kl911
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Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:18 pm

P@erson, come back soon please!

meanwhile:

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news....r=07&month=nov&story=reg-en-051107


RYANAIR’S HALF YEAR PROFITS RISE 24% TO RECORD €408M

RAISES FULL YEAR GUIDANCE TO €470M.


Ryanair, Europe’s largest international airline, today (5 November) announced record half year after tax profits of €408m, a 24% increase over last year. Traffic grew by 20% to 26.6m and yields fell by 1% as revenues rose by 24% to €1,554m. Unit costs increased by 5%, mainly due to higher fuel, staff, and airport costs. Despite these higher costs, Ryanair maintained an industry leading after tax margin of 26%.



RYANAIR’S PROFITS RISE 24% TO RECORD €408M




KL911

[Edited 2007-11-05 11:18:52]
 
kl911
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Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:23 pm

And to all you FR bashers, a 20% increase in passenger numbers means they're not as bad as some of the spoiled business class kids here make it sound.....


Announcing these results Ryanair’s CEO, Michael O'Leary, said:

“These record profits reflect a 20% growth in passenger volumes, a 1% decline in yields, and strong ancillary growth. Ancillary revenues grew by 54% to €252m, due to improved penetration of car hire, hotels, travel insurance, as well as strong onboard sales and excess baggage revenues. Ancillaries now account for just over 16% of total revenues as we make steady progress towards our 20% target. Our inflight mobile phone service will be tested on 25 aircraft before the end of March 2008 which will allow passengers to make and receive calls and texts on their mobile phones and blackberrys.




And to be honoust, even executives of my biggest business clients book FR every now and then on easy point to point routes.

KL911
 
Delta777Jet
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Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:52 pm

affordable and almost always on time or earlier than scheduled, perfect !
B-717/722/737-200/300/400/500/600/700/800/900/B-747-100/200/400/SP/8i/B-752/3/B-762/3/4/B-772/LR/300ER/B-788/DC-10-10/30/L-1011-1/500/MD-81/82/83/90/A-319/320/321/AB6/312/313/332/333/342/343/346/359/388/TU154/IL-18/ATR-42/72/DH4/DH3/E145/E170/190/CR2/7/9
 
PlaneHunter
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Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
And to all you FR bashers, a 20% increase in passenger numbers means they're not as bad as some of the spoiled business class kids here make it sound.....

Get over it - FR may attract many pax, but it doesn't work for anyone. No need to start pre-emptive attacks at all those who criticize the carrier or prefer to fly others.  Yeah sure

Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
And to be honoust, even executives of my biggest business clients book FR every now and then on easy point to point routes.

Why wouldn't they?


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
kl911
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Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:14 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 3):
Get over it - FR may attract many pax, but it doesn't work for anyone

Works perfectly for me, my friends and my family... So please speak for yourself. I´m very happy FR made aviation the way it is now.
 
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Tugger
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Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:21 pm

I don't know ANY airline executive that could or would complain about €408m in PROFIT! I mean, my god, that is amazing! Way more that Southwest, RyanAir's muse. I can't see how any airline would be able to resist the move "down class" with profits like this. And how does this do for people who claim that F class passengers are the most important? Sounds like coach makes a lot of money and maybe actually supports an airline.

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
PlaneHunter
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Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:29 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 5):
Sounds like coach makes a lot of money and maybe actually supports an airline.

That depends on the business model.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
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Tugger
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Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:37 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 6):
That depends on the business model.

Very true. But a business model that has half-year profits of €408m is hard to argue with.

Regardless, I am still impressed with it. What is so different between Ryan and SWA that leads to such whopping differences when they are in theory based on a similar business model (Yes, I know I am asking a loaded question)?

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Delta777Jet
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Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:40 pm

PlaneHunter: Nobody will force you to fly with Ryanair. You can continue to pay ridiculous prices for same or less comfort. In recent past, I paid thousands to get around and since a year or so, Ryanair is also serving the markets I need. Since then I have huge savings of 80 % and more and on my last 30 Ryanair flights, I had only one time a delay of 15 minutes. .

I like it very much to check-in online, drive to regional airport with online boarding pass and to walk 5 minutes to the gate to immediate board the plane which is of course on time. At some airports I can see my car from the aircraft window.

