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PanAm_DC10
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Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:34 pm

As we know Boeing have a policy of allowing their customers to announce their orders when they wish. This week the momentum builds with LAN, WJ and now Cathay Pacific placing their largest ever direct order with Boeing.

The lead up to the Dubai Airshow is on and this is well covered in the Official Dubai 2007 Airshow: Boeing Thread this order warrants it's own thread.

Cathay Pacific have ordered the following:

7 x 777-300ER to take their total firm orders for the model to 30, and;

10 x 747-8F plus 14 x Purchase Rights

From the Cathay Pacific website;

Cathay Pacific places order for 17 more new aircraft
8 November 2007


Cathay Pacific Airways today announced its biggest-ever direct-purchase commitment for new aircraft, placing firm orders for 10 Boeing 747-8 Freighters and a further seven Boeing 777-300ER passenger aircraft directly from the Boeing Company. The airline has also taken up purchase rights for another 14 of the new freighter type.

The announcement for the new aircraft order – valued at approximately US$5.2 billion at list prices - comes as Cathay Pacific continues to expand its fleet and further develop its passenger and cargo services to further strengthen Hong Kong’s position as a leading international aviation hub.

The airline currently operates 19 freighters and before today’s announcement already had commitments for eight more - six Boeing 747-400ERF Extended Range Freighters and two 747-400BCF Boeing Converted Freighters - for delivery by 2009. The addition of the 10 new Boeing 747-8F new-generation freighters will enhance the airline’s cargo capacity and at the same time allow it to begin a phased withdrawal of its fleet of seven older, less fuel-efficient Boeing 747-200F “Classic” freighters by 2012.

The order for additional Boeing 777-300ER passenger aircraft means Cathay Pacific now has a firm commitment for 30 of the aircraft type for delivery by 2012, making it the largest such commitment of any airline in Asia for the 777-300ER. Three have already been delivered and will be used to operate the airline’s fast-expanding long-haul services primarily to North America, starting with the third daily flight to New York which launches 15 November.


http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/homepage Click on the press release on the right side of the screen

- This is Cathay's biggest-ever direct-purchase commitment for new aircraft

- Takes them to 30 firm 777-300ERs all for delivery by 2012

- Raises the question, when will they next order further 777-300ERs and is the Model destined for any of their affiliates

- Are the 748-F Purchase Rights quietly convertible into the 747-8i? Or are they entirely to cover future 742F / 744BCF retirements and other frames?

- Do they require a regional Freighter or is demand and projected growth only able to be met by what they have plus existing space on their PAX fleet?

- What is their position on their future VLA PAX Requirement. Cargo = 748-F, Pax = Possible future A380 order?

This is an order of substance, thoughts and opinions would be appreciated, let the discussion progress. Thank you

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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Stitch
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:45 pm

I see this important for two points:

1. CX is a serious 747 passenger-to-freighter conversion customer, yet they still see a need for a fleet of new-build freighters. So the 747-8F may not quite be under the threat from 744BCF and 744SF conversions as some think...

2. Having just recently taken delivery of their first three 77Ws with two more out at PAE, adding another seven immediately seems to be a vote of confidence in the type.
 
Burkhard
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:46 pm

Congrats to Boeing and Cathay! Good for the 748 program.
 
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:57 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
WJ

Must have missed this order, can you elaborate?
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:00 pm

It's good to see more 747-8's ordered. I'd heard another order was getting close. It's good to see it from CX.

This also shows CX's commitment to the 777. They were one of the first and are one of the most loyal customers for the airplane type. They must like what they are getting out of the 773ERs already in the fleet.
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:03 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Raises the question, when will they next order further 777-300ERs and is the Model destined for any of their affiliates

I would think they would continue to take them if they can find a home.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Are the 748-F Purchase Rights quietly convertible into the 747-8i? Or are they entirely to cover future 742F / 744BCF retirements and other frames?

I am sure they are convertible, but I still feel the A380 is going to be CX's VLA of choice over the next two decades.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Do they require a regional Freighter or is demand and projected growth only able to be met by what they have plus existing space on their PAX fleet?

