Orion737
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Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:47 pm

I am always amazed that often higher management and even executives travel in Y class or on LCCs as a cost saving measure yet lower management and middle management book expensive C tickets.
 
BigOrange
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:59 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
I am always amazed that often higher management and even executives travel in Y class or on LCCs as a cost saving measure yet lower management and middle management book expensive C tickets

That's because higher management look at the company's bottom line, whereas lower and middle management think because their title is VP then they should be entitled to C class.
 
extspotter
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:08 pm

My dad (who flies alot for work) listens to my opinions on who to fly and the reasons behind them (thank you everyone on A.net!). It was reinforced by his last trip (to Milan) where I told him that the best way would probably be U2 from BRS as even though it is an LCC, the service is reasonable and the crews are usually excellent - plus the airport is only 1hr 20mins from where we live. Going against this, he lumped for AZ in C from LHR. You can guess what he told me on the way back: LHR is too far away, it is a complete mess, AZ is a complete shambles (the cabin crew stayed behind the curtain in the galley the entire time even though the flight was at 10 am), the plane was dirty and the flight delayed for 2 hours. I thought to myself "Either AZ was on an off day or it really is that bad". Anywho I have booked us all on a trip to the channel islands in december. EXT - GCI - JER (BE) JER - GCI - LGW (Aurigny) LGW - BRS - PLH (WOW). It was more expensive and takes much much longer, but this way I get to bring my years total number of flights to 11.

[Edited 2007-11-09 13:09:14]
AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
 
Orion737
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:53 pm

Im appalled by the 'wastage' of some businessmen, particularly those who work in the public sector or providing a service. They should be prepared to travel on the cheapest available fare, as their superiors seem more than willing to do. If a company Executive can travel Y class then why cant a lowly salesmen or junior management?
 
Sean-SAN-
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:13 pm

First, most companies get 40-50% the listed business class fare. Second, sitting in Y, especially on a regular basis has a high toll on productivity and employee satisfaction that significantly outweighs any cost savings between Y and C. Any exec flying in Y is probably flying domestically, I've never seen any executive in my experience fly Y internationally.
 
Orion737
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:28 pm

Many of our politicians and top businessmen do travel in Y on short haul routes as a way of demonstrating that they take their expenses seriously and the impact they can have on the consumer. I have upmost admiration for such people and they are setting an example that their lesser employees should take note of.
 
dlphoenix
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 4):
I've never seen any executive in my experience fly Y internationally.

Some very respectable companies (e.g. Cisco) won't pay C class for anybody regardless of the duration of thr flight while others (most financial institutes included) will pay C on international trips for every employee.
It's all about corporate culture and management phillosophy.

DT
 
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Coal
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:33 pm

Interesting topic. On that I wanted to compare the corporate rate C class fares on the A380 vs. the 744 (on SQ). I was quoted roughly SGD3,700 for SIN-MEL (773) and SYD-SIN (744) (MEL-SYD was separate) and I was quoted SGD4,400 for SIN-MEL (744) and SYD-SIN (A380), which is only a SGD700 premium, and, IMHO, still quite cheap to fly the A380!

FYI, I am in a so-called "graduate program," ie. a fast-track to management. I'm 23yo.

Cheers
Coal
Nxt Flts: MI RGN-SIN | SQ SIN-RGN-SIN | CX SIN-HKG-PVG | SQ PVG-SIN
 
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Coal
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:37 pm

Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 6):
Some very respectable companies (e.g. Cisco) won't pay C class for anybody regardless of the duration of thr flight while others (most financial institutes included) will pay C on international trips for every employee.
It's all about corporate culture and management phillosophy.

DT

Fair enough, but if the Asia CEO/CFO based in HGK/SIN had an early morning meeting in Silicon Valley, how do you think that person will perform after +15hrs on a plane in Y?

Thanks for the insider, though. I will not be applying to Cisco any time soon.

Cheers
Coal
Nxt Flts: MI RGN-SIN | SQ SIN-RGN-SIN | CX SIN-HKG-PVG | SQ PVG-SIN
 
Orion737
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:44 pm

Yeah and then these 'companies' can pay huge expenses for luxury suites in F class and the consumers of their products and services pay the price. Its becoming more unacceptable and expenses are being monitored now in lots of UK companies.
 
steve6666
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:51 pm

Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 6):
Some very respectable companies (e.g. Cisco) won't pay C class for anybody

A few years ago, I did some consulting for Cisco, and I know that's not true in practice - even though I also know the CEO makes a big thing of flying in coach (fool). There are ways around policies.

To be honest, if employees taking Y class rather than C or J is the difference between profitability and loss making (or makes a significant difference to profitability) for a multinational, then the business model has some fundamental flaws.

