cubastar
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Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:55 pm

Delta still Weighing buying another carrier.....

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/...stories/2007/11/07/Delta_1107.html
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:01 am

While it is never going to happen, network-wise, I've always thought an AA/DL merger wouldn't be that bad. They could close down CVG and STL, as well as streamline JFK, LGA, LAX, and BOS. They would be a key player in seven of America's ten largest markets - Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, LA, Miami, and NYC.
a.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
While it is never going to happen, network-wise, I've always thought an AA/DL merger wouldn't be that bad. They could close down CVG and STL, as well as streamline JFK, LGA, LAX, and BOS. They would be a key player in seven of America's ten largest markets - Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, LA, Miami, and NYC.

Good points, but it doesn't bring anything internationally. Both carriers are strong in Latin America & Europe, while both are weak in Asia. The only thing I could see AA wanting in DL is to strengthen the southeast.
I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
 
Evan767
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:11 am

No one ever really brought up DL merging with AA. There are many aircraft similarities.

MD-88 and MD-80 (close enough)
737-800
757-200
767-300
777-200

Never really noticed that. The combination though would create a huge airline that's big in Latin America, Europe, Africa, and the Middle East. Not to mention dominating the U.S. market.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
AV8AJET
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:13 am

Maybe they'll buy ASA back...who knows. Apparently there was a buy-back clause put into the sale when DL sold off ASA to OO. With all the ground support, gate agents and baggage handling taken over (in ATL) by DL you never know. I hope so but we'll see.

[Edited 2007-11-07 16:14:25]
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 4):
Maybe they'll buy ASA back...who knows. Apparently there was a buy-back clause put into the sale when DL sold off ASA to OO. With all the ground support, gate agents and baggage handling taken over (in ATL) by DL you never know. I hope so but we'll see.

Buying both ASA and OH was the biggest mistake of the Mullin era. As a result ATL burned why Leo fiddled!

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
They would be a key player in seven of America's ten largest markets - Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, LA, Miami, and NYC.

How important is SEA as a market to any of the carriers? I've always looked at DL obtaining AS as being a very shrewed but smart move and could really give DL the Asia gateway they want and give SEA the Asia flights the Port Authority of Seattle covets YVR having.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:02 am

AA could be a shrewd move but it doesn't necessarily fix the deficits in either network (Asia/west coast) while creating a super airline on overlapping markets. I don't think it would happen although fleet is quite compatible.

AS would be a fine acquisition - they are pretty cheap now - but the question is whether they are enough long-term. AS would provide a great platform for DEVELOPING Asia but DL still would need lots of planes - and if someone else merges w/ NW or UA, DL is eclipsed to Asia. Not worth the risk unless DL knows UA or NW is not going to merge.

I still believe UA will sell out to DL. UA wants to sell and DL has shown that it can run a good airline in alot faster time than UA did. UA and DL are HUGE but overlap very little other than DEN/SLC. UA and DL culture is probably more similar than any other 2 network carriers so integration would be easier; seniority is similar enough that labor issues will merge easier than people think.

I think Bastian is passing notes to Tilton and Brace under the table every week. It's just a matter of when UA chooses to accept.
 
haggis79
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:56 am

I still don't see UA and DL happen, as both carriers are quite important to their respective alliances.... LH can afford loosing UA as their partner in the US as little as AF can afford loosing DL... at some point in the past, AF could have moved over to working with NW but with their newly developing transatlantic joint venture with DL I don't see that happening any more. The question is, of course, what could LH/AF do to prevent such a deal?

I still think it's more likely that, IF a merger happens, it's either gonna involve NW or B6. There have been rumors going on about DL being just about to announce their plans for JFK, but nothing happend... so might this be an indication there is something going on that involves JFK?  duck 
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nudelhirsch
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:04 am

Fleet commonality is overrated because in most cases each carrier has a large enough fleet with all the support existing. The first round of downsizing and saving will happen in CSR and gate presence. Also the purchasing power and commonality in procurement (catering, services...) will have an effect.

