the least of their worries - they could end up with being banned from flying to most countries in the near future and that's not going to help with profits!
 
jacobin777
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 11):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 10):
....PK's biggest problem is the fact they have twice the amount of employees/plane than even the best carriers in the world do. If they can eliminate that, their losses will be much smaller.

That will only change if they privatize. Most state run airlines suffer from these defencies......

...yes, I've been saying that practically on every PK thread.... Smile

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 12):
They also have extremely corrupt management

..this new management isn't too corrupt, though its still not able to efficiently function due in no part of PK being a govt.-owned carrier...

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 14):
I would of thought with what's going on in Pakistan atm a strike would be the least of their worries - they could end up with being banned from flying to most countries in the near future and that's not going to help with profits!

..as long as security checks, m/x. etc is properly done, I see no reason why PK can't continue to fly to other countries.
"Up the Irons!"
 
scouseflyer
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:59 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
..as long as security checks, m/x. etc is properly done, I see no reason why PK can't continue to fly to other countries.

I wasn't thinking of it from a mx poitn of view - rather that there is a strong possibility of sanctions being imposed on them due to the political situation and this may included travel restrictions - or more damaging could be if the US banned spares from being imported?
 
SKA380
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:22 am

WOW!

Mechanics taking sick leaves in masses to get their will?

Seems like someone is "pulling a SAS"  Smile
 
777way
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:13 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):

It confuses me how the current management can even be there.

....they have new management...

New management have been in place since quite a while so it makes them current.
 
jacobin777
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:18 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 16):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
..as long as security checks, m/x. etc is properly done, I see no reason why PK can't continue to fly to other countries.

I wasn't thinking of it from a mx poitn of view - rather that there is a strong possibility of sanctions being imposed on them due to the political situation and this may included travel restrictions - or more damaging could be if the US banned spares from being imported?

.....sanctions are a very far cry at this point in time....

Quoting 777way (Reply 18):

New management have been in place since quite a while so it makes them current.

While it is "current" under the strictest sense..it has been only 5-6 months..that certainly isn't enough time to turn around a company, let alone something as complicated as PK.. Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
Burkhard
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:59 pm

If I see correctly, the current president of Pakistan has revolted against his own country, the constitution is suspended, the supreme court closed, because his reelection was against the constitution.

So, while this officially looks like a protest for more payment, is their contribution to fight against establishment of a dictatorship by their current president, who is replacing the democracy by an islamic dictatorship, and this backed by this stupid US government because he is from another islamic tribe as the Talibans .
 
jacobin777
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:23 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 20):
So, while this officially looks like a protest for more payment, is their contribution to fight against establishment of a dictatorship by their current president, who is replacing the democracy by an islamic dictatorship, and this backed by this stupid US government because he is from another islamic tribe as the Talibans .

..in a word.."no"... Smile It is a protest due to lack of increase in pay which has been happening for years. The timing is a bit questionable, but it was independent of the current political situation.
"Up the Irons!"
 
georgiaame
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:31 pm

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 7):
That's losing fifty thousand US dollars per plane per day

Do I smell a potential merger with Alitalia, they seem to have a good deal in common? If the situation weren't so serious for the planet, my sarcasm might actually be humorous.  crazy 
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
777way
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:19 pm

I feel PIA ia deliberately being made to go down so it can be privatised, you all dont know governmet job holders psyche, PK employees will never let the airline be privatised and risk losing their cushy jobs as long as its doing well, the only way it can be privatised is if its hits an all time low then the employess cannot protest against it being sold off.

Why should PIA be privatised if can do well even under govt. ownership? because the standard of the airline will always be at stake with who comes to power and gets their people in, so one govt. might help it become like Emirates the next to could fuick it up byt putting in useless people.
 
N5716b
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:30 pm

Quoting Burkhart (Reply 20):
So, while this officially looks like a protest for more payment, is their contribution to fight against establishment of a dictatorship by their current president, who is replacing the democracy by an islamic dictatorship, and this backed by this stupid US government because he is from another islamic tribe as the Talibans .

Congratulations! I didn't think it was possible for anyone to try to blame the US on this one, but you've somehow managed to pull it off!

You can expect your prize (an all-expenses paid trip on PIA to Karachi) in the mail in 2-4 weeks.

Sheesh.
Bring back the L-1011!
 
BigTom
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:44 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 20):

So, while this officially looks like a protest for more payment, is their contribution to fight against establishment of a dictatorship by their current president, who is replacing the democracy by an islamic dictatorship, and this backed by this stupid US government because he is from another islamic tribe as the Talibans .

Musharraf from another Islamic tribe? That's a new one! Pakistan might be a dicatatorship but in no way can you call it an Islamic dictatorship. In fact Musharraf has his hands full with fighting Talibanesque elements in the tribal areas. Well, we all hope the Pakistanis can sort their problems out soon. But for people to begin to talk about sanctions is extremely premature, and flight bans c'mon! In the end if this kind of thinking is prevalent the "civilised" world will soon see no flights from all our countries.

Cheers
 
SCUMBAG
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:53 pm

Is this not martal law? One could be pulled out into street and get a good cane across his asp, then he would surely need a medical leave. Back to work for now guys, as soon as the way is over you can get sick.
 
