MSYtristar
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JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:44 pm

I see that the nonstop DL873 JAX-LAX ends on 02Jan. I do not see it returning in future schedules. I guess the loads weren't there to justify a 738 on the route.

Also, RDU/CMH/BDL-LAX get cut to 4x weekly service from 03Jan to 11Feb, which is generally a pretty slow travel period.
 
mcamargo
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:51 pm

Did DL over-estimate the potential of an LAX hub perhaps?
They seem to have cut a few routes, can't remember them off the top of my head right now.
I live for the day mainline returns to BRO...
 
atlaaron
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:10 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
Also, RDU/CMH/BDL-LAX get cut to 4x weekly service from 03Jan to 11Feb, which is generally a pretty slow travel period.

Wow, I thought that CMH-LAX was pretty solid. Apparently not. Probably is being hurt by SkyBus flying to BUR.
 
B4REAL
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:14 pm

This may be a seasonal adjustment.
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FlyPNS1
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:14 pm

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 2):
Wow, I thought that CMH-LAX was pretty solid. Apparently not. Probably is being hurt by SkyBus flying to BUR.

Even if CMH-LAX is a strong route, it's no surprise that DL is reducing frequency during this time frame. Januarly/early Februarly is the slowest time of the year for air travel. Almost all airlines lose money during this time. In recent years, the legacy carriers (in particular DL) have become more aggressive at cutting capacity during these down times to minimize losses.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:50 pm

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 3):
This may be a seasonal adjustment.

It may also be the result of operational difficulties at JAX caused by the construction of the new terminal. While it could also be the performance of the route, DL (like every other carrier at JAX) is pretty squeezed for space right now.
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EXAAUADL
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:02 pm

while flying these markets 3-4 times per week will help with loads, it almost guarantees a fall in yield. Business travellers really need at least Mon-Fri nonstop service. Maybe DL can recapture this traffic thru SLC or CVG.

Quoting Mcamargo (Reply 1):
Did DL over-estimate the potential of an LAX hub perhaps?

I think youll see some more in the near future....Airline managers look at a city like LAX and say..wow big city, we have to be big there...yet the market is fragmented and very competitive....meanwhile CO and NW had awesome quarters with minimal LAX presence.
 
HVNandrew
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:20 pm

Interesting adjustments for DL at LAX. Come the new year, they'll be cutting mainline to LAS and JAX, and all service to MFE, SAN, and YVR.

But remember that CUN, BZE, GUA, LIR and some RJ Mexican destinations come back online this winter, and DL is starting the new Hawaii and IAD service in the first half of next year.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:27 pm

Delta's LAX expansion has been very much hit an miss.

Some routes like CZM never started, others such as TIJ, BZE, SAN, YVR have or will get the axe, while yet others have seen significant frequency adjustments -- many Latin ones are operated with merely one or two weekly frequencies.

Here is a summary of the many token services Delta is operating in December, a peak travel period;

LAX-ACA Sat only 738
LAX-BOI 6x weekly ERJ
LAX-CUN Sat only 738
LAX-CMH 4x weekly 738
LAX-CUL 2x weekly ERJ
LAX-EUG daily ERJ
LAX-GUA 4x weekly 757
LAX-BDL 4x weekly 738
LAX-ZIH Sat only ERJ
LAX-JAX 5x weekly 738
LAX-LAP 4x weekly ERJ
LAX-LIR Sat only 738
LAX-LTO 3x weekly ERJ
LAX-LMM 4x weekly ERJ
LAX-MGA Sat only 757
LAX-ZLO 3x weekly ERJ
LAX-MZT 5x weekly ERJ
LAX-MFE 5x weekly ERJ
LAX-PDX daily ERJ
LAX-RDU 4x weekly 738
LAX-RNO daily ERJ
LAX-TRC 6x weekly ERJ
LAX-YVR 5x weekly ERJ
LAX-ZCL 3x weekly ERJ

I'm not sure what value or competative position DL can offer when many of these destinations are served by others offering much more frequent service.
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MSYtristar
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:36 pm

LAX-MSY seems to be hanging on with a daily 738 for the time being, as well.
 
MAH4546
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:37 pm

Is anybody really surprised? I don't think the CMH/MSY/BDL/RDU flights will last that long either.
a.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:43 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Is anybody really surprised? I don't think the CMH/MSY/BDL/RDU flights will last that long either.

essentially all of the medium sized market transcon routes are extremely suceptable to fuel prices, and we all see whats happening with those.