Just look at LH - it's a very diverse fleet, but well managed and thus successful.

A probable move would be that the large ones look at the small ones, especially LCC to streamline their regional ops with a LCC, let's just for example say AA and Spirit. Either merge Eagle into Spirit or vice versa... This is where I see merging potential, but not in the large ones merging along.

It's a matter of strong competition and what competition you want to get rid of. Look at Europe. FR takes it on with LH and BA, not so much with the other LCC, they target at the legacy's regional network. If a large carrier loses the feeder traffic to LCC people see less incentives in loyalty to a carrier. For example, normally they would have to fly AA or DL or UA out of their regional airport, now WN offers 3 convenient destinations from there, so they can pick the cheapest hub... DFW, ORD or ATL... Get the point? Long haul brings the cash but regional brings the customer... Here is where the most severe fight is taking place...
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:04 am

JFK is important but there is far more at stake in the next round of consolidation. Besides, DL can make JFK work on its own - it is well on its way.

Alliances are important but they will not dictate how the US carriers consolidate. Besides, UA+DL will mean that CO, NW, and US all become surplus to one alliance or another - and CO has indicated it would be fine not being tightly affiliated with any alliance. If US and NW merged after DL/UA, AF/KL could have much of their transatlantic capacity restored. Remember, DL has very little capacity into its alliance partners' hubs. DL's strength to an alliance is what it does on its own to Europe. But I'd love to see a good cat fight between the French and Germans for who gets to have DL/UA.

NW and DL have been talked about an aweful lot but NW still doesn't have a west coast presence and is still heavily tied to Japan. The difference between UA and NW's strategies is apparent in the fact that UA has been consistently making money to Asia - even though it was not much during its lowest point (aside from SARS). NW has not been consistently making money to Asia, even after restructuring. NW's network strategy to Asia has still not been shown to make money consistently. The 787 will help but that may just mean that NW has too much capacity at NRT.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:08 am

What a nice way to get merger support from the feds.... DL+B6 = JFK delay solution by eliminating the duplicate flights
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:08 am

The 787 will not help NW at all. It's a management problem that routes do not bring profit. Pricing too low, expenses too high, poor marketing, whatever... If UA can run a 747 or a 777 profitably to Japan, why can't NW? Just because NW does not have the 787? That's nonsense.
So far all airlines can buy all available models of aircrafts. The type is sure important in fleet management, but saying that a carrier does not have a certain model in the fleet is either stupid or a proof that the carrier runs a poor fleet management. And again we are back to poor management...
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:11 am

I see little chance of any of the Big Three (AA, UA, DL) being allowed to merge with each other....unless there are heavy divestitures (which would undermine the merger to start).

UA and DL would create such a large carrier, the DOJ would have a heart attack. In the moutain west, you'd have a near monopoly. Even in the Midwest, the combined carrier would create a duopoly with NW in many markets. And even in the Midatlantic region, you'd have problems. Not to mention that combining union and non-union employees would be tough.

If you factor in anti-trust and competition issues along with network growth, the only mergers that really work for DL are Northwest and Alaska.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 8):
Fleet commonality is overrated because in most cases each carrier has a large enough fleet with all the support existing. The first round of downsizing and saving will happen in CSR and gate presence. Also the purchasing power and commonality in procurement (catering, services...) will have an effect.



Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 8):
A probable move would be that the large ones look at the small ones

unless airline execs believe that it is possible to combine two network carriers and create a much larger airline... given that the former DOT chairman was suggesting that it's time to allow network carriers to consolidate, it is more of a question of when, not if. Besides, you will eliminate some LFC competition if network carriers and LFCs combine but you still have 6 US international carriers - way more than is needed.

How about instead we let the network carriers consolidate if that makes sense and they don't buy out their largest competitor while allowing LFCs to do the same thing - and they will?

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
DL+B6 = JFK delay solution by eliminating the duplicate flights

Possible but the DOJ is not going to accept eliminating airport congestion as an acceptable reason to allow consolidation of the two largest airlines in terms of flight in New York.