Sorry, but this is a great concept ! By the way I also like to purchase and select my own food on board.
B-717/722/737-200/300/400/500/600/700/800/900/B-747-100/200/400/SP/8i/B-752/3/B-762/3/4/B-772/LR/300ER/B-788/DC-10-10/30/L-1011-1/500/MD-81/82/83/90/A-319/320/321/AB6/312/313/332/333/342/343/346/359/388/TU154/IL-18/ATR-42/72/DH4/DH3/E145/E170/190/CR2/7/9
 
kl911
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Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:42 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 7):
. What is so different between Ryan and SWA that leads to such whopping differences when they are in theory based on a similar business model

Ryanair:

Ancillary revenues grew by 54% to €252m, due to improved penetration of car hire, hotels, travel insurance, as well as strong onboard sales and excess baggage revenues. Ancillaries now account for just over 16% of total revenues as we make steady progress towards our 20% target.


KL911
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: RYANAIR’S Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:07 pm

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 8):
Nobody will force you to fly with Ryanair. You can continue to pay ridiculous prices for same or less comfort.

Who says that I do? And no, "comfort" is not the only benefit that others have to offer.

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 8):
In recent past, I paid thousands to get around and since a year or so, Ryanair is also serving the markets I need.

When talking about your own personal situation you should also consider that there are other people in different personal situations...

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 8):
Sorry, but this is a great concept !

No doubt about that, but I still prefer the Southwest or jetBlue LCC models. Unfortunately, these are not available in Europe.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
aerohottie
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:13 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 7):
Very true. But a business model that has half-year profits of €408m is hard to argue with.

SQ, BA, QF and CX would agrue with it....
What?
 
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Tugger
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:23 pm

SQ, BA, QF and CX would agrue with it....[/quote]
Well according to SQ their half-year profit is only €445m.

From Yahoo finance:

Quote:
Wednesday October 31, 11:22 PM
Singapore Airlines' profit soars

Singapore Airlines (SIA) said Wednesday net profit soared 73.2 percent over the three months to September compared with a year ago due to buoyant travel demand.

But despite those fiscal second quarter figures SIA, the first airline to commercially operate the Airbus A380 superjumbo, said slowing economic growth had cast a cloud over prospects.

ADVERTISEMENT
Net profit totalled 507.8 million Singapore dollars (350.66 million US), up from 293.2 million dollars a year ago, the company said in a statement to the stock exchange.

Revenue rose 9.9 percent to 3.97 billion dollars from 3.61 billion dollars in the same period last year.

"Passenger demand from both business and leisure markets remained buoyant in the second quarter, pushing passenger load factor to 81.6 percent," the airline said.

For the six months to September, net profit was 931.9 million dollars, up 7.32 percent over the same period the previous year, on revenue of 7.59 billion dollars, up 8.0 percent.

SIA, one of the world's most profitable airlines, on October 25 became the first airline in the world to commercially operate the double-decker A380 when it launched a flight to Sydney and back.

It won good reviews for its luxurious and more spacious interior that includes private cabins with full-length beds.

But the airline said the outlook was challenging and could affect revenues.

"While advanced bookings are holding up, slowing economic growth sparked by tight credit markets and increasing volatility in financial markets cast a cloud of uncertainty over the strong revenue environment," it said.

"On the cost side, the price of fuel remains a significant variable for the second half of the year," it said, referring to surging oil prices.

SIA raised fuel surcharges on October 24 to partially offset an increase in jet fuel prices.

Its shares rose 20 cents to close at 19.60 dollars on Wednesday.

Which while more is not that much more, especially when you consider how much bigger they are and fleet costs.

Tug

[Edited 2007-11-05 14:25:58]
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:46 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 12):
Which while more is not that much more, especially when you consider how much bigger they are and fleet costs.

People always forget that Ryanair is the largest European carrier. Ryanair also has way more planes then Singapore Airlines has. Ryanair has so much cash that they could easily buy BA-IB-AZ which are all loss making companies.

While BA has posted profits this year, that still doesn´t get them clear from their enormous debts. They have to lower their cost basis, the same as KL-AF and LH. Nobody needs C/class anymore for flights up to 4 or 5 hours. Most of the time those seats are the same anyway within europe.

The US can learn from that and throw First class out of the window. Something most US carriers don´t even offer transatlantic..

KL911
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 7):
What is so different between Ryan and SWA that leads to such whopping differences when they are in theory based on a similar business model (Yes, I know I am asking a loaded question)?