That I cannot answer. I would think the A332F would make a very good regional freighter.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
What is their position on their future VLA PAX Requirement. Cargo = 748-F, Pax = Possible future A380 order?

My money, such as it is, would be on the A380.
 
andrewtang
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:08 pm

Did anyone realise the graphic for the CX 748F render shows it in Full CX colour instead of bare metal. This may fit in with the recent rumours that the bare metal are not as good as it was originally intended for.
 
behramjee
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:23 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
My money, such as it is, would be on the A380.

My money too would be on a future A 380 order (in 2 years) as CX would need this aircraft to effectively compete against EK/KE/TG/SQ/LH/AF on Europe-Asia and Europe-Australia routes flown via Asian hubs.

I forsee many A 343 operated routes to Europe and North America being replaced by the B 773ER in due course.
 
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:03 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
10 x 747-8F plus 14 x Purchase Rights

Is this along with the (6) 744ERF they placed back in June 06' or is this a order conversion?

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
- Takes them to 30 firm 777-300ERs all for delivery by 2012

They are now playing with the carriers that operate large 77W fleets... AF & EK!

http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersNews/idUSHKG434320071108
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:28 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
Is this along with the (6) 744ERF they placed back in June 06' or is this a order conversion?

Answer is below:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
The airline currently operates 19 freighters and before today’s announcement already had commitments for eight more - six Boeing 747-400ERF Extended Range Freighters and two 747-400BCF Boeing Converted Freighters - for delivery by 2009. The addition of the 10 new Boeing 747-8F new-generation freighters will enhance the airline’s cargo capacity and at the same time allow it to begin a phased withdrawal of its fleet of seven older, less fuel-efficient Boeing 747-200F “Classic” freighters by 2012.



Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
They are now playing with the carriers that operate large 77W fleets... AF & EK!

According to Wikipedia, SIA has 11 of 19 ordered 777-300ERs on hand as a part of its fleet of 65 777s, so I'd add them to the list too.
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:33 pm

A shame they didn't order the 748I, but who knows in the future...
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flysherwood
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:37 pm

I can't believe we haven't heard from Keesje regarding this. Oh yeah, that's right, it is a 747 order!!!  Smile Way to go CX and Boeing. I guess that reports of the 777's demise were a little premature.
 
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:52 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):

- Are the 748-F Purchase Rights quietly convertible into the 747-8i? Or are they entirely to cover future 742F / 744BCF retirements and other frames?

IMO not. The timing of this announcement is highly interesting as it is only days after Boeing firmed the B747-800I configuration. I think CX was looking to see how Boeing decided: go for Emirates or leave it as it is.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
- What is their position on their future VLA PAX Requirement. Cargo = 748-F, Pax = Possible future A380 order?

The B747-800I tops out with the configuration and is limited as a future growth plattform. All traffic projections for Asia show a massive increase in passengers travelling, and that indicates that at one point the A380-900 will become a realitiy out of necessity. HAving the A380 already in your fleet will give you a learning curve how to cope with a real double-decker - and it gives you the option to increase your revenue potential over the B748.

Still, they might go the way Lufthansa has gone, but I doubt it. They had every chance to go for the B748 NOW, but they obviously have selected just the Freighter.
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:59 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 11):
A shame they didn't order the 748I, but who knows in the future...

It doesn't surprise me that CX ordered the 747-8F; it needed a large freighter and clearly, the A380F is a non-runner. The 747-8F was always going to be the better choice for CX. Nor do I think that the 747-8F order makes the pax model inevitable (for CX), because after the 747-8, where does it go? That's it, no growth potential, which there will be with the A380 (-900). BA cited revenue potential as a major factor in its decision and this will no doubt influence other carriers.
 
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:06 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 13):
All traffic projections for Asia show a massive increase in passengers travelling, and that indicates that at one point the A380-900 will become a realitiy out of necessity. HAving the A380 already in your fleet will give you a learning curve how to cope with a real double-decker - and it gives you the option to increase your revenue potential over the B748.

The A380 has been for sale for 7 years!!! Why haven't they ordered it yet? They have 42 777's on order, so it is not like they are not buying anything at this time.
 
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:20 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 12):
Still, they might go the way Lufthansa has gone, but I doubt it. They had every chance to go for the B748 NOW, but they obviously have selected just the Freighter.

