ricardofg
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:09 am

EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:46 am

Well week one is complete in YYZ...with over 95% load factor, and very heavy cargo loads...I was speaking to a couple of EK's people from around the globe, and many of them say the same thing...Emirates goal for Toronto is Daily A380 service by 2010. This is the first I have heard of a possible A380 in YYZ, and seeing how loads have started, it is a possibility!
 
AF340
Posts: 2267
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:57 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:51 am

Quoting RicardoFG (Thread starter):
Emirates goal for Toronto is Daily A380 service by 2010.

I really really really hope that happens! Maybe we could beat YUL for scheduled service...

AF340
 
heathrow
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:33 pm

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:59 am

that'd be great. Maybe DXB - YUL - YYZ with 388 ? I looked to book EK, and if I could find an openning at all, it was only first class with a ridiculous flight. Too bad, I wanted to try them.....
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting RicardoFG (Thread starter):
Well week one is complete in YYZ...with over 95% load factor, and very heavy cargo loads

The Canadian Government has been saying that they will consider opening/expanding the bilateral based on the prevailing success of the thrice-weekly operation. It's absolutely no surprise that they've been running at 95% L-F's. Historically threre has been so much EK interlined traffic via LHR/FRA/ZRH that it was a given that YYZ was chomping at the bit for a direct flight with virtual guaranteed success. Think it's only a matter of time that QR will be knocking on the door as well. Having a presence of 4 & 5 star airlines on our home turf will hopefully force the rest of us to raise the bar (on service) as well.
Above and Beyond
 
pnwtraveler
Posts: 1067
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:12 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:54 am

Daily A380 service is quite the jump in volume. Once the bilateral is in place and if that level of demand is in place AC won't be far behind with service. Businessmen with Star Alliance dependence will have a hard time giving up those long haul points. Does anyone know how Etihads is doing and what the loads are?
 
AF340
Posts: 2267
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:57 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 4):
Does anyone know how Etihads is doing and what the loads are?

They are at 86% load factors for YYZ last quarter.

http://www.travelmole.com/stories/1123531.php?mpnlog=1

AF340
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 3):
The Canadian Government has been saying that they will consider opening/expanding the bilateral based on the prevailing success of the thrice-weekly operation.

Hopefully Canada will also consider the human rights record of Dubai, which is barbaric by any Western standard, before extending more landing rights.

Landing rights are a political as well as economic issue. Canada should press the point before allowing EK carte blanche into YYZ.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
sebring
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 3):

The Canadian Government has been saying that they will consider opening/expanding the bilateral based on the prevailing success of the thrice-weekly operation

The government said last month this is not a priority.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):

Hopefully Canada will also consider the human rights record of Dubai, which is barbaric by any Western standard, before extending more landing rights.

Politics is rearing its head in this bilateral, and the Conservatives, rightly so, appear to be digging in their heels.

It's also worth reminding all that Canada's Blue Sky program includes a number of caveats which I think were crafted specifically to deal with situations like the UAE that might flood the market with capacity:




Issues that can be considered in bilateral requests include


-Canadian airline and airport priorities and interests;

-Likelihood and extent of new Canadian and foreign carrier services, giving preference where early startup of air services is planned;

-Bilateral irritants and disputes.

In other limited situations, the Government may determine that it would not be in Canada’s best interests to negotiate an Open Skies-type agreement. Considerations that could influence Canada’s approach to bilateral air negotiations include:

-the ability of Canadian airlines to operate services is severely limited by discriminatory airport access and/or facilitation issues;

-the “doing business” environment (e.g., transfer of funds, provisions on double taxation) presents major obstacles to Canadian airlines’ commercial operations;

-the foreign carrier(s) appears not to be behaving in accordance with rational business principles or is protected from normal market disciplines, resulting in a markedly unbalanced playing field vis-à-vis Canadian airlines;

-and the foreign carrier(s) would be reasonably expected to offer a level of service to such an extent that competition in some markets/routes would be significantly reduced or effectively eliminated – resulting in a net loss for Canada.




For those thinking of a daily A380, note the last para above.
 
haan
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:18 pm

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:56 am

I can see Emirates going to YYZ daily, just as soon as they can get more aircraft. Curently the flighst are all fully booked for December and January. Good for emirates, bad for staff.
 
Emirates773ER
Posts: 1318
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:10 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:23 am

I am trying to find a seat in december but they are booked solid for the next couple of months. Looks like my only chance is in business, if only I had the $10k needed.  cry 
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:26 am

December, everything is booked solid to Europe and the Middle East..

we all knew that EK was going to enter YYZ with much fanfare, and that demand was never an issue. I wonder what the overall yield is, maybe behramjee can provide some input.

[Edited 2007-11-05 20:39:01]
 
Cruiser
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:08 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting Haan (Reply 8):
I can see Emirates going to YYZ daily, just as soon as they can get more aircraft.