Equally, if the value of employees marginal lost productivity does not exceed the difference in C/J and Y class fares, you've got to wonder whether your job is worthwhile.
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georgebush
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:59 pm

I loved looking up Mileage Plus members and checking out their recent trips and what fares they were ticketed in. John Kerry, for example, only flew full fare F (on the Senate travel spending allowance). Whereas Dick Lugar (IN R.) only flew the cheapest available fare, on the SAME spending budget.
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Orion737
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:04 pm

The days of suites in hotel rooms, first class flights, extravagant room service and 'girls' all being added to business 'expenses' is over, thank goodness for the public. Many companies here are public companies, civil servants getting paid out of the public purse too.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
I am always amazed that often higher management and even executives travel in Y class

The lower/middle management often travel much more than the senior management and it is one of the few perks. Senior management often get their benefits in other ways.
I worked for a company based in Louisville CO, here in Sydney, Australia the team often flew domestically and always in Y.
Almost all the international travel was between SYD & DEN 16-17 hours + stops, almost always with meetings soon after arrival. Travel in C was a nice touch but it didn't last. Why, because the folks in the US abused the system and flew F when going to Phoenix or Dallas etc so there was a corporate decision that there be no F or C travel whatever the distance.
If you think I am picking on our American friends I am not, travelling to MEL we had the use of a car and driver from the airport to the office for the same price as a cab,often less($45), it was nice to be met and not have to queue for a taxi.. but hell the local guys spoiled that as well by using the same fixed price service to cross town when a $10 cab ride would have done the trick.
Another company had a rule on flights over 8 hrs,HQ dictated 10+ but that meant SIN & HKG were Y so local management fought that one, if company training etc then Y, If for customer meetings then C. made sense to me.

Cheers
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futurecaptain
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 1):
That's because higher management look at the company's bottom line, whereas lower and middle management think because their title is VP then they should be entitled to C class.

But then also the CEO probably has a good job, retirement plan, ect and some are just waiting to leave. Those VP's and middle men may not have such good company benefits and be more willing to switch from company A to company B because company B pays for first class travel and company A will only put them in Y.
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Flighty
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:28 pm

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 4):
Second, sitting in Y, especially on a regular basis has a high toll on productivity and employee satisfaction that significantly outweighs any cost savings between Y

Bingo. I have known people who make $40,000 who easily rack up $100,000 in C-class fares per year.

Why doesn't the company put them in coach? Because they would get tired of the road and quit. Then the company is screwed.

Why not just pay the employee a higher salary? Then they would have to pay EVERYBODY in their org more money. That's a big loser.

So middle grade employees generally always travel in C! Otherwise, they just start hating their job and quit. With CEOs, they won't quit because of their thrilling job and huge salary, most likely. So of course they can travel in Y, and stay happy. It's unfair to suggest that peons would be equally happy.
 
Orion737
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:35 pm

What else to make them 'comfortable' a top suite in the hotel, hot and cold running call girlies etc, all being added to expense claims under 'sundries' junior management should be made to travel on ther cheapest available fare to benefit their company, fellow employees, and their customers, thats us, the public!
 
Boston92
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 6):

But I am almost certain that a company like Cisco pays for full fare Y which would make it free and easy for the travelers to upgrade on most airlines.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:39 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 3):
They should be prepared to travel on the cheapest available fare, as their superiors seem more than willing to do. If a company Executive can travel Y class then why cant a lowly salesmen or junior management?

In certain cases, and dependant upon fare type availability, you'll find that travelling in the C-class cabin will in fact actaully be less expensive than travelling in the Y-class cabin. The reason for this, is that airlines often offer "restricted" business class fares with limited flexibility (fee to change date/time/route eyc.) but entitle the holder of the ticket to all the perks of C-class, ie separate cabin, lounge access etc etc.

On the other hand a fully flexible, all singing all dancing, Y-class ticket will be more expensive but can be changed, transferred to another carrier, fully refunded etc without any additional costs or penalties. Ultimately, the holders of such documents were referred to as SFU (Suitable for Upgrade) as far as any carrier I worked for in the past anyway, and as such may very well end up sitting in C-class in order to facilitate any overbooking "down the back".

Just because you're seat is in C, doesn't mean that you've paid the most money.

Edit for typo.

[Edited 2007-11-09 15:40:14]
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 3):
If a company Executive can travel Y class then why cant a lowly salesmen or junior management?

Because this "lowly salesman" is expected

a) to work on the plane and
b) be prepared to go to meetings straight off the plane.

No way can I achieve either on a 5, 6, 11 hour (sometime much longer - try NCE-FRA-NRT-HNL as a commute !) trip that inevitably involves a connection. It is a practical necessity to have the space and amenities to work and sleep on the plane. This is not just me ego-tripping, either - ask anyone who travels regularly for work.