I think your argument applies to both the A380 and 748I equally. The A380 has been on sale for seven years, afterall.

Personally, I believe CX's strategy is emminently sensible and responsible. With Oasis, CX faces the prospect of at least two challengers on many of its routes, with LHR seeing BA, VS, NZ, QF, Oasis and CX. That's an awful lot of capacity to justify A380s, which don't provide the flexibility of the 77Ws. They can't be as efficiently deployed across the CX network as a 777 can.

I'm NOT saying the A380 is unsuitable for all airlines. I am saying that its usefulness is limited to a handful of international routes and that while it works for some airlines, for others it wont. CX is apparently pursuing an alternative strategy.

If Airbus goes ahead with an A380-900, then that would change things. I think the -900 would be enough of a capacity change to really affect the market. However, given that Airbus have yet to sell more than 200 frames of the baseline model(please correct me if I'm wrong) when breakeven is in the 400s somewhere (again, please correct me if wrong), it would be a very hard business case to put forth.

[Edited 2007-11-08 13:23:53]
 
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:31 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 13):
That's it, no growth potential, which there will be with the A380 (-900). BA cited revenue potential as a major factor in its decision and this will no doubt influence other carriers.

This argument always perplexes me.

They have purchased 30 77Ws, with very little prospect of growth potential there in terms of fuselage growth. Yes they purchased the baseline 777, but they also purchased the baseline 747 and the 748 is the end of the line, as the 77W is. Kind of voids the "growth potential" argument, doesn't it?

[Edited 2007-11-08 13:43:45]
 
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:35 pm

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 11):
I can't believe we haven't heard from Keesje regarding this. Oh yeah, that's right, it is a 747 order!!!

I think few people doubt the current market position of the 747-8F. Its the 747-8i.

Maybe Cathay ordering 773ER´s +747-8F´s helps sink in some reality.

I doubt it. BA, QF and SQ skipping it didn´t ring a bell either.. maybe the Chinese..

Yes the Chinese, they owe the US some trade balancing !
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:48 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 16):
This (growth potential) argument always perplexes me.

(CX) have purchased 30 77Ws (and there is) very little prospect of growth potential there in terms of fuselage (size). Yes they purchased the baseline 777, but they also purchased the baseline 747 and the 748 is the end of the line, as the 77W is. Kind voids the "growth potential" argument, doesn't it?

The new HKG airport is not nearly as slot and capacity constrained as the old one was. So CX likely is not facing any real capacity constraints their nor likely is seeing anything elsewhere outside of maybe LHR.



I am starting to form the opinion that the best sales agent for the A380-800 is EK. They seem to have put the fear of Allah into any carrier that flies between the EU and Oceania/Australia.

I really believe SQ invested heavily in the A380 to try and keep SIN relevant in the face of DXB/JXB.

QF no doubt fears SQ eventually being granted route-authority between Australia and North America so they bought the A388 both to protect them should that day ever come as well as to fight-off SQ's and EK's A388s on the Kangaroo Route.

BA had a choice - fly the A388 or give up serving Australia.

Airlines like MH and TG and QR who have bought a handful are going to use them to serve LHR because the slots they have now are the only slots they're likely to have, so they need the biggest plane they can get to grow traffic on that route.

AF and LH are about the only major A388 purchases I can think of that were not driven by either the need to serve LHR or the prospect of facing EK on core trunk routes. LH and UA drive a ton of TATL traffic so the A388 is a natural growth model for them. And of AF's North American partners, only NW flies the 747, so about the only way to grow TATL traffic is to grow the plane or the frequencies and the former is likely cheaper.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:57 pm

It appears these are new orders, not previous "Unidentified" orders.

As such, they bring 2007 777 net orders to 110, making 2007 the third best year for 777 net sales.

2005 - 153
2000 - 116
2007 - 110
1995 - 101
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flysherwood
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):
I think few people doubt the current market position of the 747-8F

That's all Boeing needs to make money on the entire program. Airbus on the other hand...  Yeah sure
 
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 19):
It appears these are new orders, not previous "Unidentified" orders.

As such, they bring 2007 777 net orders to 110, making 2007 the third best year for 777 net sales.