They require one other small detail - rights! Additional aircraft is a cake-walk compared to the rights that they have to obtain.

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
kissK
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:23 pm

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:12 am

EK flights looks fulll fullllllllll for the next 2 months... but how is the EY flights doing?
 
ricardofg
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:09 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:56 am

We are also the handling agent for EY in YYZ, and those flights are mostly full also...QR should have no problem in YYZ, however with Kingfisher rumoured to be starting YYZ soon, one has to wonder if the YYZ-India market will be quite saturated...I know AZ will be stopping there DEL and BOM service but lets look at the list of airlines in YYZ that have heavy traffic to India

AC
EK
EY
BA
KL
AF
SU
VV
PK
AI
UN
9W
LH

I know I went a bit off topic here, but its mind boggling to me
 
kissK
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:23 pm

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting RicardoFG (Reply 13):
We are also the handling agent for EY in YYZ, and those flights are mostly full also...QR should have no problem in YYZ, however with Kingfisher rumoured to be starting YYZ soon, one has to wonder if the YYZ-India market will be quite saturated...I know AZ will be stopping there DEL and BOM service but lets look at the list of airlines in YYZ that have heavy traffic to India

Its easier to find a seat to AUH but seats to DXB are scarce
 
gmale72
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:01 pm

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:15 pm

Kingfisher ? Wow.... I know Qatar has been on a media blitz here in YYZ, ads all over the Subway system, just a matter of time I think before we have YYZ-DOH service.
 
sebring
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:28 pm

Quoting Gmale72 (Reply 15):
Kingfisher ? Wow.... I know Qatar has been on a media blitz here in YYZ, ads all over the Subway system, just a matter of time I think before we have YYZ-DOH service.

Eventually, sure, but first there has to be a bilateral.
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 3943
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:32 pm

If somebody opened up a DXB/AUH/DOH-YYC direct, they'd get pretty good loads. There are many thousands of Canadians working in the middle east and most of them are in, shockingly, petroleum. The traffic between Calgary and the middle east is immense. At the moment, most of it transits through LHR or FRA. I imagine that'll change with the YYZ flights.
What the...?
 
User avatar
yowza
Posts: 4275
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:33 pm

Quoting Gmale72 (Reply 15):
Kingfisher ? Wow.... I know Qatar has been on a media blitz here in YYZ, ads all over the Subway system, just a matter of time I think before we have YYZ-DOH service.

Really? I take the subway almost everyday here and I haven't seen any QR ads.

YOWza
 
threepoint
Posts: 1292
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:27 pm

Quoting Heathrow (Reply 2):
Maybe DXB - YUL - YYZ with 388 ?

Why would any YYZ passengers want to stop in Montreal enroute? That would be a reason for many to avoid that service, wouldn't it? Unless dictated by a tech stop, non-stop service is by far preferred by the traveleres the airlines covet.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11825
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:39 pm

Quoting Sebring (Reply 7):
For those thinking of a daily A380, note the last para above.

Interesting, but obviously there is huge unmet demand on the route. Does AC have service to DXB? If not, why? Obviously its in demand from the load factors!

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
sebring
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:12 pm

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 20):

Interesting, but obviously there is huge unmet demand on the route. Does AC have service to DXB? If not, why? Obviously its in demand from the load factors!

There is not a huge unmet demand on the route. It's network traffic to places like Pakistan, India, and other mideast countries. Hardly anyone I know flying to Pakistan flies PK and there is no nonstop service to India on any carrier. Canada-UAE local traffic is small - not enough to fill an A319 every day. There is no nonstop service to India or Sri Lanka or to the Middle East other than the UAE. EK could route most of its traffic through a hub in Uzbeckistan, and the demand would be only slightly less because it's business here is not based on serving Dubai. That's why Canada has a clause in its policy for bilaterals to deal with so-called vacuum cleaner situations where a carrier comes in with way too much capacity to meet local needs but is after establishing hub dominance by effectively dumping capacity to get established before anybody else. In all likelihood, and this is my hunch, not my informed opinion, Canada will stall out the UAE talks until 2010 or 2011 by which time a number of other airlines - let's say, Kingfisher, Qatar, Gulf, maybe Kuwait – will enter the YYZ market on a nonstop basis. Air Canada will be getting 787s and probably relaunching some services to India. Air India will have a lot of new fleet and Star Alliance membership, and so on. Then, and only then, will EY and EK get free rein to add capacity at will. Of course, there is always the chance that EY or EK will make a deal, via AC, to create a partnership and/or agree to restrict capacity to the extent that when AC does get a 787, it might have a hope of making a nonstop to Dubai work on local traffic.
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:54 pm

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 19):
Why would any YYZ passengers want to stop in Montreal enroute?

Exactly. After providing a successful non-stop service, the customer base would not take too kindly to have a YUL stop thrown in. EK's forte will be providing non-stop service to DXB with one stop connectivity to points beyond. Don't think at this point YUL is high on the radar screen.
Above and Beyond
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:10 pm

Quoting AF340 (Reply 1):
Quoting RicardoFG (Thread starter):
Emirates goal for Toronto is Daily A380 service by 2010.

