georgebush
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:15 am

Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:55 pm

It looks like right now boeing has 196 aircrafts under the "unidentified" listing. Has anyone got any ideas who might have orders in??

I suspect FJ with the 5 787's, but that still leaves about 191 other planes!

cheers
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
LH506
Posts: 246
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RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:00 pm

30 787s for QR is almost certain
2 77Fs for LA was confirmed this week
1-2 77L for DL
NOT FLOWN: 707 736/9 77L 788 300B2 300B4 345 359 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
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casinterest
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RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:13 pm

With LANS 36(32 787, 4 777) planes so newly announced, I wonder if they are in the list still.


There is going to be a lot of new orders coming to Boeing at the expense of Airbus.

The trend of the falling dollar does not appear to be changing, and this puts Boeing at a considerable Price advantage over Airbus. Going forward, it is pretty much guaranteed that Beoing will be taking the lead in sales of equipment. Airbus is already making noise in Europe about this.

I suspect many of the Unidentified orders are going to be from customers still in negotiation with Airbus to harball them into a better deal on their potential purchases.
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pilotboi
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RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:49 pm

Well we're almost certain DL will be getting some 787s (due to the fact that Delta is all-Boeing). So that could be some of them. Just a guess.
 
tom355uk
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RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:55 pm

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 2):

To an extent, does this not also work the other way??? If the dollar is weaker, surely some of the raw materials that must be imported will cost more? Unless of course they are on fixed price contracts... And aren't the wings of the 787 made in Japan? Again, if the dollar weakens it will cost more dollars to buy an identically priced product from Japan??

I guess anyway...
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:12 pm

You are correct. In the case of the Yen, though. It has stayed at about the same level with the US$, (currently 113 yen/$), so the relative prices stay the same, all else being equal.
What the...?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:22 pm

It is likely Boeing has fixed-price contracts so they're protected in the near-term. Also, while the bulk of Airbus' excellent hedges are expiring throughout this year, it is very likely Airbus has undertaken new ones. While not as advantageous as the old ones, it still insulates Airbus to an extent.
 
olle
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RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:33 pm

What is more interesting is that we have both manufacturs getting around 1000 orders this year and Airbus still can have prices for which they wins orders and gaina profit.

Wait a few years and the USD is 0,8 against the € and Boeing want to move production out of US again!
 
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casinterest
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RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:58 pm

Quoting Tom355uk (Reply 4):
To an extent, does this not also work the other way??? If the dollar is weaker, surely some of the raw materials that must be imported will cost more? Unless of course they are on fixed price contracts... And aren't the wings of the 787 made in Japan? Again, if the dollar weakens it will cost more dollars to buy an identically priced product from Japan??

I guess anyway...

Unfortunately /fortunately a lot of the raw components are coming from countries that are much more closely pegged to the dollar. This applies to Airibus as well.

Airbus and Boeing's final assembly locations are more specifically located within the bounds of the dollar and Euro, and this is where most of the work is applied.

Airbus also will have to depend on loyalty going forward, as new orders keep making Boeing prices look better and better to countires where the currency is increasing in strength to the dollar.

The deals for Airbus may keep getting done in dollars, but the salaries of the Euro employees/Suppliers are not paid in dollars.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:50 pm

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 3):
Well we're almost certain DL will be getting some 787s (due to the fact that Delta is all-Boeing). So that could be some of them. Just a guess.

You could be right. I have always believed DL was going to announce a 125 B-787 order (a mix of -3s, -8s, & -9s) by the end of this year. I they have already placed the order, and want it quite for a while, that makes sense too. They will end up with earlier production slots that way.

Quoting Olle (Reply 7):
What is more interesting is that we have both manufacturs getting around 1000 orders this year and Airbus still can have prices for which they wins orders and gaina profit.

Do we really know Airbus is making a profit? I thought both Airbus and Boeing sold airplanes only in US dollars (except those airplanes sold within the EU).
 
georgebush
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:15 am

RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
You could be right. I have always believed DL was going to announce a 125 B-787 order (a mix of -3s, -8s, & -9s) by the end of this year. I they have already placed the order, and want it quite for a while, that makes sense too. They will end up with earlier production slots that way.

Well on the order list is shows Delta's orders looks like they are getting some more much needed 777's.

Could any of these be United birds that havent been firmed or publicly announced yet??

It also looks like BBJ (Boeing Business Jets) have sold 4 787's. Does anyone know who bought these?
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
Do we really know Airbus is making a profit?