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 11):
If UA can run a 747 or a 777 profitably to Japan, why can't NW?

The problem is not the passengers flying to/from Japan. The problem is that NRT is a very expensive airport and NW is trying to sell connections - often double connections when other carriers are offering much faster connections on flights that overfly Japan.
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:17 am

Network growth is a wrong approach. Why should two carriers with mediocre loads merge? To combine their mediocrity?

It would be an overstocking of planes and crew... Terrible business decision.

The only way a merger makes sense is if a carrier can stabilize and enforce existing routes, for example by swallowing a regional airline or merging with a LCC.

Why would you marry a carrier and take over non-profitable routes, just for the sake of it?
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
LawnDart
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
While it is never going to happen, network-wise, I've always thought an AA/DL merger wouldn't be that bad.

I agree. To both your points.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
No one ever really brought up DL merging with AA.

July, 2005 thread titled : Thoughts on an AA/DL merger

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
AA could be a shrewd move but it doesn't necessarily fix the deficits in either network

What deficits? They would dominate the US-Europe / US-Latin America markets, would have a great head-start into India, Africa and the Middle East, and would be the number one carrier in ATL and DFW and the number two carrier in ORD...oh, and number one in JFK...LGA...DCA...BOS...LAX (?)...MIA and FLL...

Okay, so they lack in the Pacific...still ATL-NRT/ICN/SHA...NRT-ORD/JFK/LAX/DFW...PEK-ORD (?)...a good start.

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 7):
still don't see UA and DL happen, as both carriers are quite important to their respective alliances.... LH can afford loosing UA as their partner in the US as little as AF can afford loosing DL...

A combined UA/DL goes with LH, and AF starts over with a combined CO/NW...
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:20 am

Nobody would dominate a market after a merger.

If we agree that there are too many airlines serving a market, what would a merger help? It would increase one airline's capacity, and probably increase their losses too as the loads would only drop.

Does not make sense at all.
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
fewsolarge
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:24 am

The communication is clear that Delta wants to be the buyer in a consolidation scenario. So the driving force in that case would be what Delta needs:


  • An extensive Pacific network, including from the West Coast
  • Long haul aircraft
  • A Midwest hub with greater O&D than CVG
  • A West Coast franchise
  • Bulk in LA
  • LHR slots
  • Expanded/improved facilities at JFK


UA can deliver the first six. NW can deliver the first three, or the first five if in conjunction with AS. 9B can offer only the last. Seems like UA is pretty compelling to look at.
 
AlexPorter
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 17):
9B can offer only the last.

Who is 9B?
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
gigneil
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:35 am

I wish DL and NW would just get over the foreplay and do it. Of those available and willing, these two are the most complimentary.

NS
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 12):
UA and DL would create such a large carrier, the DOJ would have a heart attack.

maybe that is part of the strategy. Stroke 'em out and then move ahead.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 12):
In the moutain west, you'd have a near monopoly.

which is why I have consistently said that one of the 2 mountain hubs would be eliminated. And remember than NW and AS serve many of the same upper mountain markets and F9's operation is not exactly small. I'm not advocating DL and UA should be allowed to keep both SLC and DEN but they aren't the only 2 carriers serving the region.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 12):
the only mergers that really work for DL are Northwest and Alaska.

no... keep reading.

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 14):
Why should two carriers with mediocre loads merge?

you apparently don't understand that all of the US airlines have been carrying record high loads....

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 14):
The only way a merger makes sense is if a carrier can stabilize and enforce existing routes,

... and have dumped the fat from their route systems... there is very little in any of the network carriers that isn't working as good as it can. Not all carriers are equally profitable but they aren't carrying around the dead wood they were a couple years ago. They are in ideal shape to merge....

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 15):
A combined UA/DL goes with LH, and AF starts over with a combined CO/NW...

or vice versa....

