QF175
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Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:08 am

From Travel Daily - Thursday 8 November 2007
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Quote:
Major EK news pending

EMIRATES ceo Tim Clark will visit Australia within the next couple of weeks, with his arrival expected to see some major announcements about the deployment of additional capacity in the Australian market.

EK senior vice-president commercial for Australasia and East Asia, Richard Vaughan, told TD yesterday the carrier is experiencing very high load factors and is “struggling to find seats for the demand”.

And although Emirates will take delivery of 24 new aircraft in the next 18 months, Vaughan wasn’t able to disclose where the planes would be deployed across the airline’s network, except to say that he expected the current constraints to be partly addressed when Clark is in Australia.

The carrier is also expected to place orders for further planes at next week’s Dubai Air Show and is eagerly awaiting its first A380, due next Aug at about the same time as QF receives its initial super-jumbo....

Source: Travel Daily 08NOV07

Maybe we'll hear about their intentions to fly A380s to MEL and SYD next year?

Perhaps they want to increase MEL/PER/SYD to thrice daily...

Maybe they will also announce the much talked about and rumoured 2nd daily nonstop DXB-BNE service with the 77W or 345 (might be a higher priority now that EY is flying to BNE).

What are peoples' views/thoughts? Does anyone think it will be about EK flying A380s to Australia on existing services or about additional flights?

Interesting times ahead...

Cheers

[Edited 2007-11-08 21:11:47]
 
khi747
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:52 am

Sure it is very interesting actually.I always find it fascinating how EK has established itself down under in such a massive way without absolutely any O&D traffic to rely on (specially at the start).This is the magic of EK business model,the new king of connectivity-by leveraging its geographical location and virtually unlimited capital reserves.

Tell me something,specially since you are from Australia.What is the nature of the bulk of the traffic from Australia on EK.Is most of it bound for Europe (specially UK)? My personal opinion is :

1, Europe + North Africa
2, Increasing number to JFK
3, EK has created a new tourism market for Aussies and now an increasing number are coming to DXB.
4, Business traffic between Aus/NZ and GCC countries.

And i have no doubt that there is still plenty of room for them to grow in Australia and i have a feeling this will be at the expense of QANTAS and other European airlines that operate there.Once west coast flights to USA commence,it may even impact the US carriers there.

But the even more fascinating part is that they have barely begun to scratch the surface of huge markets like US and South America/Canada.I have no doubt they will replicate their success of Australia in those markets as well.
 
threepoint
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
I always find it fascinating how EK has established itself down under in such a massive way without absolutely any O&D traffic to rely on (specially at the start).This is the magic of EK business model,the new king of connectivity-by leveraging its geographical location and virtually unlimited capital reserve



Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
i have no doubt that there is still plenty of room for them to grow in Australia and i have a feeling this will be at the expense of QANTAS



Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
that they have barely begun to scratch the surface of huge markets like US and South America/Canada.I have no doubt they will replicate their success of Australia in those markets as well.

Not if the Canadian government has anything to do with it. Witness the latest air services agreement signed between Canada and Singapore and read up on EK's success getting into Canadian markets so far (just YYZ). There is a concerted effort to restrict the ability of carriers such as EK and SQ from doing in Canada exactly what they're doing in Australia, to the detriment of the local and other carriers. If you had a viable non-stop Australia - Europe fleet that could overfly the intermediate hubs like Dubai, you'd see the likes of EK retrenching significantly from the land down under. Similarly, non-stop fights between Canada and India would chill EK's desire to enter the major Canadian markets.
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:45 pm

Quoting QF175 (Thread starter):

Perhaps they want to increase MEL/PER/SYD to thrice daily...

They'd love to increase SYD, but slots have been an issue. I expect that to be rapidly up-gauged.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 2):
If you had a viable non-stop Australia - Europe fleet that could overfly the intermediate hubs like Dubai, you'd see the likes of EK retrenching significantly from the land down under.