Besides the ancillary revenues, as previously noted, Ryanair takes the no-frills approach far farther than Southwest does. Ryanair charges (and charges more, in many cases) for many services that are included in the ticket price on Southwest. They also run with a far leaner HR structure, a simpler fleet, and much shorter stage lengths. Ryanair also does not place any premium on customer service, which is a Southwest staple.

Tom.
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 13):
People always forget that Ryanair is the largest European carrier.

Since when exactly?

Quoting KL911 (Reply 13):
Ryanair also has way more planes then Singapore Airlines has.

Apples and oranges comparison.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 13):
Ryanair has so much cash that they could easily buy BA-IB-AZ which are all loss making companies.

While BA has posted profits this year, that still doesn´t get them clear from their enormous debts.

Having debts and making loss is a difference.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 13):
Nobody needs C/class anymore for flights up to 4 or 5 hours.

That's your personal opinion. Do you also want to tell people they don't need a BMW but a Seat for 10 to 30 minutes drives?

Quoting KL911 (Reply 13):
Most of the time those seats are the same anyway within europe.

Flying biz is not only about seats.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 13):
The US can learn from that and throw First class out of the window.

What exactly is the "US"?

Quoting KL911 (Reply 13):
Something most US carriers don´t even offer transatlantic..

There's a significant difference between domestic First and international First class...


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
sevenair
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:42 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
And to be honoust, even executives of my biggest business clients book FR every now and then on easy point to point routes.

I love it when smart @ss people think they are clever flying with a full service airline via Heathrow. It takes 3 times a long, is twice the hassle and many times the cost. FR is a very smart choice for businesspeople. Even if you don't get those soggy sandwiches. And knowing you have more chance of arriving at your destination ontime (with your bags!) is surely the most important thing for a businessperson.
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:50 am

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 16):
I love it when smart @ss people think they are clever flying with a full service airline via Heathrow. It takes 3 times a long, is twice the hassle and many times the cost. FR is a very smart choice for businesspeople. Even if you don't get those soggy sandwiches. And knowing you have more chance of arriving at your destination ontime (with your bags!) is surely the most important thing for a businessperson.

What I find amusing is that certain people here seem to think FR or other LCCs are the most convenient choice in general - it depends on many aspects whether airline A or airline B is the smartest choice for a traveler. That black-and-white-talk by pro-FR and anti-FR people is simply ridiculous.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
sevenair
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:32 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 17):
What I find amusing is that certain people here seem to think FR or other LCCs are the most convenient choice in general - it depends on many aspects whether airline A or airline B is the smartest choice for a traveler. That black-and-white-talk by pro-FR and anti-FR people is simply ridiculous.

Well, flying direct is way more convenient that switching once, or twice. And as my post clearly states, there are many other benefits of flying an LCC. As a businessperson, time is surely very precious. So, getting a plane direct from my local airport (NCL), going on one plane, and getting to my destination in just a couple of hours is great. No hassle of changing and wasted time. This is particularly true of easyJet at NCL - who fly to the main airports of many of the large cities on the mainland.

This is also true of KL, AF and LH all of who fly direct to majoy cities in their respective countries. Flying direct is way more convenient, it just happens that most direct routes to the mainland are on an LCC. So flying NCL-PRG, is way more convenient than flying NCL-XXX-PRG. There is also less chance of anything going wrong, such as a missed connection or lost bag.

Could you please define some of the many aspects of whether airline A or airline B is the smartest choice for a traveller?
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:03 pm

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 18):
As a businessperson, time is surely very precious. So, getting a plane direct from my local airport (NCL), going on one plane, and getting to my destination in just a couple of hours is great. No hassle of changing and wasted time. This is particularly true of easyJet at NCL - who fly to the main airports of many of the large cities on the mainland.

That's great if NCL is your home airport.

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 18):
Could you please define some of the many aspects of whether airline A or airline B is the smartest choice for a traveller?

Distance to airport (LCC airports are not necessarily closer), frequent flyer program involvement, fare flexibility, comfort and service (there are still airlines with resonable offerings in Euro biz class), destination and frequencies (e.g. easier re-bookings), customer care (in cases of diversion, cancelation, luggage loss etc.) are some aspects which may be more or less important.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
strudders
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:48 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 13):
While BA has posted profits this year, that still doesn´t get them clear from their enormous debts. They have to lower their cost basis, the same as KL-AF and LH. Nobody needs C/class anymore for flights up to 4 or 5 hours. Most of the time those seats are the same anyway within europe.