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 16):
If we agree that there are too many airlines serving a market, what would a merger help?

eliminate duplicated overhead costs, allow some marginal hubs to be removed which are necessary if carriers remain alone but which are not needed when merged, dump ancillary assets such as frequent flyer programs, regional carriers, or maintenance bases....

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 17):
9B can offer only the last. Seems like UA is pretty compelling to look at.

I presume you are talking about B6 (JetBlue).

Yes, UA makes a far more compelling case than any other airline.... why go to the trouble of merging w/ anyone if you don't fix all the problems. Combining w/ NW just to fix one or two - and get a far more hostile workforce and more diverse fleet in the process - makes no sense.
 
Evan767
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 15):
July, 2005 thread titled : Thoughts on an AA/DL merger

Sorry if you couldn't infer it, but I was talking about recently with Delta expressing interest in a merger.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 20):
I'm not advocating DL and UA should be allowed to keep both SLC and DEN but they aren't the only 2 carriers serving the region.

DL and US weren't the only carrriers serving the Southeast, but you were screaming about the monopolies that would have been created had they merged.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 20):
Yes, UA makes a far more compelling case than any other airline....

But you're ignoring all the new problems created by a merger with UA. The labor relations wouldn't be any better than NW. The unionized UA workers aren't going to appreciate working with DL's anti-union management. The hub overlap of both SLC/DEN and CVG/ORD/IAD would be very problematic. There's no easy way to consolidate these hubs and the political fall-out would be tremendous. Not to mention that UA still has a lot of debt on the books that DL would inherit. You'd be left with incompatible mainline fleets, plus an excess of RJ's that are under long-term contracts.

I think the only way DL pulls off a UA merger is either by selling off big chunks of UA or by picking UA up in bankruptcy where contracts are more flexible.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
The problem is that NRT is a very expensive airport and NW is trying to sell connections - often double connections

...or triple connections for much of the SouthEast and and some of the SouthWest.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
whoopwhoop
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:56 am

AA and DAL. And you think oil and water dont mix! that would be ugly.
IMHO..I see NWA as a very good probability.
 
gigneil
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:11 am

Delta and United merging has a low probability of happening. Period. I doubt they even want to.

United is never going to let Delta purchase them, much less agree to the Delta name. The United Air Lines name is older and more widely known.

NS
 
daron4000
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:16 am

Or couldn't they just buy UA/UA buy DL and operate under separate certificates- sort of like LH and LX or AF and KLM?
 
gigneil
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:32 am

The only reason that's of value to the Euro carriers is preserving national treaty allocations.

In the US, fully merging companies is much more valuable.

NS
 
atlaaron
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:32 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
Possible but the DOJ is not going to accept eliminating airport congestion as an acceptable reason to allow consolidation of the two largest airlines in terms of flight in New York.

You really think the DOJ would have a problem letting B6 and DL merge? I don't, there are plenty of other carriers heavily serving NYC. I think it might make sense for DL to take out B6. Would DL then begin selling off the Airbuses?

While it would create a mega airline that would a force to be reckoned with, I would hate to see either the United or Delta name go.
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 25):
The United Air Lines name is older and more widely known.

Not so fast...

United Aircraft - Transport Corp was named such in 1929.

Huff Daland Dusters was renamed Delta Air Service in 1928.

While I think it easy to assume that United is a more widely known name, I don't know of any research that indicates this is actually the case. Certainly they each have regional strengths. You'd have a hard time convincing me that United is better known in South America, Europe and Africa than Delta. Similarly, United is clearly far better known in Asia. In fact, UA didn't even fly overseas until 1983, five years after Delta.

Domestically, it is completely irrelevant as both carriers very well-known. In fact, Delta is more geographically diverse in the U.S. and carries significantly more traffic, so it is quite likely Delta is a better know brand.

I'm simply not going to buy into any assumptions that the United brand survives, when clearly there is little evidence to indicate it is better known globally. I also think most would agree that the UA brand is the far more "damaged" of the two.
 
gigneil
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:59 am

You were right, I was off a year.