Not really. There is a reason EK is CASM obsessed. Direct overflights will pull the most premium RASM. But they are always going to have a high CASM on that long of a run. No avoiding it.  Sad

What will keep EK alive is the fact that direct Australia to Europe can only be supported to a tiny number of city pairs. Thus the airlines will need to hub somewhere (a la jet in Brussels). Yes SYD and MEL to LHR is an obvious one. But other than that... we're talking at most 8 more city pairs.

What EK needs to do is continue filling out there route map and getting DXB to a "rolling hub" status. With enough flights per day to LHR, LGW, MAN, BOM, JNB, SYD, and NAY, they can get quite an effective hub going.

Yes, some countries are going to 'opt out' from various airlines hubs. That will hurt them in the long run. The reality is the mid-east hubs started off as a "LHR east" due to the limited slots and have since grown into something much more.

Yes EK will grow a lot on the kangaroo routes. But they will also grow on India to Europe/US and China to Africa. The last is pending a new bilateral that is under negotiation. Think of all the Chinese cities that are screaming for better conections: CTU, CKG, NKG, and probably six more that I've overlooked at being ready for faster connections. Not to mention the WSJ journal article on the absurd lack of seats between India and China.

I don't expect the EK and India to stop being their #1 and #2 destination any time soon. I do expect a lot of a.net threads on EK through!  Wink

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
behramjee
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:16 pm

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
.What is the nature of the bulk of the traffic from Australia on EK.Is most of it bound for Europe (

EK's Australia bound traffic comes in bulk from :

1. LHR/LGW
2. MAN
3. ATH
4. BEY
 
ikramerica
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:37 pm

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 2):
Not if the Canadian government has anything to do with it. Witness the latest air services agreement signed between Canada and Singapore and read up on EK's success getting into Canadian markets so far (just YYZ). There is a concerted effort to restrict the ability of carriers such as EK and SQ from doing in Canada exactly what they're doing in Australia

Yep. Countries will not stand by and watch EK destroy their local carriers. Even Australia will slow down EK's growth if it is seen to damage QF in the long run. Right now, QF is buying planes and seems fine. But we'll see what the future brings. EK's expansion plan relies on the world laying down and allowing them to dominate. History doesn't favor this plan...
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kaitak
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:09 pm

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 4):
EK's Australia bound traffic comes in bulk from :

1. LHR/LGW
2. MAN
3. ATH
4. BEY

They'd be doing even better if they had a direct link to DUB ... now EY flies to DUB, so they're taking that business, with EY's n/s to SYD. EY's LF on DUB is over the 80% mark and you can be pretty sure they're not all getting off at AUH.

Incidentally, they're a very interesting article in this month's Aircraft Illustrated (just out today) on EK, including an interview with Tim Clark.
 
jfk777
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:23 pm

Where EK gets to Qantas and BA is the non-London regional cities traffic they can carry directly to Australia over Dubai. With all those flights to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Manchester, Birmingham, Dublin and others Emirates offers one-stop to any Aussie city.
 
alangirvan
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:04 am

Any chance that EK will start Adelaide when they have enough planes? Even a one-stop through either SIN or BKK. (ADL does not have non stops to BKK by any other carrier.) If the flight did a trans Tasman sector as well - ADL-AKL, it would give EK a bit of extra pocket money, and passengers would get a wide body plane for the trip.
 
DavidByrne
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:18 am

Any hints of further expansion to NZ above the 3x daily DXB-AKL and 1x daily DXB-CHC? I tried to book on EK from AKL-MEL for about a week/ten day's time, and only Business Class seats were available. Is this typical?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
AA7295
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
Yep. Countries will not stand by and watch EK destroy their local carriers. Even Australia will slow down EK's growth if it is seen to damage QF in the long run. Right now, QF is buying planes and seems fine. But we'll see what the future brings. EK's expansion plan relies on the world laying down and allowing them to dominate. History doesn't favor this plan...

Does the USA have a bilateral with UAE? Will EK & EY flights be restricted to the USA like they are in Canada, or will it be an easy market to enter like Australia.