Look at BDL.. they had SFO and LAX pre 9/11 and with problably $10/ barell oil and they did great.

my guess is in todays envronment, SFO would be a money loser, and LAX probably profitable daily up to $75/ barrel and profitable 4x weekly say up to $90/ barrel (these are all hypotethical guesses) But i do think transcons will start dropping like flies if we see several sustained months of $100+ for oil.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
laca773
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:54 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Is anybody really surprised? I don't think the CMH/MSY/BDL/RDU flights will last that long either.

I just called a friend of mine who's in flight crew management @ DL and read your quote to him MAH4546. He said, no, those routes are just being cut back during the off peak winter season as they don't want fly with an a/c less than half full on lighter travel days with the way fuel is rising every day.

He wants to know if you work for DL MAH4546?

LACA773
 
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LAXintl
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:06 pm

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 6):
Airline managers look at a city like LAX and say..wow big city, we have to be big there...yet the market is fragmented and very competitive....

 checkmark  Amen.

While LA might be on of the worlds biggest markets, its both very well served and very competitive.
There really are not many gaping holes or markets that are crying out for service. These facts make it hard for someone like Delta to show up and push their way in.

My prediction are as follows;
- With Grinstein gone, DL will not hang on to its LAX aspirations. Flying will continue getting pruned leaving destinations that truly serve and benefit the greater DL network and can atleast be flown at breakeven.
- ExpressJet will wake up reduce/withdraw its loss making branded flying by signing a long term agreement with some carrier. This will also see carrier dropping its 'at risk" DL flying.
- DL will eventually settle on a small express operation in LA feeding its core flying to places such as ATL, Hawaii, JFK etc, most likely intra-CA flying complementing the AE code-share.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 12):
those routes are just being cut back during the off peak winter season

December is off-peak? CMH,BDL,RDU are 4x weekly even thru Xmas.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MAH4546
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:11 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 12):
I just called a friend of mine who's in flight crew management @ DL and read your quote to him MAH4546. He said, no, those routes are just being cut back during the off peak winter season as they don't want fly with an a/c less than half full on lighter travel days with the way fuel is rising every day.

He wants to know if you work for DL MAH4546?

My quote was simply an opinion, not based on fact. With fuel prices rising, these thin routes aren't going to make much sense. And, I'm sorry, but "off peak winter season" includes Christmas? And business markets served at 4x weekly? That doesn't fly with me. I'll keep with my opinion, I could very well be wrong.
a.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:12 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 12):
He said, no, those routes are just being cut back during the off peak winter season as they don't want fly with an a/c less than half full on lighter travel days with the way fuel is rising every day.



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
It may also be the result of operational difficulties at JAX caused by the construction of the new terminal. While it could also be the performance of the route, DL (like every other carrier at JAX) is pretty squeezed for space right now.

Mmmhmmm. Ockham's Razor. The route didn't do well, just like many of DL's other adds at LAX. Plus those routes aren't particularly full and DL is most certainly not getting some kind of amazing revenue premium to compensate.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
panamair
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:21 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
Here is a summary of the many token services Delta is operating in December, a peak travel period;

LAX-ACA Sat only 738
LAX-BOI 6x weekly ERJ
LAX-CUN Sat only 738
LAX-CMH 4x weekly 738
LAX-CUL 2x weekly ERJ
LAX-EUG daily ERJ
LAX-GUA 4x weekly 757
LAX-BDL 4x weekly 738
LAX-ZIH Sat only ERJ
LAX-JAX 5x weekly 738
LAX-LAP 4x weekly ERJ
LAX-LIR Sat only 738
LAX-LTO 3x weekly ERJ
LAX-LMM 4x weekly ERJ
LAX-MGA Sat only 757
LAX-ZLO 3x weekly ERJ
LAX-MZT 5x weekly ERJ
LAX-MFE 5x weekly ERJ
LAX-PDX daily ERJ
LAX-RDU 4x weekly 738
LAX-RNO daily ERJ
LAX-TRC 6x weekly ERJ
LAX-YVR 5x weekly ERJ
LAX-ZCL 3x weekly ERJ

December is peak really only after Dec15. You were looking at schedules in early December. If you look at skeds post-Dec 15, you will see that frequencies on some of these routes are higher. Some increases include:

LAX-CUN goes 5x weekly
LAX-PDX goes 2x daily eff Dec 17
LAX-MZT goes daily
LAX-RNO goes 2x daily
LAX-CMH goes 6x weekly
LAX-RDU goes 6x weekly,
etc.