2005 - 153
2000 - 116
2007 - 110

So much for the A350 killing off the 777...
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ebbuk
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:06 am

It would appear that Cathay are following their OneWorld partner American Airline's strategy of playing in the big league with small planes (A380 giant, 748 big, 773ER small)

It has it's advantages in a conservative kind of way. Still my favourite airline.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 22):
So much for the A350 killing off the 777...

Just like the 787 didn't kill off the A330.

Airlines can't wait 8 years for planes they need now. 2-3 years is bad enough. But to wait 8, that's 5 years of lost revenue for expansion, or 5 years of high costs to operate old planes. (only QF is that short sighted...  Wink )

So the A350 won't kill off the 777 completely until 2017. By 2017, Boeing will have a response of some kind.

The 787 won't kill off the A330 completely until about 2012. But the A350-900 arrives in 2013 and the A350-800 in 2014, so Airbus is covered at least on the A330-300 front.
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:49 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
- Are the 748-F Purchase Rights quietly convertible into the 747-8i? Or are they entirely to cover future 742F / 744BCF retirements and other frames?

I think the latter rather than the former. I wouldn't rule out a CX order for the 748i at some point in the future, but I wouldn't lay any money on it either.
As for the 748F order, it's just more proof that any current 747F operator is a likely 748F buyer. I'd say very few current 747F operators won't buy the 748F.
Nice to see a bunch more 777's as well - there's still value to this plane and the A350 won't kill it for a few more years yet. By then Boeing will have wrung out as much money as possible from the program.
 
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:51 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 24):
But the A350-900 arrives in 2013 and the A350-800 in 2014, so Airbus is covered at least on the A330-300 front.

Thats an optimistic estimate at best. But what can you do if you're buying airplanes, order , wait, and hope. I too think QF would have really been glad to be flying a fleet of a few dozen 77Ws if they had ordered and received them by now.

[Edited 2007-11-08 16:55:17]
 
VC10DC10
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting ER757 (Reply 25):
I'd say very few current 747F operators won't buy the 748F.

What do you think about Northwest?
 
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 26):
Thats an optimistic estimate at best. But what can you do if you're buying airplanes, order , wait, and hope.

What I mean is that Airbus will sell a lot of A330-300s up until the A350 starts delivering, and then the A333 will die off, but so what? Airbus has it covered.

Boeing has a lot of time to come up with an A350-1000 answer. Availability of the A350-1000 is still 8 years off. Boeing can launch a response program in 2010-2011.
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 19):
As such, they bring 2007 777 net orders to 110, making 2007 the third best year for 777 net sales.

And considering the bulk of those are 77Ws followed by 77Fs with a smattering of 77Ls and 77Es, and taking into account list/sale price inflation, I would not be surprised if this is the best year for 777 sales in terms of revenue.
 
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:05 am

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 26):
Quoting ER757 (Reply 25):
I'd say very few current 747F operators won't buy the 748F.

What do you think about Northwest?

I think NW will be a 748F customer eventually. Their CEO is on record as saying that's his preferred option when it comes to replacing the 742F's - 744 pax conversions are another option and of course available funding will play a key role in determining how they proceed.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 26):
What do you think about Northwest?



Quoting ER757 (Reply 29):
I think NW will be a 748F customer eventually.

If they use the nose door on their 747-200Fs, then I agree. Otherwise, 744BCFs might be better for them.
 
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 30):
If they use the nose door on their 747-200Fs, then I agree

Yes - they definitely use the nose doors. I've given them oversized cargo in the past and watched it get loaded
 
iwok
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
10 x 747-8F plus 14 x Purchase Rights

Interesting news. I you go to the Boeing sales update on the website, the 748's are not shown. I wonder why?

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
Is this along with the (6) 744ERF they placed back in June 06' or is this a order conversion?

Perhapse, part of the order is a conversion and that's not why the new 748's are posted yet?

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 16):
They have purchased 30 77Ws, with very little prospect of growth potential there in terms of fuselage growth. Yes they purchased the baseline 777, but they also purchased the baseline 747 and the 748 is the end of the line, as the 77W is.