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
2, Increasing number to JFK

Anyone who would regularly fly Australia - JFK via DXB would be crazy. (With exception to people in PER) It would take so much more time by connecting in SFO or LAX.
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
2, Increasing number to JFK

Most people will pay the extra to go the short way.

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 8):
and passengers would get a wide body plane for the trip.

99 out of 100 people couldnt care what plane it was (widebody and narrowbody that is)

EK's BNE Summer services are booked full and so are some of their winter.

Personally I am not a big fan of EK. By destroying other Airlines they are also destroying thousands of jobs (this is also how I feel about LCC that overtake the market from a legacy carrier such as Ryanair and EI). I think that as soon as DXB oil starts to run out EK will not be able to support its operations as at the moment it gets much cheaper fuel. Carriers such as EY are the same, but they arent as rapid expanding as EK is.
 
AA7295
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 11):
Personally I am not a big fan of EK. By destroying other Airlines they are also destroying thousands of jobs (this is also how I feel about LCC that overtake the market from a legacy carrier such as Ryanair and EI). I think that as soon as DXB oil starts to run out EK will not be able to support its operations as at the moment it gets much cheaper fuel. Carriers such as EY are the same, but they arent as rapid expanding as EK is.

Or as soon as planes can go faster and longer and can bypass DXB...... but that might be 20 years away.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:26 am

Announcement due on 20 Nov.

My guess.

double daily BNE
Triple daily MEL, with one service becoming A380
double daily A380 to SYD, with possible announcement on third frequency.
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 13):
double daily BNE

Will EK eventually send A380's to BNE?
 
Evers
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:43 am

great to see that EK is gonna be coming to BNE 2x Daily. might give me more motivation to get on a flight to DXB sometime :P
 
AA7295
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:51 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 14):
Will EK eventually send A380's to BNE?

Probably not... thats around 500 passengers per flight they'd have to fill up. Might be possible if they stay once daily. But double daily, unlikely.
 
B747forever
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:07 am

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 13):
double daily A380 to SYD, with possible announcement on third frequency.

I really doubt that EK will send 3 A380s to SYD everyday. To much capacity.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
MAH4546
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:20 am

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 10):
Does the USA have a bilateral with UAE? Will EK & EY flights be restricted to the USA like they are in Canada, or will it be an easy market to enter like Australia.

No restrictions at all between the U.S. and U.A.E. They have Open Skies, and carriers from both countries are able to fly an unlimited number of flights and seats between them, not only non-stop, but via third points. So in a case where all three countries have Open Skies (for example, next spring U.S. and U.A.E. will have Open Skies with Spain), then there is virtually unlimited traffic rights via that third point. So, starting next summer, Emirates will have virtually unlimited access to the US-Spain market.
a.
 
pilotdude09
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting QF175 (Thread starter):
Perhaps they want to increase MEL/PER/SYD to thrice daily...

EK is double daily to Perth.

It has been touted that Emirates would be the first airline to operate A380's to Perth but not for another 3 years or so.

So who knows, but not much they can do with Perth.
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anstar
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 17):

I really doubt that EK will send 3 A380s to SYD everyday. To much capacity.

Are you serious? It is nearly impossible to get seats on EK out of sydney currently...

it is one route screaming out for a couple of A380's
 
B747forever
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting ANstar (Reply 20):
It is nearly impossible to get seats on EK out of sydney currently...

Is that true??? Then I has not noticed how big the demand is on this route.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
HUYfan
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:54 pm

Adelaide, Cairns and Darwin have gotta be in with a shot?

Regards

Mike
 
threepoint
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:34 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
So, starting next summer, Emirates will have virtually unlimited access to the US-Spain market.

Hence my comment on reply #2. With new equipment and a reputation for exceptional onboard service, EK has most of the ingredients needed to maul the established US & Spanish carriers on these routes.
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sparklehorse12
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:21 pm

There was a lengthy piece on lateline business some months ago about EK's intention to increase frequency to all destinations. Will we see them add OOL as a seasonal service over the southern winter. Gold Coast is brimming with folk from the Emirates states over this time and maybe a response to Air Asia...?