[Edited 2007-11-06 12:23:34]
 
727LOVER
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
at JAX caused by the construction of the new terminal

JAX is building a new terminal? When? Where? Details?

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 11):
pre 9/11 and with problably $10/ barell oil and they did great.

I don't think oil was THAT low in 2001 pre-9/11. IIRC, it actually went down after 9/11. There was .99 per gallon all over this state.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 17):
I don't think oil was THAT low in 2001 pre-9/11. IIRC, it actually went down after 9/11. There was .99 per gallon all over this state.

Accoridng to the chart im looking at over the past 20 years, the low point was around 1999 (when all these transcons started springing up) and Crude Oil looked to be roughly $12/ barrel
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:02 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 17):
JAX is building a new terminal? When? Where? Details?

Will be one single, slightly curved concourse in front of Concourses A and C. Concourse B will likely be the first concourse to be torn down, and A and C will be torn down once the new concourse is more or less complete. No idea on the number of gates or whether there'll be FIS, as JAX' website plain and simply svcks. For more info on the location, use Local Live Search. The Images are pretty new and you can already see the rough outline of the new concourse.
 
HPAEAA
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 12):
I just called a friend of mine who's in flight crew management @ DL and read your quote to him MAH4546. He said, no, those routes are just being cut back during the off peak winter season as they don't want fly with an a/c less than half full on lighter travel days with the way fuel is rising every day.

He wants to know if you work for DL MAH4546?

Relax, Crew Scheduling isn't exactly involved in strategic route planning... If DL can find a route for the 738 7x weekly the route will be axed for good....

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
My quote was simply an opinion, not based on fact. With fuel prices rising, these thin routes aren't going to make much sense. And, I'm sorry, but "off peak winter season" includes Christmas? And business markets served at 4x weekly? That doesn't fly with me. I'll keep with my opinion, I could very well be wrong.

Only quick response is that the thought holds true if there are competitors in the market.. if a business traveler can get the nonstop one way and a conex back vs. conx going and coming, they'll take the nonstop and conx...
Why do I fly???
 
DeltaRules
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:39 am

Wasn't CMH down to 4x weekly for a while last year?
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MAH4546
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 20):
Only quick response is that the thought holds true if there are competitors in the market.. if a business traveler can get the nonstop one way and a conex back vs. conx going and coming, they'll take the nonstop and conx...

While that's true, some would say "If I have to connect one way, I might as well connect both and fly [preferred airline]." It eliminates an important competitive advantage and devalues the purpose of having a non-sop.

It's one of the reasons various attempts at Saturday-only service from LaGuardia to places like LAX, LAS, SLC, etc. by Delta, ATA, and US Airways have consistently faltered.
a.
 
HPAEAA
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
While that's true, some would say "If I have to connect one way, I might as well connect both and fly [preferred airline]." It eliminates an important competitive advantage and devalues the purpose of having a non-sop.

It's one of the reasons various attempts at Saturday-only service from LaGuardia to places like LAX, LAS, SLC, etc. by Delta, ATA, and US Airways have consistently faltered.

ok, fair enough for the gold members of the world... your right it does take something away, but not enough for the most valuable business traffic...

Re: the SAT only traffic from LGA, well I have to take exception, on Sat from LGA, your mostly dealing with leisure traffic which brings lower RASM and indifference to the nonstop vs conx equation (most are shopping on price alone), there also very little business demand (most business travel wants to be out on Friday or arrive Sunday night at the earliest) not to mention you also have JFK and EWR which offer nonstops to many places which would be Sat only out of LGA... some travelers might use the Sat only nonstop and fly in or out of a another NYC airport... it's a little skewed...
Why do I fly???
 
ASEFlyer
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:08 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Is anybody really surprised? I don't think the CMH/MSY/BDL/RDU flights will last that long either.

I don't see MSY getting it. Lots of O&D with film industry.
 
MAH4546
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting ASEFlyer (Reply 24):
I don't see MSY getting it. Lots of O&D with film industry.