As I was telling MSYTristar earlier, the closer I get to 30 the further gone my mind is.

 Smile

NS
 
fewsolarge
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 17):
Who is 9B?

That's pretty funny. Actually, 9B is my grandparents' apartment number from the 70s. I hope others were thinking more clearly than I was, and realized I meant B6. Oops.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:01 pm

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 29):
I also think most would agree that the UA brand is the far more "damaged" of the two.

I don't agree at all. Both companies have damaged their brands pretty severely over the past decade. DL's biggest brand issue is that the carrier is still trying to shed the "budget airline to Florida" perception among many Americans and "budget airline to the States" among many Europeans.

Nonetheless, I think a merger between the two is unlikely and would probably be a disaster if attempted.
 
Griffair
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:33 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 25):
United is never going to let Delta purchase them, much less agree to the Delta name. The United Air Lines name is older and more widely known.



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
I don't agree at all. Both companies have damaged their brands pretty severely over the past decade.

Which begs the questions - What about changing brands in Asia if a DL/UA or DL/NW occurs?
After decades of service in Asia by NW, how mega is their brand in the region, or outside Tokyo? Would changing it have negative impact? Similarly with UA after 21 years of Pacific Ops?
 
william
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:40 pm

I think mergers in the future will involve spinoffs...........US set the tone when it tried to buy DL by inviting bidders to buy chunks of it offsetting the huge takeover bill. I could see the DOJ letting DL buy UA if say DL spins off DEN to Frontier,SWA or CO. DL really wants the SFO Asia gateway and ORD really.

DL /NWA would spin off either DTW or MSP..........And yes I think they would keep MEM,DL has a long history with MEM and it would be a nice overflow for ATL.

The legacy carriers know,just know DOJ will demand spinoffs,and the last thing the legacies want is a stronger SWA growing stronger buying spinoff gates,slots or hub.

Thats why the legacies seem to be tip toeing through this process.
 
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STT757
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:03 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 12):
I see little chance of any of the Big Three (AA, UA, DL) being allowed to merge with each other....unless there are heavy divestitures (which would undermine the merger to start).

Totally agree, the three Largest US Carriers (AA, UAL, DL) are not going to be allowed to merge with one another. It's going have to be between AA, UAL and DL with CO, NWA and US.

NWA's Golden Share means CO will not make the first move, they have to wait for NWA to change control. Otherwise the only other way CO can merge with another carrier is an all cash transaction with CO being the acquirer.

UAL/DL is not happening, it's going to be DL/NWA. The only issue is whether AA starts a bidding war for NWA, DL is in the weakest cash position of the 6 Major legacies. AA with $5.6 Billion in the bank can put together some pretty aggressive packages for NWA, most likely AA can blow any DL bid out of the water. The change of control at NWA would then free CO to pursue a merger with UAL, thus leaving DL/US.

This is how Gordon Bethune stated he saw the industry shaking out in a recent interview, makes more sense than AA/DL or UAL/DL.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
bobnwa
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
The problem is not the passengers flying to/from Japan. The problem is that NRT is a very expensive airport and NW is trying to sell connections - often double connections when other carriers are offering much faster connections on flights that overfly Japan.

A large % of the passengers that NWA boards in NRT are originating in Japan to other points in Asia. Thus they have non stops to SIN,TPE,MNL,BKK,China,Korea etc. Their total market consists of many markets, Asia connections thru Japan to the US, US connections to Asia via Japan, Japan to US and US to Japan. The Asia and Japan originating markets are the largest.
 
atlaaron
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:34 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 35):
DL is in the weakest cash position of the 6 Major legacies.

How much cash does DL have on hand?
 
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STT757
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:48 pm

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 37):
How much cash does DL have on hand?