QF is getting a beating at the moment...it really needs to do something and possibly the arrival of new aircraft will give it the opportunity to start to respond to the EK, SQ beating it is getting. My guess is EY and QF will code share before too long.
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:36 pm

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 24):
QF is getting a beating at the moment

From the figures that the Australian Government issues, that airline's market share (international) actually rose I think in the latest month that I viewed.

As a comment, the more diplomatic in the industry would argue that even with the arrival of the middle eastern carriers, the market is dynamic and that the pie does grow for everyone.

A sceptical view is that the pie may or may not be growing as fast as the capacity is being added. Furthermore, yields are under grave threat, especially at the back of the plane where rock bottom unit costs can forgive, by historical growth standards, meagre yields.

Time will tell who survives.

Nevertheless, ambivalent towards them or fervently hate and despise them, it was the right decision to allow airlines of the United Arab Emirates greater frequencies into Australia in the spirit of less protectionism, greater consumer choice and power and greater competition leading to a plethora of positive externalities both in the airline industry and in world economies in general.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
threepoint
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:52 pm

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 25):
leading to a plethora of positive externalities

Leading to a what? Some might argue that widespread & varied foreign influence (from EK in this case) may not be so positive for some air carriers. I can't speculate on financials in the case of QF or other Australian companies, but the counterclaim to your stand is that carriers such as EK and SQ thrive on capacity dumping to the detriment of competing airlines within and outside established alliances.

Quote:
it was the right decision

Time willl tell.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:08 pm

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 22):
Adelaide, Cairns and Darwin have gotta be in with a shot?

Adelaide= Very possibly. Cairns and Darwin= keep dreaming for the next 5 years at least

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 24):
Will we see them add OOL as a seasonal service over the southern winter

Almost definetly. The amount of UAE visitors to the Gold Coast during winter would probably out number the amount to sydney (for a holiday)

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 24):
My guess is EY and QF will code share before too long.

IIRC they do on SYD-AUH. Dissapointing DJ and EY codeshare now. I would have loved to see where a QF FF could go in Europe without going through LHR...
 
antskip
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 11):
I think that as soon as DXB oil starts to run out EK will not be able to support its operations as at the moment it gets much cheaper fuel.

That of course is quite incorrect. Maybe you should have a read of their annual accounts to check their expenditure on fuel. EK's business model neither depends on Dubai oil, nor on cheaper fuel.
 
bill142
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:24 pm

Quoting Antskip (Reply 28):
That of course is quite incorrect. Maybe you should have a read of their annual accounts to check their expenditure on fuel. EK's business model neither depends on Dubai oil, nor on cheaper fuel.

Not to mention that DXB has little oil to begin with.
 
Pellegrine
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:30 pm

Quoting QF175 (Thread starter):
Perhaps they want to increase MEL/PER/SYD to thrice daily...

Maybe they will also announce the much talked about and rumoured 2nd daily nonstop DXB-BNE service with the 77W or 345 (might be a higher priority now that EY is flying to BNE).

What are peoples' views/thoughts? Does anyone think it will be about EK flying A380s to Australia on existing services or about additional flights?

What does the bilateral say? Would it need to be renegotiated for EK to keep expanding in Australia? I find it odd the Australian Government will let Middle East (EK, EY, QR) carriers keep expanding in this region with QF et al. remaining stagnant.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 3):
Not really. There is a reason EK is CASM obsessed. Direct overflights will pull the most premium RASM. But they are always going to have a high CASM on that long of a run. No avoiding it. Sad

Yes and when they run A380s on these routes their CASM will drop lower.
oh boy!!!
 
AKLDELNonstop
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:57 pm

Could they add WLG along with either ADL/DRW/CNS? AFAIK EK dont fly to WLG
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:12 pm

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 26):
Some might argue that widespread & varied foreign influence (from EK in this case) may not be so positive for some air carriers

True, but this leads to a debate between the short-termist view and the long term.