You could say that about dozens of city pairs from LAX - MCO, YVR, MIA, ILM. That doesn't mean much.
a.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
You could say that about dozens of city pairs from LAX - MCO, YVR, MIA, ILM. That doesn't mean much

LAX-MSY has always been a strong O&D market. The significant film industry traffic has only helped it out. Add to the fact that DL has always had a pretty strong frequent flyer base in the New Orleans area, and I'd imagine LAX-MSY will be here for a while.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:46 am

MSY and CMH aren't going anywhere.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:15 am

Funny enough, I see Delta reliving the same exact experience Continental had with ExpressJet also operating Mexico RJ service from LAX.

Like DL, CO enthusiastically entered half a dozen cities with daily RJ service which slowly withered down to mere few weekly frequencies. CO even with its great success and experience of using RJs from IAH to Mexico was unable to replicate this at LAX.

As America West has also found out, RJ's simply do not work well from LAX to Mexico particularly to the many ethnic markets due baggage constraints and only marginally to beach destinations. Its hard to sell or manage RJ ops going up against mainline jets and airlines that offer much more frequency and schedule options.

Lastly, I dont see Delta doing much advertising in the Latin media nor reaching out to ethnic travel agencies or consolidators which have very strong following in their respective communities.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Rookinla
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:23 am

LAX-JAX must not be experiencing very high yields...loads seemed to be fine. Been on this one numerous times and they always seemed to leave people at the gate. Just goes to show you...high loads do not necessarily mean good yields.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:24 am

Is there a possibility Delta could downgrade some of the transcons LAX flights to 737-700 when they come online, or are they completely dedicated to Caribbean service? When are they due and what's the potential routes?
Aiming High and going far..
 
MAH4546
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 30):
Is there a possibility Delta could downgrade some of the transcons LAX flights to 737-700 when they come online, or are they completely dedicated to Caribbean service? When are they due and what's the potential routes?

I doubt it. They were not bought for that, and a slight downgrade to the 73G won't really solve anything here.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 26):

LAX-MSY has always been a strong O&D market. The significant film industry traffic has only helped it out. Add to the fact that DL has always had a pretty strong frequent flyer base in the New Orleans area, and I'd imagine LAX-MSY will be here for a while.

I'm not doubting it's a strong O&D market (though "film industry traffic" card is way overplayed, though not just on the MSY route), but it depends, IMO, on how Delta shapes their LAX operations in the future.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 27):
MSY and CMH aren't going anywhere.

I guess that gives us a possible hint to the future of BDL and RDU.

[Edited 2007-11-06 19:18:18]
a.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
I guess that gives us a possible hint to the future of BDL and RDU.

I think it hinted that MSY and CMH wasn't going anywhere.. not necessarily that BDL and RDU were being cut. Word at RDU is that the LAX flight is meeting yield expectations plus some. It may drop a few days for a few months.. but I don't think it is going anywhere..
Aiming High and going far..
 
Alitalia744
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 30):
Is there a possibility Delta could downgrade some of the transcons LAX flights to 737-700 when they come online, or are they completely dedicated to Caribbean service? When are they due and what's the potential routes?

No.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
I guess that gives us a possible hint to the future of BDL and RDU.

Not necessarily. At least not yet.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 32):
think it hinted that MSY and CMH wasn't going anywhere.. not necessarily that BDL and RDU were being cut. Word at RDU is that the LAX flight is meeting yield expectations plus some. It may drop a few days for a few months.. but I don't think it is going anywhere..

Correct for now at least.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:14 am

You all are getting all worked up about DL's very fast expansion at LAX and then a partial pulldown - probably a lot of which will be for a couple months only.

If you remember, less than 9 months ago, DL was running the risk that LAWA would cancel DL's lease due to underutilization of its gates. DL threw a bunch of service in, some of it worked, some of it didn't, and now they are cutting back which would be the prudent thing to do this time of year even if gates weren't the issue. But DL has succeeded in getting LAWA off its back for now and it appears that DL is no longer in any threat of losing its terminal now. And if such talk resurfaces, DL can very quickly ramp those flights right back up and get the lawyers busy again.

At some point, DL will be in a position to develop LAX like it has JFK but for now we will see on and off growth. Since there is very little opportunity for growth by other carriers, DL will use its gate availability to its advantage and protect it.

Within that context, DL's flight additions and cancellations make alot of sense.
 
klwright69
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:38 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13):
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 6):While LA might be on of the worlds biggest markets, its both very well served and very competitive.
There really are not many gaping holes or markets that are crying out for service. These facts make it hard for someone like Delta to show up and push their way in.

Airline managers look at a city like LAX and say..wow big city, we have to be big there...yet the market is fragmented and very competitive....

checkmark Amen.