Data from:

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...ID=66144+02-Nov-2007+RNS&type=qcna


BA posted a £593 million (€ 853.581) Profit for the same period (this is pre tax not post)

There net Debt is £1.4 Billion (€ 2,015.20)

There net Cash is £1.8 Billion (€ 2,590.97)

with revenue for the 6 months of £3.9 Billion (€ 5,613.77)

BA's fuel bill is more that FR's revenue for the same period. 2.0 Billion (€ 2,878.86)

BA's revenue is nearly 5 times as much as FR whilst carrying a smaller amount of people.

FR and BA are two completely different business models. So please dont make out that BA or any of the other large european carriers are somehow inferior in both terms of cost base or product.

I know who I would like to travel to AMS or MLA on.

Its horses for courses.

However as much as it pains me well done FR and MOL (dam thats 2 things I have said nice about them this week)

Best Regards

Struds
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:09 pm

Update:


Ryanair anounced a growth in passenger numbers of 21% in October 07 compared to Oct.2006. It carried this month 4.42 million pax. Loadfactor grew as well to 85% average.

Source: (Dutch only, sorry..)

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=23053

KL911
 
JJJ
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:22 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 13):
BA-IB-AZ which are all loss making companies

IB is consistently posting profits for many years now.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 10):
No doubt about that, but I still prefer the Southwest or jetBlue LCC models. Unfortunately, these are not available in Europe

Vueling is very much that, although they're far from healthy at the moment and don't serve any German or British destination.
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:32 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 22):
Quoting KL911 (Reply 13):
BA-IB-AZ which are all loss making companies

IB is consistently posting profits for many years now.

My excuses, you're right. I meant that they all have debts.

KL911
 
Aisak
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:24 pm

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 16):
FR is a very smart choice for businesspeople.

When you are really close to a FR airport and your business is close to a FR airports served non-stop from your FR airport.

Tell anyone in Bilbao to drive to SDR closest FR airport to fly to STN, go quickly from the arrivals hall to check-in for the second flight to GNB to finally get somehow to Lyon. He'll choose BIO-XXX-LYS on any legacy before FR no matter the cost.

And bear in mind that unless you live next to a FR base your choice of flights (and destinations) is rather limited

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 16):
And knowing you have more chance of arriving at your destination ontime (with your bags!) is surely the most important thing for a businessperson.

It's all about statistics yes. But sometimes the risk is way too high. Imagine getting up early on a Sunday morning to get to BVA at 7 am to check-in for your return flight to MAD suppossed to take off at 9 am. Imagine the inbound flight is delayed to any other airport (Lille or CDG) and FR doesn't even let you take the diverted flight from the other airport. Your only options are a refund or rebooking onto Tuesday or even Wednesday when you're supposed to be in Spain by Monday morning. That happened to 170 people on October 14th, and even it's only 1 out of 730 segments on the MAD-BVA-MAD runs I don't know how honorable is to say they add a 0,001% cancelation rate on the route statistics.

Also the "with your bags" is kind of a joke, isn't it? After you've paid 3 Euros because you have a bag to check-in, maybe just because you have contacts liquids that could expode under the new EU regulations, 85 bags out of 100.000 bags were mislaid in August based on FR webpage. So you only carry people (and their previously paid luggage) strictly from point A to point B with no other handling "features" and still 0.085% of baggage go missing? I simply hope they're delivered anywhere the passenger wants. I don't want to fly from an airport 100+ kms from home just to be phoned on arrival to get back to the airport for my clothes.

[Edited 2007-11-06 10:50:13]
 
Joost
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:16 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 23):

My excuses, you're right. I meant that they all have debts.

What's your point with having debts? Almost every airline has debts. Most large companies have debts.

Ryanair has debts as well. To be precise, in September 2007 they had a debt of 1,89 billion Euro (per their balance sheet http://www.ryanair.com/site/about/in...st/docs/present/quarter2_2008.pdf, page 11).

It's not strange at all to have debts: no airline can and will finance it's assets (most notably: it's fleet) all by cash. There are all types of mortages and loans provided to buy the aircraft. It's a very complex accounting-job, but it's very normal.

Debts only become a problem when you cannot pay the monthly rates that you've agreed with the loan provider.
 
ThomasCook
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:27 pm

Hi,

Ryanair are doing well for themselves but their not for me I'm afraid. Customer service counts for everything as far as I am concerned, I've never seen a 'customer' orientated airline tell their customers to 'f**k off' to their faces, yeah you read right!

Give me British Airways anyday!