I really really really hope that happens! Maybe we could beat YUL for scheduled service...

LOL...i highly doubt it..

The A380 is coming to Montreal next week to test all upgrades YUL has done to receive the super jumbo.

AF is scheduled to serve YUL with the 380 sometime in 2009.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:28 pm

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 22):
Don't think at this point YUL is high on the radar screen.

Based on statements made by Emirates planning department, I beg to differ.
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

AC//Au Revoir A340-500's?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:02 pm

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 24):
Based on statements made by Emirates planning department, I beg to differ.

Emirates planning would like to conquer the world. They are considering anywhere and everywhere.
 Wow!  Wow!

My statement was basically reflective of remarks made by Emirates upon the launch of YYZ service. YUL will probably happen, but YVR & seemingly YYC are next in line.
Above and Beyond
 
jamincan
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:28 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:46 pm

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 25):
They are considering anywhere and everywhere.

You heard it here first: EK planners want to serve DXB-YXE daily!  Wink
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:59 pm

Quoting Jamincan (Reply 26):
You heard it here first: EK planners want to serve DXB-YXE daily!

Double-daily on the 380's given the close cultural ties between the two cities!  biggrin 
Above and Beyond
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting Jamincan (Reply 26):
You heard it here first: EK planners want to serve DXB-YXE daily!

 rotfl 
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:50 am

In that case, EK most definitely needs the ol' Air Canada circle tag YXE-YQR-DXB..
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11825
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting Jamincan (Reply 26):
You heard it here first: EK planners want to serve DXB-YXE daily!

Snarf!
Best comeback on a.net in a long time.  praise 

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 22):
EK's forte will be providing non-stop service to DXB with one stop connectivity to points beyond.

Actually, look at their route map. SYD via BKK, MEL via SIN, Auckland and Christchurch completely by flights with stops (sometimes two stops. E.g., AUK-SYD-BKK-DXB or AUK-Brisbane-SIN-DXB. or Jakarta-SIN-Colombo-DXB) EK seems to seed their routes prior to a non-stop.


http://www.emirates.com/routemap.html

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11825
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:38 pm

Quoting Sebring (Reply 21):
et's say, Kingfisher, Qatar, Gulf, maybe Kuwait – will enter the YYZ market on a nonstop basis.

I missed this comment, so here goes. Yes, non-stop service to/from India is EK's greatest long term threat. Hence their obsession with getting CASM down. Its going to be very interesting to watch Kingfisher and Jet expand. My friend who fly a bunch to India are all starting to fall in love with Jet. Why not Kingfisher? Apparently they just do not serve the city pairs needed within India at the times they need (for connections).

As to connections anywhere? Right now I agree. It boggles my mind the routes people will take to get from the US to India right now; at this time there is no choice. Once Jet and Kingfisher have more of a presence, I think the routes will rationalize. Now EK will still have a market, but how much? Or more precisely, how profitable.  Wink

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
ricardofg
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:09 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:39 pm

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 31):
Kingfisher, Qatar, Gulf, maybe Kuwait – will enter the YYZ market on a nonstop basis.

I can't see Kuwait serving YYZ nonstop, although maybe the demand is there as according to YYZNews.com, Air Canada just signed a codeshare agreement with LH to serve KWI via FRA. I know OA and EY have a lot of pax going to KWI out of YYZ, but enough demand to be served nonstop? I doubt it.
 
sebring
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: EK Goal For YYZ...

Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:04 pm

For people who think that the UAE will have an easy time getting expanded rights in Canada, consider how poorly Singapore did this week.

There's a separate thread on this. Despite the pressure applied in public by SQ, Singapore barely achieved any progress - unless they want to launch nonstop service from Singapore, which apparently no one on either side expects from SQ or AC.

Canadian airports, which would sell their souls to get more flights, couldn't hide their disappointment.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/November2007/07/c5534.html

And generally speaking, Canada had no other axe to grind with Singapore, which is not the case here.

Once again, the Canadian policy is there in black and white. Canada will not allow itself to be swarmed by city-state carriers offering little origin-destination business. The Canadian market is wide open for new nonstops built on local demand, which is why we will see a lot of new airlines in Canada serving all kinds of new destinations overseas before we will see EK and SQ allowed to dump capacity into Canada. Unless of course, they offer a better carrot to Canadian aviation interests.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 9MMPD, Andy33, Baidu [Spider], barney captain, bohica, deltal1011man, dennypayne, FAST Enterprise [Crawler], flyingclrs727, gstpa, hoons90, iahcsr, jetwet1, msp753nwa, ra132914, rbretas, RickNRoll, Someone83, SooLineRob, spacecadet, speedbored, Spyhunter, sq256, Ugly51 and 219 guests