Sounds to me like someone is a little bitter - get yourself a job that involves travel, and tell me how much fun you have down the back.
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cygnuschicago
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:00 am

My Firm has a policy of travel in C if the flight is four hours or more, and it is pure business travel, i.e., training, etc, doesn't count. Of course, often on shorter flights I may be on a Y up, and end up in C all the same. However, I don't really see the benefit of paying for C on short flights. Grab an exit row seat, and I always have enough room to get work done.
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
LeonB1985
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:10 am

Nobody has even mentioned all the firms that either charter, fractionally own, or operate their own private jets!  Wink
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qfflyer
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:06 am

This year I have done 3 trips SYD-LHR-CDG-NTE, 2 x in Y, 1 x in J.
The first 2 trips I arrived back in SYD wrecked and could not operate fully for about 2 weeks afterwards. When I travelled J, I arrived into SYD early in the morning and was able to do a full days work, and had no effects after that.
It is all very well to say have a few days off to recover or have a comfortable hotel, but when work is piling up in the office, the ability to go straight to work is very important.

Cheers
 
Nimish
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 6):
Some very respectable companies (e.g. Cisco) won't pay C class for anybody regardless of the duration of thr flight while others (most financial institutes included) will pay C on international trips for every employee.
It's all about corporate culture and management phillosophy.

It's not just Cisco - even Google - the darling of the stock markets - has everyone flying in Y (except of course if you manage to board the corporate jets  Smile)
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blueflyer
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:09 am

Quoting LeonB1985 (Reply 21):
Nobody has even mentioned all the firms that either charter, fractionally own, or operate their own private jets!

Sshhhhh I don't think my employer wants always-fly-in-coach Cisco to know us lowly contractors fly the company plane to meetings in San Jose, at Cisco's expense.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
787kq
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:24 am

This thread is crap.

Most companies have corporate travel policies that govern travel. In instances where business class is available for the lowly salesmen, it is usually much more available for the overlords. If you can name companies where this policy is the other way, name it.

And there is clearly a difference between flying a 2 hour domestic flight and an overseas flight to India. So don't tell me that the head honchos fly in Y domestic and the lowly in C to India is an issue. In that case I am sure the policy to fly in C depends on the kind of flight (length or whether international or not).
 
PresRDC
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:38 pm

Our policy (Fortune 50 industrlai conglomerate with several aerospace subsidiaries) flies everyone in C on international flights over 2500 miles. Our sales guys and many of our execs are on the road several days per week. It's not uncommon for some of our people to be in one continent in the beginning of the week, home for the middle of the week and in another continent for the end of the week. Such a schedule would not be possible unless they were in C. The value of our deals are such that the cost of C class is really minimal, plus we have discount deals with several airlines, so the cost is a lot less than full fare.

Personally, I won't work for an established company that doesn't fly its people in C on longhaul flights.
 
thediplomat
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:03 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 19):
get yourself a job that involves travel, and tell me how much fun you have down the back.

Fully agree - Corporate travel isnt sexy, its part of life. I am fortunate to work for a company with a sensible business travel policy, based on duration of flight, and time of flight departure. As someone who flys too much, a business class seat gives me flexibility, and space. It is also less tiring. Next week, I have five flights, plus a day job inbetween. A higher class of travel (and a higher tier of FFP) results in met of flights in PRG and transited, and even in CDG (wonders shall never cease) = home to mrs bestwestern.

I also travel FR when it makes sense. x3 rtn this year.

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 25):
This thread is crap.

Orion has been on like this for years. Plus ca change.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting TheDiplomat (Reply 27):
home to mrs bestwestern.

Does Mr. Bestwestern know about this ? You dog, you  Smile
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
A340600
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:10 am

Another day, another thread from Mr Daily Mail and his broad statements.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 9):
Yeah and then these 'companies' can pay huge expenses for luxury suites in F class and the consumers of their products and services pay the price. Its becoming more unacceptable and expenses are being monitored now in lots of UK companies.

Facts?

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 16):
What else to make them 'comfortable' a top suite in the hotel, hot and cold running call girlies etc, all being added to expense claims under 'sundries' junior management should be made to travel on ther cheapest available fare to benefit their company, fellow employees, and their customers, thats us, the public!

Fact? Most business travellers have little time to enjoy any of the perks as a leisure traveller would. Besides if it's a private company it's got sod all to do with you anyway how much they choose to spend on their employees out of their profit.

The threadstarter here clearly has no idea of business travel or the markets he's stroking huge brushstrokes of mis-judgement over. Many of my family are business travellers and I will tell you from even being with them on occasions that they don't go out dancing all the time with attractive models and drink champagne 24/7. Take a reality pill.

The idea of Business class is seamless work and rest where needed. Most companies will prefer not to have their employees cross the atlantic in economy and go straight to a meeting on arrival, J provides the employee with the facilities to both work and rest thus improving the efficiency and productivity of the company.
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
caspritz78
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RE: Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class

Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:24 am

Most companies I know have a rule concerning how long a flight is. If it is below 4 hours you fly Y if it is above you get C. I think it is nothing wrong for management to fly on long flights in C since they normally have a meeting right after they arrival. Many also need some space and privacy!!! to work. So C is the best option. I also want to add that many of the business travelers have no time to waste in airline lounges. They want to check in as late as possible and board the plane right away.

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