Yes, I've always thought that arguement was a little wierd. I mean, if you buy a 388, there is no growth potential for it because you aren't going to stretch a plane once its in service. What's the "growth potential" for a 77W? So I think this arguement is essentially meaningless.  scratchchin 

If we use this arguement, then it makes perfect sense for CX to get 748i's because the pilots are already trained, but as we know the decision will be made on the airframe alone, and not what the plane or pilots who fly it can do in 20-years.

iwok
 
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting Iwok (Reply 32):
Perhapse, part of the order is a conversion and that's not why the new 748's are posted yet?

If this is the case, according to my understanding of what Boeing is doing in regards to the transition between the 747-400ERF/F and 747-8F, there will be 6 slots for 747-400ERFs coming on the market shortly. Or Boeing could accelerate the transition between the -400ERF and -8F by these 6 slots.
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:11 am

Quoting Iwok (Reply 32):
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
10 x 747-8F plus 14 x Purchase Rights

Interesting news. I you go to the Boeing sales update on the website, the 748's are not shown. I wonder why?

To Clarify, the Boeing Website is updated only until November 6th. This was announced November 8th.

Quoting Iwok (Reply 32):
Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
Is this along with the (6) 744ERF they placed back in June 06' or is this a order conversion?

Perhapse, part of the order is a conversion and that's not why the new 748's are posted yet?

Boeing updated the October Database on their O&D spreadsheet. It is not reflected. CX is still listed as taking the 6 x 744ERF. These 10 x 748-Fs are new orders. If you do a user defined report on the Boeing site it lists 63 firm 747-8F orders to date.

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

From the Boeing Media release they state the following;

With today's announcement, Cathay Pacific becomes the eighth airline to order the 747-8 Freighter, bringing the Boeing total to 73 orders for the highly efficient new cargo airplane.

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2007/q4/071108c_nr.html

They retain their 6 x 744ERF orders placed on June 22, 2006 and there is no conversion. The increase in 10 new orders is reflected in the Media release above.

As for the 777 CX took 20 x Purchase Rights when they placed their initial order. They now have 7 of those remaining.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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United Airline
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:55 am

I suppose these B 777-300ERs are not going to replace anything except maybe a few A 340-300s from SQ (Are they still in the fleet?) as well as the A 340-600s

Wonder when will they order the B 747-8 and the A 380. Let's say 20-25 B 747-8s and 5-10 A 380s
 
United Airline
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 12):
Still, they might go the way Lufthansa has gone, but I doubt it. They had every chance to go for the B748 NOW, but they obviously have selected just the Freighter.

I suppose CX wants to see how the B 747-8 and A 380 perform in reality before they order anything
 
karan69
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 27):
What I mean is that Airbus will sell a lot of A330-300s up until the A350 starts delivering

What is the next best replacement the market has to offer, i dont see the 783 being as successful as the 333.

How would the 359 or 7810 compete against it in terms of OEW against the 333

Karan
 
Flighty
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting Iwok (Reply 32):
What's the "growth potential" for a 77W? So I think this arguement is essentially meaningless.

Uh, the 77W is part of a "family." That means you can have 1 pool of mechanics, spares and pilots (more or less) and FAs to run 2 fleets, big and small.

The A380 is also going to "bloom" when people realize the A380 is to be a family also -- A388 and A389. This leads to a superior product that is flexible through time to match demand. A single airplane size cannot do that, but 2 sizes can provide smooth flexibility that gets very close to perfection. That's what A319/A320 dual fleets are so popular. You can adjust your capacity in perfect freedom.

The 748I does not offer this. The future A389 will be a huge selling point for today's A388 as well as the lighter A388 v1.1. People now realize the A380 system will be flexible, and furthermore the A389 promises to alter everybody's competitiveness in fuel efficiency with respect to premium cabin luxury.

The original A388 did not make sense to me at first, but the A380 family can become something great in the future.
 
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CCA
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:13 am

I hope we get to see the 742F, 744F, 744BCF, 744ERF & 748F all in CX colors at once, should be a one of a kind shot for the database.
P1 in A330, A340, A346, B742, B744, B748.
 
EGCC777LR
Crew
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:50 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):

They must like what they are getting out of the 773ERs already in the fleet.