777way
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:16 pm

On a positive note PIA Cargo have launched service to Hahn under ACMI deal with MNG Airlines, operated with A300F Lahore-Istabnbul-Hahn.
 
jacobin777
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:31 pm

Quoting N5716B (Reply 24):
You can expect your prize (an all-expenses paid trip on PIA to Karachi) in the mail in 2-4 weeks.

..much better than an all-expenses paid trip to just north of KATL... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
777way
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:42 pm

PIA Cargo have also stopped operating to Cologne and Luton, their contract with MNG has been terminated since mid September, so no Hahn happening.

Quoting 777way (Reply 27):
On a positive note PIA Cargo have launched service to Hahn under ACMI deal with MNG Airlines, operated with A300F Lahore-Istabnbul-Hahn.
 
threepoint
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:08 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 3):
Wow! Can they really do that with their country in a state of emergency.....?

Well, they did, so there's the answer.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 16):
there is a strong possibility of sanctions being imposed on them due to the political situation and this may included travel restrictions - or more damaging could be if the US banned spares from being imported?

I doubt it. Imposing sanctions against Iran is one thing, but Pakistan, despite its current situation, is a very big ally in the region for the US. If they alienated this country, the US would be in for a world of grief. And they know it.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
A380BWI
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:34 am

PK PK PK.......there is a lot one can say about this airline. Keeps posting losses...hmmmmm i wonder why. Aircraft damages, strikes, corruption on all levels, over staffed (according to a survey 40%), worse record on maintenance (caused cancellations on EU routes), hefty paychecks for the management despite losses and on and on and on.
PK is considering selling its one of the major revenue generating source known as The Roosevelt Hotel in NY. Not finalized yet. Some of the shares are owned by some Saudi Prince but mostly PK has the control. The reason behind this decision............. PK can get the amount into billions of dollars (yep thats correct billions of dollars) by selling it and can use that money to reorganize its efforts to bring life to its dying name. But this is just an excuse........Even if PK sells this property, looking at the history since 1985 till today this money will be gone before anyone knows it thus resulting a lost income source.
PK needs a huge cutback in man power. Needs to retrain its ramp agents (even if they have contracted ramp), serious cut back in salaries, hire someone who knows what he is doing to do the planing, improve their customer service from the ticket counters to the flight attendants (who acts like they own the world) and negotiate a better deal with their union and bound them from going on unnecessary strikes. Is anyone within PK has the ability to do it?????? I seriously doubted. They need some one from outside, some one without any affiliations to any political parties.......who takes this job only for the sole reason to bring PK back to high skies and its old and quickly fading glory.
 
cricket
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:45 am

Silly question - How will the Pakistani cricket team get back from India if this goes on - IC?

But I also think the timing is quite strange given current political events in Pakistan.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
777way
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:10 pm

Cricket team uses PIA.

Latest update that all 747s may be pulled out of service after Hajj operations from 24 January, apparently confirmed by a Pilot.
 
jacobin777
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:26 pm

Quoting A380BWI (Reply 31):
The Roosevelt Hotel in NY. Not finalized yet. Some of the shares are owned by some Saudi Prince but mostly PK has the control.

..IIRC, they aren't going to be selling that hotel for a while.

While their losses is nothing to be proud of, its been approximately $1 billion total the past couple of years.

Regardless, they need to make some serious changes. I don't see anything happening however until the elections in February.
"Up the Irons!"
 
CPH757
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:57 pm

Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 13):
If this would be like you mention, then Boeing would have a corrupt management also. It allways needs two... please think twice before you make such a ignorant statement!

Excuse me, but Wdleiser doesn't make an ignorant statements, he acusses the Pakistani government and PIA management for being corrupt. Although I have no facts on hand, I would be very surprised if corruption does not occur within these two bodies!

This doesn't make Boieng corrupt though, that's a very unfair twist. What does Boeing necessarily have to do with corrupt managers pulling the passengers money out to their own account? Is 3M also a corrupt company if PIA uses post-it-notes? Is the Danish government corrupt for giving foreign aid to corrupt African countries?

Quoting SKA380 (Reply 17):
Seems like someone is "pulling a SAS"

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
 
777way
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:18 pm

Passenger services to Frankfurt to resume soon, lets see how soon that is, Cargo flights through MNG were being operated to hahn and not Cologne.

A poster here quoted Newsweek as stating Pakistan is more dangerous than Iraq and Iran, not according to this article by a British reporter http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme..._our_own_correspondent/7090632.stm
 
jacobin777
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RE: PIA Cancels Flights, 19 Aircrafts Grounded

Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:41 pm



Quoting 777way (Reply 36):
Passenger services to Frankfurt to resume soon

..lots of competition now with LH.....lets hope PK does well...

Quoting 777way (Reply 36):

A poster here quoted Newsweek as stating Pakistan is more dangerous than Iraq and Iran, not according to this article by a British reporter http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme..._our_own_correspondent/7090632.stm

..most people are clueless when it comes to the beauty and history of Pakistan, especially Northern Pakistan.....
"Up the Irons!"

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