Their pre-A380 write-off margins say they've been making a nice one the past few years. We won't really know the impact if 2007's order boom on the bottom line until a few years from now when we can track deliveries of the planes ordered this year.
 
whoopwhoop
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:44 pm

RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 10):
It also looks like BBJ (Boeing Business Jets) have sold 4 787's. Does anyone know who bought these?

ya know, those guys who are selling that $100 a barrel stuff.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting Tom355uk (Reply 4):
If the dollar is weaker, surely some of the raw materials that must be imported will cost more? Unless of course they are on fixed price contracts... And aren't the wings of the 787 made in Japan?

A lot of the raw materials come from inside the US (all the carbon fiber and most of the aluminum). The carbon fiber prepreg is actually made somewhere in Seattle (there's only one manufacturer), shipped around the world to the suppliers, turned into finished parts, then shipped back to Seattle.

Tom.
 
AMSSFO
Posts: 912
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:42 am

RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:36 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
You could be right. I have always believed DL was going to announce a 125 B-787 order (a mix of -3s, -8s, & -9s) by the end of this year. I they have already placed the order, and want it quite for a while, that makes sense too. They will end up with earlier production slots that way.

Take a look at the list first: Most of the 200+ UFO are B737 (122) not B787 (48)......

Orders for January 2005 through September 2007
Customer Name Country Region Model Engine Order Date Total
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-800 CF 06-Sep-2006 10
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-800 CF 03-Nov-2006 1
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-800 CF 31-Dec-2006 3
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-800 CF 30-Mar-2007 4
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-800 CF 11-Apr-2007 2
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-800 CF 26-Apr-2007 15
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-800 CF 30-Apr-2007 6
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-800 CF 15-Jun-2007 7
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-800 CF 29-Aug-2007 16
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-800 CF 21-Sep-2007 2 = SK
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-800 CF 28-Sep-2007 34
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-900ER CF 25-May-2007 22
TOTAL 122

Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 767-200ER GE 14-Jun-2005 1
TOTAL: 1

Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200ER GE 27-Oct-2006 1
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200ER 30-Mar-2007 5
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200LR GE 03-Jan-2007 4
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-300ER GE 31-Jul-2007 12
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-300ER GE 15-Aug-2007 2
TOTAL: 24, some are DL, some likely KL

Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777F GE 28-Feb-2007 6 -China Southern???
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777F GE 05-Apr-2007 5
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777F GE 11-Jul-2007 2 = LAN
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777F GE 27-Jul-2007 1 - Guggenheim
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777F GE 19-Sep-2007 2 = Guggenheim
TOTAL: 16

Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-8 28-Jul-2006 2
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-8 GE 18-Jan-2007 2 - new customer
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-8 30-Mar-2007 8 -= new custoomer
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-8 05-Apr-2007 30 = QR
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-8 13-Jul-2007 6 = existing customer
TOTAL: 48

Total 211
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4492
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:56 am

Quoting Tom355uk (Reply 4):
To an extent, does this not also work the other way??? If the dollar is weaker, surely some of the raw materials that must be imported will cost more? Unless of course they are on fixed price contracts...

Airbus, Boeing, and their suppliers are experienced at currency and commodity hedging. They should be able to manage most of the in-process risk pretty well as long as the production flow is reasonably predictable. Product delays, of course, would be the gremlin in these plans.
 
eraugrad02
Posts: 665
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:12 am

RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:14 am

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 14):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 767-200ER GE 14-Jun-2005 1
TOTAL: 1

Long time since ive seen a -200 ordered. bet its a private jet or military in some capacity.

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 14):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-900ER CF 25-May-2007 22

nice to see more -900ER'S ordered. could this be the airline in asia that wants to replace their 757's? i forgot the carriers name.
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
LH506
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:48 am

RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 14):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 737-800 CF 28-Sep-2007 34

Didn't Air Arabia just recently say they are going to buy between 34 and 50 nbs and announce it at the Dubai Air Show, just a thought...
NOT FLOWN: 707 736/9 77L 788 300B2 300B4 345 359 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
georgebush
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:15 am

RE: Unidentified Boeing Orders Growing

Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting WhoopWhoop (Reply 12):
ya know, those guys who are selling that $100 a barrel stuff.

Forgot about them, just seems like the 787 isnt flash enough. I thought they fancied the 380.
Al Gore invented global warming.

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