Surely everyone loves what there getting from there 77W's  Wink

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 19):

As such, they bring 2007 777 net orders to 110, making 2007 the third best year for 777 net sales

 Big grin  highfive 
Flown On B704,722,732/3/4/7/8/9,744,752,762/3/4,772,77W,A319,A320,A321,A330,A388,L1011,F-50,BAE146,CRJ100, Dash-8. Left
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting Andrewtang (Reply 6):
Did anyone realise the graphic for the CX 748F render shows it in Full CX colour instead of bare metal. This may fit in with the recent rumours that the bare metal are not as good as it was originally intended for.



Quoting Andrewtang (Reply 6):
Did anyone realise the graphic for the CX 748F render shows it in Full CX colour instead of bare metal. This may fit in with the recent rumours that the bare metal are not as good as it was originally intended for.

The Silver Bullets were doing ok, and did save weight over the standard paint scheme. For the 748F, Boeing has told CX that they have a newer much lighter paint available and given the additional costs of keeping the silver looking nice, and the loss of marketing value by having a different colour scheme than the rest of the fleet, they will be painted with this new lighter paint.
 
WINGS
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:46 am



Cool image from Boeing, to celebrate another great achievement for the 748F and 77W program. Both the undisputed leaders in their respective classes.  Smile

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
Norcal773
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:30 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
They were one of the first and are one of the most loyal customers for the airplane type. They must like what they are getting out of the 773ERs already in the fleet.

CX isn't among the first airline to operate the type unless you're referring to the 773 and not the 77W. Their first 77W was delivered less than two months ago.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
andrewtang
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:42 am

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 41):
The Silver Bullets were doing ok, and did save weight over the standard paint scheme. For the 748F, Boeing has told CX that they have a newer much lighter paint available and given the additional costs of keeping the silver looking nice, and the loss of marketing value by having a different colour scheme than the rest of the fleet, they will be painted with this new lighter paint.

Thanks CX flyboy. So for the upcoming 747-467ERF, will those frames be wearing those new lighter paint?  Smile
 
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CCA
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:54 am

Anyone else think the lettering should be enlarged?
P1 in A330, A340, A346, B742, B744, B748.
 
na
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:11 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 35):
I suppose these B 777-300ERs are not going to replace anything except maybe a few A 340-300s from SQ (Are they still in the fleet?) as well as the A 340-600s

As there are only the 3 odd A346s in CX fleet I think that replacement by the new order is a safe bet. The A343s are getting old by 2012, but also the 772s and soon afterwards the 773(A)s. Remember the 773A, being used as short- and mid-range aircraft, age considerably faster than the longhaul 744s or A346. And CX got some of the first built. By 2012 they must be considered old in terms of cycles.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 36):
I suppose CX wants to see how the B 747-8 and A 380 perform in reality before they order anything

I think so too. The 14 748F options can easily be changed to 748Is. Quite comfortable and clever to hide a decision probably secretly already made? With 773ERs alone they won´t stand the competion for long.
 
columba
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 46):
The 14 748F options can easily be changed to 748Is.

The question is does CX needs 24 747 freighters if they convert all options ? Or does a fleet of 12 747-8I and 12 747-8F make more sense for them ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
na
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:44 pm

Even the oldest of CX 747-400F/BCFs should still be good for a further 12-15 years of service, so its only the 7 742s which must be replaced in the foreseeable future. It rmains a question wether CX will sell the 747-400Fs to secondhand buyers (unlike the 742s, which as I can judge from my armchair, will be flown until final retirement - most are really old already, some are well beyond 100.000 hours now). Unless CX expects explosive growth of about 100% in the next 5/6 years it can well be speculated that the options serve a dual purpose. The much more so as it will be possible that some of the 773 orders made could also be transferred to 748Is without too much hustle if a descision for this type is made.
But still my gut feeling is 60/40 in favour of A380s as future CX flagship.
 
columba
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RE: Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773ER & 10 X 747-8F

Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:03 pm

Another approach on the question if CX is leaning towards the A380 or 747-8I is to take a look at which airlines that have ordered the 747-8F also have the A380 on order.
I can only think of Korean and Emirates.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong

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