In the short term, economics would dictate that the companies / airlines that are not able to perform will lose and exit the market.

In the long term however, the increased competition could lead to rationalisation of the industry which is needed for all the obvious reasons (governments sending hard-earned money on keeping airlines alive). Competition will lead to higher standards of product and service and will benefit consumers with regards to frequency, product offerings and airfares.

One then argues that the world is more than than just the airline industry. There are other elements at play including potential increased tourism. As aforementioned, some would argue (maybe not so strongly from my view but even so) that the middle eastern carriers have grown the air market. Maybe this is from lower air fares, some from better connectivity that never existed before (Nice, France -> Sydney, Australia one stop via Dubai).

Maybe in the long run the airline industry might even regain its pride in becoming actually profitable - now there's a thought.

But of course, some government and various stakeholders see the entrance of 'successful carriers' (let's ignore their geographical origin) as a major threat and hence close the doors or in most cases, open them extremely slowly.

Governments are unwilling to let airlines fold (Garuda, Alitalia). Workers in the airline industry resist change that benefits the industry economically, yes in some cases to the detriment of their jobs (almost all airlines). These two sticking points among with many others will mean that the airline industry will continue to suffer from economic irrationality and economically irrational government intervention (from the industry's point of view).

It is a pity that this short-term mentality is prevalent but then again, it is hardly surprising given the 21st century world we live in, and it is not unique to the airline industry in any way. The short-term, and some would argue selfish, nature in which we operate without seeing the longer-term bigger picture stunts us in every day life. Alas it is a shame that I probably cannot recuse myself fully from such a mentality either.

But anyway....
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:18 pm

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 26):
EK and SQ thrive on capacity dumping to the detriment of competing airlines within and outside established alliances

Oh and I forgot this point, EK and Singapore Airlines hardly 'thrive' on capacity dumpting. In fact in the respect of Singapore Airlines, capacity has been quite steady into Australia with little increase into the country in very recent times (owing of course to aircraft availability).

I cannot speak for EK but I would suspect that the quality of the travel experience Singapore Airlines offers is one reason why it does 'thrive', just like Southwest Airlines thrives on its low-fare concept and British Airways on its route network.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
anstar
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 24):
QF is getting a beating at the moment...it really needs to do something and possibly the arrival of new aircraft

Well.... JQ are due to receive 15 787-8's from the end of next year and most of them will be delivered within a 12 mon th time frame so I would expect them to step up the competion on some routes....

QF also get 2 x whale jets in the second half of 2008 and 3 more in 2009 which should help with some more international expansion (ie SCL, JNB increase )

And with Premium Economy being introduced I think we will see them being a bit more agressive in the next deacde than the one just gone
 
AA7295
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
No restrictions at all between the U.S. and U.A.E. They have Open Skies, and carriers from both countries are able to fly an unlimited number of flights and seats between them, not only non-stop, but via third points. So in a case where all three countries have Open Skies (for example, next spring U.S. and U.A.E. will have Open Skies with Spain), then there is virtually unlimited traffic rights via that third point. So, starting next summer, Emirates will have virtually unlimited access to the US-Spain market.

The US government really doesn't do anything to nurture and assist the legacy carriers... this is a perfect example.

I'm intrigued, why does the USA (and other countries for that matter) sign open skies pacts with countries such as Singapore (where there is only one airport to fly into) and UAE where there is only 2 commericially viable airports to fly into when the USA has hundreds of viable cities to fly into. The US is the one who has the most to lose, so why bother signing it. The US-EU openskies makes sense because there are hundreds of city pair connections possible. Now the Open skies pact risks stealing market share on the US - Spain route... just ridiculous. It's another tool for Emirates to expand into the global realm. Of course I would have no objections if Emirates were growing organically by the funds of their own success, but they are being funded entirely by the Emir of Dubai with virtually limitless capital. Sound fair against the likes of QF, AA, UA, DL, CO, BA which are all private airlines and have to fend for themselves.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 30):

Yes and when they run A380s on these routes their CASM will drop lower.

 checkmark  They won't be able to do SYD-LHR nonstop, and thus for networking and CASM will force the hubs to be very competitive with each other. Its going to be interesting.