Kind Regards
ThomasCook
A380 Crew
 
Joost
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:34 pm

Quoting Aisak (Reply 24):
Tell anyone in Bilbao to drive to SDR closest FR airport to fly to STN, go quickly from the arrivals hall to check-in for the second flight to GNB to finally get somehow to Lyon. He'll choose BIO-XXX-LYS on any legacy before FR no matter the cost.

This is not a market Ryanair is offering. They explicitely state that they do not offer connections, and thereby they do not facilitate them by any means. Of course, some people make them on their own, at their own risk, but this is no fair comparison. Of course, hardly anyone would book this trip.

On the other hand, I can perfectly understand somebody who wants to travel from Bilbao to Rome, booking SDR-CIA, instead of BIO-MXP-FCO or BIO-MAD-FCO. This will mostly come down to personal preference (whether someone prefers a longer car drive and a direct flight, or a shorter drive and a connecting flight).

I can also understand someone traveling to Milan, booking SDR-BGY iso BIO-MXP, to drive a bit more to save some money.

Besides that, not everyone in the region lives right next to BIO, isn't it?

Overall, I completely agree with PH: it comes down to personal preference. Some people are most cost-concious than others. And there are of course many people (including myself) who make the choice of airline for every trip again, depending on the destination, the kind of trip, the schedule, etc, etc. So far, I'm happy with Ryanair and will fly them again if it fits in my plans.
 
Joost
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:42 pm

Quoting Aisak (Reply 24):
So you only carry people (and their previously paid luggage) strictly from point A to point B with no other handling "features" and still 0.085% of baggage go missing? I

I guess this is more related to airport handlers than to Ryanair. And that, of course, can happen with every airline. With respect to letting you drive to the airport to get your lost luggage, quite some other airlines won't send it to your home either.

The fact that the nearest Ryanair airport is not close to your home don't make them a bad airline, does it?

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 26):
Customer service counts for everything as far as I am concerned, I've never seen a 'customer' orientated airline tell their customers to 'f**k off' to their faces, yeah you read right!

My personal experience here with Ryanair is quite positive. Last time I flew them, they cancelled my flight because of very dense fog at EIN. The service agents were very helpful and very kind when we needed to re-book our flight. And when I arrived just 1 minute before time at NRN once (we had some car trouble on the way to the airport and just made it) the FR crew was really helpful to check us in om time. Just like any other airline, actually.

Have you had this kind of bad experience yourself?
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:24 pm

Aisak: You answer your question yourself: "85 bags out of 100.000 bags" if there is a passenger who not pay for a bag then there is also no bag, so he is excluded from the above figures as it relates to bags and not to passengers. If you would take the statistic per passenger it would be even much less. I agree, that some outstations from Ryanair are really far off the advertised city, but if you calculate the total time from your doorstep at home until you board the plane and taking the minimum check-in time into account you will probably find out that you have saved time or depending on location just spend a bit more time but saved a lot of money. Normally FR's far out stations are there where big cities are and no really alternate nearby is available. I guess at this big cities main airports, there are also many delays which you must add to your travel time and what you not have at Ryanair stations. Further I found out that the motorways to the regional airports are much less traffic jam affected during peak times than those going in the other direction to midtown or to the main airport.


Planehunter: You still not understanding the reason for a FF programme. I'm a KLM Plat member and I can tell you, that I have never used my miles so far, because the difference between the cheapest fare and the price of an award ticket + taxes is almost the same. This is the same on almost any FF programme. So you can fly cheaper with Ryanair or Easyjet than to fly on a free award ticket. Anyway FF programmes are made to give some benefit to people on business trips who don't pay for their tickets them self. These people are happy and don't care that company is paying and they have a cheaper flight for vacation.This is also the reason why you get less miles for cheaper tickets and full miles for full price tickets. I can imagine some business travellers ordering even the more expensive tickets, just to get the miles on cost of the company. Nowadays, companies and smart business people looking to save on travelling cost as they want to be more competitive and travelling expenses makes a big position in the balance sheet. Some implemented policies for travel up to 3 hours low-cost and for 6+ hours business class or something similar. You stated, there is much more in C-class Europe, could you please explain me what you mean exactly ? Probably the choice between ham and cheese sandwich ? With other airlines I can even choose pizza, if I want to. Can LH offer me such a service even in C class ? For me the service what I can define myself is a much better option.
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kl911
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:19 am

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 29):

That's a perfect reply! I'm totally with it.

