addd
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How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:47 pm

... load factors, yields, etc.... how much business (e.g. not VFR) traffic is there on the route?
 
747fan
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:28 pm

I heard in a relatively recent thread that JFK-KBP is a solid performer for DL. Somebody even mentioned that it still maintained good performance in the winter of '06. I don't know about load factors, however. But apparently the market is large enough to serve two flights (although neither one is daily, at least not during the winter), as Aerosvit (the Ukrainian national airline) also runs a 763ER on Kiev Boryspil-JFK, however I don't know how well this route performs for VV.
In a recent thread (I think the one about DL's 3rd quarter performance), I remember someone mentioning that a DL executive said one of the reasons for DL's recent success is due to their European network out of JFK. The thing about DL's JFK operation is that their "bread and butter" routes such as JFK-FRA, AMS, and BRU struggle (hence the reason they're being downgraded from a 767 to 757). On the other hand, despite being thinner markets, DL's flights from JFK to places such as KBP, OTP, and ACC perform much better for them and could probably be considered lucrative. So this tells me that JFK-KBP is likely a fairly high-yielding flight for Delta Air Lines and probably has solid business traffic. I'm obviously not a DL or JFK employee and have no inside information on this route, so correct me if any of the above information is wrong.
 
addd
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:38 pm

For the life of me, I can not understand how DLl manages to pull off successful hub operation at JFK. I can see how some of their flights that have a large O&D base in NYC area (SVO, KBP, ACC, etc.) may have decent perormance, but their feeder network into JFK is so thin, and connecting through JFK is such a hassle.... I just don;t get it.
 
MAH4546
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:43 pm

While I have no idea how the flight is doing now, when it launched, it performed fairly poorly during it's first summer. There is little business traffic on the route. Though I'm sure it's performance has improved since it launched. The KBP flight gets a lot of connections from FLL and SEA.
a.
 
jetsetter629
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:50 pm

Sort of off topic and I do not want to open a can of worms on this one, but doesn't DL add service to WAW? They have every other major city in central and eastern Europe connected, so why not WAW?

Rob
 
Evan767
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting JetSetter629 (Reply 4):
Sort of off topic and I do not want to open a can of worms on this one, but doesn't DL add service to WAW? They have every other major city in central and eastern Europe connected, so why not WAW?

Delta has talked about it and LED, but haven't quite lived up to their word, yet. I was surprised these two didn't come in the recent announcements...Maybe there are more to come? If not I guess they're saving WAW and LED for next summer..
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
addd
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:47 am

Good question about WAW - I did not realize that NO U.S. carrier currently flies to Poland, and LO is the only airline flying direct US-Poland routes... There MUST be a logical explanation for this, although I can not find one... Smile
 
MSYtristar
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:51 am

Aerosvit KBP-JFK does well. The flight goes out full on a consistent basis. That airline is a client of my company and I talk to them regularly. Some nice folks over there.
 
jetsetter629
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting Addd (Reply 6):
Good question about WAW - I did not realize that NO U.S. carrier currently flies to Poland, and LO is the only airline flying direct US-Poland routes... There MUST be a logical explanation for this, although I can not find one...

I agree...no US airlines fly there. With a country with such a large population, stable government, and growing economy, would make for a great route. LO does have Poland connected well with WAW-JFK,ORD and KRK-JFK,ORD, but there is capacity to add...
 
kl911
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting JetSetter629 (Reply 8):
With a country with such a large population, stable government, and growing economy, would make for a great route

Don't forget that since joining the EU Poland has lost most of it's workforce and executives. They're all over western europe now. Sometimes I can see more Polish cars in The Hague then Dutch. We even have Polish supermarkets and bars here by the dozen. It's a sad thing for Poland, but I can't see the business yet for a US-Poland flight.

KL911
 
worldtraveler
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 5):
If not I guess they're saving WAW and LED for next summer..



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
There is little business traffic on the route.

but if leisure traffic is high enough priced, it can work nicely.

Quoting Addd (Reply 6):
There MUST be a logical explanation for this, although I can not find one...

Poland is the largest eastern Europe market after Russia but it is heavily concentrated in Chicago where DL is not strong.

The real reason is that DL has better opportunities for airplanes and they obviously believe Africa and the Middle East has huge untapped potential since almost all of their growth next year is in that area.
 