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 32):
In the short term, economics would dictate that the companies / airlines that are not able to perform will lose and exit the market.

Exactly. Business is always a process of adapting.

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 32):

Maybe in the long run the airline industry might even regain its pride in becoming actually profitable - now there's a thought.

Its sad how often it isn't run as a business. Offer something that the customer desires at a price the customer is willing to pay for a margin above costs. That it.  Wink

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 33):
I would suspect that the quality of the travel experience Singapore Airlines offers is one reason why it does 'thrive', just like Southwest Airlines thrives on its low-fare concept and British Airways on its route network.

Well said. I'm just quoting you a bunch today. Customers pick the airline for multiple reasons.

It will be interesting to see where EK expands. Now to get them to LAX!

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
threepoint
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:13 am

I agree with your entire post, although I'd slip in a disclaimer that qualifies:

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 35):
AA, UA, DL, CO... which are all private airlines and have to fend for themselves.

...considering that the US taxpayer has heaped upon them some high-profile aid over the past few years.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 37):
...considering that the US taxpayer has heaped upon them some high-profile aid over the past few years.

link?

There was aid after 9/11, but lately? Trust me, they've long ago burned through the 9/11 aid.  Sad

Lightsaber
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threepoint
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:59 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 38):
There was aid after 9/11, but lately?

That's what I was referring to. It wasn't an insignificant amount of money (hence the term heaped) and I'm sure they've long since spent it. My point is that when in a bind, many private companies have not had to fend for themselves.
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MAH4546
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 35):
The US government really doesn't do anything to nurture and assist the legacy carriers... this is a perfect example.

Nor should they feel obligated too. It's a liberal marketplace. In the end, the consumers win. It's too bad more countries aren't so liberal about opening up international travel markets.

[Edited 2007-11-10 18:08:48]
a.
 
AA7295
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 40):
Nor should they feel obligated too. It's a liberal marketplace. In the end, the consumers win. It's too bad more countries aren't so liberal about opening up international travel markets.

I completely agree, but only if all airlines are. It's not as if UAE has paid start-up costs to an airlines looking to serve the needs of the citizens of the UAE. It's injected billions of dollars into an airlines that wants to be the biggest and best... that is not fair.
 
Fly2CHC
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:47 am

I don't really think A380 operating to Australia at some stage over the next few years qualifies as a major pending announcement. After all, this is pretty much expected anyway. My guess is that it will be increasing frequencies by:

1) Adding DXB-BNE non-stop with their 77Ws
2) Adding an additional DXB-SYD non-stop with an evening departure time out of DXB.
3) Possibly adding ADL through SIN, KUL, or BKK.

Quoting AKLDELNonstop (Reply 31):
Could they add WLG along with either ADL/DRW/CNS? AFAIK EK dont fly to WLG

They would love to service WLG, and have in fact exhausted all possibilities from what I understand. The problem is with WLG's runway - it is not long enough for it to take the aircraft EK operate to Australia. The only possibility would be with their A330s, and this would be a waste of one of their Australian slots given the capacity restrictions.
 
antskip
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 35):
they are being funded entirely by the Emir of Dubai with virtually limitless capital

EK has no need of anyone's "limitless capital" - if such a thing ever existed. A cursory look at EK's annual accounts should help those who wish to be informed.
 
AA7295
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting Antskip (Reply 43):
EK has no need of anyone's "limitless capital" - if such a thing ever existed. A cursory look at EK's annual accounts should help those who wish to be informed.

Profitability wise yes. But their profitability does not fund the 55 A380's on order and a potential 100 787/350 order. It is the Emir of Dubai that foots the bill for these aircraft.
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 32):
Maybe in the long run the airline industry might even regain its pride in becoming actually profitable - now there's a thought.