AA: $5.4 Billion
UAL: $4.2 Billion
NWA: $3.3 Billion
CO: $3.0 Billion
US: $2.6 Billion
DL: $2.4 Billion
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
bobnwa
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:58 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 35):
NWA's Golden Share means CO will not make the first move, they have to wait for NWA to change control. Otherwise the only other way CO can merge with another carrier is an all cash transaction with CO being the acquirer

If control of Northwest does not change, then Continental cannot be a merger partner in any form with any carrier unless the deal is approved by Northwest. NWA would probably be willing to sell this right for the proper considerations. The CEO's of the other carriers are very well aware of the rights of this "golden share" and a number of them were with NWA when it was negotiated.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:04 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 12):
I see little chance of any of the Big Three (AA, UA, DL) being allowed to merge with each other....unless there are heavy divestitures (which would undermine the merger to start).

Not that I disagree with that, but in theory, a merger AA/DL for example might include a few divestitures that would make it more "attractive" for the DOJ to allow. Particularly at LGA, DL and AA have loads of duplicate RJ service on many. E.g. I believe both combined have 10-12 daily RJ flights to RDU. Turn that into 4-6 737 or M80 flights, and you have both synergies for the carrier, and made slots available for others. Ditto for quite a few routes out of JFK as well, and these days also LAX. Factor in the potential of building either STL or CVG up to be an actual ORD reliver, and it looks even more attractive.

But as has been said before, the chance of that merger happening is probably 0.0000...0001%.
 
aa1818
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:07 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
They would be a key player in seven of America's ten largest markets - Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, LA, Miami, and NYC.

What are the other 3?

I agree that a tie up of AA and DL would be quite a force to be reckoned with!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:15 pm

If you are interested in cutting capacity the US attempt to buy DL was a good one. DL hated that idea, so just reverse it. DL should buy US. Same outcome: Different management.
 
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STT757
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:19 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 39):
If control of Northwest does not change, then Continental cannot be a merger partner in any form with any carrier unless the deal is approved by Northwest.

CO acquiring another carrier in an all cash transaction that does not include stock in the deal is not subject to the Golden Share, the Golden Share only comes into play with stock transactions.
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SESGDL
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:21 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 41):

What are the other 3?

The Bay area, the D.C. Area, and Philadelphia. Las Vegas is also one of the largest, so one of these cities shouldn't be there. I'm pretty sure BOS is not in the Top 10 in terms of O&D and market size, I could be wrong.

Jeremy
 
bobnwa
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:04 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 43):
CO acquiring another carrier in an all cash transaction that does not include stock in the deal is not subject to the Golden Share, the Golden Share only comes into play with stock transactions

I believe you are wrong, but I guess you believe I am wrong. Lets just agree to disagree.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:26 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 19):
I wish DL and NW would just get over the foreplay and do it. Of those available and willing, these two are the most complimentary.

From and equipment (except those DC-9s) and route stucture, yes, you are correct. But, DL is non-union, mostly (save the pilots and FAs). It will not want to deal with the militant union mechanics, and customer service people, DLs already has some of the best CS and mechanics.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 44):
I'm pretty sure BOS is not in the Top 10 in terms of O&D and market size, I could be wrong.

No, for AA, BOS is a big market.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:33 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 46):
It will not want to deal with the militant union mechanics, and customer service people, DLs already has some of the best CS and mechanics.

The militant mechanics at NWA are basically all gone. The AMFA went on strike, and NWA hired replacements. I don't believe the flight attendants at DAL are union.
 
andrewuber
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:33 pm

If they have so much money, perhaps it would be better to merge with an oil company at this point.  bigthumbsup 

Maybe Citgo?  duck 

Drew
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Delta Still Weighing Buying Another Carrier

Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 46):
From and equipment (except those DC-9s) and route stucture, yes, you are correct. But, DL is non-union, mostly (save the pilots and FAs). It will not want to deal with the militant union mechanics, and customer service people, DLs already has some of the best CS and mechanics.



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 47):
The militant mechanics at NWA are basically all gone. The AMFA went on strike, and NWA hired replacements. I don't believe the flight attendants at DAL are union.

Bobnwa is right. The only unionized employees at Delta are the pilots and the dispatchers.
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