B767300ER
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:48 am

As a DL TLV / LLBG), Israel">LOD F/ A based out of JFK I must reply to the comment of the DL "thin" feeding flights to our trans Atlantic flights.Working mainly the Eastern European destination we recieve a lage number pf connecting PAX from our Florida and
southeastern USA flights. In addition I have noticed an increase in NW and CO connecting PAX at JFK. Many of
our PAX are not O/D at JFK. Naturally, the two flights I work out of ATL. to DXB and TLV have very few O/D PAX.
 
addd
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:46 pm

Quoting B767300ER (Reply 11):
As a DL TLV / LLBG), Israel">LOD F/ A based out of JFK I must reply to the comment of the DL "thin" feeding flights to our trans Atlantic flights.Working mainly the Eastern European destination we recieve a lage number pf connecting PAX from our Florida and
southeastern USA flights. In addition I have noticed an increase in NW and CO connecting PAX at JFK. Many of
our PAX are not O/D at JFK. Naturally, the two flights I work out of ATL. to DXB and TLV have very few O/D PAX

Of all flights, I would expect JFK-TLV to have a lot of O&D traffic in New York Smile

To your comment, though - no doubt, there are connecting passengers flying overseas throught JFK - I am just surprised that Delta can make the hub at JFK work for international traffic with so few domestic feeder flights (as compared, for example, with DL in ATL, UA and AA in ORD or, for that matter, CO at EWR).
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:56 pm

Quoting Addd (Reply 12):
I am just surprised that Delta can make the hub at JFK work for international traffic with so few domestic feeder flights (as compared, for example,

DL has added a whole lot of feeder flights at JFK, which is one of the reasons JFK was such a clusterfvck this year, with essentially all feeder flights timed to connect to their Euro flights. Granted, it's less than at ATL, but then again, NYC does offer somewhat more O&D  Wink .
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:08 pm

Quoting Addd (Reply 6):
I did not realize that NO U.S. carrier currently flies to Poland, and LO is the only airline flying direct US-Poland routes... There MUST be a logical explanation for this, although I can not find one...

Of course there is: it is called Okecie Terminal 2. If you thought A380 delay was bad, google the info about this one. It is the reason why more and more folks avoid connecting through WAW and why every carrier with rapid expansion strategy is avoiding the airport until the mess is finally cleaned up.
POLAND IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP. PLEASE SUPPORT COMMITTEE FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, K.O.D.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:14 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 7):
Aerosvit KBP-JFK does well. The flight goes out full on a consistent basis.

DL runs full too, in fact a smidge more full than VV.

In related news, DL just day of weeked JFK/LGW in Feb08--down to six weekly flights  

[Edited 2007-11-08 08:16:25]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:20 pm

JFK-KBP is a solid performer I have been on this flight many times even connecting from their to different places in Europe.

Business Elite is only $2065 no matter when you fly. Because Aerosvit charges $1700 Business Class.

American Airlines sells tickets to Kiev operated by AeroSvit from JFK. They have an inter-line agreement.

AeroSvit is a horrible airline I personally do not like it but it is $750 dollars round trip from JFK.

Delta is around $800
 
B767300ER
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:55 pm

In response to Addd, DL JFK-TLV flights are all code share with El Al, El Al planes and crew. DL will start our own
flights to TLV from JFK in March '08.
 
panamair
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:05 pm

Quoting Addd (Reply 2):
I can see how some of their flights that have a large O&D base in NYC area (SVO, KBP, ACC, etc.) may have decent perormance, but their feeder network into JFK is so thin, and connecting through JFK is such a hassle.... I just don;t get it.

You don't have to have feeder service to every domestic airport like ATL to get a majority of the transatlantic passengers; in fact, with the addition of JFK-IAH/MSP/CLT feeder services by next summer, more than 85% of US airline passengers will have access to DL's JFK international ops. DL will serve around 45 domestic US cities from JFK by then...


As to the original question, JFK-KBP has built up very nicely since its introduction in the summer of 06. As MAH correctly pointed out, it was slow in the beginning, with pretty low loads in the front; however, loads have been strong this year including respectable up-front loads. During this fall, JFK-KBP has been one of the strongest Eastern European performers in the system.
 
ualcsr
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 10):
Poland is the largest eastern Europe market after Russia but it is heavily concentrated in Chicago where DL is not strong.

I've often wondered why UA hasn't started ORD-WAW given the large Polish community in Chicago, and especially since LOT's a *A member.
 
UN_B732
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:47 am

AeroSvit is a joke. Delta's definitely worth the extra $50-100 in Coach, or the $300 in business to get a real business product.
I don't think either Delta or AeroSvit will do well this winter. VV is only full thanks to cheap connections from SVO (consistently the lowest fare, even last minute) and India, and DL gets a lot of domestic feed which fills them up.

-A
What now?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: How Is Delta Doing On JFK-KBP Route?

Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:47 pm

Quoting Addd (Reply 6):
Good question about WAW - I did not realize that NO U.S. carrier currently flies to Poland, and LO is the only airline flying direct US-Poland routes... There MUST be a logical explanation for this, although I can not find one...

But besides for the issues at Okecie (which I do think are part of the problem), LO is the reason that DL isn't flying to Poland. None of these other 'secondary routes' have a carrier which is a major alliance member effectively flying daily on the route (between EWR and WAW). Add to that the fact that the U.S. Poland market is not that large and that 3 of the 4 largest Polish expat communities in the States already have extensive direct service to WAW (and KRK in some cases, and RZE in one case), and you don't exactly have a recipe for success.

FWIW, I think there's a good chance that we see US in Poland before DL.
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