Most first-world countries airlines are profitable, of course except for the US

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 35):
I'm intrigued, why does the USA (and other countries for that matter) sign open skies pacts with countries such as Singapore (where there is only one airport to fly into) and UAE where there is only 2 commericially viable airports to fly into when the USA has hundreds of viable cities to fly into. The US is the one who has the most to lose, so why bother signing it. The US-EU openskies makes sense because there are hundreds of city pair connections possible. Now the Open skies pact risks stealing market share on the US - Spain route... just ridiculous. It's another tool for Emirates to expand into the global realm. Of course I would have no objections if Emirates were growing organically by the funds of their own success, but they are being funded entirely by the Emir of Dubai with virtually limitless capital. Sound fair against the likes of QF, AA, UA, DL, CO, BA which are all private airlines and have to fend for themselves.

They (USA) have so much to lose, and for the airlines that have grown under their own profitability it is in some ways unfair

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 40):
Nor should they feel obligated too

Yes they should, if they keep the legacy carriers strong they provide 100's of thousands of jobs and keep the economy strong

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 44):
But their profitability does not fund the 55 A380's on order and a potential 100 787/350 order. It is the Emir of Dubai that foots the bill for these aircraft.

Yeah, QF has to pay for there A380/787 order (+10billion) while EK just gets that money straight up, this means that they can grow at an incredibly fast pace and still have no debt. Whereas QF would have ordered 100+ 787's and 50 for JQ and probably 50 A380. They would be the best airline in the world if they had that private funding
 
AA7295
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:51 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 45):
They (USA) have so much to lose, and for the airlines that have grown under their own profitability it is in some ways unfair

CO comes to mind. I guess we can add it to the endless list of stupid things the US government does. Hang on, add it to the list of stupid things the US does to their own corporations. Soon the USA will hand over cabotage rights to EK. Utterly ridiculous!
 
threepoint
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 45):
Yes they should, if they keep the legacy carriers strong they provide 100's of thousands of jobs and keep the economy strong

I disagree. The role of government is NOT to prop up private businesses of any sort. The government is there to create and enforce if necessary the rules by which those businesses operate. The targeted taxpayer support undermines the principles of free-market economics. The US has built itself upon the notion of the American Dream, which last time I checked, did not include lining up for free handouts or subsidies. If a business is not fit to adapt and survive for any reason, it will fold and make room for one that can.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 45):
They would be the best airline in the world if they had that private funding

Virtually any airline could be the best with those levels of funding, regardless of its source.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
QF175
Topic Author
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 14):

Will EK eventually send A380's to BNE?

Yes, EK are building a brand new lounge at Brisbane International directly next to our new 2 A380 gates AFAIK, they also have exclusive rights for usage of at least one of these new gates.

EK will send the A380 to BNE eventually (2011 onwards has been mentioned) regardless of how many flights they have. Emirates has opened up alot of new opportunities for Brisbane and will continue to do so and their flights here will continue to be successful.

So as I've said (and yes, this is not taking rights/allocations into consideration), I think we may see:
  • A third daily service to Sydney and Melbourne and Perth.
  • A second daily BNE service, which will be nonstop with the 77W or 345. I am hoping (really hoping) that they extend this flight on to CHC. Brisbane has the second highest number of passengers travelling on trans-Tasman routes behind SYD, so additional capacity and frequency on routes like BNE-CHC-BNE would be welcomed.
  • Adelaide when additional capacity becomes available.

DXB-SIN-CBR-WLG would be very interesting  Smile

Thanks everyone for their thoughts on the matter...

Interesting few weeks ahead.

Cheers
 
DavidByrne
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RE: Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:37 am

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 47):
Soon the USA will hand over cabotage rights to EK. Utterly ridiculous!

Eh? Can you elaborate on that? I'm not aware of the USA handing over cabotage rights to anyone before.
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