Wow, That is so well said and so true. Remember F9 saw all kinds of great opportunities in a LAX focus city with flights to MSP, MCI, and SFO (I think I got that right). F9 ramped up their LAX focus city and realized it wasn't as cracked up as it first looked on paper.

Isn't it funny how UA has never been able to make IAH-LAX work. Houston is one of the largest cities, and UA is a megacarrier at LAX. UA has a hub with connections at LAX. Of course we all know that CO rules the roost in that market. But the fact that UA doesn't even bother with a token one or two flights for their loyal customers is shocking. It points to the special nature of that market.

CO has also tinkered with LAX in odd ways. They have done SAT and MSY to LAX in the past. For a month or two over the Christmas season in 96 and maybe 97, CO flew LAX-SAL nonstop. No I am not making that up. Is CO still even doing RJ's from LAX to Mexico leaving at midnight? And of course we all have heard of CO's shortlived LAX-OGG.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
Quoting LACA773 (Reply 12):
I just called a friend of mine who's in flight crew management @ DL and read your quote to him MAH4546. He said, no, those routes are just being cut back during the off peak winter season as they don't want fly with an a/c less than half full on lighter travel days with the way fuel is rising every day.

MAH4546:
My quote was simply an opinion, not based on fact. With fuel prices rising, these thin routes aren't going to make much sense. And, I'm sorry, but "off peak winter season" includes Christmas? And business markets served at 4x weekly? That doesn't fly with me. I'll keep with my opinion, I could very well be wrong.

MAH I think you can be confident that you are correct. I think for most domestic service, you fly at least twice each day depending on the route, and once a day is a basic minimum (maybe 6x a week). But honestly, all BS aside, if a carrier can't even maintain a DOMESTIC route running once a day, even during the slow season, it's probably not VIABLE. If CO announced they would start serving a route like OAK-SLC 4x a week, we would laugh at that because that level of service for a domestic route is a joke. I think CO has done Saturday only EWR-ABQ. A once a week flight is a little different. That is really more like an experiment to have a plane in the air rather than sitting on the ground, in other words almost not even pretending to really be in a market. Maybe UA should go LAX-IAH 4x a week (again, a joke).
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 6):
Airline managers look at a city like LAX and say..wow big city, we have to be big there...yet the market is fragmented and very competitive....meanwhile CO and NW had awesome quarters with minimal LAX presence.

Whaaaaaattttttttttttttttt?

LAX has been an on-again/off-again hub/focus city for Delta for decades...even before the Western merger. They increase capacity for a few years, then decrease capacity for a few years.

Delta's committment to LAX goes only as long as the city is profitable. Once LCC or other competition inteferes with their ability to earn a profit on the current schedule, they pull back.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
laca773
Posts: 2034
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:53 am

When DL was starting all these new nonstops with Express Jet ERJs, we were all wondering what was going to happen. I for one didn't see it going to well though I tried to remain optomistic about it. Do you guys all think the ERJs are going to disappear, or possibly some of these express flights go to mainline. I know that's a bit of streaching it a bit, i.e., LAX-SEA & LAX-YVR going head to head with AS!

I for one am hopeful DL won't terminate the majority of these single daily redeye flights they have to CMH, BDL, RDU. Are they still planning on starting IAD service?
Is there a chance they may reposition the redeyes to morning flights? Would they do better? Or are they positioned that way so one can fly into RDU for example and fly back to LAX the same day?

LACA773
 
HVNandrew
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:17 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 37):
When DL was starting all these new nonstops with Express Jet ERJs, we were all wondering what was going to happen. I for one didn't see it going to well though I tried to remain optomistic about it. Do you guys all think the ERJs are going to disappear, or possibly some of these express flights go to mainline. I know that's a bit of streaching it a bit, i.e., LAX-SEA & LAX-YVR going head to head with AS!

I for one am hopeful DL won't terminate the majority of these single daily redeye flights they have to CMH, BDL, RDU. Are they still planning on starting IAD service?
Is there a chance they may reposition the redeyes to morning flights? Would they do better? Or are they positioned that way so one can fly into RDU for example and fly back to LAX the same day?

I doubt you'll see the ExpressJet flights go to mainline. In fact, DL is doing the opposite. LAS is going from a mix of mainline and ERJs to all ExpressJet next month. And YVR is going to be cut entirely.

IAD is still in the schedule for March.
 