I just wish the legacy carriers will abbandon their FF programs. It doesn't make sense to give someone a bonus who travels for free ( company is paying) while someone who does pay for it pays way to much to support the costs of such expensive FF programs.

KL911
 
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Tugger
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 30):
I just wish the legacy carriers will abbandon their FF programs. It doesn't make sense to give someone a bonus who travels for free ( company is paying) while someone who does pay for it pays way to much to support the costs of such expensive FF programs.

But the fact that it is "free" to the traveler is exactly WHY they need the FF programs: It is what distinguishes each airline option from the other, When there is no "cost difference" to the traveler it is the perks and amenities that sway the decision.

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:50 am

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 29):
You still not understanding the reason for a FF programme.

Of course not, just like hundreds of thousands worldwide travelers either - in contrast to all these smart people flying LCCs who have a clue, of course...  Yeah sure

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 29):
Nowadays, companies and smart business people looking to save on travelling cost as they want to be more competitive and travelling expenses makes a big position in the balance sheet.

Fine, then acccording to your theory, let's wait until all non-LCCs go out of business soon because so many companies don't book flights on these useless carriers any more...  Yeah sure

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 29):
Probably the choice between ham and cheese sandwich ?

I guess that argument can only be used by people who have no clue about traveling in C class...

Quoting KL911 (Reply 30):
I just wish the legacy carriers will abbandon their FF programs.

Reminds me of demands from other people to abolish SUVs, sports cars or heavy limousines because those are so useless...what comes next? One travel class for everyone?  Yeah sure

Quoting KL911 (Reply 30):
It doesn't make sense to give someone a bonus who travels for free ( company is paying) while someone who does pay for it pays way to much to support the costs of such expensive FF programs.

Ah, so a company doesn't count as paying customer, I see.  Yeah sure


Again I can only wonder about the arrogance of some people who are convinced that their own personal preference must be good enough for everyone else. Reminds me so much of the former GDR - a relatively small group of people also "knew well" for decades what was the best way of living for millions of their countrymen...


PH
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tdscanuck
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 15):
Quoting KL911 (Reply 13):
People always forget that Ryanair is the largest European carrier.

Since when exactly?

Depending on which metric you use, since 2005. That year they were they carried the largest number of international passengers of any airline.

Tom.
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: Ryanair's Profits Rise 24% To Record €408M!

Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:12 am

Planehunter: I'm a member in some FF programmes as well, the reason for it is, that it comes for free and there is no real disadvantage to do so, but also no real perk other than some free drinks in a lounge, priority boarding etc. What means free, you have paid for this services as they are included in your ticket and the other travellers as well. Would the ticket be cheaper I don't need the lounge, priority boarding for short flights within Europe and I think 99 % of the travellers in Europe will confirm this statement. Nowadays you can't await anything from a FF programme and the perks will continue to get worse year by year. It is simple, because the miles credited to the account of the members need to be accounted in the balance sheet as a liability. How much one mile is accounted in Dollars or value depends on the policy and perks of the airline offers to the travellers in exchange for miles. A way how to increase profit and decrease liabilities is therefore, to make awards more expensive, increase taxes on tickets and to delete other perks which cost money to the airline. And this is also exactly what happens. And yes Planehunter, every company in the World want to increase their profits and want to reduce un-necessary cost and therefore is open for anything which lowers the overhead because, it must stay competitive. Some companies of course have no real competitors and swimming in money and they would be probaly the last to think over it. So don't worry, some customers will continue to fly with legacy airlines. Just recently, I read here on this forum that a survey found out, that there are more wealthy people flying Ryanair than British Airways and this will continue. Why do you think that Lufthansa opened Germanwings, British Airways sold GB Airways and Connect etc. etc. its because inside Europe it is very hard to earn money in a very expensive environment and these airlines can not keep up with low fare airlines. This trend will continue and not so far in the future you will see no real operated by Lufthansa or BA flights within short distance Europe. This will be done by either their LCC subsidiary or will be outsourced. By the way, I have been on many C-Class flights inside Europe when there was not a big difference between full Y or C and I can tell you, I regret even to have paid only 20 EUR more for such bad experience. The only airline where I got a larger seat and much better service inside Europe was Czech Airlines and all others making no difference other than a sandwich and the hope that a potential middle seat stays free.

To fly longhaul is of course a completely different story and I will continue to fly business and first, because that is a huge difference and only a legacy carrier can offer me this service.
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