HVNandrew
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 27):
MSY and CMH aren't going anywhere.

Someone on Wikipedia (I know, not really a reliable source...) has posted that CMH service will end on Feb. 12. It's still in the DL schedule. Any verification or is this inaccurate?
 
MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:31 pm

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 39):
Someone on Wikipedia (I know, not really a reliable source...) has posted that CMH service will end on Feb. 12. It's still in the DL schedule. Any verification or is this inaccurate?

Inaccurate. The flight does not operate on 2/13, however. Here's the schedule for the flight eff. 2/14:

DL 1491 X236 CMHLAX 1935 2136 737 0 M
DL 1492 X236 LAXCMH 2250 0609+1 737 0 M
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4497
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:16 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Is anybody really surprised? I don't think the CMH/MSY/BDL/RDU flights will last that long either.

Not really. DL is fighting an uphill battle at LAX. Its my opinion that they are losing the battle to the others (namely UA).

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Mmmhmmm. Ockham's Razor

Indeed. Alot of times it will be said that "oh they just needed the planes elsewhere" or something like that, but usually the simplest explination is the correct one. My guess is if the route is going to the chopping block that it was just a money loser.
It is what it is...
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:30 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
Delta's LAX expansion has been very much hit an miss.

Because it was a stupid idea in the first place. Decidedly secondary markets with nondaily service? To compete with WN, AA, and UA already firmly entrenched?

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 12):

I just called a friend of mine who's in flight crew management @ DL and read your quote to him MAH4546.



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 12):
He wants to know if you work for DL MAH4546?

Why would you even think that?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
While that's true, some would say "If I have to connect one way, I might as well connect both and fly [preferred airline]." It eliminates an important competitive advantage and devalues the purpose of having a non-sop.

Exactly correct, as usual.

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 23):
ok, fair enough for the gold members of the world... your right it does take something away, but not enough for the most valuable business traffic...

Yeah, it does. The most valuable business traffic all comes from elite flyers. If they have to connect one way, they will connect both.

NS
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15455
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:52 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 41):
"oh they just needed the planes elsewhere"

That one is my favorite excuse of all. Yeah they needed it elsewhere, as in flying something that doesn't lose as much money or parked Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
BA744PHX
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:42 am

RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:55 pm

How is DL doing on LAX-PHX against US and WN???
 
Ezra
Posts: 474
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 8:21 am

RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:42 pm

Is there any talk about DL opening JAX-SLC now that JAX-LAX is going away?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24724
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:42 pm

a.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15455
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting Ezra (Reply 45):
Is there any talk about DL opening JAX-SLC now that JAX-LAX is going away?

It would probably do quite a bit better than JAXLAX.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 40):
DL 1491 X236 CMHLAX 1935 2136 737 0 M
DL 1492 X236 LAXCMH 2250 0609+1 737 0 M

ewww.. ugly times for the business traveler... leisures not bad... but still... how does the return time with Asian arrivals? (excuse the ignorance)

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 42):
Yeah, it does. The most valuable business traffic all comes from elite flyers. If they have to connect one way, they will connect both.

might just be me.. but most of the exec plat, or plat (depending on carrier) try to stick to a few carriers, but by and large, they want to get there quick and when they want to go... schedule dictates most...

What I meant by the comment is, that for the Gold and Plat or Silver and Gold (depending on carrier) the segments and loyalty might be a little stronger because they wnat to keep earning the status...

[Edited 2007-11-07 16:57:14]
Why do I fly???
 
klwright69
Posts: 2440
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: JAX-LAX On DL Cancelled?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 42):
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
Delta's LAX expansion has been very much hit an miss.

Because it was a stupid idea in the first place. Decidedly secondary markets with nondaily service? To compete with WN, AA, and UA already firmly entrenched?

Another well thought out comment...

I just reread my earlier post and realized I went off topic. Sorry.

Carefully looking at DL routes out of LAX again, it is much worse than previously thought...

LAX-MFE?? by DL? That is not even rational.
A once a week LAX-MGA with a 757? What for?
LAX-PDX? How many flights does UA have on this route?

MAH once said DL focuses on their "system" rather than route by route profitability like other carriers. I think DL is taking this philosophy to the radical extreme, by commencing routes that have no real chance of working, even over the "long haul." Routes that have significant competition. Routes that are ultra thin. Numerous routes with bare bones frequencies. It is like they are firing in all different directions, hoping to hit something at some point.

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